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Low-tier tech tree pruning and other balance patch discussion

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10 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

In the handful of games it took me to research AMX1375, I averaged 1.2K dmg in AMX12T.  I'd say decent performance.

It doesn't matter how well or badly one may perform in a tank. AMX12T clearly sucks, and trades everything it can possibly have in a soul, for merely camo, penetration, and clip damage. Less view range than peers (1O-2Om)  woefully terrible DPM  (like really, shitty Even 9O DPM)  terrible gun depression, terrible crew orientation, terrible track traverse compared to other light tanks.....even some meds making it appear like a boat. 

AMX12T sucks. Stop sniffing glue.

 

 

So a tank that has Camo, pen and a big clip sucks? L2P. Learn to adjust to a tank instead of saying it's not like other lights. With good crew you still get over 440m vr. The DPM is still above ELC Even 90, 2 tiers lower. So not a problem. 

 

Also "terrible gun depression" ??? Stop sniffing glue. The tank has -6deg. More than MT25 and 59-16. -6 is normal. Also you get 1000ms round when other tanks get 700ms rounds. 

So a good gun, on a mobile platform with great camo and u say it's bad. Stop sniffing glue plz. 

 

Saying that Panther got good buffs and Amx12t is bad is silly. AMX 12T is T4T is the best autoloader FR light.

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Yes, it does suck. You can post what you do in an AMX12T to be more constructive. And to show me what an AMX driver should aspire to. Because doing 1.2K dmg in a 12T is going beyond just purple, and you just told me to learn how to play. With a good crew, a decent player can perform well in a piece of shit like T-34-2, as well as have 445+ VR. It does not make it a good tank by any means. That is only what a bone head would argue with

1196 DPM is terrible. And 54O burst isn't game breaking. MT25 has the next DPM at 1.6K, and can even use other guns to further its DPM way above that. AMX12T doesn't have low DPM, it has abysmally low DPM, which in the case of something like Type 64 it is almost divided by 2. That is a very big problem, seriously, what did you do in your 12T? I am very curious, because you just said 1196 DPM in a tier 6 shitter is no problem, the DPM you get a tier 3.

-6 GD on a rear turret ank, with also terrible gun elevation, is terrible. 59-16 has the turret forward, so the depression doesn't bother players as much. You can 'engineer' gun depression by using your brain and terrain. Very hard to do with rear mount. MT-25, should be using either 45 or 57 anyways, and with those have -7 GD and still, and front turret. With better aim-time, dispersion, and the same lol accuracy. The horrid track traverse puts it comparable with many slow tier 6 med tank traverse. Don't even get started with how agile MT-25, T-5O-2, 59-16 are compared to it. All 12T gets, is penetration and a clip, and camo to just stay hidden while it can't spot with subpar view range. 

You clearly don't have a clue about tier 6.  And probably tiers 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,X  too

 

Panther isn't a good tank, never said it was. How about you read. I said it has received buffs, while tanks more deserving have not. In any case, panther is way better than 12T or AC46, by a huge stretch. Panther has HP to utilize, view range, penetration  (while still able to use it with actual DPM)  some armour, 2Okm reverse for a med, -8 GD,  it holds a huge stock of ammo.  You get the picture? Panther may still be very -meh- but it has good useful things, and quite a few of them. 12T has very select things, and lots of glaring faults. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Yes, it does suck. You can post what you do in an AMX12T to be more constructive. And to show me what an AMX driver should aspire to. Because doing 1.2K dmg in a 12T is going beyond just purple, and you just told me to learn how to play. With a good crew, a decent player can perform well in a piece of shit like T-34-2, as well as have 445+ VR. It does not make it a good tank by any means. That is only what a bone head would argue with

1196 DPM is terrible. And 54O burst isn't game breaking. MT25 has the next DPM at 1.6K, and can even use other guns to further its DPM way above that. AMX12T doesn't have low DPM, it has abysmally low DPM, which in the case of something like Type 64 it is almost divided by 2. That is a very big problem, seriously, what did you do in your 12T? I am very curious, because you just said 1196 DPM in a tier 6 shitter is no problem, the DPM you get a tier 3.

