ST-II

[flare_phoenix 369]

this tank blows but it's fun double shooting people, but the tank blows

[SchnitzelTruck 3,600]

Does it really suck? I'm halfway through the is3-II grind hating my life with its mediocrity in every aspect. If the ST2 sucks I'll probably just quit the grind 

[flare_phoenix 369]

45 minutes ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Does it really suck? I'm halfway through the is3-II grind hating my life with its mediocrity in every aspect. If the ST2 sucks I'll probably just quit the grind 

I skipped the t8/t9 but I think general consensus is that they're a lot better tier for tier, with the tier 9 being the best. ST2 produces a good meme once in a while but otherwise is thoroughly mediocre. 

[SchnitzelTruck 3,600]

Well then that's fucking pathetic cause the tier9 id rate only slightly higher than the type4 for shittiest tier9 heavy. The 8 was enjoyable however.

[Ezz 1,770]

Odd, I thought the general vibe on the 9 was that it was very good. Most put it ahead of the 8 with the 10 a distant third as far as the line goes.

[SchnitzelTruck 3,600]

25 minutes ago, Ezz said:

Odd, I thought the general vibe on the 9 was that it was very good. Most put it ahead of the 8 with the 10 a distant third as far as the line goes.

Worst gun in tier, butter turret vs prem, average mobility, terrible in corner fights thanks to pike. It excels in no situation beyond potential kill secures. General vibes don't mean shit because it involves the opinions of complete idiots who are entirely happy with doing 2 shots of damage and dying, and the double barrel tanks are really good at firing twice before dying.

[Ezz 1,770]

I meant skill and one of the others (can't recall which). Our main forum is too filled with apathy for much actual tank discussion to occur. We keep it mostly to what new piece of broken nonsense wg intends to release.

[lavawing 498]

2 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Worst gun in tier, butter turret vs prem, average mobility, terrible in corner fights thanks to pike. It excels in no situation beyond potential kill secures. General vibes don't mean shit because it involves the opinions of complete idiots who are entirely happy with doing 2 shots of damage and dying, and the double barrel tanks are really good at firing twice before dying.

well the main niche for the tank is that it's effectively a 120 mil heavy that can reload in 5 seconds as opposed to 9. The trade off is that the pen is gimped and the turret is tier 8 material, but I guess it could be played around that strength

[hazzgar 730]

On 4/18/2020 at 9:20 AM, lavawing said:

well the main niche for the tank is that it's effectively a 120 mil heavy that can reload in 5 seconds as opposed to 9. The trade off is that the pen is gimped and the turret is tier 8 material, but I guess it could be played around that strength

5s is one of those awkward numbers that are too long to catch people with 2 shots when they make a mistakes.

[Tman450 210]

I ground through the 8 and 9, I thought the 9 was going to be the best, and I still like it, but now I think the tier 8 is the best in the line. the right mix of mobility and gun. The 100mm i found really good.

 

The ST-II is gigatrash. It's basically an IS-4 with 2 barrels. Memeing on people with the double barrel is the only highlight.

[igorCRO 45]

11 hours ago, Tman450 said:

I ground through the 8 and 9, I thought the 9 was going to be the best, and I still like it, but now I think the tier 8 is the best in the line. the right mix of mobility and gun. The 100mm i found really good.

 

The ST-II is gigatrash. It's basically an IS-4 with 2 barrels. Memeing on people with the double barrel is the only highlight.

I agree with you.

Tier 8 was kinda weird for me, I felt like I always had that 1 shell ready to shoot, crazy DPM or just a feeling  

[hazzgar 730]

100mm on t9 would be a better gun if it had more pen. Seriously. My t9 is cursed though. 42% WR. 33 battles, 2500 dpg... I think it's meh not as trash as Ive said before thanks to decent gun dep but still no intention of getting ST-II

[kolni 69,670,872]

i found the tier 8 prem to be very, very fun (the one with flat UFP, whatever it's called) but I absolutely loathed everything else

i also found that double firing is close to pointless unless you are unspotted and with these guns you never fight in that range anyway

probably the only tier 10 i'd consider a complete waste of credits

[hazzgar 730]

On 4/26/2020 at 5:51 PM, kolni said:

i found the tier 8 prem to be very, very fun (the one with flat UFP, whatever it's called) but I absolutely loathed everything else

i also found that double firing is close to pointless unless you are unspotted and with these guns you never fight in that range anyway

probably the only tier 10 i'd consider a complete waste of credits

Double fire works vs oblivious enemies and for late game cleanup but imho it probably gives you like 5-10% extra damage and the derpy nature of the tank takes way more.  But yeah. t8 prem is good. Also gimmicky features work better in lower tiers.

[flare_phoenix 369]

fuck this tank

[hazzgar 730]

Masochist but congrats

[Rexxie 10,788]

Kind of more a general line question but I didn't want to make a new thread - I'm relearning the game and I was curious what the current opinion is on the best way to use double barrels? I grabbed the IS-2-II and have been kind of scratching my head on how to make use of the gun.

There's the rare situation where I need some extra alpha but that chargeup time for the dual shot feels like it almost defeats the purpose of the feature & I just end up playing it like an autoloader that I can take a little more time with. I'm also really struggling with not being able to hold LMB to fire off shells as soon as they're loaded. If I change the salvo hotkey, will I be able to do that again?

[Deus__Ex__Machina 989]

5 hours ago, Rexxie said:

Kind of more a general line question but I didn't want to make a new thread - I'm relearning the game and I was curious what the current opinion is on the best way to use double barrels? I grabbed the IS-2-II and have been kind of scratching my head on how to make use of the gun.

