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Colmillo206

WoT 2.0, new ammo settings, Tank's HP and old wn8?

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For the crew, there are more problems out there, for example, tier7 with 4 guys and tier8+ with 5 or 6, or some guy that are commander/radio and then commander/driver.

About the HE and HP, isnt only for low tiers, in fact, is a better system to counter glass cannons. Type4/5 are the problem? wtf? the type 5 was disgusting nerfed. And the rebalance drops a light over the obsoletes tanks like is-4/e100. Actually the only "cancerous" high tier derp is the fv4005, and even with the new HE will do more avg dmg.

In my country we have a saying: If you will be penetrated, just relax and enjoy it...

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Honestly, aren't sweeping changes like these just a ploy to make the developers look like they're busy?  Who are they aiming to please here?  New players won't know the difference between old and new mechanics, and changing up the game this way isn't likely to draw them in if they aren't already interested.  Older players that left have probably done so due to issues that have mounted up over a long period of time and have most likely moved on or at least won't trust WG to have fixed their biggest gripes to come back in any dedicated way.  Current players, satisfied enough with the status quo to keep playing, risk having what they are enjoying be upended to something alien and being sent over the edge to quit.

On 1/13/2020 at 2:08 AM, Colmillo206 said:

Any news about what will happen with the wn8 when the magapatch/megaupdate will come? All reddish will be unicum? Or we will have a new wn9 or something?

There is zero momentum behind a new player-made ranking system as far as I can tell.  Current systems have been tainted greatly by historical balance, population decline, and lack of data transparency, and every major mechanical rework WG publishes is an additional gut shot to its efficacy.  And, not only has it become practically impossible to derive a rating system out of publicly available stats, but the community doesn't seem to want one anyways.

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lmao to everyone one of you thinking WG will keep this promise. 

More so for those of you thinking they will meet a deadline of june/july, as much as they have been fucking up/delaying events, releases, patches ect.

the sandbox is mostly just a place where they throw in random changes to pretend like they care.

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10 hours ago, Kuroialty said:

There is zero momentum behind a new player-made ranking system as far as I can tell.  Current systems have been tainted greatly by historical balance, population decline, and lack of data transparency, and every major mechanical rework WG publishes is an additional gut shot to its efficacy.  And, not only has it become practically impossible to derive a rating system out of publicly available stats, but the community doesn't seem to want one anyways.

Why then this page and other like this still exists? Why the XVM (even with the anonimizer) still exists? Why are you in this page?

5 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

lmao to everyone one of you thinking WG will keep this promise. 

More so for those of you thinking they will meet a deadline of june/july, as much as they have been fucking up/delaying events, releases, patches ect.

the sandbox is mostly just a place where they throw in random changes to pretend like they care. 

Beside the events (halloween and the last cw), others stuff (the british lights line, E75 TS, 703 II, the new double cannon line) was pretty accuracy with the sandbox and supertests. Isn't a promise, they says that and all is about "what happens when it happens?". Just remember a saying from my country, who laughs last laughs better.

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3 hours ago, Colmillo206 said:

Why then this page and other like this still exists? Why the XVM (even with the anonimizer) still exists? Why are you in this page?

The thread exists because one person who doesn't understand how WN8 works decided to make a thread asking about how WN8 works, which is not something that is unusual for this forum, but happens with much less frequency as the game declines in population and the public opinion towards rating systems sours.  XVM exists because it is more than a tool for displaying rating systems.  I am here because I am passively interested in what new changes are potentially down the line for this game, but instead of learning anything significant about those, I am answering the questions of a new poster who simultaneously asks them and wonders why anyone would bother answering.

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49 minutes ago, Kuroialty said:

The thread exists because one person who doesn't understand how WN8 works decided to make a thread asking about how WN8 works, which is not something that is unusual for this forum, but happens with much less frequency as the game declines in population and the public opinion towards rating systems sours.  XVM exists because it is more than a tool for displaying rating systems.  I am here because I am passively interested in what new changes are potentially down the line for this game, but instead of learning anything significant about those, I am answering the questions of a new poster who simultaneously asks them and wonders why anyone would bother answering. 