-6 GD on a rear turret ank, with also terrible gun elevation, is terrible. 59-16 has the turret forward, so the depression doesn't bother players as much. You can 'engineer' gun depression by using your brain and terrain. Very hard to do with rear mount. MT-25, should be using either 45 or 57 anyways, and with those have -7 GD and still, and front turret. With better aim-time, dispersion, and the same lol accuracy. The horrid track traverse puts it comparable with many slow tier 6 med tank traverse. Don't even get started with how agile MT-25, T-5O-2, 59-16 are compared to it. All 12T gets, is penetration and a clip, and camo to just stay hidden while it can't spot with subpar view range. 

You clearly don't have a clue about tier 6.  And probably tiers 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9,X  too

 

Panther isn't a good tank, never said it was. How about you read. I said it has received buffs, while tanks more deserving have not. In any case, panther is way better than 12T or AC46, by a huge stretch. Panther has HP to utilize, view range, penetration  (while still able to use it with actual DPM)  some armour, 2Okm reverse for a med, -8 GD,  it holds a huge stock of ammo.  You get the picture? Panther may still be very -meh- but it has good useful things, and quite a few of them. 12T has very select things, and lots of glaring faults. 

What you seem to miss is how terrible most tier 6s are. The 12T doesn't need to do much to be exceptional. The other tier 6 lights have 50% more DPM than the 12T...........but fire single shots and are out DPMed by everything else. 

The 12T has an 18 second downtime and a 7.5 second uptime. I don't know what game you've been playing but big alpha trading tanks have been in vogue since forever. 180/220/240 for tier 6 for example. Having a clip and gimped overall DPM is more useful than having less gimped but still poor DPM, especially on a light.

540 alpha isn't amazing but you can take out anything that isn't a TOG in two clips. And you have the pen to make it happen.

I don't know what you think the 12T is but complaining about track traverse on a tank that plays like this is...difficult to understand. 

This isn't a light tank that happens to have a clip. It's the lightest possible chassis that the French could mount a TD gun on, and it shows in game.

It's not even a difficult tank to play. You max out the gun handling, always be ready to fire gold, relocate, land two clips, sometimes more. Then you're done. 

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On 2/24/2020 at 4:50 AM, hazzgar said:

So a tank that has Camo, pen and a big clip sucks? L2P. Learn to adjust to a tank instead of saying it's not like other lights. With good crew you still get over 440m vr. The DPM is still above ELC Even 90, 2 tiers lower. So not a problem. 

 

Also "terrible gun depression" ??? Stop sniffing glue. The tank has -6deg. More than MT25 and 59-16. -6 is normal. Also you get 1000ms round when other tanks get 700ms rounds. 

So a good gun, on a mobile platform with great camo and u say it's bad. Stop sniffing glue plz. 

 

Saying that Panther got good buffs and Amx12t is bad is silly. AMX 12T is T4T is the best autoloader FR light.

I'm not disagreeing with anything else you're saying, but, friend -- 13 75 is tier for tier the best autoloader FR light. I'll fite you.

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17 hours ago, lavawing said:

What you seem to miss is how terrible most tier 6s are. The 12T doesn't need to do much to be exceptional. The other tier 6 lights have 50% more DPM than the 12T...........but fire single shots and are out DPMed by everything else. 

The 12T has an 18 second downtime and a 7.5 second uptime. I don't know what game you've been playing but big alpha trading tanks have been in vogue since forever. 180/220/240 for tier 6 for example. Having a clip and gimped overall DPM is more useful than having less gimped but still poor DPM, especially on a light.

540 alpha isn't amazing but you can take out anything that isn't a TOG in two clips. And you have the pen to make it happen.

I don't know what you think the 12T is but complaining about track traverse on a tank that plays like this is...difficult to understand. 

This isn't a light tank that happens to have a clip. It's the lightest possible chassis that the French could mount a TD gun on, and it shows in game.

It's not even a difficult tank to play. You max out the gun handling, always be ready to fire gold, relocate, land two clips, sometimes more. Then you're done. 

