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Sandbox: HE Shells "Rebalancing"

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Sandbox is up for HE shell testing. Here is what's changed in detail:

 

Quote

Commanders!

The next iteration of shell rebalancing tests is just around the corner, and World of Tanks needs your help again! This time you have the opportunity to try out fundamental changes in the mechanics of dealing damage with HE shells. The testing will again be open to all tank commanders and will be held on the Sandbox server—join it and give us your feedback!

Why Rebalance HE Shells?

In the two previous iterations of Sandbox, we tested changes in the mechanics of the two main types of shells in our game—standard and special. We reworked the parameters of standard shells, after which the demand for special ones also changed. The main goal of these changes during the previous Sandbox testing was to make standard shells more popular than special ones, and to slightly reduce the effectiveness of special rounds.

These changes worked well, and now we are ready to take the next step towards the complete rebalancing of shells in World of Tanks, we need to rework HE shells. We couldn't leave them unattended, because such significant changes in the mechanics of standard and special shells would inevitably affect High-Explosive ones, too.

Moving Forward

Changes from previous Sandbox iterations (the revision of the standard shells and changes in the number of hit points for all vehicles in the game) worked well, and they will also be included in the next iteration, in which you can try out the new changes.

 

We're currently testing the mechanics for dealing damage with HE shells only for regular tanks. This does not apply to SPG rounds or HESH. We will test them in a separate iteration, but only if we receive positive results from the current Sandbox tests.

The mechanics of dealing damage with HE shells are perhaps the most complicated aspect of our game to understand. It consists of a large number of stages and takes into account numerous parameters for the calculation. Let’s take a closer look.

  1. The HE shell hits the armor, and the armor penetration is calculated depending on whether the armor is penetrated or not.
  2. If the armor is penetrated, damage from the full nominal damage is calculated.
  3. If the armor is not penetrated, damage is also calculated, but only from half the value of the nominal damage.
  4. Next, the damage application point is calculated. Simply put, a weak spot is chosen in the radius of the sphere where the damage is done.
  5. The value of half the nominal damage is reduced proportionally to the armor thickness and other factors at the damage application point.
  6. In addition, the damage calculation is affected by whether a Spall Liner is mounted or not.
  7. After all these calculations, we arrive at the total damage value.

But when we talk about calculations of this mechanic, most of the current aspects are outdated and don't match the current realities of the game. This doesn't allow us to fine-tune the effectiveness of HE shells for specific guns, and that’s exactly the aspect we want to change.

What Are the Current Issues With HE Shells?

Our players rarely use High-Explosive shells as standard ammo for reliably dealing damage. This mainly happens when playing on vehicles with calibers of 150 mm and above. For lower and medium ones, HE shells are often used to:

  • Reset the base capture progress
  • Finish off an enemy low on HP
  • Deal damage in a situation where it's impossible with other shell types

On the contrary, the effectiveness of HE shells on medium and small calibers is very low, and the use of HE rounds in the above situations doesn't guarantee a result. At the same time, HE rounds can cause huge damage to weakly armored vehicles, and very often this happens by accident, when you shoot without carefully targeting your enemy’s weak spots. The amount of damage is always different, and even an experienced player cannot predict it in each specific case.

Given all of the above, the main goal of the changes for us is to balance the effectiveness of High-Explosive shells for all guns and calibers existing in our game. We want to reduce the amount of total and alpha damage on large calibers from 150 mm and above, and to improve the performance of HE shells on lower and medium calibers in specific situations. How will we achieve this? Let’s take a closer look.

1. High-Explosive Shells Armor Penetration Removal

Yes, that’s right—we want to completely remove the ability to penetrate armor with HE shells. If the tests are successful, then HE rounds will no longer have an “Armor Penetration” parameter. Initially, High-Explosive shells had this characteristic to simulate HE damage mechanics in a more realistic way, but as stated above, HE shells in World of Tanks are almost never used for reliably dealing damage. Even with a skillful aim, penetrating and inflicting huge damage is not guaranteed. We want to avoid a huge spread in the final value of damage, when players cannot predict whether they will inflict a nominal value damage, a third of it or no damage at all.

