Supertest: bat-chatillon 12t mle 54

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

On 12/19/2019 at 6:23 PM, SchnitzelTruck said:

Whenever I think I'm full of myself I'm going to come back here and read this quote.

This is taken perhaps  negatively, boastfully, in a way I did not intend. Let me correct that. 

First of all, I really enjoy Garbad. A fore-father for content across NA, he has done lots for the game publicly and for expectations. I don't know what kind of player I'd be, if I didn't read any of his early material throughout this games history. But what I meant is:  look at his tier X tanks, and looking at mine, at a basic sense if you were an ally on my team, or an ally on his team - you would go out and play the game - and expect what when game results pop? 3K dmg, 4K dmg? 1K assisted to boot? Now looking at our shared tier X, what is seen? Seems pretty comparable. obviously he is at a disadvantage, because lots of his games are very old, when CW games played counted towards random service record, I understand that while none of mine are - and let us be real 4K dmg in a pub? People do it often, but who steps up and consistently does that in CW? I understand. But then again, his win rates, which absolutely stomp mine otherwise, are largely attributed to -G- status, where he has been forever, and has had plenty opportunity to platoon with the likes of people such as Sela. I've never had that. 

Valachio was my best youtube source before circon and sirfoch went mainstream, as I've never been a QB kind of follower. Unlike Garbad, who people would just read his material, you could put a face to valachio, and watch his content. Instrumental and fundamental, as back then WoT inspector was no where near as good as the very generous tanks gg we have now. Props to him, I think he is a fellow Canadian from ontario too. He doesn't play anymore because of his watch business. So it is impossible to do any sort of comparison, as when he did play the game didn't count large portions of assistance damage. Back then you ACTUALLY had to spot. Which l do very little of. But now, you can get away with assistance such as track dmg, which I can do quite well. Just shoot the front wheel of a tank in the numerous engagements you find yourself in. 

If you compare the results of older generation of players, like Sela, Valachio, Garbad, Hammer91 - whoever take your pick. That played since what, '11? Their numbers are great, but are influenced by CW battles which back then counted towards service record. Now, new gen re-rolls, like the Hua_Q accounts on Mahou, you see these uninfluenced numbers like 4-5-6 K  DPG in tier X. There is a reason why I didn't use these guys.

If you wish, or others too,  to make note of me as a 51% shitter, okay, I accept. It seems today in our politically correct, rigid WoT world, a 51% shitter is the type of person that deals 3K DPG in tier X tanks. So by rule of being better than that, someone averaging 4K is mediocre, and 5K is great. Alright, got it.

 

[Haswell 2,399]

On 12/20/2019 at 7:48 AM, MagicalFlyingFox said:

I aced a stock AMX M4 45 in its first battle......

 

 

Oh and arty can suck a big fat cock. 

*incoherent politics related noises* 

 

 

I'm practically garbad. 

You didn't put in a GoT reference, no points for you.

[Fenxis 76]

On 12/16/2019 at 11:42 PM, Diriz0n said:

Yes sure, Skill4 3 marks bad tanks like Tiger ll and T-34-2. He does. But he doesn't call them good. And would do much better in something like Type 59, T-34-3, or Lowe and E75TS. He even is disgusted by the E75, and still does way better than Tiger ll

E75 TS? He thinks it's ok now

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:06 AM, Fenxis said:

E75 TS? He thinks it's ok now

When it first came out, not so.

Which is when I said it. I believe he was very critical 

 

[hazzgar 730]

On 12/21/2019 at 6:17 AM, Diriz0n said:

This is taken perhaps  negatively, boastfully, in a way I did not intend. Let me correct that. 