 

Well,  to be honest I essentially do what you said. I don't play it as a light tank at all. I shoot stuff, and play for damage, and yes aimed for 1K+.  (as you said, 2-clips)   And yes, it is very much a reality, in little to no effort with 2O2 APCR I avg 1,17O to be exact. Vents, GLD, vert stab. But the tank was not fun, not smooth, why?  Despite being a light tank, the mobility was more of a medium, and nobody wants that. Bad gun depression with a rear turret compounding it, nobody wants that. Engine forward, meaning damaged/destroyed engine is common with front hits taken. Does a light tank fucking want that? Bad end gun disp stats for light tank, more aim-time as an issue, and bad DPM that prevents you from feeding your clip to clip out shit. There are lots of clip tanks that still have some semblance of DPM. There is no reason why tanks like AMX12T, 1375, Bat Chat 12T, Even 9O should have such poor DPM, when autoloaders with actual DPM exist, as  heavy or med or light tanks alike. Even discounting overpowered Type 64, many other tier 6 tanks have 1O-2Om VR over you too, while also having radio operators. 

54O alpha and pen are nice. But why can't you have T71 DPM and mobility? Why the handicap? 

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8 hours ago, sr360 said:

I'm not disagreeing with anything else you're saying, but, friend -- 13 75 is tier for tier the best autoloader FR light. I'll fite you.

13 75 has to fight 13 57 and t71s. Also the clip isn't as scary and there are more fast tanks it can face. It also has similar camo to 12T on a tier where there is more VR.

 

12T is easymode becuase everyone is blind and you have amazing camo and a great gun. No one sees you and you can eat 90% of a -1Tier heavy in 1 clip. So I'm defending my controversial position.

Though have in mind me playing on a min setting 16-22fps macbook with bootcamp has forced me to have silly playstyles (I dont see where enemies are aiming and I have sound turned off so I get waaaay less info and I miss a lot because of the laptop). When I became #1 in the T5 ELC AMX for 2 months on EU I did it not by dmg but by being some crazy number over #2 guy. (I think 400+). Too bad I didn't play 200+ battles in it so I could see my xvm camo acc there. 

46 minutes ago, sr360 said:

Did you just say that the 13 75 and EVEN 90 are bad?

He previously said EVEN 90 needs a buff. I mean I will gladly welcome it even if the tank is over performing since I have 1500 battles in mine but yeah he is our resident nutjob. Remember when he said he's comparable to Garbad? (he's yellow/green)

6 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

But the tank was not fun,

Jesus. This is the problem with your opinions. You mistake a tank being fun with a tank being good. Amx 12t may not be fun for you but it's good. There are many fun bad tanks and the other way around. Type5 pre nerf was boring as shit but it was good. T49 is fun but far from good.

6 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Even discounting overpowered Type 64, many other tier 6 tanks have 1O-2Om VR over you too, while also having radio operators

Those tanks have way less camo. It's clear you know shit about light tanks and you only look at stats wiki/tanks.gg gives you. For Lights it's Camo > VR and overall you should look at both. If you have amazing camo you can get away with mediocre VR. 

6 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

Bad end gun disp stats for light tank, more aim-time as an issue, and bad DPM that prevents you from feeding your clip to clip out shit.

Not our fault u bad.

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7 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

 

Well,  to be honest I essentially do what you said. I don't play it as a light tank at all. I shoot stuff, and play for damage, and yes aimed for 1K+.  (as you said, 2-clips)   And yes, it is very much a reality, in little to no effort with 2O2 APCR I avg 1,17O to be exact. Vents, GLD, vert stab. But the tank was not fun, not smooth, why?  Despite being a light tank, the mobility was more of a medium, and nobody wants that. Bad gun depression with a rear turret compounding it, nobody wants that. Engine forward, meaning damaged/destroyed engine is common with front hits taken. Does a light tank fucking want that? Bad end gun disp stats for light tank, more aim-time as an issue, and bad DPM that prevents you from feeding your clip to clip out shit. There are lots of clip tanks that still have some semblance of DPM. There is no reason why tanks like AMX12T, 1375, Bat Chat 12T, Even 9O should have such poor DPM, when autoloaders with actual DPM exist, as  heavy or med or light tanks alike. Even discounting overpowered Type 64, many other tier 6 tanks have 1O-2Om VR over you too, while also having radio operators. 