2. Changing the Mechanics of Damage Distribution Over the Splash Radius

If an HE round didn't penetrate the armor, then the system started calculations according to the damage formula from 0.5 in the center to 0.05 at the edge of the splash. Put simply, when a High-Explosive shell doesn't penetrate armor in the current gameplay, half of the shell’s nominal damage is immediately deducted, and then the damage decreases depending on the distance to the center of the explosion. With the new mechanics, HE shells don't penetrate armor at all, which means that this method of calculation is no longer relevant. After the rebalance, the damage will be distributed over the splash radius, varying from 1 in the center to 0.1 at the edge. The full nominal damage of a HE shell will be used for calculation.

3. Nominal Damage Reduction

Given the above, such a high nominal damage inflicted by HE shells is no longer needed, and we'll significantly reduce it depending on the caliber of the gun.

The proportion of damage and the specific caliber will also change. Previously, the base damage for the highest calibers (150 mm and above) was truly great. Now the damage gain with increasing calibers will be smaller and more consistent.

Below is a table comparing old and new damage values for the main calibers in the game (parameters may vary depending on the individual tank or shell settings).

Caliber Old values New values
76 mm 156–260 55–95
90 mm 270–370 95–115
105 mm 360–510 130–180
120 mm 440-530 180-190
122 mm 450-560 180-190
130 mm 580–750 210–270
150 mm 890–950 320–330
183 mm 1750 480
 

 

4. Damage Decrease From the Center of the Splash

In the new system, damage is calculated from 1 in the center to 0.1 along the edge. The fundamental difference between the new system and the previous one is that splash becomes less “dense”: even at a small distance from the center of the explosion, the damage is greatly reduced. At the same time, it remains possible to cause low damage at the edge of the splash. The splash effectiveness will be reduced, especially closer to the center. Accordingly, HE rounds will cause lower damage to internal and external modules, as well as crew members.

5. Changing the Tracing Algorithm and the Minimal Damage

Damage dealt will be much more predictable, not only due to the removal of penetration, but also thanks to two other components:

1. Changing the tracing algorithm—finding points for causing damage to various armor groups, modules, and crew members. The current algorithm often "doesn't find" obvious weak spots, and HE shells may not cause any damage at all. The new algorithm "finds" the required points more often and more accurately than the current one. Simply put, the chance to "find" a weak spot in the enemy’s armor is higher and calculated more accurately, but the amount of damage dealt is much lower. The new algorithm is not fine-tuned yet, so it will be adjusted depending on the results of the upcoming testing on the Sandbox server.

2. The ability to inflict minimal damage due to the splash mechanics (more on this below). Damage done in this way will not be high, but in critical situations, it will increase the possibility of causing at least minimal damage (for example, to prevent base capture) to almost 100% (if you hit the armor or the module, thereby damaging it).

Below, under the spoiler, is more detailed information on how the new mechanics will work.

Splash Mechanics

Splash mechanics will include three components:

  • Shrapnel from the shell explosion
  • Spalls on the outer surface of the armor
  • Splash radius

Now more about each of them.

Shrapnel From the Shell Explosion

Shrapnel is formed by the metal jacket of the shell, when the explosion breaks it into separate pieces. They scatter around in a sphere and get stuck in obstacles. After rebalancing, fragments will scatter only to the first obstacle in their way—this is the key difference compared to the shrapnel acting according to the laws of the current mechanics. As a result, shrapnel cannot damage internal modules, except for vehicles with open cabins. Armor damage from this mechanic is absorbed linearly—the thicker the armor, the greater the absorption. For the player, this change means the exclusion of illogical cases of causing damage when, for example, an engine inside the hull catches fire after getting hit in the commander’s hatch.

Spalls on the Outer Surface of the Armor

Armor spalls are formed on the outer surface of the armor during the explosion of a High-Explosive shell. They are scattered on a conditional “cone” perpendicular to the armor. It doesn't matter at what angle the shell hits the armor. Spalls damage the armor and can damage the internal modules and crew members. Like shrapnel, spalls cannot penetrate obstacles. The damage from this mechanic is also absorbed linearly—the thicker the vehicle’s armor, the higher the absorption of spalls.

