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Diriz0n

toxic light tanks

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So, since I've been sitting here watching this thread for the last week or so (with much groaning and gnashing of teeth), and because I got a new mechanical keyboard and want to take it for a spin, I think I'll reply to this thread.

On 11/16/2019 at 8:20 PM, Diriz0n said:

Mobility is important in accruing damage. LT may not have the reliable guns medium tanks do, in order to do so,  but have excellent small size except the American ones to use very small bushes to boost their camo. They retain their camo on the move, whereas medium tanks take 25% camo penalty. This is extremely important for abandoning lost flanks and rejoining new ones, in order to find damage - something that hay lead TD and meds taking damage to do so. They are far more suited to backing up 15m and using bush opaqueness than any other class, and their far stronger HP/T and reverse speed puts most med even to shame. 

If you think high mobility with less present risk, is not akin to the procurement of more possible dmg, you are an imbecile.

Are they better at farming dmg? No, but they are given more opportunity to do so, even if their guns can't match the opportunities presented. And for high scores, they don't have to put out as much too, taking advantage of WN8. I am not exactly advocating the farming of WN8, in say something low tier and/or clubbing like ELC BiS, or Type 64  -  but it goes to say if you are farming damage in tanks like WZ132A or AMX139O or T92 or Senlac - you most certainly are not playing low tiers and seal clubbing for high scores.

 

Yes, they have better mobility, and yes their camo + small size allows them to use bushes better. But please, tell me how that matters in the corridor maps/heavy armor meta nowadays?

Mobility is of some utility when dealing damage. That's for sure. However, the light tanks' extra mobility pales in comparison to the armor, DPM, pen, alpha, gun performance, gun depression, and HP they have to give up to get it. All of those things allow for much better damage dealing ability than the mobility and camo of light tanks.

The highest tier 10 light tank DPM is at the same level as the lowest tier 10 medium tank DPM. The highest tier 10 light tank prem pen is just slightly higher than average tier 10 medium tank standard pen. Those are not differences you can overcome just through a little mobility and camo on the move.

There's a reason average damages in light tanks are lower than in any other class. It's because they generally are a step or two below any other class in terms of firepower.

As far as padding Wn8. Who cares? A 30 second glance at the player's service record is enough to show that their abilities don't add up to their Wn8. Any recruiter from any clan worth anything will know that. Plus, Wn8 isn't really good for much besides measurement of personal performance and improvement, so...

On 11/16/2019 at 8:20 PM, Diriz0n said:

EBR are broken for more than just light tank quality. But on top of normal light tank quality, with the absence of 1 thing:  view range they have all the normal qualities light tanks have,  0N T0P 0F THEIR NEWLY ADDED broken parameters. Enough said. So not only does an EBR have insane top speed, illegal auto aim, high velocity ammunition to use that auto aim, high pen HE to use that auto aim, excellent gun handling for use in auto aim, trollollo tires in their defense, cannot over-turn and time out in their defense, excellent reverse speed, speeds which can overcome some blocked off passages which lead to climbing in maps still......they add these to the inherit light tank bonus such as faster repair speed base, high base camo, camo on the move, low light tank soft stats, high HP/T, small size, Etc.

I do have to agree here. The EBR is broken. It wrecks any other light tank out there, and with minimal effort/thought put into playing them. Provided you can play a light tank decently well, an EBR is easy af to play.

The simple fact is that they destroy any other light tank since:

A) They beat them to important positions, and can flex much more easily.

B) They can snapshot (with great HE nonetheless) while enemy light tanks have to stop and aim at them.

C) They take much less damage than their counterparts thanks to pubbies' inability to aim and the fact that they can't be tracked. And,

D) They can chase the enemy light tank down whenever they want.

Altogether, that makes them hell to face in any other light tank. EBR's were my biggest problem when I was doing LT-15 for the 260.

On 11/16/2019 at 8:20 PM, Diriz0n said:

I hate light tanks because they are toxic support classes which do the same shit as artillery. Artillery and TD punishing aggressive play and maneuvers? It is likely because a light tank spotted the maneuver first to begin with. Laid back TD, and forest spawn camping arty aren't aggressors or retaliators - they are force multipliers which shoot from afar to what is spoon fed spotted for them. Sure, it is easy to get mad at them, but alot of their results are brought on by either LT class:  a rabid speeding EBR, or a hidden wanker light tank. 