First of all, I really enjoy Garbad. A fore-father for content across NA, he has done lots for the game publicly and for expectations. I don't know what kind of player I'd be, if I didn't read any of his early material throughout this games history. But what I meant is:  look at his tier X tanks, and looking at mine, at a basic sense if you were an ally on my team, or an ally on his team - you would go out and play the game - and expect what when game results pop? 3K dmg, 4K dmg? 1K assisted to boot? Now looking at our shared tier X, what is seen? Seems pretty comparable. obviously he is at a disadvantage, because lots of his games are very old, when CW games played counted towards random service record, I understand that while none of mine are - and let us be real 4K dmg in a pub? People do it often, but who steps up and consistently does that in CW? I understand. But then again, his win rates, which absolutely stomp mine otherwise, are largely attributed to -G- status, where he has been forever, and has had plenty opportunity to platoon with the likes of people such as Sela. I've never had that. 

Valachio was my best youtube source before circon and sirfoch went mainstream, as I've never been a QB kind of follower. Unlike Garbad, who people would just read his material, you could put a face to valachio, and watch his content. Instrumental and fundamental, as back then WoT inspector was no where near as good as the very generous tanks gg we have now. Props to him, I think he is a fellow Canadian from ontario too. He doesn't play anymore because of his watch business. So it is impossible to do any sort of comparison, as when he did play the game didn't count large portions of assistance damage. Back then you ACTUALLY had to spot. Which l do very little of. But now, you can get away with assistance such as track dmg, which I can do quite well. Just shoot the front wheel of a tank in the numerous engagements you find yourself in. 

If you compare the results of older generation of players, like Sela, Valachio, Garbad, Hammer91 - whoever take your pick. That played since what, '11? Their numbers are great, but are influenced by CW battles which back then counted towards service record. Now, new gen re-rolls, like the Hua_Q accounts on Mahou, you see these uninfluenced numbers like 4-5-6 K  DPG in tier X. There is a reason why I didn't use these guys.

If you wish, or others too,  to make note of me as a 51% shitter, okay, I accept. It seems today in our politically correct, rigid WoT world, a 51% shitter is the type of person that deals 3K DPG in tier X tanks. So by rule of being better than that, someone averaging 4K is mediocre, and 5K is great. Alright, got it.

 

Dude Garbad played very long time ago where meta and everything was different and pulling 4k was like pulling 5k now. 

Also there are many non rerolls who pull 5k dpg. Decha can. Not to mention rerolling has nothing to do with your 100 battle dpg session.

 

Also we take your opinions as a shitter because you speak like a shitter. Objectively you have better stats than me. I hover below 3k dpg in my t10s. Usually 2600-3000. Yeah I could blame it on playing min settings on a shitty laptop and unstable connection but I won't. I just don't post opinions that are illogical. That doesn't even have to be related to your in game performance. Your arguments don't make sense from a data analysis standpoint either. So it doesn't matter if you look at what you say from a point of view of best players or from the pov of someone who has years of real life experience of using data to actually predict real life events and do it well. So maybe just stop, listen to others, learn instead of agressively defending your opinions despite the fact that literally everyone on the forums here tells you you are wrong. I mean seriously. I'm an elite school asshole, without any parenting and an ego the size of Texas and I'd still think twice about my opinions if 100% of an elite community in a given topic told me I'm wrong. I mean seriously. This is simple logic. 

9 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

When it first came out, not so.

Which is when I said it. I believe he was very critical 

 

Low sample size. Skill isn't afraid to correct his opinions. Tbh I expected him to change his mind as that tank should be ok for his playstyle. Not perfect but he should make it work. 

On 12/20/2019 at 4:48 PM, MagicalFlyingFox said:

I aced a stock AMX M4 45 in its first battle......

 

 

Oh and arty can suck a big fat cock. 

*incoherent politics related noises* 

 

 

I'm practically garbad. 

I pulled 2000+ DPG in a pre buff VK4502a (aah the days where bad tank camo was way more common) not using any gold and with a 1.5 skill crew. I think I will join the Spactacus like "I'm Garbad" crowd. 

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

While i dont care for all these crappy light tanks, and will prob not play much the next year or whatever this did pull my attention:

On 12/17/2019 at 5:42 AM, Diriz0n said:

 bad tanks like Tiger ll

U WOT MATE, Tiger II bad?

