Jump to content
hall0

[Sandbox] Equipment 2.0

Recommended Posts

https://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/general-news/sandbox-equipment-2-0/

So WG is trying to create more build diversity. After watching the video and checking the new stats for each equipment I don´t think they will succeed. Firepower equipment is still superior to everything else. Even with slotbonus I don´t see a reason to equip something like "Improved Tank Helmets" or "Additional Forward/Reverse Transmission".

Only the scout equipment seems to be interesting. Stuff like giving more camo from the get go or less camo debuff while shooting, or better spotting through bushes could become handy. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i instantly supressed a yawn while I read this..

again there are other possibilities to fix the game but I guess this is something (?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perfect should not be the enemy of good, yadda yadda.

An equipment overhaul has been needed for a long time (it's one of the things that has barely changed since beta times) and this looks to be a step in the right direction.

  • Limiting certain equipment by classes is a bit annoying. Binocs limited to only TDs but then preventing them from using optics could indirectly nerf some more mobile TDs like E25, etc.
  • Category limits/bonuses aren't great either. It pigeonholes tanks into certain roles and can make them less flexible/fun to play.
  • Also I could totally see categories leading to a new meta forming
    • eg. skilled players generally prefer the Obj 277 to IS-7. That gap would be even bigger if the Obj 277 gets firepower + mobility while the IS-7 gets armor + mobility.
    • strongest would probably be heavy tanks with two firepower categories or medium tanks with firepower + scouting.
  • Splitting the vert stab into two pieces of equipment is a reasonable nerf, as I would arguable it's the most valuable current equipment (even more than rammer). Although I think it would've more sense to group hull movement + traverse vs turret (rather than hull movement + turret vs traverse). The current combination and benefit levels make vert stab (+20% on two sources) clearly stronger than improved rotation mechanism (+15% on one source) for all turreted vehicles.
  • The additional forward/reverse speed says MPH in one section, % in another. The former would be much more useful; it's generally slower tanks that need more mobility help and 105% of 15kph is still really fucking slow.
  • Scouting equipment is the most interesting.
    • Jamming device (-2/4s spotted duration) seems useful for active scouts.
    • Commander's Vision (-10/20% to camo on bushed vehicles) seems interesting but too low; most non-tiny bushes are ~35-50% camo. I would double it, or make it ignore foliage camo completely.
    • Would need to break out a spreadsheet to figure out how panoramic triplex compares to optics. My guess is that it is net worse (more effective vs moving vehicles but not by enough to offset lower flexibility).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the bonuses are bigger than what they are now some tanks will be even stronger. Faster games. Idiots at wg. They want us to farm credits for new equipment.

50 minutes ago, dustygator said:

Commander's Vision (-10/20% to camo on bushed vehicles) seems interesting but too low; most non-tiny bushes are ~35-50% camo. I would double it, or make it ignore foliage camo completely.

Igoring foliage camo or making it double is idiotic. That would literally mean spotting is broken as shit. Vents + Optics + Ignore camo on an elc even or t100 or ebr and everyone is fucked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Since the bonuses are bigger than what they are now some tanks will be even stronger. Faster games. Idiots at wg. They want us to farm credits for new equipment.

Igoring foliage camo or making it double is idiotic. That would literally mean spotting is broken as shit. Vents + Optics + Ignore camo on an elc even or t100 or ebr and everyone is fucked.

Yeah, if there is one thing this game needs less is scout fuckers spotting for camping td-tards hiding 300m behind.

Prokhovorka is already annoying as it is (the team with the good bush kemp skaut wins 3/4, so if ur scout is in idiot or unlucky, u lost, nice...

This idea is terrible too complicated and shifting the problem, instead, just buff some stuff and nerf others, its not that hard... (like improved suspension should give 10% better turn rate and +3 km/h etc)

And perhaps nerf V-stab a little

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, hazzgar said:

Since the bonuses are bigger than what they are now some tanks will be even stronger. Faster games. Idiots at wg. They want us to farm credits for new equipment.

Igoring foliage camo or making it double is idiotic. That would literally mean spotting is broken as shit. Vents + Optics + Ignore camo on an elc even or t100 or ebr and everyone is fucked.

You're right in that being to stack optics on top of negating foliage would be too powerful. But an either/or situation could still be balanced with some tweaking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, dustygator said:

You're right in that being to stack optics on top of negating foliage would be too powerful. But an either/or situation could still be balanced with some tweaking.