If arty are removed from a class, and all existing arty become HE gun TD instead,  like a Hetzer,  removing indirect support and stuns......the same should be done with light tanks. Light tanks should be re-branded as either TD or mediums, and have their camo on the move taken away. In turn, they can get normal expected med firepower and behave like the already present lighter medium tanks  IE:  Leo, AMX3O, CDC. This just removes broken from the game.

And now we get back to me disagreeing with you. I don't even know where you came up with this argument to be honest, but wherever it was you got it from, it should've stayed there.

The problem here is two-fold:

First, you are blaming light tanks for a problem originating with arty and TD's. Take arty and TD's out of the equation, and suddenly you don't have a problem anymore.

Second, your assertion that light tanks are the things spotting you for arty and TD's is fallacious at best. On certain maps, sure, they can spot you early on your path to wherever the main fight is going to happen (although 90% of the time this is easily avoidable by just taking a non-retarded path, like staying along the redline on Lakeville). However, once you're in the main fight, light tanks aren't the ones spotting you. You're spotted by whatever med/heavy you're brawling with currently (since this whole game has boiled down more and more to brawling in the current meta). Light tanks have nothing to do with that. Take them out of the equation and you would still be spotted.

So, yeah... Again, I don't know how you came up with that argument, but please don't repeat that creative process again.

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Ensk and himmels can be turned off. Half your horrendous problems, are gone. Turn off assault/enc so no chance of them at all. 0ther not too reputable maps for light tanks like Paris, Minsk, Ruinberg - aren't as major a problem. By turning off those maps which limit you, more of the times you will get redshire, prokh, malin which instead have you limitless. Lots of the corridors people dread, can simply be removed.

I never said they deal more damage. I said they have more opportunity to deal damage with less risk. This is done through their heightened mobility, smaller size, and better camo. As I said, somehow you are caught up in the waters where you think I believe that light tanks are better damage dealers. They aren't. They just like artillery and TD, place themselves in position and/or have the opportunity to deal damage more of the time, even if their attempt fails. Dodging reprimand and retaliation, is the big thing. Arty don't deal more damage than heavy tanks and meds - but their damage is done by most part freely in no exchange whatsoever. Though this is not true for all light tank shots taken, it certainly happens more often than medium tanks attempting it. 

Reasons for dealing less dmg in lights, largely constitute stupid 45% shitters yolo-ing and wasting their tank on some stupid suicide 1m into battle. In addition, some shitters like the extremely fast go-kart like feeling of zipping around in light tanks attempting to dodge all possible fire early on. And they don't, and die. 

Padding WN8 applies if you are stacking dmg in something stupid like PZNA 38, or AMX ELC, or a Type 64. A paddable seal clubber, taking advantage of low tier foes. If people are generating 2.8K dmg in tier X light tank, are you the one to accuse them of padding WN8 against high tiers? You do it. That is what someone who fully understands the power of LT can do. Sure, if their assisted was like 5OOper game, I guess you can get mad at them for farming dmg instead of spotting, but they aren't fucking padding. You do it.  This isn't some crock, re-rolling, buying Type 64, dealing 1500 dmg per game, having bazillion WN8, and not doing anything else on the account. This is some guy, in AMX131O5, dealing 3K dmg and having that WN8 too, and you want to kill him a padder?

You misunderstood. Whole EBR argument doesn't apply. EBR operate with the premise, they have all the advantages light tanks have naturally, to begin with. Except 1,  view range. Which means EBR are broken broken, not just broken, because they are super light tanks.

Arty and TD (or any sniper schnitzel K91, Leo, 215B) react to foes seen. Though some do the seeing themselves, arty most certainly do not. Which largely mean they aren't the original problem. They are a flagrant problem, following the sight of a hidden problem, sure. They aren't the invisible spotter. This is the stupidest shit I have ever read. Take away Arty and TD from the game, and you have Leo and K91 doing the exact same shit as TD do, WITH THE INVISI LT STILL SP0TTlNG. Remove arty from the game because it is simply a point and click roast bait, sure. I agree 11O%. But remove LT too, another stagnating support class, and have meds do the spotting with much greater risks to themselves.  (no camo on the move, less base camo)  As a result, games are more fluid, less stagnant. 

Sure, in the streets of lakeville or paris, lights don't really spot do they.  Nor does arty really bomb anyone either, or TD hit people for 75O. TD try to get poky, and shoot people in the city using goat road? There is where light tanks step in and spot them, and they get bombed. Arty doesn't do much else than splash people  (if lucky) in city maps. 

