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IS-3-II/ST-II (Super Test)

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On 12/29/2019 at 10:13 AM, hazzgar said:

I'd argue the prem is OP as shit. 

As a barely average player, I agree. I've heard a lot of better players argue it isn't though. Maybe it doesn't have what they're looking for.

But for the average player it by far the best T8 heavy IMO.  (disclaimer: I don't have the IS-3a to compare)

 

Edited by crashumbc
typos

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6 hours ago, crashumbc said:

As a barely average player, I agree. I've heard a lot of better players argue it isn't though. Maybe it doesn't have what they're looking for.

But for the average player it by far the best T8 heavy IMO.  (disclaimer: I don't have the IS-3a to compare)

 

Some top players overvalue being able to control the tanks performance so when the tank is a bit rng dependant but still boosts your WR by a ton they undervalue it. Especially when it boosts their WR less than it boosts it for green and blues even though the boost is still significant. I remember how many people defended the defender (LOL) even right after release and pre pen creep

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7 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Some top players overvalue being able to control the tanks performance so when the tank is a bit rng dependant but still boosts your WR by a ton they undervalue it. Especially when it boosts their WR less than it boosts it for green and blues even though the boost is still significant. I remember how many people defended the defender (LOL) even right after release and pre pen creep

Ditto with comfort and 703 is not exactly comfortable to play

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2 hours ago, Wanderjar said:

I play it basically like a double-barreled IS 6. Seems to work out pretty well I think. Armor is about as reliable these days

Armor on that thing is good for the firepower it has. Good turret, not too big weakspots, good sides. Remember when everyone claimed Liberte has good armor? This has way better armor. What other T8 Heavy tanks have better armor? Vk1001p, Defender, Chrystler (but less usable due to rear turret and weak sides) and 112.

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yeah I could see this as a 112 with 2 guns. pretty similar playstyles with the is6 as well. the forehead is a bit weak but I dont think i would call it OP at all. it IS quite a good tank though

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1 hour ago, Wanderjar said:

yeah I could see this as a 112 with 2 guns. pretty similar playstyles with the is6 as well. the forehead is a bit weak but I dont think i would call it OP at all. it IS quite a good tank though

Wait what? Why wouldn't you call it op? 112 has great armor. If you give it 2 guns with great pen it's very strong. I get that purples want consistency and this is a tank that will fluctuate between 1200 and 6000 dmg games but for most.

It doesn't get punished in DPM for being a 2 shot autoloader that can do 750 dmg. It has higher DPM than most t8 heavies actually. It has above average penetration. Fast shell at 1150 mps where most heavies in tier hoover in the 800-1000 area. 

Yeah final acc is bad but it has AMAZEBALLS dispersion. FFs 0.12/0.12/0.06 !!! That's HALF of Defender. HALF of 50prot, HALF of 112 and MORE THAN HALF of 1001p. So yeah the aimtime is long but the soft stats rule. 

For mobility - yeah the PW is bad at 12 but it has better resistances than the defender by 20-30%. 

 

So how a tank with good armor, small weakspots on the turret, that can blast tanks for 750 or work as an autoreloader, with IS3 like soft stats, fast shells, good DPM, that isn't super slow isn't OP? 

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I wouldn't call the 112 OP either but it is a very solid tank, same with the IS3.

Yeah, the 703s soft stats just make it capable of IS3-like BS snapshots but it has almost exactly the same DPM as a 112 AND a similar armor layout/thickness. Yeah the disp soft stats are good but it pays for it with 3 fucking seconds of aimtime and 8kph slower than a 112 With worse P/W with almost the same terrain soft stats as the 112. 

With the exceptions of the 750 double alpha strike (which you pay for by being useless for the next 20~ seconds and tanking your DPM btw) and the extra pen its damn near the same tank except Rasha. literally the only thing the 703 has better is the 30 extra pen on the standard ammo which makes it more comfortable to play and helps make the 5deg depression palatable 

So by that logic you would call the 112 OP as well? Its a good tank certainly. If you want to argue if its more OP or less than an IS3A thats a different issue


https://tanks.gg/tank/703-ii-122/stats?cs=112
https://tanks.gg/tank/703-ii-122/stats?cs=is-3a

9 hours ago, hazzgar said:

So how a tank with good armor, small weakspots on the turret, that can blast tanks for 750 or work as an autoreloader, with IS3 like soft stats, fast shells, good DPM, that isn't super slow isn't OP? 

