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27 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Don't ruin the thread.

 

Anyway, as an example of terrible camping winning games at higher tiers - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EiShUpc_pk&t=0s

^ That team gives up the entire map pretty much, but still win, I find situations like this are too common, sure the EBR lit everyone up but its still a decent example of higher tier situations I have been struggling with, curbing that natural inclination to attack, finding routes to spot etc. 

I'd say that falls into the "how to maximise a steamroll on the losing side" category, as the only way that ended up being a win was because of how broken the EBR is when played by someone who isn't braindead. The team was so retarded I don't think there's much learnings that can be drawn from that (assuming you're playing a normal tank and not a clown car), beyond farm what you can before dying. 

Maybe also falls into my suggested category - "Tier 10 MM, WTF - what is the meta and how do you play consistently without driving yourself insane".

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You posted it there. I don't edit peoples posts. I tend to my own. 
 

1)  As for the orzanel replay, it highlights a large problem snore listed. The tiers 8, 9, X  EBRs are too powerful. Anyone can do that, it does not take any measure of skill. He drives around in loops for 7 solid minutes. Granted, they cannot do the same on maps like Himmels or Ensk, they are still probably better off than real bad light tanks such as manticore or panzer wagon, just because of their tire resilience and shot traps, inability to be immobilized, auto-lock feature, high pen HE, and speed to get places first. 

2)   He nailed the part about maximizing your efforts for results, out of a game that seems like a loss at the start because of the team's lethargy, positioning, passiveness, and fear.  orzanel was just fortunate enough to be in an EBR. The battle would have had high chance of failure and/or poor performance if he was in another light tank. Every seem those lemmingrush battles where he talks 1/3rd of the game going on about terrible positioning (his teams positioning) and drives into the rear/camos up/hulldowns to use his team as distractions to garner some damage? it is damage control, in a losing effort, squeezing the orange dry to get something, anything. 

3)   Another problem is clear here, and it happens alot in maps like these,  murovanka, malinovka, prokh.....are the massive forests. It promotes camping by  bad players, as they just leap on the opportunity to sit bushed up and not do anything, and basically be spoon fed something.....anything. And as Skill4 clearly says, they are fucking pigeons. Certain 1-dimensional tanks also promote this, like Strv.   in NA, it is not uncommon, to see powerful clans like Yolo, Mahou, or G, lose battles in SH, to complete shitter clans with lots of legionaries too - because they got a map like Steppes or mountain pass or fjords,  and literally sat in their fucking densely forested backline right at cap. 



 

When I was last attempting to 3-mark T95E2 recruitment tank  -  I dreaded these games the most. These were the games, everything had to be raw damage. Instead of drinking fruit punch cool aid and grabbing 2.5K combined and everything didn't rest on your shoulders alone.....you find yourself worrying every moment are you even going to get 2K dmg and get close to remotely breaking even, and not dropping a heft%. Your team wouldn't fight for positions, wouldn't want high ground, would jumble up in a fucking corner and await oncoming doom. I could not count on a cent of assist to help. And this was the time of 3/5/7 for tier 8s too,  is was God awful.

Needless to say,  orzie was lucky he was in that AC

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1) What the actual fuck is going on above.

 

 

2) What should I be doing in tanks that I am grinding that are just objectively shit in almost everything they do? Am I supposed to play them with the mentality that I am the bottom tier every game? This is for tanks like the TVP VTU, Mauschen and other shit that are so out of meta they are in an entirely different game. 

 

Feel free to answer both. Its kinda hard to think of some questions that aren't centred solely around the ASIA meta :(

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On 3/3/2020 at 7:41 AM, MagicalFlyingFox said:

Mauschen and other shit

Can you explain to me, why Mauschen is bad and people think VK01P and Maus are fine?  It isn't just you, I am really curious, have heard it many times before. And from streamers too. They get to tier 8, say the VK01P is a fine tank,  then get to tier 9 and the '''Chen is a complete dumpster fire,  and then finally at Maus and it is fine again?  I seem to be very lost, I think of them all as the same tanks, scaled up  -  with the small difference VK01P doesn't have their their gun handling or accuracy and its turret is centered, not in a rear mount. 