For most HE shells, all three mechanics work simultaneously, but can be configured differently. For each armor group, each module, and each crew member, damage is calculated for each mechanic (if the mechanics, in principle, can cause damage to a specific object).

Splash Radius

Unlike shrapnel and armor spalls, the splash radius is not shielded by obstacles. In this case, the damage is only reduced. Also, the splash radius doesn’t cause damage to crew members, and the armor absorbs it non-linearly (the thicker the armor, the greater the absorption, but the armor cannot completely absorb the damage from the splash). This is why HE shells will inflict at least minor damage on almost any armor.

What Will Happen to HE Shells After These Changes Take Effect?

  1. HE shells will do less damage on average per shot (up to 66–75% of the previous damage value).
  2. HE shells will do less critical damage to internal and external modules and crew members. It will be impossible to set fire to the engine if you hit the commander’s hatch.
  3. There will be virtually no cases when damage doesn't occur at all when a HE round hits the armor (excluding spaced armor). This will help to improve the “behavior” of HE shells, for example, when preventing base capture or finishing off an enemy with only a few HP remaining.
  4. HE shells will expand their scope of use. Now they will be effective not only at large, but also at small and medium calibers.
  5. Weakly armored vehicles will no longer receive such enormous damage from penetration. They will still take more damage than heavily armored tanks, but not 3 times more.

How Do We See the Use of the Reworked HE Shells?

We want to further increase the impact of situationality in the use of High-Explosive shells. In a nutshell, firing mainly with HE rounds will put you at a disadvantage. Instead, you should use them in the following specific game situations where they will be more useful than before:

  1. Resetting base capture progress. Now the chance to reset the capture is much higher.
  2. Finishing off opponents low on HP.
  3. Immobilizing enemy vehicles. For the reworked HE rounds, the chance of tracking or damaging an external module is higher.

 

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Are they buffing fucking HE spam against bullshit armor? 1 damage modifier at point of impact with that kind of base damage? What is this? World of HE?

oh god, rip tier 5 they're getting minimum 130 average ignore armor shells. KV-1, AT2 etc are toast.

derp guns are now gaining armor penetration characteristics in exchange for the old 1 shot potential...

pz IV H isn't losing AP AFAIK so it will remain kind of broken,

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I wonder what spall liners will do? Will that 130 damage against a type 5 turn into 65 damage instead? Because if so then lol he spam would be such a waste of time.

 

 

anyway, I can see what WG is going for with this. He shells out of most *normal* guns are practically worthless and this gives them at least some amount of consistency and utility. What they need to do now is fine tune the vehicles that rely on HE. If the KV-2 is stuck with its current reload, but now only does 330 damage, or basically becomes unplayable

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In addition to basically ending the KV-2, SU-152, etc this will also be a huge stealth buff to LTs and wheeled tanks.  

WG just further taking the fun out of their game by deleting derp memes.

I predict a 100% chance that this never makes it live - no fucking way that RU pubbies will tolerate giving up on derp guns.

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Some things that are going to be much less viable after the update include: Low Tier Derp guns, Soviet 152mm howitzers, British tanks with HESH, German LTs with HEP, Italian medium tanks with HEP/HESH, T49/Sheridan with the Derp gun, Tier 9 and 10 TDs and large gun heavies, particularly the Japanese Heavies, and of course, artillery. That's a pretty substantial list of tanks to be hit with an outright nerf hammer. This will impact pretty much every tank that can effectively use HE as a utility round or  uses HE/HESH as a standard round. it won't really hurt tanks that have poor HE performance already, but anything and everything that relies on HE to deal damage is going to suffer. the question is weather or not spamming HE from small caliber guns at really heavily armored tanks will be worth the change (looking at you 279 E).

I honestly hope that they test this, figure out that it is total crap, and permanently shelve the whole project. However, I expect WG will ignore everyone who gives feedback and ram it through anyways, then sit around and wonder why so many people left. If they combine the HE changes with the "special" ammo changes they tested earlier WG will take a pretty big hit in server population, but perhaps they think it will be worth it. Whatever happens I expect WG will take a big PR hit for this. They did promise "special" ammo and general balance changes, so they've backed them self into a bit of a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation.