Its a tank for kings, not peasants, peasants can drive the tiger, real pro`s drive the King Tiger!!

ps: also, played 1 game in my shiny IS3, and IS3 still #1, so rest doesnt matter

[Fenxis 76]

On 12/25/2019 at 4:51 AM, Diriz0n said:

When it first came out, not so.

Which is when I said it. I believe he was very critical 

 

Which is why I qualified that he thinks is ok "Now". Not you are wrong he thinks it's ok nub.

[hazzgar 730]

Yeah he changed his mind after like 2 days. 

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

On 12/29/2019 at 1:48 PM, Fenxis said:

Which is why I qualified that he thinks is ok "Now". Not you are wrong he thinks it's ok nub.

Quote

 

On 12/16/2019 at 11:42 PM, Diriz0n said:

He does. But he doesn't call them good.

 

 

Well,  I am sure people mean good is better than okay. And yes, okay is better than bad. But in tier 8, lots would agree they want something better than okay, right nub? Besides the point, he goes on to continually talk about how derpy the gun is, in relation to its paper parameters vs actual performance. The whole bit on Lowe being better. He likes the platform, saying the platform tries to equal out the problems concerning the gun. Speed, VR, armour - Etc 

 

I personally love skill4 content, always have, but I have to disagree with the E75TS. I would say it is very good, because the tank is a fast heavy, it gives it a whole range of flexibility. If I had to rate T8 fast heavy tanks, excluding the ones more like meds such as FCM and AMX-Hundo, out of Patriot, Rene, E75TS, Emil1951 I would place E75 ahead of the pack.

 

 

[Fenxis 76]

On 1/4/2020 at 6:57 AM, Diriz0n said:

I personally love skill4 content, always have, but I have to disagree with the E75TS. I would say it is very good, because the tank is a fast heavy, it gives it a whole range of flexibility. If I had to rate T8 fast heavy tanks, excluding the ones more like meds such as FCM and AMX-Hundo, out of Patriot, Rene, E75TS, Emil1951 I would place E75 ahead of the pack.

IIRC Skill thinks that you need to spam gold in it and has been doing a lot better since he's done so (not unexpected I guess but the improvement has been better than most tanks)

Meanwhile apparently Orzanel thinks it's trash tier and would sell it -- but he's the king of spamming gold and snapshotting all over the place. I could see him not liking it.

Personally I think the armour isn't very good and you can butter it with T8 gold -- the only thing that scares me with it is the alpha.

I guess one advantage over Patriot/Rene/Emil1951 is that it's less map/spawn dependent so it's a more consistent tank.

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

I wish I could like Emil51 more, I really do. But it has significant drawbacks. Despite having better mobility than Emil, they didn't provide it Emil top speed. Didn't provide it Emil LFP either, it takes damage way easier. The acc + disp are pretty sad face compared to Emil, and its down 15O DPM too....No idea why it wasn't buffed in relation to Swede heavy tank re-work. In the tier....getting side armour over-matched by 12O+ sucks pretty bad, and the APCR pen just makes it seem dreadful at times.

Bump up the R0F to 5.6, give it 125 LFP, increase the accuracy to .38 and dispersion to .24/.24 and I think its solid after

[hazzgar 730]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:05 PM, Diriz0n said:

I wish I could like Emil51 more, I really do. But it has significant drawbacks. Despite having better mobility than Emil, they didn't provide it Emil top speed. Didn't provide it Emil LFP either, it takes damage way easier. The acc + disp are pretty sad face compared to Emil, and its down 15O DPM too....No idea why it wasn't buffed in relation to Swede heavy tank re-work. In the tier....getting side armour over-matched by 12O+ sucks pretty bad, and the APCR pen just makes it seem dreadful at times.

Bump up the R0F to 5.6, give it 125 LFP, increase the accuracy to .38 and dispersion to .24/.24 and I think its solid after

Disp isn't sad face compared to emil. it's slightly worse on the move but better with turret rotation. Turret rotation is the most important bloom value. ACC is worse on 51 but the aim time is better. So the guns are comparable. Please check stats before posting. 