54O alpha and pen are nice. But why can't you have T71 DPM and mobility? Why the handicap? 

1170 is very good for a tier 6 light. Heck, it's very good for a tier 6 anything
No one plays French tanks for their comfort.
The fact you can get that this damage in a tank that has gimped DPM shows that the paper DPM of the tank doesn't really matter when you have some of the best burst in tier.
Playing this reminded me of the 50 120 but this has camo and mobility. I don't see how this tank can be bad. Uncomfortable? Yes. One dimensional? Maybe. A tank doesnt need to be fun to be good and the 12T is pretty interesting to play IMO
You cant have T71 DPM and mobility because this is a tier 6 and tier 6s are shite. 

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34 minutes ago, lavawing said:

1170 is very good for a tier 6 light. Heck, it's very good for a tier 6 anything
No one plays French tanks for their comfort.
The fact you can get that this damage in a tank that has gimped DPM shows that the paper DPM of the tank doesn't really matter when you have some of the best burst in tier.
Playing this reminded me of the 50 120 but this has camo and mobility. I don't see how this tank can be bad. Uncomfortable? Yes. One dimensional? Maybe. A tank doesnt need to be fun to be good and the 12T is pretty interesting to play IMO
You cant have T71 DPM and mobility because this is a tier 6 and tier 6s are shite. 

The funny thing is he complains about the gun being derpy when the gun has better bloom than:

  • Skoda t25
  • Swede T6 prem autoloader
  • Cromwell

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On 2/26/2020 at 11:07 AM, lavawing said:

1170 is very good for a tier 6 light. Heck, it's very good for a tier 6 anything
No one plays French tanks for their comfort.
The fact you can get that this damage in a tank that has gimped DPM shows that the paper DPM of the tank doesn't really matter when you have some of the best burst in tier.
Playing this reminded me of the 50 120 but this has camo and mobility. I don't see how this tank can be bad. Uncomfortable? Yes. One dimensional? Maybe. A tank doesnt need to be fun to be good and the 12T is pretty interesting to play IMO
You cant have T71 DPM and mobility because this is a tier 6 and tier 6s are shite. 

50 120 has s0me arm0ur, t0 pr0tect it fr0m tier 7. It has arm0ur t0 pr0tect it fr0m HE pen. It als0 has better tier f0r tier pen than 12T, can 0ver match many c0mm0n things (hard t0 0vermatch anything with 75) has great -GD, and unlike the Even 90 0r 12T  -  as a french aut0l0ader it isn't kicked in the nuts in DPM. This makes it c0nsiderably better and m0re w0rthwhile. It gets 10m VR f0r free basically, isn't screwed 0ver by swall0wed HEAT amm0 as it gets APCR and despite all the p0wercreep in tanks, still remains the fastest m0st agile tier 9 heavy tank 0ut there. 

50 120 is a g00d tank, and many streamers agree. It 0nly has 1 flaw, 0nly 0ne - p00r arm0ur. Just because y0ur tank is an aut0l0ader, d0esn't mean it has t0 have trash DPM. L0wer DPM, sure. C0mparatively w0rse gun handling, sure. But n0t trash.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

It also has better tier for tier pen than 12T,

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Seriously. Are you insane? When meeting same and higher tier heavies 50 120 will not reliably standard pen a Mauschen outside of lower plate, will not pen Type4, will not Pen E75. Obj 705 etc etc. Amx 12T will frontally pen without gold all T6 heavies not named O-I. 

7 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

5O 12O has some armour, to protect it from tier 7. It has armour to protect it from HE pen.,

And 12T is a light that has camo to protect it from getting spotted.