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Apparently some WG guy commented on a thread on the official forums saying HESH will get special treatment. Probably re-worked as a separate type of ammo. Since that's apparently from some EU-dweeb, take with a huge shovel of salt.

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3 hours ago, Kymrel said:

Apparently some WG guy commented on a thread on the official forums saying HESH will get special treatment. Probably re-worked as a separate type of ammo. Since that's apparently from some EU-dweeb, take with a huge shovel of salt.

It actually literally says "This does not apply to SPG rounds or HESH" in the news post, so...

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I'm curious what their plans are for the KV2R. In a sad way it wouldn't surprise me if they leave its HE as is. And then of course WG will release a T49R as a tier 8 prem with the derp. Because WG...

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HE badly needs to be changed and this is way over due. Years and and years ago back when didn't have shit to do I wrote up an article about HE shells and how they should be modified. This appears to be similar to how I approached it, at least in effect even if not exact execution. The idea is too add another dimension to engagements by having ways to pressure high armor opponents which are otherwise invincible, like a top tier T29 hull down. HE guns and rounds could be a really important third option to have in the game for breaking up tough tanks in strong positions, especially if gold ammo is finally reduced in power. Right now they're just useless on 90% of tanks and RNG slot machines on dedicated guns. I've shelved all of mine (Pz IV, KV-2, etc.) because the inconstancy, lack of coherent gold round options, and terrible gun characteristics just make them frustrating to play.

I think you're all getting a little overly worked up. The calculations as to how HE works is complicated and opaque, to the point where we'll just have to see how it all actually works. At the same time, part of my plan involved minor buffs to dedicated HE guns like the Pz IV or KV-2. Most likely if the changes weaken them too much they'll do the same to compensate, either by improving bloom, accuracy, reload speed, or whatever.

Keep something else in mind, which is that if HE worked reasonably well that would be a point in favor or removing artillery at last. As it stands, it exists in part because it's the only thing that counters a Defender in a tier 8 game. If HE shells allowed a tier 6 to harass and actually present even a minor problem for a Defender you no longer need the ham-fisted balancing of artillery to maintain the veneer of balance.

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18 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

The calculations as to how HE works is complicated and opaque

Complicated, but not really sure on the opaque. Probably the biggest issue with it is that if your damage roll is below the armor thickness then you get a 'that one bounced' notification which just confuses things.

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3 hours ago, Ezz said:

I'm curious what their plans are for the KV2R. In a sad way it wouldn't surprise me if they leave its HE as is. And then of course WG will release a T49R as a tier 8 prem with the derp. Because WG...

I was talking about that a couple days ago when this first was announced with someone else - they did the same bullshit with the lefh where it still has a HEAT and AP round even though all the tech tree arty got theirs removed, so I would be completely unsurprised if the KV-2R became the only derp tank left in the game due to its status as a premium

 

 

Especially since they just sold it a week or two ago

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Quickybaby publicly tested Sandbox in a youtube video, and I have to say, the results are too severe. HE is really getting crapped on. Is this a good thing, probably. But it will make alot of people angry, generally the lazy people that like tanks like oi and KV2 or SU152, that don't require much aiming, or don't mind being low tier -2 either.

For example, quickybaby tested M4 dupeshot Sherman, with howitzer firing HE. PZlV and British Sherman, Renault, Hetzer, T4O will do the exact same. He was doing expected dmg like 95-145 to peer tier 4-5 tanks. Didn't matter if it were a PZlV or an ELC. on the otherhand, he was dealing damaging shots like 3HP, 8, 11, 33, 52   VS   0NI heavy tank in the very next test. He then tries out the SU152 with 152mm howitzer, which fires out shells with the same damage of others like Sheridan and KV2 - astonishingly low dmg hits like 86, 91.....VS other tier 7 tanks.  So things stand out here:  1)  WG is clear they want HE to singularly do very certain things, such as reset cap, or finish off low health enemies   2)  You are at distinct advantage if you spam HE, your DPM will be awful.   3)   low caliber HE shells won't be doing zero dmg splashes and blocked dmg hits.  Laughably, shooting a target for 3, 8, 11 dmg....TECHNICALLY isn't zero, and will still reset cap. And still WILL kill 2HP tank.  4)  things like IS7 or Kran or Chieftain, showing only their turrets in complete hulldown,  can still bounce 334mm HEAT from EHundo or Grille, but can be annoying for 1O~ odd damage from a T92 light tank or M41D, firing HE at it.   lol

Makes some sense, it removes bullying to a degree. Removing annoying inner module damage from HE splashes are good too.