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Because the Mauschen is a giant cardboard box with a tank sized turret face that is pennable by standard rounds while the VK100.01P has a much smaller turret that isnt a flat cardboard box and also sees lower tier tanks.

Basically the entire turret of a mauschen is a weakspot to standard rounds at any angle and range so if you can be seen you can be penned. The VKP doesnt have such a weakspot and tanks of the same tier will struggle to go through the thickness and curves. 

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2 hours ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

2) What should I be doing in tanks that I am grinding that are just objectively shit in almost everything they do? Am I supposed to play them with the mentality that I am the bottom tier every game? This is for tanks like the TVP VTU, Mauschen and other shit that are so out of meta they are in an entirely different game. 

I got through the Mauschen by only playing when it was x3 or better for the first victory, and using the premium boost on that. It meant that I only had to play 59 games in it. Probably doesn't really answer your question.

I did get some good games in it and Ace'd it, but it was very situational.

Still not bought the Maus despite researching it - it holds no real appeal tbh.

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21 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Don't ruin the thread.

 

Anyway, as an example of terrible camping winning games at higher tiers - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EiShUpc_pk&t=0s

^ That team gives up the entire map pretty much, but still win, I find situations like this are too common, sure the EBR lit everyone up but its still a decent example of higher tier situations I have been struggling with, curbing that natural inclination to attack, finding routes to spot etc. 

It happens all the time now. I can't adjust to it but yeah I guess my shit tier laptop playing with no sound and not seeing if others have shot or aimed at me kinda kills me there too.

 

Ironically because turtling in one part of the map works passive scouts work once again. ELC EVEN can do a lot now. 

19 hours ago, Diriz0n said:

As f0r the 0rzanel replay, it highlights a large pr0blem sn0re listed. The tiers 8, 9, X  EBRs are t00 p0werful. Any0ne can d0 that, it d0es n0t take any measure 0f skill. He drives ar0und in l00ps f0r 7 s0lid minutes

U do realize he could do the same in a t100lt. His extreme mobility didn't really help him that much there. Games like that happened for years on that map. EBR's are broken but this game is just typical light play.

 

 

PS. Mods? Can we Ban Dirizon? I get that he keeps the discussion alive and I'm guilty of engaging him but this is a new low. He took the whole thread off topic because he has a beef with Kolni for calling him out on him thinking he Garbad V2.

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On 2/26/2020 at 9:00 PM, Snoregasm2 said:

How to deal with the current tier 10 MM (4 or 5 OP tanks (430U, 907, Chief, 277, Ebola), 3 or 4 high alpha TDs (4005, 183, 268v4) and 2 or 3 arty. And it's all tier 10, no 9s or 8s.

I honestly can't stand it right now, and I think the meta is just camp hard and be patient, which I struggle to do coming from playing enjoyable games at tiers 8 and 9. 

Is the meta completely different at tier 10? How do you play it postively/aggressively? Or can't you?

Not sure how you will write about this as there are so many different situations, but it could be in the mindset/decision making/tryhard category.

 

On 2/26/2020 at 11:36 PM, Private_Miros said:

Keeping your gun in the game and your HP pool out of it until its needed.

 

I'll be writing these two up today! Maybe not finish but they're topics at least. 

 

I'll do one more, later so just keeping shooting suggestions

 

edit: i didn't know it was culturally appropriate to be drunk on a tuesday, i do now

tomorrow then

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snoregasm's topic posted, didn't quite hit the mark i feel like but i'm too medicated to make more coherent thoughts and conclusions right now anyway

i'll try and miros' tomorrow and depending on how my weekend looks i might just have time to finish the third that i haven't decided yet

 

also stop the bickering or i'm logging onto enrohs account and IP banning you both for good

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7 hours ago, kolni said:

also stop the bickering or i'm logging onto enrohs account and IP banning you both for good

No need, I'm here and will crack the whip. I'm also hiding all irrelevant posts in this topic.

Putting on my mod hat now.

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On 3/3/2020 at 7:41 AM, MagicalFlyingFox said:

2) What should I be doing in tanks that I am grinding that are just objectively shit in almost everything they do? Am I supposed to play them with the mentality that I am the bottom tier every game? This is for tanks like the TVP VTU, Mauschen and other shit that are so out of meta they are in an entirely different game. 