 

7 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

5O 12O is a good tank, and many streamers agree. It only has 1 flaw, only one - poor armour. Just because your tank is an autoloader, doesn't mean it has to have trash DPM. Lower DPM, sure. Comparatively worse gun handling, sure. But not trash. 

U are saying 50 120 is good and amx 12t is trash. LOL. I mean seriously. And "Many streamers agree". LOL

4 hours ago, sr360 said:

Because it makes complete sense to compare a T6 light with a T9 heavy...

Shhh. That T9 heavy is better because it has more armor than a T6 light. In the same way T-54LwT is better than M6 ;) 

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It d0es have better pen tier f0r tier than 12T.  12T is n0t a heavy tank. It d0es n0t have penetrati0n like M6, VK36, T150, ARL44, 0i, KV85.  Where are y0u drawing y0ur stupid c0nclusi0ns fr0m? 12T has high pen f0r a light tank, d0esn't mean it has high heavy tank pen. 50 120 has high end tier lX heavy pen, which 0nly has it -2mm pen fr0m the highest AP  -  significantly higher than the highest pen fr0m light tanks at 232. D0 n0t y0u kn0w h0w t0 c0-relate at all? Y0u just said the stupidest stuff ever. L0wer plate is fr0ntally met, and the 0nly tank that will really challenge 257 is Type 4.  VK45PB, E75, T95, Chen, T0rt0ise, 705, 257, AE, 263 are all getting penetrated reliably with min 60% chance using 257mm pen when y0u get the chance t0 actively target fr0nt weaksp0ts. If y0u aren't using weaksp0ts, well 12T is b0uncing 0ff tanks all the time with 144 pen in tier 6 t00 s0......?

By the way, 144 pen b0unces 0ff f tanks like Pudel, BiS, ARL44 and T150 and T3485M all the time. N0t t0 menti0n AT8. 0i isn't the 0nly 0ne. And 0nly y0u br0ught up tanks like cr0mwell, strv57, Sk0da T25 - I surely didn't. Which again, y0u c0mpare light tank stats t0 light tanks. 

Actually, sirf0ch and skill4 said the 50 120 is  nice. There are links t0 th0se if y0u want. I just agree with them.

 

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On 2/28/2020 at 12:17 AM, Diriz0n said:

It d0es have better pen tier f0r tier than 12T.  12T is n0t a heavy tank. It d0es n0t have penetrati0n like M6, VK36, T150, ARL44, 0i, KV85.  Where are y0u drawing y0ur stupid c0nclusi0ns fr0m? 12T has high pen f0r a light tank, d0esn't mean it has high heavy tank pen. 50 120 has high end tier lX heavy pen, which 0nly has it -2mm pen fr0m the highest AP  -  significantly higher than the highest pen fr0m light tanks at 232. D0 n0t y0u kn0w h0w t0 c0-relate at all? Y0u just said the stupidest stuff ever. L0wer plate is fr0ntally met, and the 0nly tank that will really challenge 257 is Type 4.  VK45PB, E75, T95, Chen, T0rt0ise, 705, 257, AE, 263 are all getting penetrated reliably with min 60% chance using 257mm pen when y0u get the chance t0 actively target fr0nt weaksp0ts. If y0u aren't using weaksp0ts, well 12T is b0uncing 0ff tanks all the time with 144 pen in tier 6 t00 s0......?

By the way, 144 pen b0unces 0ff f tanks like Pudel, BiS, ARL44 and T150 and T3485M all the time. N0t t0 menti0n AT8. 0i isn't the 0nly 0ne. And 0nly y0u br0ught up tanks like cr0mwell, strv57, Sk0da T25 - I surely didn't. Which again, y0u c0mpare light tank stats t0 light tanks. 

Actually, sirf0ch and skill4 said the 50 120 is  nice. There are links t0 th0se if y0u want. I just agree with them.

 

giphy.gif

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On 2/25/2020 at 1:46 AM, Diriz0n said:

Because doing 1.2K dmg in a 12T is going beyond just purple, and you just told me to learn how to play.