NO. Negating foliage completely means you spot low camo tanks at your vr -10m. Even with no optics that means 440

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to see this in action, but it looks like something that could shake up the meta without adding in new tanks. I hope they limit the shit that the EBR can use because the last thing we need is one with higher top speed and power to weight. I see some real meme builds coming out of this tho. like a maus that doesn't take stun damage at all or an E25 that keeps almost all its camo while firing. Overall I am wary of this going the way of the ammo re-balance, but hopeful that it shakes up the meta in a positive way. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

“Experimental Powder increases tank concealment  after firing by 10%“...

I could go on, but there’s too much stupid to cover before my morning coffee. Typical WG convoluted mess masquerading as a solution to a not even secondary concern of the player base.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, sohojacques said:

“Experimental Powered increases tank concealment  after firing by 10%“...

I could go on, but there’s too much stupid to cover before my morning coffee. Typical WG convoluted mess masquerading as a solution to a not even secondary concern of the player base.

But E25 memes. Just think of the seal clubbing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, dustygator said:

 

  • The additional forward/reverse speed says MPH in one section, % in another. The former would be much more useful; it's generally slower tanks that need more mobility help and 105% of 15kph is still really fucking slow.

A wargamming employee on reddit confirmed that is meant to be a %, not a km/h increase... Which makes it useless to even consider outside of anything but the fastest light tanks (because 5% of 50km/h is only 2.5km/h versus a gun rammer), and even then, I wouldn't touch it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5% of TOG max speed all for the low low price of 600K credits

16 minutes ago, Ogopogo said:

A wargamming employee on reddit confirmed that is meant to be a %, not a km/h increase... Which makes it useless to even consider outside of anything but the fastest light tanks (because 5% of 50km/h is only 2.5km/h versus a gun rammer), and even then, I wouldn't touch it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do we want to do?

  • Simplify the choice and use of all equipment

"Now scroll down to form 7C marked, 'light tanks tier 4-6' and write in your gross credit total. Reference chart B13 to find what your base camo value within a bush is and divide by improved camo net values to find your net camoflague values while in water while being observed with improved binocs from a tank destroyer."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Jesse_the_Scout said:

What do we want to do?

  • Simplify the choice and use of all equipment

"Now scroll down to form 7C marked, 'light tanks tier 4-6' and write in your gross credit total. Reference chart B13 to find what your base camo value within a bush is and divide by improved camo net values to find your net camoflague values while in water while being observed with improved binocs."

Beat me to it, and did a better job. Take my +1.

Basically exactly what I was thinking watching this video.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

messing with other tanks' numbers through messing with your own really doesn't sit well with me.. if my hard stats in game were nerfed (camo rating shredded>i get spotted and die despite not moving in solid foliage and closest enemy is 300m+) and I didn't get to see why then i won't learn how or why i died as it couild just always be that over and over.. camo shred is a really bad idea because it'll just nullify the entire skill on large tanks (that still can run it) and hardly affect the vision bullshit we have already in wheelies. 

  • there's too much vision atm, ppl cover too much ground and play too safe as a result, you can't do this or this or this because if an EBR comes and lights you, you die.. end of innovation cycle

 

  • i think making 445VR much harder to achieve is a place to start, not considering all the buffs that upping the crew with improved stuff would further boost it - at least for higher tiers,

 

  • td's capped at 400, 435 with binocs, 420 with optics, they still have render obv but their VR circle'll just be smaller, not able to run both binocs and optics at the same time - gives light tanks more wiggle room in dealing with said bushwanking when you have physical space you know they can't use against you unless they come closer, raise avg HP of TDs by like 5-10%

 

  • lights - basing the VR stat on performance and nothing else so it just gets tweaked between the tier 10 lights as the weakest one in performance will have the highest VR of next balance cycle and just tune them all into they feel fine against the field> hard nerf EBR > nerf T-100 VR, give it a high pen AP gold round (280 or so) and a 1,1x modifier for lights to how damage translates (not assisted) to compensate the already other shitty T10 lights and how they perform, it's an outside the game buff to all tier X lights in XP/credit/whatever gains people think are important. now as the only class able to stack vision the old way > lights are relevant again, but confined to the very small specific role the light tanks should have in game. More similar to the tier 8 LTs belonging to tier X days of actually focusing on recon rather than being first to the place on the map you want to fight. could also buff their HP but i think that's counterproductive no matter how you slice it when it comes to actually balancing them