Maybe not enough material for a topic but I can answer it regardless!

Playing a new tank for the first time: (Keeping it broad here because it honestly applies to the good too, more on the bad specifically later)

Limit-test the tank the first few games, always. You want to learn it's qualities good and bad as soon as possible. Better understanding of the tank means an easier time making correct decisions. Limit-testing doesn't mean yolo in and brawl, but examining characteristics in theory and putting them into practice. Soft stats are a big deal for example. External factors too. An example would be the T57, just by looking at the stats of it - it's ridiculously strong. An autoloader with higher DPM than most single shooters of the tier is just a ridiculous concept. Concentrating much of it's DPM into a few seconds of firing while the DPM being higher than continuously firing tanks is just mind-blowingly stupid balance in my eyes. However, once you play it you realise that it's not actually the case. It's super well balanced for a tier 10. The hidden autoloader focus stat for example is very known but rarely taken into consideration when actually estimating a tanks capabilities. This is just one example, but it's just for trying to establish the value of physically testing what the tank in question is capable of doing. 

Having done this, you should have a sense of what areas suit your vehicle on the specific map and MM. If you feel strong in regards to MM and map you can be more forgiving as to how you approach the situation as you generally tend to be advantaged there. Without an advantage to leverage you generally won't win out on the situation, so you need to find ways to remain relevant. Equal isn't good enough. Shoot for good terms. 1:1 trading is bad for example, 2:1 trading is better but still not good enough. r/koreanadvice incoming but you want to create situations where your generally poor choice of vehicles traits fit well with the situation ahead of you. A concrete example would be me 3marking the ISU-130. I don't have the VOD anymore for visuals but that's a tank with very specific traits that make for an awkward playstyle. I wouldn't consider it bad, just very weird. I don't think I need to explain how stupidly ridiculous the specs of that tank are as it must've been made as a dev joke. What to do with that type trait combination is to create situations where it works. The ISU130 required a 3300 average for a 3mark, as a tier 8 tank unable to pen half the tanks it's facing frontally and ridiculously slow there weren't exactly many options. Eventually I figured it out though. Every tank has at least some redeeming quality to it. For horrible platforms it usually tends to be the guns, which it was in this case (sort of). 530 alpha is high at tier 8, and the DPM is ridiculous. So I determined that to keep this level of performance in the most awkward tank in the game I simply had to predict and read the game in a way so I could be in places to shoot the stuff I could actually pen, since half the enemy team was immune to any of my rounds if they faced me. I needed a very specific condition to be met every game for the tank to work, which was fighting easy pens and rotating ahead of time to keep up when damage either ran out or I had to fall back. Foresight became a much bigger part of the game, and it's an asset I still try to nurture. More specifically I had to identify what tanks would go where depending on the MM and where the tanks I could actually fight would go, and how to fight them there in a good way. It's a very specific condition, but in that condition the tank is unparalleled in damage output. Suddenly it wasn't a bad tank anymore, just awkward. 

I think the same applies to the bottom of shoe stuff too, besides the IS-4 I can't think of a single tank without a leveragable strength. As a strong tank the better strategy tends to be mitigating weakness and it's the other way around  for weak tanks. There's too many weaknesses to try and cover so stick to what the tank does well. Even when that ability is essentially useless to your team it's generally your best quality anyway when you play the really shitty stuff.

Start off with what is your tank good at? How do create a scenario to let you do just that? And that's honestly the trick to it. It's a pretty tough nut to crack though, but when your ability to impact the game is reduced (shittier tank) you're going to have to rely on unconventional playstyles since the normal is what the meta players do, and they've got your number. This means tailoring your deployment, positioning, trading patterns and so on specifically to the tank you're playing. Unlike say, every single NATO medium that you could play identically with fairly similar results over a large amount of games, or basically anything russian and turreted that all can make the same decisions regardless of their specific tank choice. Every tank isn't unique, but the shitty ones tend to be more so than not, so they require a tailored playstyle to work. You can't think "I am a heavy tank, I will do heavy tank things". You have to do the "I am this tank, I will do this tank things" 

Some tanks are just lesser versions of other tanks though, so they lack identity. If they have no role to slot in to, or a decent collection of attributes it's just not possible to justify playing those tanks competitively as they literally cannot compete. Trying to be viable in them might be your undoing, there are times where you simply have to settle for less. I'd be fine with it in those tanks to be honest because I know I can play at a particular level, but when a tank is literally capping my ability to impact the game there is nothing I can do about that. No amount of grinding or skill  is somehow going to fix that the TVP VTU is a dogpile of shit as long as there are tanks within its tier that does everything better. Just picking it loading into battle is essentially shooting yourself in the foot competitively. 