 

Also that intraclip difference is huge. 

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

Movement dispersions are more important. Tanks need the benefit of being able to shoot on the move. 

In Emils (either one) they are particularly bad, I understand compared to something like IS3. The turret traverse bloom is poor, but given their unusually slow turret traverse it sort of passively controls their turret bloom. You see these same sort of things with vehicles like Hellcat, T34-H, VK1OOP  -  poor turret dispersion. But you don't really notice it, because these tanks are commonly firing when stopped, very near a stop, AND have very slow rotating turrets. Its when they move though, they essentially balloon like SPG. AMXM49 has the worst all over, as it has bad turret bloom with a faster tracking turret. Remember Emils also very probably have the benefit of GLD too because they are autoloaders, but the horrific movement dispersion just makes them shit out shells. 

Tanks like Skorp G, Hellcat, T34-H, VK, Charioteer, FV4K5, Conway, T57, T69 are examples in how movement dispersion just shit on tanks with bad stats in them. They simply cannot move and shoot

 

[hazzgar 730]

On 1/17/2020 at 11:22 PM, Diriz0n said:

Movement dispersions are more important. Tanks need the benefit of being able to shoot on the move. 

In Emils (either one) they are particularly bad, I understand compared to something like IS3. The turret traverse bloom is poor, but given their unusually slow turret traverse it sort of passively controls their turret bloom. You see these same sort of things with vehicles like Hellcat, T34-H, VK1OOP  -  poor turret dispersion. But you don't really notice it, because these tanks are commonly firing when stopped, very near a stop, AND have very slow rotating turrets. Its when they move though, they essentially balloon like SPG. AMXM49 has the worst all over, as it has bad turret bloom with a faster tracking turret. Remember Emils also very probably have the benefit of GLD too because they are autoloaders, but the horrific movement dispersion just makes them shit out shells. 

Tanks like Skorp G, Hellcat, T34-H, VK, Charioteer, FV4K5, Conway, T57, T69 are examples in how movement dispersion just shit on tanks with bad stats in them. They simply cannot move and shoot

 

Sorry but as usual you are wrong. Shooting on the move rarely hits anyway but turret dispersion on the low side alows you to quickly change targets. If you compare it to IS-3 then IS3 is good because of low turret bloom. 

 

Also t34 is shit. VK100p can just wait and aim. 

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

You are wrong as usual. 

IS3 is good not only because of low turret bloom, but because of good movement bloom. .2/.2 are good numbers for tier 8 heavy tanks, especially compared to tanks alongside it armed with 122mm, such as Defender, IS6, 112, 5OTP proto that have worse disp stats to contend with. VK1OOP is so slow, that it is technically always 'waiting' and 'aiming' unless it is stunned. 

Pre-buff AMX3OB had a stunning .O6 turret disp, that is like best in-class. Yet its gun handling was crippled, because of woeful .15/.15 movement disp, way off for a tier X. Same with old 43O, no where near gold standards of .1/.1 like T62A or obj 14O. It isn't because of turret rotation, it is movement disp which cripples tanks. Because any movement at all, unless the speed of Maus, throws any aim out of whack. Yes, armoured cars have great turret disp, but what makes them great are their movement disp and aim-time alongside an illegal auto aim which turns them into lasers

 

 

[Wanderjar 298]

actually movement dispersion you speak of is forward and rear movement. left and right hull movement is calculated separately.
 

3 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

it is movement disp which cripples tanks. Because any movement at all, unless the speed of Maus, throws any aim out of whack. Yes, armoured cars have great turret disp, but what makes them great are their movement disp and aim-time alongside an illegal auto aim which turns them into lasers

and it's figured in (meters per sec)/sec as a % of the total dispersion countered by equipment/crewskills and bounded by the max dispersion of the vehicle. If you want the formula or a spreadsheet for it let me know.

so if you poke using a single R its a lot more accurate than a full W movement (which the game figures as max accel even if its for 2 meters). the RU meds just typically benefit a lot more from movement disp than nato meds do, but Nato meds have better turret disp and typically better turning disp (there are some glaring exceptions though) and the playstyles reflect this as well.