Im not asking specifically about the thread, im asking about the wotlab page, in allusion to your comment " the community doesn't seem to want one anyways". And because the core of xvm is the rating systems, thats why im asking about the futhure of the wn8. Dont take it personal or offensive in any way, im just only asking about this subject. Like you, im interested in the potential changes, for both, the game and the wn8.

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9 hours ago, Colmillo206 said:

Im not asking specifically about the thread, im asking about the wotlab page, in allusion to your comment " the community doesn't seem to want one anyways". And because the core of xvm is the rating systems, thats why im asking about the futhure of the wn8. Dont take it personal or offensive in any way, im just only asking about this subject. Like you, im interested in the potential changes, for both, the game and the wn8.

Just as XVM is more than its ratings display, WoTLabs is more than its ratings tracking.  You will certainly still be able to find threads of people talking about the development of WN8 and WN9.  Those threads are all from 2017 and older, because everyone gave up for various reasons that you can read about from those very threads.

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HE ammunition needs some consistency. SU152 with stock dupe gun can deal 425 dmg one time, then the next deal 125. It is ridiculous, against the same target too. While I do not agree with WG planned changes, they have the right idea in mind, HE needs to be brought into line with some sort of consistency. The idea of strengthening the effects of lower bore size HE rounds, and reducing the effects of large bores is a good idea but we need better implementation. This reduces the amount of high tiers being bullies, while also reduces the general purpose spamming of large caliber HE as a crutch for people who don't want to aim but still want annoying damage. The current sandbox idea is a joke, and nothing seems to work as they intend, all they did is remove HE pens. If anything, this is the change artillery needs, not tank guns. Artillery should be the users with no pen HE rounds, so they literally splash everything only.

I do not see what the problem is though, since planned AP rounds technically serve as new HE.....AP rounds with their damage boost, basically equal HE. The only advantage HE would have, is on module shots like tracks or gun or spaced armour, AP can miss entirely whereas HE will still splash. But AP has the bonus of over match, and passing through thin spaced armour for full dmg.  We don't need HE, its more narrow envisioned purpose, such as cap reset and finishing off low HP tanks, is a better idea.

 

But whoever it was that said the game has more pressing problems, is certainly right. More maps, better maps, balanced sides in maps, +1/-1 MM,  controlling the bonds store, ammunition vs armour balance (not HE) buffing tanks that deserve it  AKA  IS4, Brit Lights.....vs not buffing tanks that do not need it, AKA obj 279E and obj 14O line. The game has lots of pressing problems, and the idea of killing derp T49 or KV2 or oi, isn't really high up there on the list

 

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On 1/21/2020 at 1:54 AM, Kuroialty said:

Who are they aiming to please here?

People are not good at making rational decisions. Same for corporations. Imho if Serb was here I'd kinda assume there is a point here since as much as an asshole he was he was an asshole with a plan. Now it's monkeys running the show

6 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

HE ammunition needs some consistency. SU152 with stock dupe gun can deal 425 dmg one time, then the next deal 125. It is ridiculous, against the same target too.

It's not the games fault you don't know how HE works. Shoot near thin armor.

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Shoot the glacis of Maus with 261 arty, and see how random your damages will be.  one shot will do zero, another will do two-hundred. It is the games fault. Watch the sirfoch game where his conway goes ham, he shoots the 14Omm side armour of Type 4 for 2O2 dmg, then moments later shoots near the same location, for O.  Wth is that? Explain it. The game mechanics explain how HE works, it doesn't explain the radically random outcomes after every single shot. The HE formula may be there to physically, tangibly read -- but it is nigh impossible to practically apply in battle. 