 

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Take the IS-3A, give it 50mm more frontal armour, godlike bloom, 

9 hours ago, Wanderjar said:

I wouldn't call the 112 OP either but it is a very solid tank, same with the IS3.

Yeah, the 703s soft stats just make it capable of IS3-like BS snapshots but it has almost exactly the same DPM as a 112 AND a similar armor layout/thickness. Yeah the disp soft stats are good but it pays for it with 3 fucking seconds of aimtime and 8kph slower than a 112 With worse P/W with almost the same terrain soft stats as the 112. 

With the exceptions of the 750 double alpha strike (which you pay for by being useless for the next 20~ seconds and tanking your DPM btw) and the extra pen its damn near the same tank except Rasha. literally the only thing the 703 has better is the 30 extra pen on the standard ammo which makes it more comfortable to play and helps make the 5deg depression palatable 

So by that logic you would call the 112 OP as well? Its a good tank certainly. If you want to argue if its more OP or less than an IS3A thats a different issue


https://tanks.gg/tank/703-ii-122/stats?cs=112
https://tanks.gg/tank/703-ii-122/stats?cs=is-3a

 

270 gold pen is a huge leap from 250 as 250 is kind of the magic number for armoured tier 8 these days - anything below 250 pen will have problems, 250 is RNG, anything above 250 will be more or less reliable. For tier 9s its somewhere in the 290-300 range and 330 for 10s.

So you get a 112 that has a semi-autoloader, good bloom, and actually effective pen, at the cost of some speed - still faster than most heavies in tier. Which is 100% OP in my book. The only reason no one is making a fuss about it is because tier 8 has been fucked forever anyway, and the 703 as strong as it is won't replace the Defender, 50TP, Renegade/75TS, Chrysler in their respective roles.

I also doubt that the 703 will be very common as its armour scheme is not retarded enough for bads and it's uncomfortable enough with the aimtime and accuracy and dual gun that most unis would just take the Renegade over it even if the 703 is better for WR, etc. There is also a limited amount of things it can do against lategame TD spam which makes it less attractive for pubbing. 

The 703 might well be the strongest tier 8 heavy atm, but I'd just take the Renegay since I play this game for fun and comfort > winning (and the Renegay isnt even bad for winning).

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The armor on that prem is ridiculous at mid distance, just had a battle against it in my IS3A and in the open he angled it 45 degrees and it was unpennable. It's a bullshit tank as much as the defender was. It has no drawbacks. 

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13 minutes ago, Wanderjar said:

well, its not a pike nose so yeah that makes a lot of sense? why would it be easier to pen at 45?

It's just that I shot everything lower plate, drivewheel etc not enough pen for any part. And it moves as a fast heavy and it can snap with the best of them. It needs a drawback. 

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At 45 degrees out in the open you should be penning through the front tracks every time, and his side every time if you avoid the spaced armor. 

tank.jpg

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21 hours ago, Wanderjar said:

I wouldn't call the 112 OP either but it is a very solid tank, same with the IS3.

but we are not talking about 112. We are talking about a 112 with 2 guns that can do 780 dmg, with half of the dispersion and good pen. 

 

21 hours ago, Wanderjar said:

Yeah, the 703s soft stats just make it capable of IS3-like BS snapshots but it has almost exactly the same DPM as a 112 AND a similar armor layout/thickness. Yeah the disp soft stats are good but it pays for it with 3 fucking seconds of aimtime and 8kph slower than a 112 With worse P/W with almost the same terrain soft stats as the 112. 

780 alpha and good pen. Also aimtime is less important when you have godlike bloom. IS3 BL9 is great for a reason. 

