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Tupinambis

Another arty rebalance incoming

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Unless my reading comprehension is extremely bad and I just don't know it, here's what appears to be happening.

Arty [tier 6 and up] is getting 3 shell types

1. "normal" shells that cause reduced stun damage. The damage stays the same but does NOT increase in accordance to the increased HP pools in the sandbox

2. "Special" HE shells that cause more damage, have more "pen" [if HE pen is still a thing...] and a higher burst radius.... but has absolutely no stun effect, and

3. "alternative" shells [like AP and HEAT] that have good pen, but cause less damage [again, probably not increased to compensate for the higher HP pools].

Overall goal is to make arty stun less and cause less damage in proportion to the rest of the team [aka. nerf overall].

The LeFH and Sexton I are keeping their premium AP/HEAT shells, but their damage isn't getting increased to compensate for the HP pools spiking at lower tiers.

I don't think any specific numbers are available yet, but since arty probably isn't going to be actually removed from the game... this doesn't seem like a bad idea?

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/11/26/wot-sandbox-rebalancing-artillery-and-their-shells/
https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2019/11/26/wot-sandbox-new-iteration-patchnotes/

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1 hour ago, Tupinambis said:

2. "Special" HE shells that cause more damage, have more "pen" [if HE pen is still a thing...] and a higher burst radius.... but has absolutely no stun effect

(gold?) Shells that straight up just do more dmg.....

where have we seen this before? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

special ammo of the Premium SPGs are represented by HEAT (for the 105 leFH18B2) and AP (for the Sexton I) shells. The parameters of these shells will remain unchanged.

lmao OK

Wo1D1UV.png

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3 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

(gold?) Shells that straight up just do more dmg.....

where have we seen this before? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

special ammo of the Premium SPGs are represented by HEAT (for the 105 leFH18B2) and AP (for the Sexton I) shells. The parameters of these shells will remain unchanged.

lmao OK

Wo1D1UV.png

Yeah the no-change for the Sexton and LeFH doesn't really surprise me, but given that everything that they're shooting at has like... a shitton more hit points than before, that kinda sorta counts as an overall nerf.

Those damage figures for the AP and HEAT shots are... actually really bad given how big those guns are and how low the ROF is.

13 minutes ago, echo9835 said:

This is sort of removing stun mechanics from the game. Who the hell would try to stun over more damage?

Looking at the stats that Deus just posted, it seems like a really marginal increase in damage.

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The WG post seems to suggest that the no-stun shells are supposed to have a proportional damage output (i.e. damage relative to HP pools) similar to what they currently have on the live server, which is supposed to be about 15% higher damage, so yes, not a huge increase.

It's basically, keep the stun but be doing less damage relative to the increased HP pools per shot, do the same damage relative to the increased HP pools but without the stun, or risk it all with full-pen AP/HEAT.

While I don't like the idea of full-pen AP/HEAT coming back (unless the damage is in-line with overall average damage per shot for the tier), overall it's a sensible move. One of the primary issues with low-tier arty in particular is that their damage output is way too high relative to the HP, so given lower tiers in particular have seen a good spike in HP, it would completely undo that work if they gave arty an increase in damage as well as keeping the stun. This seems like a decent compromise.

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The only time i cared about stunning people was for missions, and even then it was somewhat broken due to the fact people could just med kit them away which made the stun damage ones a shit fight.

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I think it will occur for more than just tier 6 as min effected SPGs

The homepage notice states the lower tiered vehicles with higher tier guns that stun  (Bison, SU5, M41, SU122A)  will also be changed accordingly. 

Frankly, I don't see the logic behind these changes. They just changed stun, and nerfed HE damage mechanics. Why are they now increasing damage now? While still nerfing tank HE shell dmg? Really?

 

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17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Frankly, I don't see the logic behind these changes. They just changed stun, and nerfed HE damage mechanics. Why are they now increasing damage now? While still nerfing tank HE shell dmg? Really?

But remember that on the sandbox server all HPs are higher. So you are basically choosing between (if we assume HPs are normalized to the live server):

a. Existing stun durations and lower damage

b. Current damage output and no stun

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6 minutes ago, Fenxis said:

But remember that on the sandbox server all HPs are higher. So you are basically choosing between (if we assume HPs are normalized to the live server):

a. Existing stun durations and lower damage

b. Current damage output and no stun

they plan on lowering the total stun time too. I'm not complaining, I am just confused.

 

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11 minutes ago, echo9835 said:

they plan on lowering the total stun time too. I'm not complaining, I am just confused.

Our Plans Under Test:
Decrease the total duration of the stun.
Decrease the damage share caused by SPGs.