There's the rare situation where I need some extra alpha but that chargeup time for the dual shot feels like it almost defeats the purpose of the feature & I just end up playing it like an autoloader that I can take a little more time with. I'm also really struggling with not being able to hold LMB to fire off shells as soon as they're loaded. If I change the salvo hotkey, will I be able to do that again?

the double shot is near useless in most situations and can be an RNG roll. often its smarter to play the tanks single shot/auto-re loader style. the double shot not only takes time to charge up, but it also ruins ur DPM far more than if you had just dumped both shells 1 by 1. Also both shells fly linear when you double shoot, so if ur shot misses or goes to armor it will bounce, it means both shells will typically miss/bounce. its basically just a fun gimmick to get off a meaty hit. 

also ive re-bound the double fire key to MB4 and im able to hold LMB to fire once loaded just fine

[Rexxie 10,788]

I didn't know that firing one shell reset the reload of the other, making playing it like an autoloader super DPM inefficient - at the very least you reset 4s of reload time, at worst it can be nearly all of it. So usually it's a single-shot cannon that you just want to use only the second shell of? As far as I can tell that's the only way not to waste DPM.

Honestly at that point I'd rather just always double shot, at least it's fun that way.

[Rexxie 10,788]

doublepost but dead forum so whatever

The problem isn't even the weird derpy cannons, it's the dpm. You could absolutely make these tanks work if they had competitive DPM while using either of their useful firing modes, but you can't. Here's the IS-2-II's DPM with vents+bia:

Double Barrel: 1666 DPM

Autoloader: (Average firing times): 1706 DPM

Autoloader (Optimal firing times): 1836 DPM

As a comparison, if you ignore the mechanic entirely, you get 2309 DPM, about average for any T8 HT. Except now you're playing a slow, paper-hull T8 HT with bad gun control and very low alpha. It's obviously balanced around the other firing modes, but the punishment for using them is severe. Especially the autoloader, which you are constantly pressured into using and is much harder to ignore.

Not at all surprised to find the IS-2-II has one of the lowest winrates of any T8.

[lavawing 498]

On 7/21/2020 at 2:11 AM, Rexxie said:

doublepost but dead forum so whatever

The problem isn't even the weird derpy cannons, it's the dpm. You could absolutely make these tanks work if they had competitive DPM while using either of their useful firing modes, but you can't. Here's the IS-2-II's DPM with vents+bia:

Double Barrel: 1666 DPM

Autoloader: (Average firing times): 1706 DPM

Autoloader (Optimal firing times): 1836 DPM

As a comparison, if you ignore the mechanic entirely, you get 2309 DPM, about average for any T8 HT. Except now you're playing a slow, paper-hull T8 HT with bad gun control and very low alpha. It's obviously balanced around the other firing modes, but the punishment for using them is severe. Especially the autoloader, which you are constantly pressured into using and is much harder to ignore.

Not at all surprised to find the IS-2-II has one of the lowest winrates of any T8.

the tank isnt awful but bear in mind it has 85mms as its stock gun - that fact, coupled with the decent pen on them means some people may be tempted to stock grind the thing

[Rexxie 10,788]

I would assume most people stock grind almost everything! I certainly do

[lavawing 498]

Am now grinding the tier 8 as well.

I should say that I've played nothing but strong (i.e. OP) tier 8 heavies for like 3 years and this thing just feels like a colossal downgrade. The ability to fire twice in 4 seconds doesn't nearly compensate for the lack of armour and the lack of alpha - it just means you have to poke more to do what other tanks can do with greater safety.

In effect, it makes it a sort of weird cross breed between the hulldown pew pew heavies and support vehicles like the Renegade - but whereas those have strengths that can challenge tier 9s, you are stuck with middling....everything. I am not exaggerating when I say that a good player in a good tier 7 could potentially ruin your day. And when you have to face the actually good tier 8s - well - let's just say it doesn't tend to end well.

The gun is actually pretty good, and the platform is quite workable, it's just that in some weird sense it feels somehow.....less than the sum of its parts. The kind of armour profile it has would be great for a 390 alpha toting Soviet brawler where the alpha and the snapping ability would dissuade people from aiming long enough to hit your weakspots - but not for a 300 alpha gun which fires every 4 or 7.5 seconds.

I'm still trying to find a role for this thing. It's good at shitting on mediums - but then again so is basically every other fast heavy in this tier. And your armour is bad enough that 250+ pen APCR is more likely than not to go through. What do I do?

[hazzgar 730]

Play like a renegade that's better hull down. The gun is good and the 4s autoreloader memes are good. Also the charge for double shot is fast enough for it to be usable. I rather liked the IS-2-II

[lavawing 498]

Hijacking this thread again, about the IS-3-II - it might actually be good. Feels like an M103 with a double (albeit shitty) gun, or a derpy Mle 51 that's gone on a diet. 

Still don't have the upgraded tracks or engine, but so far it's surprisingly capable. Very strong against mediums due to its combo of speed, low profile, big gun depression and quick firing 122 mils, but a bit gimped against actual heavies. As for equipment choice, I guess verstab and vents are a given, but the third piece will prolly be a toss up between hardening (1950 HP ftw), turbo, and maybe even IAU (.33 accuracy and 1259 kph APCR).

I guess it could be a very capable support heavy with APCR spam and that quick load, but as it turns out, this thing has ludicrously bad pen loss over distance, to the point that the APCR drops nearly 50mms of pen over 500m - leaving it at 243 pen - coincidentally the base pen of the standard rounds - at max range. To illustrate how bad this is, the T-10's AP shells lose 8 mms of pen over 500m, and has more pen than the IS-3-II's APCR shells even without factoring in normalisation. Bit excessive IMO.