 

  • combat ability wasn't a big thing in lights until they started becoming better at it, and if you funnel lights into similar areas of a map like normal they will still mostly just fight.. themselves anyway.. as long as all the lights take part/gets buffed/nerfed unbiasedly no one will gain an edge on another there, but the light vs rest of the tank classes dynamic isn't good now and was imo much better when lights were intendedly weaker than now, back then WN8 farming was their only real purpose so if you want to be viable within the game created then I doubt we share views on the rest, but back then playing a light tank meant you had to do recon, while i don't like the ridiculousness of not being able to fight back at all the light tank aspect of the game still worked better in 5-X than 357.. lol...

 

  • meds -> lower VR cap by 15m, lower either mobility or armour if the tank has that + good gun, raise HPs 10%,  +10 points added to every statistical piece of data for the E 50M to make it less weak

 

  • heavies -> superheavies +10% HP - hybrids no changes - hulldown heavies +10% HP and more hatches/cupolas to deal with the imperviousness of hulldown tanks, post 2018 releases all VR nerfs unless they follow the nations general trend regarding the topic

 

  • also no JoAT tanks, E5 in 2016 was the first to do it and just nooope

 

  • make camo more reliant on the base camo of the tank and not so much the crew,: buff to everyone playing without camo skill and nerf to everyone who uses it on everything, vision needs to be given more room to play around or it's eventually (like seen here by WG themselves) going to die if it's not kept as a core foundation of the game mechanics - tanks intended to use vision can do it, but stifle that element from everyone else not intended to to breathe more life into it in game

 

  • open topped vehicles recieve automatic ventilation bonus (5%) as compensation for taking the VR advantage from them, give them at least some edge for being pennable to arty and everything else that sets their sights

 

  • arty capped to 1
  • lights capped to 2, LT MM along with SPGs get separate queue for a map pool where they aren't fodder just for choosing to play a role, nobody in their mind would send 5 EBRs total from both sides to recon Himmelsdorf in a whiplash until you RNG them down.. doesn't mean the overall map pool still won't be adjusted - increase bans to 3, include assault/encounter and balance team starts gathering information on the most banned maps to rework/remove what isn't working
  • HP buff is to inflate gametime, making steamrolls more tedious but close games much more thrilling and down to the wire - consider upping max game time to 20min and 15min respectively if it doesn't slow the game down by force
  • rework how capping works, unless you need the game to end - nobody wants to cap over taking the drive for damage, and almost all good players have this in common: they don't use the mechanic. needs adjusting to have some sort of value that isn't just "oh, forgot to check the cap" when the clock starts ticking
  • sandbox mode with shooting range and proper game guides on mechanics, basically just tanks.gg. wotlabs and customiseable practice rooms along with making sure the player understands the underlying objectives of what the game is intended to be about, incentivise influencing the game positively (permanent top tankers contests with in game rarities or something, idk)
  •  no gamebreaking climbs (out of bounds) but reinstall shortcuts that reward you for being familiar with the environment
  • ESL 7/68 back on, use pro players' strategies to solve map problems > more clever map design
  • Tuning RNG by nerfing it to 15% on HP rolls and 10% on penetration rolls, there's no point in adjusting the spread if you are just going to slap another "what if?" on top of that before it actually connects, having very little to do with any decision made by anyone other than that some numbers have to come out. 0 RNG would make the game very predictable, the point of a large HP pool is to dissuade this from being such a big problem, a 390alpha gun firing at your 400HP tank will always feel risky, as it should. 

fixing the game isnt very hard when every exit feels like a solution

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kolni said:

messing with other tanks' numbers through messing with your own really doesn't sit well with me.. if my hard stats in game were nerfed (camo rating shredded>i get spotted and die despite not moving in solid foliage and closest enemy is 300m+) and I didn't get to see why then i won't learn how or why i died as it couild just always be that over and over.. camo shred is a really bad idea because it'll just nullify the entire skill on large tanks (that still can run it) and hardly affect the vision bullshit we have already in wheelies. 