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

I meant as if they were lumped together, into the word moving*  as technically traversing your tracks and rolling back/forward is displacing. Actually, may tanks also do not have pivot,  lE  IS7, so traversing also moves them forward or back too.

 

As opposed to just rotating the turret.  Very few tanks have terrible turret only dispersion, like very exclusive things such as 152 T49/Sherry

 

[Wanderjar 298]

2 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

I meant as if they were lumped together, into the word moving*  as technically traversing your tracks and rolling back/forward is displacing. Actually, may tanks also do not have pivot,  lE  IS7, so traversing also moves them forward or back too.

you did specify ,2/,2 as being good numbers and not tanks that can't pivot turn:

7 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

 .2/.2 are good numbers for tier 8 heavy tanks,

but when most people poke (I don't know how you do, I've never seen a replay) its ONLY W/S and not turning as well. And yes, .2 disp is average for heavies but who pokes in an AMX30B (.0/.12/.0) unless its himmels? or tries to do a max deflection snap shot in an Emil(.25/.25/.15)?

and at slow/er speeds movement bloom is really minimalized. 

 

[Diriz0n 1,000,043]

Compared to tonnes of T8 heavy tanks  like VK75, T34-H, VK1P, Brecher, both Emils, IS3A/5/6, 65T.....IS3s .2/.2/.O8 is a real winner

Dispersion stats do not just mean how well a tank pokes. Dispersion stats are indicators to how quickly a tank can suitably fire, in many instances. That maybe applied to poking, sure. But moreover when a tank is moving, acquires a target, and is finally ready to fire. Generally, when you are poking a target, you are applying things to *calm down* your bloom in the first place, which doesn't provide a real picture of how bad bloom may inherently be.

You are correct about the slow speeds. T95 has great disp for a TD, AND is always moving slowly, controlling its bloom. Whereas tanks like FCM, CDC, don't have particularly bad disp, but are always moving really fast, making them seem extremely derpy

 

 

 

 

 

[hazzgar 730]

On 1/20/2020 at 8:28 AM, Diriz0n said:

Compared to tonnes of T8 heavy tanks  like VK75, T34-H, VK1P, Brecher, both Emils, IS3A/5/6, 65T.....IS3s .2/.2/.O8 is a real winner

You said it yourself you care more about movement than turret dispersion. 0.2 isn't good compared to t8 heavies in that regard it's similar to them. 

 

On 1/20/2020 at 8:28 AM, Diriz0n said:

Dispersion stats do not just mean how well a tank pokes

You're wrong. Poking is all about minimizing exposure.

 

On 1/20/2020 at 8:28 AM, Diriz0n said:

T95 has great disp for a TD, AND is always moving slowly, controlling its bloom.

T95 can wait to aim + has pen + has caliber to overmatch. 

[lavawing 498]

The thing with an IS-3 is that you don't have to give a single flying fuck about single r or having your turret face the right side since you can just turn and snap. This makes the tank relaxing to play and means you have more brain cells for other, possibly more important things like reading maps and maintaining sit awareness.

Hull movement stats are not irrelevant - but they can be played around in various ways and aren't really crucial to anything that isn't a soviet hovermed/light or anything which has to constantly flex. Even on casemate tanks, good turret bloom is much more important than good hull bloom - e.g. AMX CDA.

I don't get how this discussion is related to the topic at hand and suggest you gentlemen move it to somewhere where it is more germane.

[Tarski 341]

It looks like this vehicle has been renamed to the Bat-Chat Bourrasque. 

[Tarski 341]

This tank is going to be an event (presumably marathon) reward: https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2020/02/18/bourrasque-challenge-upcoming-wot-event/

[hazzgar 730]

Of course.. Every strong med is a marathon tonk