 

A lot of your theorymon, doesn't apply. or possibly you think every map is Ensk. This just in, turn it off. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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So according to Dirizon shit balance causes the terminally ill light tank class to be at fault?

What?

 

Also, am I the only one who wishes light tanks had less extreme and more variant characteristics instead of "MUH MOBILITY!!!", with all that 30 hp/t++ nonsense?

 

Like ffs, 60 kph should be fast!

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2 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

What kind of person says that?

LT432, Type 64 shit on people all the time. Before all these light tanks were released, so did M41GF. What are you talking about

 

?

LT-432 is OP compared to other T8 lights, but in overall game balance I wouldnt call it OP. The others are just all horribly under performing.

M41 90 was good but NEVER was OP. 

Type 64 isn't exactly OP either. Its just used because its a prem and good at making credits in T6 stronks, id say its fairly equal with most T6 light tanks.

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LT-432 is armor aids LT and should not exist. Its a travesty for the Object 432 but lets be real WG would sell their souls to the devil if it would make them more money. But I don't think its a big problem.

M41 90 idk never thought of it as a problem. Its not an exceptional tank. Easy to kill, pretty fast but a little big, with some punch, good DPM and decent acc.

Type 64 is OP for a tier 6 light. Fully kitted it fires almost as fast as the 12T during the magazine dump. It doesn't really have downsides. It would be completely broken in the vision meta, but its not the vision meta so it doesn't hurt that much.

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15 hours ago, Enroh said:

@Diriz0n did Anfield sock your account? And did you get a new kb yet?

You are funny.

Anfield doesn't do anything other than BD0 right now. Actually for awhile now. And the very very very very slim chance he is actually doing tanks, it is tier X only. Chums accounts, new content like WZ5A, 6OTP, obj 277. Given that my account recents, constitute awhole lot of things other than tier X, other than new content, largely the tier X he doesn't do too, and I am not a chum - you can see where this is going. Get some clips of Anfield playing (which means twitching) a lineup of Sav/43, AC1, AC4, PZlVSchmul, Dickermax, SU-1OOY, and AMX1375 - then you have got a case. 

No new keyboard. My desktop is in dis-repair and out of action. Notebook.

What does arty sperge mean? So I know what not to do?

Type 64 and M41GF were actually quite mediocre. Then the big changes came, and 9.17 hit. With the re-work, all other tiered light tanks were radically cut at the knees, except prem tanks basically making them tier +O.5x vehicles. Type 64, Type 62, AMX1357, M41GF are good examples. Put Type 64 beside T37? no contest, T37 is a joke. Put M41GF beside Bulldog, ditto.  

Even 9O or T92 didn't do much of anything, in attempting to de-throne M41GF. Neither did T-5O-2 for Type 64. Because they were much like tech tree light tanks, bland and balanced. However, things changed when LT432 came out, same with HK3O and M41D. Light tanks better than their tech tree peers, and LT432 case significantly better. 

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16 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

You are funny.

Anfield doesn't do anything other than BD0 right now. Actually for awhile now. And the very very very very slim chance he is actually doing tanks, it is tier X only. Chums accounts, new content like WZ5A, 6OTP, obj 277. Given that my account recents, constitute awhole lot of things other than tier X, other than new content, largely the tier X he doesn't do too, and I am not a chum - you can see where this is going. Get some clips of Anfield playing (which means twitching) a lineup of Sav/43, AC1, AC4, PZlVSchmul, Dickermax, SU-1OOY, and AMX1375 - then you have got a case. 

No new keyboard. My desktop is in dis-repair and out of action. Notebook.

What does arty sperge mean? So I know what not to do?

Type 64 and M41GF were actually quite mediocre. Then the big changes came, and 9.17 hit. With the re-work, all other tiered light tanks were radically cut at the knees, except prem tanks basically making them tier +O.5x vehicles. Type 64, Type 62, AMX1357, M41GF are good examples. Put Type 64 beside T37? no contest, T37 is a joke. Put M41GF beside Bulldog, ditto.  

Even 9O or T92 didn't do much of anything, in attempting to de-throne M41GF. Neither did T-5O-2 for Type 64. Because they were much like tech tree light tanks, bland and balanced. However, things changed when LT432 came out, same with HK3O and M41D. Light tanks better than their tech tree peers, and LT432 case significantly better. 

What did I say was funny? I was not making any attempt at humour. 

That being said, I know who Anfield is, and what he does and does not play. So no need for you to attempt to educate me. What was brought to my attention was this video of him playing an account with what looks like your name. All I am doing is asking you to clarify whether this is your account or not.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Sperging out

See above and see how it relates to your original post. 

