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Corona Virus vs WotLabs Community Megathread

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9 minutes ago, MetGreDKo said:

In 2015 WHO started moving away from naming things based off regions to avoid stigmatising those regions. In this case Trump was not the first one to use Wuhan or China to name this thing. It also didn't have a political tone of even keeping China accountable. Simply put a name or phrase is easier for people to remember than an abbreviation and a number. SARS is COVID-2. What about COVID-3, 4, 5 and so on? It's easy to get them mixed up and frankly, there have already been times where I got 19 mixed up thinking it was 18. I haven't forgotten it started in Wuhan however. I also don't forget or mix up Spanish Flu, Tanapox, West Nile Virus and so on.

Exactly.  Such common names are memorable; it's how people remember things.

 

Also, apparently this thing is SARS as well.  The virus is a coronavirus, the condition it causes is a type of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome.  But we tend to think of SARS as one specific outbreak a while back.

Colorful, plain-language names are easier for people to remember.

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1 hour ago, MetGreDKo said:

In 2015 WHO started moving away from naming things based off regions to avoid stigmatising those regions. In this case Trump was not the first one to use Wuhan or China to name this thing. It also didn't have a political tone of even keeping China accountable. Simply put a name or phrase is easier for people to remember than an abbreviation and a number. SARS is COVID-2. What about COVID-3, 4, 5 and so on? It's easy to get them mixed up and frankly, there have already been times where I got 19 mixed up thinking it was 18. I haven't forgotten it started in Wuhan however. I also don't forget or mix up Spanish Flu, Tanapox, West Nile Virus and so on.

Trump was quite clear that his use of "Chinese Virus" was because China is responsible. Whether or not the WHO changed their naming convention, does not alleviate the fact that the international community is not confronting China as they should be. Call it unity in a time of crisis but why on Earth is the modern world defending an authoritarian regime in the 21st century, especially one who's ineptitude has just lead to the loss of millions of jobs globally?

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1 hour ago, Ham_ said:

Trump was quite clear that his use of "Chinese Virus" was because China is responsible. Whether or not the WHO changed their naming convention, does not alleviate the fact that the international community is not confronting China as they should be. Call it unity in a time of crisis but why on Earth is the modern world defending an authoritarian regime in the 21st century, especially one who's ineptitude has just lead to the loss of millions of jobs globally?

I should have been more clear I was speaking of its first use didn't have a political tone or message associated with it but was merely a specific reference to the virus and its place of origin. Political reasons came about later but also isn't from everyone that refers to it in such a manner.

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1 hour ago, Ham_ said:

Trump was quite clear that his use of "Chinese Virus" was because China is responsible. Whether or not the WHO changed their naming convention, does not alleviate the fact that the international community is not confronting China as they should be. Call it unity in a time of crisis but why on Earth is the modern world defending an authoritarian regime in the 21st century, especially one who's ineptitude has just lead to the loss of millions of jobs globally?

 

28 minutes ago, MetGreDKo said:

I should have been more clear I was speaking of its first use didn't have a political tone or message associated with it but was merely a specific reference to the virus and its place of origin. Political reasons came about later but also isn't from everyone that refers to it in such a manner.

Agreed.  The original use of terms like "Wuhan virus" was just from the common tendency to use a location that the disease is associated with because of it being the source or location of the first notable outbreak.  Terms like "Kung flu" are just dark humor intended to lighten a potentially grim situation.  Neither is meant to mock Chinese people.

It has gained a later political connotation, whether to hold the CCP accountable, or just to tell the just-add-water instant politically correct demand to stop using those common names of the virus, but I don't think those are the most common source of their continuing usage.  People just like their common terms rather than technical terms most of the time.

On to more serious matters, in terms of potential good news I'm hearing people question whether the virus might already have been more widespread than we thought - possibly for more than a month.  That would seem to me to imply that the fatality rate of the disease is nothing like as high as we feared, and that we're seeing an uncomfortable number of deaths due to virulence rather than a high mortality rate.

If that's the case, we might be closer to achieving herd immunity than we had feared, but then it seems to me we're still very early in the data-gathering stage for questions like that.  We can't really know until tests become common enough to just start testing people at random in large sample sizes.

Anybody know what the rough estimate is these days for what percentage of a population has to have immunity to a disease before those who aren't or can't become immune start seeing a large beneficial effect in terms of reduced exposure?

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9 hours ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

So what would we call Ebola and HIV/AIDS?