Standard shells: HE shells that stun and cause a relatively small amount of damage. The damage values are taken from the live server. It does not consider the increased HP pool of vehicles on the Sandbox server. That means in terms of the percentage of the total HP pool, such shells will cause less damage.

I'm not seeing how -- It's kind of alluded to in the and overview and summary (total stun duration should significantly decrease) but I think that is assuming that arty players will be going for damage more. Nothing specific about stun duration changes, as of yet, for standard shells.

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36 minutes ago, Fenxis said:

I'm not seeing how -- It's kind of alluded to in the and overview and summary (total stun duration should significantly decrease) but I think that is assuming that arty players will be going for damage more. Nothing specific about stun duration changes, as of yet, for standard shells.

yeah but why? Did arty really need another re-balancing? I know it is broken, but this won't change how most players feel when the 3 artillery fountain of shit starts spraying them. From the clicker scum's perspective the choice is meaningless. The premium, no stun HE is the clear winner here unless you need stuns for missions. The AP is so weak in comparison to the Premium HE that it is almost entirely worthless. HE should (in theory) do more damage than the AP to lightly or moderately armored targets, and the penetration is not enough to contest a lot of heavies frontally with the generally poor accuracy of SPGs. That means that even in a shotgun situation, AP is not the ideal choice. against LTs, paper TDs, and most MTs, the AP does significantly less damage than HE and risks bouncing or disappearing into an the tracks. Against HTs and tough TDs, the HE might do less damage, but the heavy armor of those tanks means that AP risks bouncing.It is at best a soft removal of stun, so why not just remove stun? The changes in question don't really accomplish half of what Wargaming wants them to and don't address the other issues that artillery create ( insane crew damage, death of a thousand cuts, maps with no artillery cover whatsoever). So yeah, I am a bit confused as to why Wargaming did this in the first place.

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They've realized arty has always been a mistake and want to remove it, but can't because too many crusty old fucks who play this game would whine about it under the pretense of "something something participation trophy" without catching so much as a hint of the irony. So instead they're just slowly nerfing it to death. They're using the boiling frog effect of gradual change to avoid a backlash. This also avoids a ton of headaches a hard removal would create, such as how to compensate players for all the XP they sunk into the lines, or how to fix all the grind missions which require playing artillery.

The sandbox is actually shaping up to be a massive, positive change for the game, because they figured out people are garbage at making judgments with numbers. So they're using a bunch of numerical shell games like inflating hit points and AP damage to confuse the 300-400 brain cells the average WoT player has to make badly overdue changes which would otherwise create a massive bitch-fit.

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It's entirely possible, yes. Whether they intended to do it or not, the power creep they added into the game is fucking things up. This is a way to reign some of that power creep back in without the plebs rioting. It's entirely possible the new revenue model is > add new power creep tanks/game mechanics/currencies > too much power creep > overhaul which evens things out > restart cycle. It's a way to keep every one investing in buying new crap while allowing the old crap to cyclically become relevant again. It would certainly be better than the current cycle which is > add new power creep tanks/game mechanics/currencies > too much power creep > ???? > PROFIT! > MOON BASE! > GAME DED.

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But that still won't fix the pen and armor creep (general power creep), the horrific map design. And while WG might think wheelies counter snipers... Bush cancer.

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What Jesse said basically, they are doing another 'rebalance', but really its a nerf to keep slowly killing arty to the point eventually no one plays it. 

This is a nerf, especially so I believe for tier 5 and 6 arties, because I think (though may be wrong about this) that their alpha damage has not only not been changed to reflect the increased HP pools due to the premium ammo change, but it also hasn't been changed to reflect the general tier 6 and below HP buffs.

On the HE and previous 'special ammo' sandbox versions, tier 6 and below tanks had essentially received TWO HP buffs, one to effectively nerf premium ammo, and the other because their HP pools are too low generally.

I don't think the alpha of the arties has been changed to reflect both changes, so even the 'improve damage no stun' round, will only be doing as much damage (effectively) as it does now on live, except now like a KV-1 has like 1.1k hit points or something, so an M44 has 550 on standard rounds, and like 630 or something on it;s higher damage rounds, but the tier 5 and 6 tanks it is facing now have way higher HP.

Same applies to like the LeFH.

Of course those tier 5 and 6 arties also get their HP buffed but in most situations arty HP is irrelevant, so it doesn't benefit them much, everything they fire at now takes them way longer to kill. 

On a wider scale this whole HP buff change is a pretty easy way to nerf too good premiums, leave them all as they are, so your Defender has 440 alpha and 1500 hit points, whilst your IS-3 will have 450 alpha standard rounds and like 1750 HP for example. 

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