Besides the point, most HE guns are inaccurate, low velocity weapons that aren't good at all for aimed fire unless one-hundred yards out

 

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14 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Shoot the glacis of Maus with 261 arty, and see how random your damages will be.  one shot will do zero, another will do two-hundred. It is the games fault. Watch the sirfoch game where his conway goes ham, he shoots the 14Omm side armour of Type 4 for 2O2 dmg, then moments later shoots near the same location, for O.  Wth is that? Explain it. The game mechanics explain how HE works, it doesn't explain the radically random outcomes after every single shot. The HE formula may be there to physically, tangibly read -- but it is nigh impossible to practically apply in battle. 

Besides the point, most HE guns are inaccurate, low velocity weapons that aren't good at all for aimed fire unless one-hundred yards out

 

Again this has nothing to do with He being random and all to do with arty being random because it's inaccurate and the 0 dmg is when it strays and hits the gun and the high dmg shots are where you are close to weak armor. If you shoot He from a relatively accurate direct fire gun you would get reliable numbers. It's easily proven in training rooms. The way he damage is calculated is rather simple. 

So overall there is no problem with how HE dmg is calculate but rather that you don't always hit where you aimed. 

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On 1/22/2020 at 7:28 AM, Diriz0n said:

HE ammunition needs some consistency. SU152 with stock dupe gun can deal 425 dmg one time, then the next deal 125. It is ridiculous, against the same target too. While I do not agree with WG planned changes, they have the right idea in mind, HE needs to be brought into line with some sort of consistency.

 

Νο. Screw the pubbies that spam HE cause they're too bad playing with normal ammo. They don't need no more incentives to keep on spamming and actually be efficient. HE is fine as it is, perfect for decapping and thin armored targets. And don't give examples with arties, 261 and all other arties should do 0 dmg every single shot they fire. 

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2 hours ago, kariverson said:

261 and all other arties should do 0 dmg every single shot they fire. 

Naaah. They should do 0 dmg but take damage for every shoot plus electrocute the user 

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5 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Again this has nothing to do with He being random and all to do with arty being random because it's inaccurate and the 0 dmg is when it strays and hits the gun and the high dmg shots are where you are close to weak armor. If you shoot He from a relatively accurate direct fire gun you would get reliable numbers. It's easily proven in training rooms. The way he damage is calculated is rather simple. 

So overall there is no problem with how HE dmg is calculate but rather that you don't always hit where you aimed. 

It does have to do with it. Even with arty being inaccurate, you can clearly hit the same spot in third person shots, to a target facing you 75m away, like E-Hundo or Maus. Just aim at the glacis and see what happens. You are going to get groupings like at least 1ft, and if @ the center of the glacis that is all you need. And check out the damages

But that is just arty. HE only doing O dmg shots because of gun hits, is a myth. Sure, lots of O dmg HE splashes are from gun hits, I am not disputing that, but many shots landing O dmg actually impact the hull. Where is evidence of this everywhere. Guido12 has an old Type 5  derp video where the loathsome 1.4K dmg derp directly impacts the front of the T95  (gun does not flash as being hit) and deals 9 dmg. Probably the most common example, is lemmingrush testing it out in his *should I have used HE* series, a two part video of a russian med against VK72 on Fishermans, I could not find the HE test video, but the game is:  

Quickybaby posted a highlight reel oho video, where it features an acewanker game in the guy 1v1 a Ferdi with his dupe oho, and yes he shoots the guys roof many times. problem is, the shots range from 2OO-45O+. Yes, I agree it certainly increases dmg potential, than simply auto aiming the tank and firing straight into two-hundred plus armour, it still is random as fuck. Skill4 has a relatively recent video where he showcases VKO1P, as a somewhat good superheavy, and a SU14 literally shooting him in the side (shell hole left USH) and deals a big fat O dmg. Heck Season 11 CW, I had an Ensk obj 268V4 battle, where I hit Type 5  twice (most which use spall in CW) for zero, and certainly not the gun barrel.  I can keep going with examples, and I surely don't expect you to search on youtube to find them all, no that is dull. But if you do wish to search, there are many examples, and they aren't so easily explained by simply  *gun hits*

HE needs a very serious look through. And WG deep down, thinks the same thing, even if they act slowly. That is why there was the HE nerf 2O19. That was why they nerfed Types. That is why they tried to curb FV4K5 though they instead hurt the chassis. They also nerfed oi, oho. And what leads us to now, ongoing their Sandbox. They envision, HE should be dealing less damage, but should not be dealing O damage. Their implementation so far, well that is not working. But the idea is right on.