IIRC Ebola is the place in Africa where the virus was first noticed.

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1 hour ago, simba90 said:

IIRC Ebola is the place in Africa where the virus was first noticed.

Yes, which is completely in line with the old naming convention. To name the virus typically after the location where it is first identified (which is usually the place where it first makes the jump to humans).

There are actually 4 known strains of the ebola virus. All of them are named after their areas of first outbreak - Bundibugyo (a town in Uganda where it was first discovered), Sudan, Tai Forest (a national park in Ivory Coast where again, first discovered) and Zaire Ebola virus (Zaire is now Congo, where Ebola was discovered for the first time). As Florb noted, Ebola is a river in the country that was in the region where it was first discovered.

Ebola itself is closely related to the Marburg Virus. Guess what that is named after.

They are both hemorrhagic fevers.

It's not rocket science. People have been naming viruses like this for a very long time before the WHO decided to get all politically correct. Yes, people are going to politicise the naming of viruses in this day and age, but let's not assume everyone using these older style naming conventions (and "Wuhan Virus" is what people called it, including in scientific communities, before the WHO gave it it's official scientific name) is being political about it.

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3 hours ago, FlorbFnarb said:

On to more serious matters, in terms of potential good news I'm hearing people question whether the virus might already have been more widespread than we thought - possibly for more than a month.  That would seem to me to imply that the fatality rate of the disease is nothing like as high as we feared, and that we're seeing an uncomfortable number of deaths due to virulence rather than a high mortality rate.

The keys will be around testing for those with immunity. It's possible a similar strain with lower morality went around. But that will do little good if no immunity is generated from exposure to that earlier less deadly strain.

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We shouldn't forget China's role in creating (the conditions for) and surpressing the existance of the virus but at the same time still criticise governments for not taking action when we saw this coming in late January. 

Remain vigilant though because China has been trying to shift blame to America because they have no shame. 

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I've not payed much attention to blame casting, but as you note, with all the forewarning provided it's almost a case of willful negligence not to have taken stronger measures sooner. When leaders come out with their toxically positive statements it just further digs their hole.

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30 minutes ago, Ezz said:

The keys will be around testing for those with immunity. It's possible a similar strain with lower morality went around. But that will do little good if no immunity is generated from exposure to that earlier less deadly strain.

True, although it seems like that would be a big coincidence to have two strains of coronvirus going all over the globe at the same time, but then I'm not a doctor.

12 minutes ago, simba90 said:

https://imgur.com/gallery/CBPHDwP

I've not looked to see if this is posted yet, apologies if it has.

lol

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For fuck's sake, guys, he calling it the Cat Eater Ching Ching Bing Bong virus because it's the usual deflection bullshit. Americans have so lost their mind that all any one has to do is say "political correctness" and it immediately divides people back into their camps and smothers any real discussion of the specific problem. Who fucking cares what it's called? They want you to hold China responsible because they didn't take it seriously either. They still aren't.

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lol

Political tribalism is of course one of our biggest problems.  But for all The Orange One's flaws, I have to admit he didn't pick this particular fight; everybody just woke up one day and found the media telling us all we can't call it the Wuhan virus for some mysterious reason, despite them having done so themselves for months.

China didn't take it seriously, and neither did Trump at first, although he seems to be doing so now.

But you're right that the virus itself is the issue at hand.

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Changing the name of a virus when it is already known globally, to be apolitical, is on the contrary very political. 

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It's called what it is because it's a name that actually describes the virus on the molecular level, the disease it causes, and 19 stands for 2019. Science doesn't just pull naming conventions out of its ass, they follow certain guidelines because people need to be able to understand and differentiate between two things just by reading the name. Carbon Dioxide is harmless, Carbon Monoxide will kill you. Organization of information is a vital component to many fields, because it makes it easier to learn and understand.

That's not politicizing. When you CROSS OUT the word and write "my enemies" in its place, that's politicizing.

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29 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

Carbon Dioxide is harmless, Carbon Monoxide will kill you.

A small aside for clarity.  CO2 is mostly harmless to humans in small concentrations.  However it is an asphyxiate at high concentrations and does displace oxygen.  Hence, the key operating principle of a CO2 Fire extinguisher. 

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1 hour ago, 8_Hussars said:

A small aside for clarity.  CO2 is mostly harmless to humans in small concentrations.  However it is an asphyxiate at high concentrations and does displace oxygen.  Hence, the key operating principle of a CO2 Fire extinguisher. 

