Bush Camp Rating, simplistic comparison of tier 10 meds/lights

[Ham_ 434]

This is a simple rating consisting of VR * Moving Camo value for tanks, I did it to get an idea of tier 10 bush wank rankings atm. I specifically used moving camo, because you need to move to double bush. Still camo only works as a passive scouting comparison. The premise is that the greater the Bush Camp Rating, the greater the spot without being spotted ability you have. This is a low level metric that doesn't apply to the game 1 to 1 but gives you an idea of tank performance in this aspect of game play. Most of us know this info from playing but I'm bored af.

Tier 10 Medium	VR	Camo (Moving)	Bush Camp Rating
K91	410	13.45	5514.5
UDES	390	13.68	5335.2
430U	400	13.05	5220
BC 25t	400	12.65	5060
140	400	12.08	4832
121B	420	11.23	4716.6
30B	410	11.46	4698.6
Progetto	400	11.57	4628
T-62A	400	11.46	4584
121	400	11.29	4516
Leo	410	10.55	4325.5
TVP	410	10.03	4112.3
STB	400	10.26	4104
Cent AX	410	9.01	3694.1
E50M	400	7.41	2964
Patton	420	6.21	2608.2
M60	420	5.19	2179.8
Tier 10 Light
Manticore	400	20.52	8208
T-100	390	19.84	7737.6
EBR	350	21.15	7402.5
AMX	390	18.18	7090.2
Flipwagen	420	15.73	6606.6
WZ	400	15.96	6384
Sheridan	420	14.48	6081.6

K91 is super powerful in this regard, as expected. UDES has best in class camo which makes up for worst VR. 430U is fucking broken.

M60 and M48 really have trash tier camo and it affects them badly. 121B is best by far for 420 VR memes.

Manticore and T-100 place ahead of EBR, but EBR still crushes every other light. Go figure.

 

[hazzgar 730]

I think EBR vs other lights is not a valid comparison simply because assuming no improved equipment you won't spot an enemy light or even med at max view range. Yeah EBR is broken as shit I agree but after playing it for a while I think it's harder to have monster spot games in it because of that. EBR will perform better on average but will have fewer spikes where slow bush game surprises enemy campers.

[Ham_ 434]

17 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

I think EBR vs other lights is not a valid comparison simply because assuming no improved equipment you won't spot an enemy light or even med at max view range. Yeah EBR is broken as shit I agree but after playing it for a while I think it's harder to have monster spot games in it because of that. EBR will perform better on average but will have fewer spikes where slow bush game surprises enemy campers.

The Bush Wank Rating describes your ability to spot without being spotted, not strictly just how far you can be spot. For instance, EBR is able to take up very aggressive scouting positions due to it's camo to compensate for VR (see iyouxin on malvinovka for instance) which gives it such a high rating. Also applying improved equipment to all the tanks will just scale the rating linearly. This isn't a you vs enemy comparison where you can have added advantages through food and equipment, just the base potential of the tank.

 

To add to original post:

The Rating generally holds true for all camo values but there are some discrepancies where tanks have firing/standing values that don't scale the same. I think 430U has better camo than the 140, but has a slightly worse firing camo for instance.

[hazzgar 730]

31 minutes ago, Ham_ said:

The Bush Wank Rating describes your ability to spot without being spotted, not strictly just how far you can be spot. For instance, EBR is able to take up very aggressive scouting positions due to it's camo to compensate for VR (see iyouxin on malvinovka for instance) which gives it such a high rating. Also applying improved equipment to all the tanks will just scale the rating linearly. This isn't a you vs enemy comparison where you can have added advantages through food and equipment, just the base potential of the tank.

 

To add to original post:

The Rating generally holds true for all camo values but there are some discrepancies where tanks have firing/standing values that don't scale the same. I think 430U has better camo than the 140, but has a slightly worse firing camo for instance.

Yeah I know what it describes. I just wanted to point out it's a very narrow slice of the spotting game. I also mentioned improved equipment since with Ivents and Ioptics ebr can actually spot some tanks at 445m.

Overall the list has some value it's just good to look for holes in your benchmark as a way to stress test them. Didn't want to be a dick about it. It's a force of habbit from the jerb. 

 

 

PS. Sorry it's me again but camo and vr kinda have different purposes for bush kemping. Camo allows you to get to bushes. In bushes themselves unless WG fucked up you won't be spotted.  VR is useful everywhere. Also I'd argue speed is also important as getting somewhere before someone can spot you on the way is a key factor in spotting - hence what you said about EBR. 

 

Size is also important. ELC EVEN 90 if I remember right doesn't have better camo than top t10 tanks but it's so super tiny it can get to silly spots because of that.

[Ham_ 434]

15 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Size is also important. ELC EVEN 90 if I remember right doesn't have better camo than top t10 tanks but it's so super tiny it can get to silly spots because of that.

This has to do with spotting points, you can fuck up a bush camp with a point getting exposed when you turn your turret. The 13 90 has a particularly nasty one.

You are completely correct though, the 1 to 1 transfer of this metric to the game is very niche, but the ordering is roughly as expected and gives information on where some lesser used tanks fit in like the T-62a which was always known as poorer vs 140, but its surprising how many places it cedes because of that camo loss.

[SoliDeoGloria 417]

What I take from this is that M60 clearly needs buffs. Weegee get on this.

[Ham_ 434]

30 minutes ago, SoliDeoGloria said:

What I take from this is that M60 clearly needs buffs. Weegee get on this.