I just think they have to increase the current sandbox testing parameter to double efficiency. I think the HE penalties are a tad too severe. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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on one hand I'm like yay jap heavies and HE-100s are a thing of the past but on the other im looking at it and saying well that is a huge nerf to wheelies and arty (and maybe HESH depending on how they handle it) plus all the Derp guns in the game got nerfed HARD.

I think they are still tweaking the math on how HE finds penetration points because before it was kinda random how HE penned you and the effects were odd. I'm interested to see where this goes and how they modify the math to make HE effective but not stupid
 

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The thing is, I dont really think there is any inherent issue with HE rounds fired out of "normal" (non derp/arty) guns. its a niche shell used for cap resets and stuff, as mentioned. nothing in this change from my reading sounds like it'd make me more likely to use it more often in that regard. 

the thing that needs changing is derp guns, and how high calibre HE works. currently its an RNG fest, and totally bleh for gameplay. I mean, stuff like the KV-2 are one thing. but Type 5s/183s etc are completely different things and that is what needs reworking, imo. 

though to be honest, I dont actually know how I'd rework the Type 5 or 183 etc short of removing the derp gun/shell, but in the KV-2s case for example I'd find even that isn't an option as it would be on the other two since doing that is pretty much removing the entire point of the KV-2. 

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I guess the one bit of good news is that the useless low-caliber HE will at least gain some utility resetting caps or finishing low-health enemies. Currently, the vast majority of guns in the game can't even do these things reliably with HE.

What I see as the bad news is that HE's most important purpose of all- countering thin armor, is now impossible in the sandbox. Hopefully HESH will retain its current characteristics and continue to fill that niche. Either that or other shell types with high alpha and low pen will be added to do so, SU-100y esque gold AP for instance.

Where things get weird is when we're talking about large caliber howitzers because these behave very differently than typical guns. If something like a KV-2 still has that super long reload only to do a couple-hundred damage at the most, that just isn't viable. They could simply increase the damage to compensate for the long reload, or vice-versa. I see howitzers like this one as a necessary counter to the current meta of face-to-face corridor brawling by tanks that have no frontal weakspots.

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11 hours ago, Mikosah said:

I guess the one bit of good news is that the useless low-caliber HE will at least gain some utility resetting caps or finishing low-health enemies. Currently, the vast majority of guns in the game can't even do these things reliably with HE.

Where things get weird is when we're talking about large caliber howitzers because these behave very differently than typical guns. If something like a KV-2 still has that super long reload only to do a couple-hundred damage at the most, that just isn't viable. 

 

A few problems. So the first testing, while not technically doing zero damage,  shooting HE from 1O5mm howitzer, and dealing 3, 8, 11 dmg to a super heavy,  is no real improvement at all. Yes, you will reset cap, sure. But if the super heavy tank, like  0NI pictured here, has at least 2% HP, which is 35 health points, that is low health.....and there is a good chance you W0N'T be killing it. Which goes against what they want. Remember, this is only an 0NI.....replace that with Maus or Type 5 or T95.  Judging how the next test, shows SU152, which has a whopping 152mm calibre HE projectile, dealing only 69 dmg to an IS? 

While this is a step in the right direction,  I think it is excrutiangly severe. HE spam is getting stopped in its tracks, and thats good, but it literally will only accomplish one of the things WG has planned for it to do. 2% of Maus HP, is 64 health, and there is a good chance that 15cm HE projectile is not dealing 64 dmg to a Maus type target,  then whats its purpose if it goes against what WG wants initially......?