I get you, I think his point was that CO2 will be breathed out normally where as CO actually binds to a red blood cells haemoglobin receptors permanently thus meaning that red blood cell can no long transport oxygen from the lungs to the rest of the body.

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Many people forget SARS and Wuhan Virus close friend, MERS. ME, middle east. Other example of virus origin naming being JEV, Japanese encephalitis. Scientific naming and local adoption of the virus should nothing more than a cultural thing, bring it up to a global level? Bottom line being, CCP is easily triggered. Even then the name of COVID-19 is no where aligned as its siblings SARS and MERS, there are numerous coronaviruses the current virus was shown closer to Bat-CoV branch (Bat-CoV 2017, Bat-CoV 2018 so on...) Practically they all have their own branch, naming it Corona Virus Disease 19 can be misleading as all diseases caused by any CoV can logically refer as corona virus disease, but how will they name subsequent viruses of the same branch and diseases caused by it? Should they all be referred as COVID-19 if the virus itself evolved? Their siblings dont come across it even they have clearly changed over the years since first discovered. Personally I don’t see putting a year number behind the best choice, regardless of whatever disease name they come up with.

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9 hours ago, Ham_ said:

Changing the name of a virus when it is already known globally, to be apolitical, is on the contrary very political. 

 

8 hours ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

It's called what it is because it's a name that actually describes the virus on the molecular level, the disease it causes, and 19 stands for 2019. Science doesn't just pull naming conventions out of its ass, they follow certain guidelines because people need to be able to understand and differentiate between two things just by reading the name. Carbon Dioxide is harmless, Carbon Monoxide will kill you. Organization of information is a vital component to many fields, because it makes it easier to learn and understand.

That's not politicizing. When you CROSS OUT the word and write "my enemies" in its place, that's politicizing.

I get it, but things often have common names.  Nobody's telling scientists and doctors not to call id COVID-19 or whatever, but we're resisting being told not to use the common name - especially when the common name was created for no political reason, whatever arguments either way may have come along since.

7 hours ago, 8_Hussars said:

A small aside for clarity.  CO2 is mostly harmless to humans in small concentrations.  However it is an asphyxiate at high concentrations and does displace oxygen.  Hence, the key operating principle of a CO2 Fire extinguisher. 

 

6 hours ago, simba90 said:

I get you, I think his point was that CO2 will be breathed out normally where as CO actually binds to a red blood cells haemoglobin receptors permanently thus meaning that red blood cell can no long transport oxygen from the lungs to the rest of the body.

CO is poisonous.  CO2 is also strictly speaking poisonous even beyond it displacing O2.  I didn't know this until I read The Martian, but you can suffer from CO2 poisoning even when there's plenty of oxygen.

5 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

Many people forget SARS and Wuhan Virus close friend, MERS. ME, middle east. Other example of virus origin naming being JEV, Japanese encephalitis. Scientific naming and local adoption of the virus should nothing more than a cultural thing, bring it up to a global level? Bottom line being, CCP is easily triggered. Even then the name of COVID-19 is no where aligned as its siblings SARS and MERS, there are numerous coronaviruses the current virus was shown closer to Bat-CoV branch (Bat-CoV 2017, Bat-CoV 2018 so on...) Practically they all have their own branch, naming it Corona Virus Disease 19 can be misleading as all diseases caused by any CoV can logically refer as corona virus disease, but how will they name subsequent viruses of the same branch and diseases caused by it? Should they all be referred as COVID-19 if the virus itself evolved? Their siblings dont come across it even they have clearly changed over the years since first discovered. Personally I don’t see putting a year number behind the best choice, regardless of whatever disease name they come up with.

There will inevitably be common names that spring up for any new iteration of the disease, really.

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Such as "corona virus", which is a group name, but everyone knows it refers to the American Disease / Bergamese Mala Aria / Big Apple Sleepy Lung (considering it's quite alright naming things where the main outbreak currently is).

I've only found references to Chinese virus after what Jesse succinctly referered to as "When you CROSS OUT the word and write "my enemies" in its place, that's politicizing."

That has little to do with holding China responsible for the outbreak, that geopolitical pressure, and propaganda to your own people (who are clearly swallowing it).

Wuhan virus likewise I don't find any common use. The virus from Wuhan, in the early days, sure. But that's not a name. That's a pure geographical indication.