Downboating an admin. Now that is funny. 

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I have no problem when someone trashes whatever the content. Don't have a problem with neg votes, what was my forum neg rep, 2K? Like l care. Everyone has opinions. I respect that. I have extreme ideas, and I see no discontent at all with it, if people were to refute them, disagree, Etc. Churchill5O- did it quite the responsible way, and he disagrees with every single thing I say. 

But what I do have a problem with, when people feel the need to personalize the trashing, to not only content, but the creator. That is forum shit, right there. For a place advocating against that, sure doesn't seem it. And if I were to interject, lol I get a warning. No offense, but this is bad showmanship,  and you lead by crumby, flaky example.

I really don't have a problem, with you or Has. Really don't. Has is a funny guy, the more I read his content. But for so many others, the felt need to do away with content, and shame.....lol forum. We are posters. The problems start, when people start calling others shitters, or retards, or whatever. I know we are all grownups, fine. Things are no holds bar or Rated R  -  but if I were to call someone a retard in return. Insta-Warning. Nice. 

Not to applaud the posts of Assassin7-  but in all fairness that is how it is supposed to be done. And you two don't do it. If Admins are keen to get all Gestapo on me, perhaps its best as well to do so to the others not minding their manners either. I mean, before this thread, I had a positive rep  (Lord knows why)  so some of the things I have said made sense, to some. 

They are just opinions. Disagree or agree. It is a forum. Stop going all Mean Girls on people.  

 

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16 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

I have no problem when someone trashes whatever the content. Don't have a problem with neg votes, what was my forum neg rep, 2K? Like l care. Everyone has opinions. I respect that. I have extreme ideas, and I see no discontent at all with it, if people were to refute them, disagree, Etc. Churchill5O- did it quite the responsible way, and he disagrees with every single thing I say. 

But what I do have a problem with, when people feel the need to personalize the trashing, to not only content, but the creator. That is forum shit, right there. For a place advocating against that, sure doesn't seem it. And if I were to interject, lol I get a warning. No offense, but this is bad showmanship,  and you lead by crumby, flaky example.

I really don't have a problem, with you or Has. Really don't. Has is a funny guy, the more I read his content. But for so many others, the felt need to do away with content, and shame.....lol forum. We are posters. The problems start, when people start calling others shitters, or retards, or whatever. I know we are all grownups, fine. Things are no holds bar or Rated R  -  but if I were to call someone a retard in return. Insta-Warning. Nice. 

Not to applaud the posts of Assassin7-  but in all fairness that is how it is supposed to be done. And you two don't do it. If Admins are keen to get all Gestapo on me, perhaps its best as well to do so to the others not minding their manners either. I mean, before this thread, I had a positive rep  (Lord knows why)  so some of the things I have said made sense, to some. 

They are just opinions. Disagree or agree. It is a forum. Stop going all Mean Girls on people.  

 

The others get admonished as well. It is all not one-sided. 

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On 11/20/2019 at 4:51 PM, Diriz0n said:

I have no problem when someone trashes whatever the content. Don't have a problem with neg votes, what was my forum neg rep, 2K? Like l care. Everyone has opinions. I respect that. I have extreme ideas, and I see no discontent at all with it, if people were to refute them, disagree, Etc. Churchill5O- did it quite the responsible way, and he disagrees with every single thing I say.

 

To be fair, I did agree with you on the 263 in another thread, and on the EBR being cancer.

 

Also, I do intend to respond to this thread again. I just haven't had a chance to do so over the last few days.

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On 11/19/2019 at 4:56 PM, Diriz0n said:

You are funny.

Anfield doesn't do anything other than BD0 right now. Actually for awhile now. And the very very very very slim chance he is actually doing tanks, it is tier X only. Chums accounts, new content like WZ5A, 6OTP, obj 277. Given that my account recents, constitute

Did you guys notice that he must have fixed the keyboard (or bought a new one)?

Zero = 0

Cap O

Low o

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6 hours ago, churchill50 said:

To be fair, I did agree with you on the 263 in another thread, and on the EBR being cancer.

Also, I do intend to respond to this thread again. I just haven't had a chance to do so over the last few days.

You can post a million times, to your hearts content. All l said was that its done in more or less proper fashion, picking apart my content.  That is what content is for, sharing of opinions.

Rather than calling me a boob. 