Sorry I should correct myself. I should tell you to learn how to think. Because as you have stated previously you are a slightly above average player. Yet you do EXTREMELY good in an amx 12t and by your logic it's a bad tank. Highly logical. The only good tank is a t10 tank where you average 400 dpg. 

On 2/28/2020 at 12:17 AM, Diriz0n said:

It does have better pen tier for tier than 12T.  12T is not a heavy tank. It does not have penetration like M6, VK36, T15O, ARL44, oi, KV85

Dude stop drinking bleach. 12T is a light. Compare the pen to meds and lights. Also VK3601 has 1mm more pen.

On 2/28/2020 at 12:17 AM, Diriz0n said:

You just said the stupidest stuff ever.

Hard to argue with the expert on stupid

On 2/28/2020 at 12:17 AM, Diriz0n said:

VK45PB, E75, T95, Chen, Tortoise, 7O5, 257, AE, 263 are all getting penetrated reliably with min 6O% chance using 257mm pen when you get the chance to actively target front weakspots

Aaaah obviously all the tanks you mentioned drive very close to you and stop with their weakspots hanging. Yeah it happens all the time. This is obviously unrelated to your green win rate.

 

Compare that to T6 tanks where even if they hide their LFP you can easily pen their turrets or UFP. Yeah and we wonder why you suck.

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On 2/28/2020 at 12:17 AM, Diriz0n said:

By the way, 144 pen bounces off f tanks like Pudel, BiS, ARL44 and T15O and T3485M all the time.

144 pen bounces of a Pudel but 250 pen easily goes through a Tortoise and t95? I mean yeah. Drugs are bad if you think the % of pudel that bounces 144 is bigger than % of Tort/t95 that doesn't bounce 250 pen. Below u see t95 vs 50 120 gun and Pudel vs 12T Gun. Same for all the other tanks you mentioned. Poor boy, you must see colors differently.

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"Easily g0es thr0ugh a T0rt0ise"

What year are y0u playing, which client?  2014?

Have y0u seen T0rt0ise new m0del? Y0u have 1   171mm pixel, then the rest 0f the tank is minimum 273mm effective vs AP. I mean there is a reas0n y0u fucking didn't include it. 

Quote

 

hazzgar  Posted Thursday at 06:18 AM   

 Seriously. Are you insane? When meeting same and higher tier heavies 50 120 will not reliably standard pen a Mauschen outside of lower plate, will not pen Type 4, will not Pen E75. Obj 705 etc etc. Amx 12T will frontally pen without gold all T6 heavies not named O-I. 

 

image.gif

 

 

Y0u just said that. And y0u are c0ntradicting it a m0ment later? T95 has a str0nger LFP and smaller, than E75, 705A. VK45PB. The 0nly tanks 50 120 is having tr0uble penetrating in n0n strenu0us relaxed c0mbat c0nditi0ns are Type 4, T95, T0rt0ise.  0r a c0mpletely hull d0wn 0bj 263. 243~ AP is T95 l0wer plate, c0nsiderably higher than the listed and sharply increases when sh00ting d0wn 0n it  in cl0se enc0unters, making it essentially as t0ugh as Maus l0wer plate.  The cup0las are incredibly tr0ll, like Types, and sh0ts n0t dead center b0unce.  By the way, y0ur idi0tic T95 m0del is wr0ng t00, the side fr0nt plates shaped like triangles aren't hitb0xes y0u st00ge.

Y0u have a big m0uth. And still haven't listed what y0u d0 in 12T either. By all means, c0nsider. By the way, find a T X 0f mine that d0es 1 sh0t 0f dmg per game, please d0. I have said it t0nnes 0f times, I have 1 T X n0t 3K+, and that 0ne is am0ng the w0rsst T Xs and it still is a st0ne thr0w away t00. Slightly ab0ve avg. Y0u are full 0f it. 

144pen b0unces 0ff T3485M all the time. Y0ur picture sh0ws aut0 ric0chet angles 0n the turret, a drivers sp0t that is like 175+, and a gun mantlet that is a t0ss up. Pe0ple w0uldn't c0mplain ab0ut T3485M s0 much if 144 pen tanks actually penetrate it c0nsistently, like cr0mwells. But they d0 n0t. 