It's more of an indication of play style rather than a stat, but more Bush Camp Rating certainly doesn't hurt lmao

[ZXrage 1,317]

6 hours ago, Ham_ said:

It's more of an indication of play style rather than a stat, but more Bush Camp Rating certainly doesn't hurt lmao

The M60 having a poor rating is a bit detrimental to its gameplay as fat Leopard 1, although I guess M48 used to be like this before it got its turret buffed. Looking at the rest of the tanks I'm surprised the Leo 1 is kinda below-average on the list, considering how much its playstyle relies on not getting spotted. I always forget how tall the damn thing is.

Also the 430U so high above that list  better than the Bat-chat 

[Ham_ 434]

17 minutes ago, ZXrage said:

The M60 having a poor rating is a bit detrimental to its gameplay as fat Leopard 1, although I guess M48 used to be like this before it got its turret buffed. Looking at the rest of the tanks I'm surprised the Leo 1 is kinda below-average on the list, considering how much its playstyle relies on not getting spotted. I always forget how tall the damn thing is.

Also the 430U so high above that list  better than the Bat-chat 

I don't own a M60 but it doesn't strike me as a med that can roll up to completely open bushes and make it work. 430U can though 

[MagicalFlyingFox 1,022]

DA RASHA BLYAT

 

Speaking of rasha, where doest the epitome of BALANS 907 end up? 

[SoliDeoGloria 417]

I've found M60 is just kinda meh at everything. Especially since M48 gets turret armor buff, and Leo gets gun buff.

[nabucodonsor 461]

I love how the 430U really needed a better camo rating than a bat chat in WG's eyes. 

And if i recall correctly camo is determined by the tank's size (height). Because of course a tank as small as the 430U can have a 160mm thick frontal plate, a crew of 4, 90mm russian side armour, room for 50 shells plus an engine powerful enough to move 42ton tank and a stalinium while a bat struggles to keep 30 shells a crew of 3 in a paper thin tank.

I bet that the suspensions are made from the mustache our dearest leader Stalin.

 

[kolni 69,670,870]

Camo rating isn’t a number they tune while releasing, it’s calculated on height almost exclusively

 

this is also pretty funny considering that the M60 basically whoops every single tier 10 but the Strv at actual vision games (VR>>>>>>>>>>camo)

[Ham_ 434]

53 minutes ago, kolni said:

Camo rating isn’t a number they tune while releasing, it’s calculated on height almost exclusively

 

this is also pretty funny considering that the M60 basically whoops every single tier 10 but the Strv at actual vision games (VR>>>>>>>>>>camo)

Fatton? It has the better camo for the same VR no

[kolni 69,670,870]

1 hour ago, Ham_ said:

Fatton? It has the better camo for the same VR no

It is much slower so it can’t play the range game as easily

[Istanbultaye 21]

Is it too late to return my M60?

[hazzgar 730]

On 4/22/2020 at 7:33 PM, kolni said:

Camo rating isn’t a number they tune while releasing, it’s calculated on height almost exclusively

 

this is also pretty funny considering that the M60 basically whoops every single tier 10 but the Strv at actual vision games (VR>>>>>>>>>>camo)

I think camo can be stronger than VR but only for lights and only when you have A LOT of it ELC EVEN style. But yeah for typical playstyle VR> CAMO

On 4/22/2020 at 9:41 PM, kolni said:

It is much slower so it can’t play the range game as easily

How would you rate m60 overall vs other t10 tanks?

On 4/22/2020 at 6:28 PM, nabucodonsor said:

I love how the 430U really needed a better camo rating than a bat chat in WG's eyes. 

And if i recall correctly camo is determined by the tank's size (height). Because of course a tank as small as the 430U can have a 160mm thick frontal plate, a crew of 4, 90mm russian side armour, room for 50 shells plus an engine powerful enough to move 42ton tank and a stalinium while a bat struggles to keep 30 shells a crew of 3 in a paper thin tank.

I bet that the suspensions are made from the mustache our dearest leader Stalin.

 

Its funny that tank size affects ammorack size in all tanks but ruskies. Small Frenchies get low ammo. Small Brit Lights get no ammo but small ruskie tank gets bigger once you get inside, like a sitcom caravan

[nabucodonsor 461]

34 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

I think camo can be stronger than VR but only for lights and only when you have A LOT of it ELC EVEN style. But yeah for typical playstyle VR> CAMO

How would you rate m60 overall vs other t10 tanks?

Its funny that tank size affects ammorack size in all tanks but ruskies. Small Frenchies get low ammo. Small Brit Lights get no ammo but small ruskie tank gets bigger once you get inside, like a sitcom caravan

Or like all their hidden stats generally are much better than on other tanks

[hazzgar 730]

22 minutes ago, nabucodonsor said:

Or like all their hidden stats generally are much better than on other tanks

They are hidden because the tanks are too small to display them obviously. 

[Ham_ 434]

430U gets like +20 ammo capacity over 113, that's the biggest joke in the game

[arthurwellsley 132]

Ham_

for a better bush camp rating can you look at acceleration and ground resistance figures. I suspect that although the UDES scores high for camo on the move, it might not actually gain speed sufficiently rapidly to get to a bush on it's own side of the map before an opposing enemy medium (maybe with worse camo on the move) can get to a bush on their side of the map if the enemy medium can accelerate to that bush faster than the UDES can get to his own bush. The enemy can thus deny the UDES his bush by virtue of speed. Assumes that the UDES is racing to a bush versus a K-91.

I am not taking into account notional top speed of the mediums here, because in the dash to a bush either early game or mid game the distances involved are I am assuming insufficient.

You might need to pick a notional distance, say acceleration over 50 metres, or 75 metres to calculate the figures for comparing the mediums.