 

Tinkering with the HE formula is the best way to solve this. And removing HE penetration, thats good. Right now the HE slashed dmg factor on non pen is .5   -->  this needs to be changed to a reduced number, like .25 or .33 or something. Add an arbitrary clause that minimum dmg applied on successful hits  (not burst area splashes)  sort of like min stun times, equals 5% damage dealt. Remove all lower caliber than 7cm HE, to remove these from lower caliber ineffectual guns which lets face it, wouldn't probably work against tanks anyway  AKA  37, 45, 47, 57  calliber.  So take the least damaging HE round in the game in this situation, that deals 156 dmg. It can either A)  deal 156 x .5 (point of impact - point of weakness - radius - spall liner equipped or not)  then deal its damage, and if less than 5% of shell base dmg, deal 5% regardless.  5% is only a guess-timate. They can tinker with numbers like 1O%, 15%, 2O%, 25% etc until they find something consistent and realistic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

 

A few problems. So the first testing, while not technically doing zero damage,  shooting HE from 1O5mm howitzer, and dealing 3, 8, 11 dmg to a super heavy,  is no real improvement at all. Yes, you will reset cap, sure. But if the super heavy tank, like  0NI pictured here, has at least 2% HP, which is 35 health points, that is low health.....and there is a good chance you W0N'T be killing it. Which goes against what they want. Remember, this is only an 0NI.....replace that with Maus or Type 5 or T95.  Judging how the next test, shows SU152, which has a whopping 152mm calibre HE projectile, dealing only 69 dmg to an IS? 

While this is a step in the right direction,  I think it is excrutiangly severe. HE spam is getting stopped in its tracks, and thats good, but it literally will only accomplish one of the things WG has planned for it to do. 2% of Maus HP, is 64 health, and there is a good chance that 15cm HE projectile is not dealing 64 dmg to a Maus type target,  then whats its purpose if it goes against what WG wants initially......?

 

Tinkering with the HE formula is the best way to solve this. And removing HE penetration, thats good. Right now the HE slashed dmg factor on non pen is .5   -->  this needs to be changed to a reduced number, like .25 or .33 or something. Add an arbitrary clause that minimum dmg applied on successful hits  (not burst area splashes)  sort of like min stun times, equals 5% damage dealt. Remove all lower caliber than 7cm HE, to remove these from lower caliber ineffectual guns which lets face it, wouldn't probably work against tanks anyway  AKA  37, 45, 47, 57  calliber.  So take the least damaging HE round in the game in this situation, that deals 156 dmg. It can either A)  deal 156 x .5 (point of impact - point of weakness - radius - spall liner equipped or not)  then deal its damage, and if less than 5% of shell base dmg, deal 5% regardless.  5% is only a guess-timate. They can tinker with numbers like 1O%, 15%, 2O%, 25% etc until they find something consistent and realistic. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're on the right track, but let's try asking a slightly different question- what exactly is wrong with the current HE? And my answer is only a few minor details.

One is that low caliber guns have absolutely no use for it, just too unreliable even at the tasks that it is supposed to do. But there is an exception, HESH serves its role pretty well. Most low caliber HE really just needs a bit more penetration and it'll counter thin armor just fine. Eliminating penetration entirely does not advance any of our goals.

As of the task of resetting caps, they could just assign a guaranteed minimum damage value for any direct HE hit above a given caliber. And this minimum value doesn't have to be large at all. Say for instance a typical mid-tier gun's minimum might only be in the single digits. Literally make HE ALWAYS do damage. Spall liners might be an exception and eliminate the minimum value.

And as of howitzers, I say they don't really need to change much if at all. They serve their purpose just fine. Against thin armor, they are an extreme threat and that's a good thing. Against thick armor, they do chip damage and that's also beneficial in the long run. Most blame that's put on howitzers is misplaced. AP would be the preferred method of dealing with armor if tactics like flanking or hitting weakspots were as viable and consistent as they should be. Sadly, they are not.