I think obj 263 is a stronger tier 9 than it was tier X. Its various re-models have culminated in the tank receiving more hull armour, more HP/T, more horizontal gun arc. Although now inaccurate, compared to it once being very accurate.....it does have shorter aim-time and better dispersion soft stats. My complaint is, that the stock 122mm gun  (IS4s gun)  should be made more into a viable DPM/Accuracy/Aim-time option whereas the 13Omm (IS7-esque gun)  has alpha damage, velocity, and APCR.  Sort of like the gun differences to choose from, with Jag Panther or SU1OO  -  either choice is viable and works. 0r like W. Pz lV and Conway.

Still waiting on news from SU12254 though.  

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nigga-what-18250321.png

^MFW I read this thread.

So let's get this straight, passive play is the problem but it isn't caused by arta or chai snipers, these only cause trouble because other tanks spot targets for them? Meanwhile, we're also establishing that mediums fulfill the spotting role sufficiently so that we don't need a dedicated scout class to begin with even if mediums basically cause all the same 'toxic behaviors' as lights? Also that light tank players pad their stats because lights have super low requirements. Why might that be?

Ok, so here's a few mild rebuttals: 1- passive play happens because it has always been and will forever be path of least resistance. But one of the best ways to excise the cancerous tumors of arta and chai snipers is to gee, I don't know, spot them. If only there was a class for that. 2- generally speaking, high tier tanks all have very high view range and mutually spot one another whenever they engage unless render distance or bush shenanigans are in play. True that it does make lights redundant in most situations, but if the complaint is that vision causes passivity, what about every other tank with high view range? 3- lights get used for padding because they have super low wn8 requirements, and that's because they don't do nearly as well in the current meta as any other class.

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So, passive play is a problem. We agree on that. Tank destroyers and artillery, that punish flanking aggressive play  (could be any class other than arta)  are passive units. And though I agree, a portion of their spotting is provided by brawling units or ridgeline fighters, a great deal of their spotting is either through EBRs racing along  (light tank too, not passive but disastrously broken too) or passive light tank spotters in soft cover, being no more active or mobile than passive back-line arty or TD. So you have huge swathes of damage, free damage from back-line campers, being generated by a camper light tank (or broken go-kart)  I agree that medium tanks should take up the bulk of spotting roles if light tanks were removed, as it is far fairer. They have less camo. They are larger, and are confined to using larger bushes. They lose camo on the move. These risks, are risks light tanks get away with. Even for example, a light tank with poorer camo available like American ones, T71 CD.....it still has more camo on the move than Bat Chat 25T a powerful camo oriented med, because Bat Chat loses so much when moving. And after firing. With these in mind, and everyone should know this, meds are clearly no where near as toxic as light tanks even the most powerful camo oriented ones, and even if they tried to use their tactics. The only way that works, is if LT are gone and then meds can fight a camo war among other meds. 

Spotting arty is hard, as they are back-field and quite literally the last units left alive, 95% of the time. Spotting back-field TD is virtually the same, the only reason arty live longer are because arty usually are behind these TD. ''Just go out and spot them'' is a horrible thing to do, as things like E25 or Strv do exceptionally well at not being spotted, even if you have 445+ view range. You make it sound like all arty and TD units around are things like Tortoise or Jag Pz, which they certainly are not. 

Bush shenanigans commonly come into play. Some people love it, some people hate it. Many don't understand it. Despite WG efforts in breaking up map terrain, lowering bush coverage - bushes still cause lots of angst and promote passivity. Why do you think WG pushed out closing off maps? Because people are sick and tired of extremes. Some people love their open maps with bushes, and prey on people with their WZ12OG. So they are given the option to close ensk and himmels so they can do what they love more of the time. Some people like drinking coka-cola and talking on the phone while playing their Type 5 or oi, and not doing much other than sitting on a street corner and derping someone 25Om away maximum. So they are given the choice to remove malinovka and prokhorovka. 

What do you mean by well, WN8? Arty does terribly WN8. Unless you mean solely M44, but that is mostly WR, not WN8. And besides, this is an extremely moot argument. Because you have a large portion of people who don't even have a clue in using light tanks, it grossly skews requirements. And even the people who do know how to use them, and spot 2-3K assisted, are still seen to do 2-3 shots of dmg all game - which still skews (and screws) over WN8. And you have some guy, who excels at dealing dmg in meds, load a LT with gold ammo, packed with an excellent crew, knowing excellent map positioning, knows how to advantageously use team mates as pawns - deal 8 damaging shots instead with 5OO spotting only, and WN8 rockets.

 

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