It's obviously a result of terrible balancing as every tank should be viable in at least some scenarios, but sadly they aren't. What you can do is damage control, but short of that the grind just sucks and you have to suck it up. Some tanks simply don't enable your skill expression enough to show itself.

miros' topic on hold  until tomorrow because i forgot to go to bed tonight

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OK I have had a lot of personal shit going on in my life and I heard about this. Good to see @sr360 has a handle on things. 

Last chance saloon for @Diriz0n and I will perma-ban you. I am sick to the teeth of looking at complaints about you. DO NOT bother trying to explain yourself because like a 5 yr old who does not understand, you do not and will not listen.

One more shit post from you and you are done.

Reply to this? Done.

Complain about this or me? Done.

In other words, sit down and shut up or put down and piss off. You will not be missed.

Everyone else, please stop baiting and feeding the troll. 

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4 hours ago, kolni said:

besides the IS-4 I can't think of a single tank without a leveragable strength

Optics then RRR into enemy team, there's a good % chance they bounce at least once KEKW

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6 hours ago, kolni said:

besides the IS-4 I can't think of a single tank without a leveragable strength

Post Nerf type5? T110e5? 

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On 3/2/2020 at 2:44 PM, Snoregasm2 said:

I'd say that falls into the "how to maximise a steamroll on the losing side" category, as the only way that ended up being a win was because of how broken the EBR is when played by someone who isn't braindead. The team was so retarded I don't think there's much learnings that can be drawn from that (assuming you're playing a normal tank and not a clown car), beyond farm what you can before dying. 

Maybe also falls into my suggested category - "Tier 10 MM, WTF - what is the meta and how do you play consistently without driving yourself insane".

I'm pretty sure any light could have done it, he doesn't really do much with the EBR mobility but drive ridges, which any light could have done and would have probably spotted out further.

It's more that his entire team sits in a forest, gives up map control and loses very little for it because everyone approaching them does not have the same concealment. 

Since the 1.0 changes the bushes are broken IMO, camo and view range becomes irrelevant if there is an HD bush (that is working) becomes involved. Some clan mates tested it on the balcony of Airfield with a sh*tbarn with 50% crew against a 6 skill Bat Chat fully pimped for view range. 

Sh*tbarn has the worst camo in the camo, coupled with a blind crew, no equipment etc. But it outspotted the Bat Chat with ease.

I feel previously in old Prohk teams that did that, A LOT of those people firing from back there would have got lit up more easily and got wrecked, by the magic bushes hide almost anyone these days. 

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16 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Since the 1.0 changes the bushes are broken IMO, camo and view range becomes irrelevant if there is an HD bush (that is working) becomes involved. Some clan mates tested it on the balcony of Airfield with a sh*tbarn with 50% crew against a 6 skill Bat Chat fully pimped for view range. 

 

Yes,  not the camo skill itself, but rather the 'camo' property, of being behind certain bushes.  Seems broke as fuck, KV2s hiding and shit. I have been saying for a long time now, view range doesn't really counter enemies professionally staying hidden in dense brush, rather than relying on camo skill itself.

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22 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I'm pretty sure any light could have done it, he doesn't really do much with the EBR mobility but drive ridges, which any light could have done and would have probably spotted out further.

It's more that his entire team sits in a forest, gives up map control and loses very little for it because everyone approaching them does not have the same concealment. 

Since the 1.0 changes the bushes are broken IMO, camo and view range becomes irrelevant if there is an HD bush (that is working) becomes involved. Some clan mates tested it on the balcony of Airfield with a sh*tbarn with 50% crew against a 6 skill Bat Chat fully pimped for view range. 

Sh*tbarn has the worst camo in the camo, coupled with a blind crew, no equipment etc. But it outspotted the Bat Chat with ease.