 

Anyway, currently losing my grandmother (old age - corona isn't even checked). Cannot say goodbye because of the lockdown. My mom (her daughter) can and did, but I'm honestly a bit scared for may parents now - as they have been to areas where infection can possibly spread now.

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11 minutes ago, Private_Miros said:

Such as "corona virus", which is a group name, but everyone knows it refers to the American Disease / Bergamese Mala Aria / Big Apple Sleepy Lung (considering it's quite alright naming things where the main outbreak currently is).

I've only found references to Chinese virus after what Jesse succinctly referered to as "When you CROSS OUT the word and write "my enemies" in its place, that's politicizing."

That has little to do with holding China responsible for the outbreak, that geopolitical pressure, and propaganda to your own people (who are clearly swallowing it).

Wuhan virus likewise I don't find any common use. The virus from Wuhan, in the early days, sure. But that's not a name. That's a pure geographical indication.

 

Anyway, currently losing my grandmother (old age - corona isn't even checked). Cannot say goodbye because of the lockdown. My mom (her daughter) can and did, but I'm honestly a bit scared for may parents now - as they have been to areas where infection can possibly spread now.

Sorry to hear about your grandmother.  That's always harder when you can't be there for your parents.

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31 minutes ago, Private_Miros said:

Wuhan virus likewise I don't find any common use. The virus from Wuhan, in the early days, sure. But that's not a name. That's a pure geographical indication.

Anyway, currently losing my grandmother (old age - corona isn't even checked). Cannot say goodbye because of the lockdown. My mom (her daughter) can and did, but I'm honestly a bit scared for may parents now - as they have been to areas where infection can possibly spread now.

You cannot find Wuhan virus because it doesn't come in as English :minidoge:. In Chinese, 武漢肺炎 is not a direct translation of Wuhan virus (or disease) but rather Wuhan Pneumonia. 新型冠狀病毒病 (official short form 新冠肺炎), which is COVID, is a direct translation yet short form is still referring it as Pneumonia. 

武漢 (Wuhan) 肺炎 (Pneumonia)
vs
新型 (New) 冠狀病毒 (Coronavirus) 病 (Disease)

The former being more direct instead and thus no need to short form, both are grammatically correct but the latter is compressed. Former is more commonly used because it is closer to verbal grammar. A even shorter form used by media will be 武肺, 武(Wu) 肺 (Lung).

 

May your grandmother be in peace.

1 hour ago, FlorbFnarb said:

There will inevitably be common names that spring up for any new iteration of the disease, really.

The confusion is, COVID-19, SARS, MERS are referring to the disease, while SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV are referring to the coronavirus that caused the disease, with a year number behind it to specify its evolution state, i.e. version. They now simply call the virus responsible for COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2. There is no linkage between naming the virus and the disease. I think they realise calling it COVID-19-CoV is dumb.

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2 hours ago, Unavailebow said:

You cannot find Wuhan virus because it doesn't come in as English :minidoge:. In Chinese, 武漢肺炎 is not a direct translation of Wuhan virus (or disease) but rather Wuhan Pneumonia. 新型冠狀病毒病 (official short form 新冠肺炎), which is COVID, is a direct translation yet short form is still referring it as Pneumonia. 

武漢 (Wuhan) 肺炎 (Pneumonia)
vs
新型 (New) 冠狀病毒 (Coronavirus) 病 (Disease)

The former being more direct instead and thus no need to short form, both are grammatically correct but the latter is compressed. Former is more commonly used because it is closer to verbal grammar. A even shorter form used by media will be 武肺, 武(Wu) 肺 (Lung).

 

May your grandmother be in peace.

The confusion is, COVID-19, SARS, MERS are referring to the disease, while SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV are referring to the coronavirus that caused the disease, with a year number behind it to specify its evolution state, i.e. version. They now simply call the virus responsible for COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2. There is no linkage between naming the virus and the disease. I think they realise calling it COVID-19-CoV is dumb.

Agreed.  Although I thought COVID-19 was the name of the virus in this case, this specific coronavirus.

Honestly as a non-doctor the first time I remember ever hearing of a disease and its pathogen being given separate names that made into public consciousness was AIDS and HIV.  AIDS was the term everybody heard first, then after a while people learned HIV is the virus, you might contract it and not develop the disease AIDS, etc.

 

Same with all this SARS stuff - there's multiple pathogens causing SARS.

It all becomes overly complicated, which is why I think sometimes just using common names simplifies things for most people.

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