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

It does have to do with it. Even with arty being inaccurate, you can clearly hit the same spot in third person shots, to a target facing you 75m away, like E-Hundo or Maus.

Sorry but how the hell did you manage your 60% win rate? This is clearly untrue. Arty can't reliably hit weakspots on tanks. This means arty cant reliably hit the same part of a tank. Period. The final arty accuracy means that no, you will not be hitting the same spot with any regularity. This is not possible. Just look at how much of a given tank your recticle takes as an arty. It's a large chunk of a tank. So lol

 

17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

@ the center of the glacis that is all you need

But you don't need the center of a glacis. That's the problem. You don't know how HE works. What you want is actually far away from center since if you hit dead center you will be further away from weak armor. When shooting He shoot close to engine decks and bottom of the hull. The HE "sphere" used for calculating damage looks for weakest armor in the area. So you want to shoot close to thin armor. That is why accuracy still matters in HE if you want reliable hits. 

 

17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

HE only doing O dmg shots because of gun hits, is a myth.

 

17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Sure, lots of O dmg HE splashes are from gun hits, I am not disputing that

I mean seriously? I honestly cannot comprehend how those 2 sentences can follow each other. 

 

17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

but many shots landing O dmg actually impact the hull

Because you can hit really really thick armor. Then you get 0 dmg. Again. Nothing surprising. 

 

17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Guido12 has an old Type 5  derp video where the loathsome 1.4K dmg derp directly impacts the front of the T95  (gun does not flash as being hit) and deals 9 dmg

O wow. What a surprise hitting the thickest armor in the game produces low damage when you use amunition that calculates damage based on armor thickness. Also water is wet. 

 

17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

yes he shoots the guys roof many times. problem is, the shots range from 2OO-45O+

And all the shots land on the same part of the same tank? Also you do realize you get different damage rolls for AP rounds too? Because you kinda seem to be forgetting that.

 

17 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Type 5  twice (most which use spall in CW) for zero, and certainly not the gun barrel

Thick armor. 

 

 

Seriously man He damage variance comes from RNG affecting accuracy and damage rolls. All this is. You don't notice this on AP as much because on AP if you miss where you aimed you deal 0, in HE if you miss where you aimed you deal 200 instead of 400. Simple as that. 

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On 1/23/2020 at 9:22 AM, hazzgar said:

Again this has nothing to do with He being random and all to do with arty being random because it's inaccurate and the 0 dmg is when it strays and hits the gun and the high dmg shots are where you are close to weak armor. If you shoot He from a relatively accurate direct fire gun you would get reliable numbers. It's easily proven in training rooms. The way he damage is calculated is rather simple. 

So overall there is no problem with how HE dmg is calculate but rather that you don't always hit where you aimed. 

 

The problem lies here, in that you take everything out of context. Pretty much everything, making you very hard to converse with. 

My post clearly details that O damage shots are not only a result of shooting a gun module, which you indicate. And technically, your response agrees with it, shooting too much armour can net zero damage. And you get uptight and upset over it, albeit still agreeing with me. I am not arguing over shooting too much armour gives you low damage  (which it does)  I am just refuting your claim that getting zero damage means you shot an opponents gun, which clearly is not the case, although it is often something that happens it is not always what happens. Which you lead to, with what you said. 

 
Quote

 

  On 1/20/2020 at 2:28 AM, Diriz0n said:

Compared to tonnes of T8 heavy tanks  like VK75, T34-H, VK1P, Brecher, both Emils, IS3A/5/6, 65T.....IS3s .2/.2/.O8 is a real winner

You said it yourself you care more about movement than turret dispersion. 0.2 isn't good compared to t8 heavies in that regard it's similar to them. 