I feel previously in old Prohk teams that did that, A LOT of those people firing from back there would have got lit up more easily and got wrecked, by the magic bushes hide almost anyone these days. 

There is a reason I use binocs on some lights. Only way to burn through the bushes. ELC EVEN 90 With binocs kinda works good post hd because it can get close and then use 520m vr binocs where it itself isn't spoted in the open until it gets sub 200m.

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On 2/26/2020 at 11:36 PM, Private_Miros said:

Keeping your gun in the game and your HP pool out of it until its needed.

ima be honest, this is one heckin tricky thing to explain, spent maybe 3 hours trying to formulate how i do it and got nowhere :feelsbad: 

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11 minutes ago, kolni said:

ima be honest, this is one heckin tricky thing to explain, spent maybe 3 hours trying to formulate how i do it and got nowhere :feelsbad: 

I know, it's part of developing the instinct that makes one a good players (and that I lost completely in the current meta).

It might be easier to work from a few examples, maps or scenarios, which you try to deduce into a few general approaches?

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58 minutes ago, kolni said:

ima be honest, this is one heckin tricky thing to explain, spent maybe 3 hours trying to formulate how i do it and got nowhere :feelsbad: 

It kinda became more difficult than 3-4 years ago where aggression wasn't as risky because games were slower. Now no position or move is safe. I used to retain a lot more of my hp .

 

btw. Kolni - you still on XVM camo or is there a chance you be posting replays?

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1 hour ago, Private_Miros said:

I know, it's part of developing the instinct that makes one a good players (and that I lost completely in the current meta).

It might be easier to work from a few examples, maps or scenarios, which you try to deduce into a few general approaches?

I'll figure it out I think eventually, it's a very fluid process to me which makes it hard to separate into comprehensible pieces. The work I ended up with made sense to me but I don't think very many people would understand it so I wound up scrapping it.

1 hour ago, hazzgar said:

btw. Kolni - you still on XVM camo or is there a chance you be posting replays?

nah i play on yung_xd mostly which is a shared account, but i'm having more and more fun with league instead so i tend to simply just play league instead whenever i feel like gaming atm

unlikely i'll be posting anything in the near future

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2 hours ago, kolni said:

nah i play on yung_xd mostly which is a shared account, but i'm having more and more fun with league instead so i tend to simply just play league instead whenever i feel like gaming atm

unlikely i'll be posting anything in the near future

Any top EU players stream or post yt vids in a Kolni drought? Decha doesn't play anymore If I remember right. Shish features only top replays from Superunis, same for Alphaz plus he has some personal/heath issues if I remember right. Preferably someone not speaking some gibberish language (I include my own since I hate hearing Polish language)

 

 

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jaeckefa is op

stanlock is still probably the best streamer out there gameplay wise that still plays regularly

barry and niall have really good gameplay too, they play super different from me so it's always refreshing for me to view because i actually learn stuff pretty reliably

FeLi is also super good, the only player to legitimately 3mark a 279 as far as I can remember.but I think he started getting really good during my hiatus so I only knew him from the GO-IN campaign where we were the 2 BC players normally. He was by far the better one haha

id say thats the 5 streams i tune into the most when i want to watch good players do good things

 

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3 hours ago, kolni said:

barry and niall have really good gameplay too, they play super different from me so it's always refreshing for me to view because i actually learn stuff pretty reliably

I'd 2nd this. Barry has kind of stopped as he is waiting for FL credits, but he plans to 3 mark Chieft after next week, which will be a good watch. Both Barry and Niall actually explain what they are doing, unlike someone like Decha, and as Kolni says they both play fairly uniquely (Niall goes for a lot of snipes early, but can still play aggro, Barry relies on being reactive a lot, but makes it work really well). Neither of them are super aggressive, so they're good to learn from in this meta where too much aggression = death.

Decha is good when he streams, but 1. He is silent, so no tips; 2. He tilts a lot/doesn't give a shit about the game, so isn't 'try-harding'; and 3. He tries really aggressive shit, because he is insanely skilled and can make it work half the time, but it's bad to learn from as mere mortals have 0 chance replicating his gameplay.He's the ultimate 10k dmg look easy kind of player.

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