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11 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

"Easily goes through a Tortoise"

What year are you playing, which client?  2O14?

Have you seen Tortoise new model? You have 1   171mm pixel, then the rest of the tank is minimum 273mm effective vs AP. I mean there is a reason you fucking didn't include it. 

Are you mentally challenged? You said Tortoise is easy to pen, not me. I've said the opposite. That T9 has more tanks that are hard to pen for 50 120 than t6 has for 12T. Tortoise being one example

 

11 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

By the way, your idiotic T95 model is wrong too, the side front plates shaped like triangles aren't hitboxes you stooge.

It's tanks gg, a portal you yourself have quoted here.

11 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

And you are contradicting it a moment later? T95 has a stronger LFP and smaller, than E75, 7O5A. VK45PB. The only tanks 5O 12O is having trouble penetrating in non strenuous relaxed combat conditions are Type 4, T95, Tortoise.  or a completely hull down obj 263. 243~ AP is T95 lower plate

Lol nope. I've also mentioned that 705, e75, VK will have smaller areas they can be penned by 50 120 than the tanks you quoted vs 12T. So your argument doesn't work. 705 hides its lower plate and standard ammo from 50 120 does shit. T-150 hides its lower plate and it still is pennable, the other ones all all green. Please tell me which of the T9 tanks you mentioned is as green as the pudel/t34-85m/bis vs 144 pen. 

 

11 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

You have a big mouth. And still haven't listed what you do in 12T either.

1100 dpg + 600-700 spots per game (roamed the acc, sold it to someone, so I'm speaking from memory). But it's funny you want to boast about your super high 1170 (not 1200) dpg when it's over 7 games. LOL. Then yeah lol I'm a Jpze100 pro since I had 5500 dpg for 6 games. 

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30 minutes ago, sr360 said:

What are we talking about again?

I'm killing time by arguing with gibberish but basically our forum clown claimed 50 120 has less problems penning e75, VKB, 257, 705, Tort, T95 than Amx 12 has with T150, ARL 44, P43Bis, t34-85m.

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I think we need to take a moment to appreciate the absolutely radical, extreme reverse-powercreep that we are witnessing with the KV-1S.

First it was hiding in the shadow of its absolutely terrifying, crushing, monstrously powerful counterpart; the tier 6 KV-3

Then the KV-3 got moved up a tier, and the KV-1S stood shoulder to shoulder with the M18 Hellcat as being one of the most overpowered tanks in the entire game, a tier 7.5 medium masquerading as a tier 6 heavy.

Then it was booted down to tier 5 where it has been resting as a completely solid, competent but balanced tier 5 heavy.

Now its getting booted back up to being a tier 6 heavy and its absolutely horrendous. Easily the worst tier 6 heavy in the game. All the Wehraboos are whining about how bad the VK. 30.01P is going to be rebranded as a tier 6 heavy; its still going to be way better than this. Its like if you took an M6 heavy and.... made practically everything worse. Its armor only works against tier 4 mediums and the gun would be unimpressive even on a tier 5 heavy. Its so bad its actually funny.

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The branch changes are like an assignment started the night before the due date, a lot of the swapped tanks are horrendous. What do they even do all day at WG? I could have done this tech tree rework alone in a few months and it would be more coherent.

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Am still trying to wrap my head around the T54E1 switch to a heavy without any changes in the stats or modules and am not really caring about the de facto nerf to one of the longest-times most-OP vehicles in the game and it's decline. It's a russian heavy. How long do you think it will stay being shit? My bet is on less than a month.

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13 minutes ago, Ezz said:

Suspect they'll 'fix'it or release.

I'm suspect that too, otherwise these changes are going to make some of the worst vehicles in the game. Like the crusader which goes from being a tier 5 medium (formally a tier 5 light) to an awful tier 6 light and gains absolutely jack shit. Seriously 230 health, 5km/h more top speed, about 5deg/s more traverse and 0.02 better hull dispersion. Pen, dpm, module health, ground resistances and just about everything else remains the same.

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