 

  On 1/20/2020 at 2:28 AM, Diriz0n said:

Dispersion stats do not just mean how well a tank pokes

You're wrong. Poking is all about minimizing exposure.

 

  On 1/20/2020 at 2:28 AM, Diriz0n said:

T95 has great disp for a TD, AND is always moving slowly, controlling its bloom.

T95 can wait to aim + has pen + has caliber to overmatch. 

 

 

Compared to? T32, Chrysler, 53TP, King Tiger, both Caernarvons, E75TS, patriot, rene, oho, FCM, WZ111, Somua.  Many of these tanks have been recently buffed, or are recent additions.  0utside of just the king tiger and T32.  Yet IS3 still comfortably keeps up with them, with a nearly unchanged self over the years.  .2/.2/.O8 are good disp stats for a heavy tank tier 8, especially one that deals 39O alpha.  And poking can mean a whole lot of things, many times exposure doesn't even matter. 

 

12 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Sorry but how the hell did you manage your 60% win rate? This is clearly untrue. Arty can't reliably hit weakspots on tanks. This means arty cant reliably hit the same part of a tank. Period. The final arty accuracy means that no, you will not be hitting the same spot with any regularity. This is not possible. Just look at how much of a given tank your recticle takes as an arty. It's a large chunk of a tank. So lol

But you don't need the center of a glacis. That's the problem. You don't know how HE works. What you want is actually far away from center since if you hit dead center you will be further away from weak armor. When shooting He shoot close to engine decks and bottom of the hull. The HE "sphere" used for calculating damage looks for weakest armor in the area. So you want to shoot close to thin armor. That is why accuracy still matters in HE if you want reliable hits. 

I mean seriously? I honestly cannot comprehend how those 2 sentences can follow each other. 

Because you can hit really really thick armor. Then you get 0 dmg. Again. Nothing surprising. 

O wow. What a surprise hitting the thickest armor in the game produces low damage when you use amunition that calculates damage based on armor thickness. Also water is wet. 

And all the shots land on the same part of the same tank? Also you do realize you get different damage rolls for AP rounds too? Because you kinda seem to be forgetting that.

Thick armor. 

Seriously man He damage variance comes from RNG affecting accuracy and damage rolls. All this is. You don't notice this on AP as much because on AP if you miss where you aimed you deal 0, in HE if you miss where you aimed you deal 200 instead of 400. Simple as that. 

 

Everything here is taken out of context. You are explaining shit to which I know is true, when all I said to begin with answering what you blurted out was zero damage HE hits don't just occur because you hit a gun module. To which you explained is the occurrence that takes place. I agree with you, hitting lower amounts of armour increases dmg dealt with HE. And technically, you are agreeing with me, whether you like it or not, with just what you have stated, that zero dmg HE rounds are not only a result of striking an opponents gun. That is it. 

By the way, 261 will sport an upgraded .53 acc @ one-hundred (m) out. Meaning at 75m, you are looking at tighter accuracy,  .4? With .4 @ 75m your shot placement, mean error deviating from plotted center, will just be over 1ft. Meaning if wildly off to the left as opposed to a prior shot to the right, the shots can be at max not even 3ft from each other. Looking at massive tanks with massive, heavily armoured glacis, such as Maus, it is easy to put your dot in the center knowing you have an overall circumference of more than 3ft, and at least 4Ocm of radius in any direction to utilize wherever the shot may land from center. 

Who told you I was 6O% W/R?  I am not, professor. I would need another 25K battles, at my current rate, to finally breach 6O% W/R  -  and given that I have only 28K battles, highly unlikely. Don't think too hard, I know alot of this theory can appear quite quantitative for you, as opposed to qualitative, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt to start. By describing things qualitatively.  

 

 

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12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

The problem lies here, in that you take everything out of context. Pretty much everything, making you very hard to converse with. 

The problem is you write like you were 5 and expect others to respond not to what you have said but what you wanted to say. 