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What is wrong with HE, pretty much is the same reason what was wrong with it ages ago prior to 7.2 changes, or whatever patch 7.--xx it was. War gaming is notorious for not fixing problems, delaying fixing problems, or wholly adding whole new ones altogether. When the game was released in '11-12, a tier 6 KV1S could deal two-hundred+ HP of damage to an IS7 or Maus, simply using 465 dmg HE that costs mere six-hundred credits. Didn't have to aim, could even shoot at tracks for it.  While this same dmg could potentially be done to IS7 today, from an HE hit with 12O-122 guns,  it is highly highly highly unlikely. Actually, less than fifty is very likely. So with all the high tiers getting annoyed by dumb trades easily accomplished VS lower tiers, all the players screaming foul, '''HE is a crutch''' and all - WG took actual with their new armour models and HE effects. 

So what happened, was HE dmg was reduced. Don't get me wrong, many actual listed damages on shell types were increased,  such as 122 guns going from 465 to 53O. Patton and E5O going from 465 to 48O/51O respectively, Etc But their caused effect and damage reduction was clear, hitting heavy armour with HE in the face is/was typically no bueno. But the problem arises with consistency, WG hit the head of the nail right their with that word, they are just using wrong implementation to tackle it. Consistency. 

KV2 or  oi  or SU152 or Sheridan, can smack a tank like Brecher or  oho  for 35O dmg one shot, the next deal 25.....with the same 91O dmg ammo. I have seen Jag Pz shoot IS7 with 1.4K HE for over hundred, yet the next can even deal zero, yes I have seen zero enough. This isn't consistent, predictable, or healthy. It is ridiculous, a rolling slot machine with any number in the bank. FV4K5 can shoot front of T95 for 9 dmg,  then Type 5 shoots side scrape E-Hundo for six hundred. It is as stupid as it sounds, as it is in play.

Low calibers? Whats the problem there. Well, same thing. Hetzer can hit  oi  for  zero,  with a failed dmg roll  HE hit, or then 15O the next time. The 7.--xx whatever patch killed any HE gun lower than 1O5mm I would say with non penetrations, unless you are shooting tier <4 tanks without any HP anyway. I have loads of T6 skirm battles, and tanks like  oi  and T15O will easily stop and deflect 85/9Omm HE attacks for completely zero. It is common. And when you do squeak through and deal dmg, its like 15 points. 

HE vs light skinned tanks won't be needed, as AP dmg increases replace them. Sandbox AP increases mimic HE advantage over former AP and HEAT/APCR, it does more damage,  and way more reliably. Ever have RNG throw your HE round into enemy tracks despite you aiming N0T at the track? Won't matter for AP,  whereas HE turns 48O dmg HESH into 175 dmg splash. We don't need high dmg rounds anymore, as AP will soon be them, what we need is a desperation round to prevent bullying. And that is what WG plans, althoguh their planned steps seem too severe.

About what I said, lets change that to 15% minimum. A jag pz firing HE to deal minimum of 21O~ I think is fair,  VS rather doing 1K with AP/HEAT,  or if the dmg roll is higher which it may very likely be, it still isn't 1.4K  x  .5 modifier, its x .3 for new standards sake. Take a shitty light tank like T92,  is T92 broken all of a sudden if it starts hitting hulldown IS7 for 28 dmg? Don't think so. And as I said, keep 7cm guns the min caliber, so we don't see this shit lower tiers. But what we are seeing now is way too severe on Sandbox, SU152 hitting targets for 6O-95  with 152mm cal? That means FV won't do much better, it will be doing less than two hundred. 

WG also wants to take the large step in removing one-shots, a great percent of them. Hitting tanks like KV2, oi, Hetzer, T4O  -  its a step. Although they can still use HEAT ammo and do it......they just have to pay 6x the cost for it.   lol

 

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I think you are missing the point that playing my KV-2 in a platoon with friends is fun.  Its one of the very few things about this game that is still fun. 

Making the game 'better' while making it less playable seems to be a pretty common theme from WG lately.  This very forum has (HAD I should say) an entire section dedicated to T-49 HE memes.  What is the actual payback WG is expecting from this? Are all of the Hellcat drivers that rage quit the game after getting balanced by a 152mm gift from Stalin in 2015 going to reinstall? Doubtful.  Is yet another sub group of players (derp gun aficionados) going to finally throw in the towel? Probably.

This is another example of WG dev-team members that don't play the game trying to solve a problem that does not exist while ignoring obvious problems that would require actually learning the game meta to understand.

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