 

21 hours ago, Wanderjar said:

With the exceptions of the 750 double alpha strike (which you pay for by being useless for the next 20~ seconds and tanking your DPM btw) and the extra pen its damn near the same tank except Rasha. literally the only thing the 703 has better is the 30 extra pen on the standard ammo which makes it more comfortable to play and helps make the 5deg depression palatable 

No. With the exception of 780 alpha, more pen and better bloom it's near the same tank. Also you get 780 alpha or AUTORELOADER. And remember you have the option to fire 2 shots. You are not forced. Which means you are flexible. Most high alpha tanks don't have flexibility and always have to fire and wait for long reloads. 703 doesn't. It can be either a decent dpm 390 alpha tank, a 390 alpha autoreloader or a 780 alpha monster. Remember it's 780 alpha in a tier where there are 2 TD's with that alpha. Both have no armor or hp. 

 

21 hours ago, Wanderjar said:

So by that logic you would call the 112 OP as well? Its a good tank certainly. If you want to argue if its more OP or less than an IS3A thats a different issue

No I don't. It's not that logic. A henessey venom without it's engine is just a wide body Lotus. One car goes 400kph. The other doesn't. FFS mate everyone says Renegade is a good tank because it has an amazing gun on a really shit platform. Ie. The argument is an amazing gun can make a bad platform good. So how come an amazing gun can't make a good platform amazing? Stop being one of those guys who is afraid to call op shit op shit because it feels bad. The tank is easy to play. It produces monster games on a regular basis. Imagine someone gave RHM more speed and 112 armor for the cost of a few s of reload. Everyone would cry it would be getting overbuffed. 

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Personally, I like the 703.  I don't have one, but I like them.  I like killing them - all the time.  I like the clowns driving them.  I look forward to killing these new ones on reload as well.  

It's annoying to get double barrel blasted, but actually it's kinda rare. 

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2 hours ago, Kymrel said:

At 45 degrees out in the open you should be penning through the front tracks every time, and his side every time if you avoid the spaced armor. 

tank.jpg

That's 45? He might have had more of his front then. And Tanks GG is not 100% right about pens, when on the vk7201 says 0.0% on the side armor I got penned. 



Nontheless it's a broken tank. IS3 might have the ridiculous autoreloader but it's very slow with mediocre armor and gun handling of a KV2. 
 

 

New Bitmap Image.jpg

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@kariverson the tanks.gg model for the VK72 has been incorrect for along while now, you have to roll back to like update 1.0 to get the correct model 

also the model for the 703 is obviously incorrect/incomplete. this is a more correct model: https://armor.wotinspector.com/?targetVehicleId=44289,63746,56323,56836&mode=xray.textures&platform=pc

i Also find it very amusing that anyone would think the 703 is anything but broken in anyway, shows that all these years of powercreep has gotten to peoples heads. 

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2 hours ago, j_galt said:

Personally, I like the 703.  I don't have one, but I like them.  I like killing them - all the time.  I like the clowns driving them.  I look forward to killing these new ones on reload as well.  

It's annoying to get double barrel blasted, but actually it's kinda rare. 

Bad players are killable in anything. Doesn't mean a tank is weak. 

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I'm amused by all the hand-wringing over stuff that cannot be influenced and nostalgia over a game that really, no longer exists.

 

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Tried a few games in my friend's account.

The barrel switch is jarring. Somewhat negates the bloom advantage.

780 alpha is a lie, don't use linked fire unless on soft targets in the open.

Armour profile is strong and retarded for frontal poking due to angling. Takes a lot of arty damage due to 20mm deck. Tank is not as small as the IS-3 and turret sides are very vulnerable. Height also makes -5 gun depression problematic on some maps.

Gun is better than I expected, but TBH I would much prefer the IS-3 gun without an autoloader on the same platform. The bloom is great BUT you switch between barrels. Two shots is great BUT you have a 5s interclip. Treat it like a derpy conventional tank unless people overcommit and you can punish them. This is not a true autoloader like the 3A is, but unlike the 3A it is not actually reliant on the autoloader.

I would not play this tank for fun as the arty focus + derpiness makes this stressful to run pubs in. Still OP af and better than the IS-3A.

 

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19 hours ago, j_galt said:

I'm amused by all the hand-wringing over stuff that cannot be influenced and nostalgia over a game that really, no longer exists.

 

Using your logic we should scramble this whole section of the forum

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On 1/1/2020 at 3:17 PM, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

i Also find it very amusing that anyone would think the 703 is anything but broken in anyway, shows that all these years of powercreep has gotten to peoples heads. 

Point taken

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