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

My post clearly details that O damage shots are not only a result of shooting a gun module, which you indicate.

The problem is you have trouble reading. I have not said all 0dmg shots are from the gun. Hit very thick armor far away from thin armor and you get 0 dmg too. Nothing surprising. 

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

And you get uptight and upset over it, albeit still agreeing with me.

About what?

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

I am just refuting your claim that getting zero damage means you shot an opponents gun, which clearly is not the case, although it is often something that happens it is not always what happens. Which you lead to, with what you said. 

Nope. You have trouble reading. I have said in my previous post that 0dmg is not only gun hits though that's the most common cause since few tanks have thick enough armor to absorb HE. 

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

2/.2/.O8 are good disp stats for a heavy tank tier 8, especially one that deals 39O alpha. 

We had a discussion about this. Is3 works because turret dispersion is low. You said it doesn't matter because you like to be wrong. 

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

And poking can mean a whole lot of things, many times exposure doesn't even matter. 

If exposure doesn't matter this means no one is aiming at you and you are free to aim. That's rare. 

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

And technically, you are agreeing with me, whether you like it or not, with just what you have stated, that zero dmg HE rounds are not only a result of striking an opponents gun.

I'm not. Your point was waaaaaaaaaaaah cry cry 0dmg hits happen all the time and not only on gun hits. My argument is 0dmg hits are rare because while yes you can get 0dmg rolls not on gun hits (never said 0 dmg rolls are only for the gun) very few tanks have armor to make that a thing. 

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

By the way, 261 will sport an upgraded .53 acc @ one-hundred (m) out. Meaning at 75m, you are looking at tighter accuracy,  .4? With .4 @ 75m your shot placement, mean error deviating from plotted center, will just be over 1ft.

Sorry but you are delusional. Base accfor 261 is 0.57. Base acc for Kv2 is 0.43. Tell me you reliably hit weakspots with KV2 at 75m. Now you get a tank that's farther away from KV2 than KV2 is from Leopard and you tell me it reliably hits tiny areas of a tank? Especially given the relatively slow shells speeds of arty making hitting shit even harder? 

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

it is easy to put your dot in the center knowing you have an overall circumference of more than 3ft, and at least 4Ocm of radius in any direction to utilize wherever the shot may land from center. 

Uhhh you still don't get how he works. If a shot can stray 3ft that means it can either go far away from weak areas and do 100 dmg or close to weak areas and do 400. You are angry at a simple mechanic. This is why you make the stupid comparison that 0.57 base acc is good. 0.57 base acc is good for hitting a tank. 0.57 base acc is bad if you want to hit the lower 10% of the hull of a tank reliably. That is why arty shots don't get reliable damage. You basically say there is some magic bs making He unreliable and HE is unreliable for arty, because arty is inaccurate. All there is. The problem isn't that HE is unreliable but that WoT has RNG and you usually fire HE from guns that tend to be more RNG dependant. The mechanic itself isn't broken.

 

12 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Who told you I was 6O% W/R?  I am not, professor. I would need another 25K battles, at my current rate, to finally breach 6O% W/R  -  and given that I have only 28K battles, highly unlikely.

When you compared yourself to Garbad I assumed you must be at least recent purple. Your opinions sound like they came from someone light green at best but I've assumed maybe you're some savant who can play a game he doesn't understand. 

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On 1/23/2020 at 9:22 AM, hazzgar said:

Again this has nothing to do with He being random and all to do with arty being random because it's inaccurate and the 0 dmg is when it strays and hits the gun and the high dmg shots are where you are close to weak armor. If you shoot He from a relatively accurate direct fire gun you would get reliable numbers. It's easily proven in training rooms. The way he damage is calculated is rather simple. 

So overall there is no problem with how HE dmg is calculate but rather that you don't always hit where you aimed. 

It is either one of the following:  you do not read, do not care, or lie.  Regardless of what I may say, any of or combination of the former traits mean someone impossible to talk with. 

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