  • there's too much vision atm, ppl cover too much ground and play too safe as a result, you can't do this or this or this because if an EBR comes and lights you, you die.. end of innovation cycle

 

  • i think making 445VR much harder to achieve is a place to start, not considering all the buffs that upping the crew with improved stuff would further boost it - at least for higher tiers,

 

  • td's capped at 400, 435 with binocs, 420 with optics, they still have render obv but their VR circle'll just be smaller, not able to run both binocs and optics at the same time - gives light tanks more wiggle room in dealing with said bushwanking when you have physical space you know they can't use against you unless they come closer, raise avg HP of TDs by like 5-10%

 

  • lights - basing the VR stat on performance and nothing else so it just gets tweaked between the tier 10 lights as the weakest one in performance will have the highest VR of next balance cycle and just tune them all into they feel fine against the field> hard nerf EBR > nerf T-100 VR, give it a high pen AP gold round (280 or so) and a 1,1x modifier for lights to how damage translates (not assisted) to compensate the already other shitty T10 lights and how they perform, it's an outside the game buff to all tier X lights in XP/credit/whatever gains people think are important. now as the only class able to stack vision the old way > lights are relevant again, but confined to the very small specific role the light tanks should have in game. More similar to the tier 8 LTs belonging to tier X days of actually focusing on recon rather than being first to the place on the map you want to fight. could also buff their HP but i think that's counterproductive no matter how you slice it when it comes to actually balancing them

 

  • combat ability wasn't a big thing in lights until they started becoming better at it, and if you funnel lights into similar areas of a map like normal they will still mostly just fight.. themselves anyway.. as long as all the lights take part/gets buffed/nerfed unbiasedly no one will gain an edge on another there, but the light vs rest of the tank classes dynamic isn't good now and was imo much better when lights were intendedly weaker than now, back then WN8 farming was their only real purpose so if you want to be viable within the game created then I doubt we share views on the rest, but back then playing a light tank meant you had to do recon, while i don't like the ridiculousness of not being able to fight back at all the light tank aspect of the game still worked better in 5-X than 357.. lol...

 

  • meds -> lower VR cap by 15m, lower either mobility or armour if the tank has that + good gun, raise HPs 10%,  +10 points added to every statistical piece of data for the E 50M to make it less weak

 

  • heavies -> superheavies +10% HP - hybrids no changes - hulldown heavies +10% HP and more hatches/cupolas to deal with the imperviousness of hulldown tanks, post 2018 releases all VR nerfs unless they follow the nations general trend regarding the topic

 

  • also no JoAT tanks, E5 in 2016 was the first to do it and just nooope

 

  • make camo more reliant on the base camo of the tank and not so much the crew,: buff to everyone playing without camo skill and nerf to everyone who uses it on everything, vision needs to be given more room to play around or it's eventually (like seen here by WG themselves) going to die if it's not kept as a core foundation of the game mechanics - tanks intended to use vision can do it, but stifle that element from everyone else not intended to to breathe more life into it in game

 

  • open topped vehicles recieve automatic ventilation bonus (5%) as compensation for taking the VR advantage from them, give them at least some edge for being pennable to arty and everything else that sets their sights

 

  • arty capped to 1
  • lights capped to 2, LT MM along with SPGs get separate queue for a map pool where they aren't fodder just for choosing to play a role, nobody in their mind would send 5 EBRs total from both sides to recon Himmelsdorf in a whiplash until you RNG them down.. doesn't mean the overall map pool still won't be adjusted - increase bans to 3, include assault/encounter and balance team starts gathering information on the most banned maps to rework/remove what isn't working
  • HP buff is to inflate gametime, making steamrolls more tedious but close games much more thrilling and down to the wire - consider upping max game time to 20min and 15min respectively if it doesn't slow the game down by force
  • rework how capping works, unless you need the game to end - nobody wants to cap over taking the drive for damage, and almost all good players have this in common: they don't use the mechanic. needs adjusting to have some sort of value that isn't just "oh, forgot to check the cap" when the clock starts ticking
  • sandbox mode with shooting range and proper game guides on mechanics, basically just tanks.gg. wotlabs and customiseable practice rooms along with making sure the player understands the underlying objectives of what the game is intended to be about, incentivise influencing the game positively (permanent top tankers contests with in game rarities or something, idk)
  •  no gamebreaking climbs (out of bounds) but reinstall shortcuts that reward you for being familiar with the environment
  • ESL 7/68 back on, use pro players' strategies to solve map problems > more clever map design
  • Tuning RNG by nerfing it to 15% on HP rolls and 10% on penetration rolls, there's no point in adjusting the spread if you are just going to slap another "what if?" on top of that before it actually connects, having very little to do with any decision made by anyone other than that some numbers have to come out. 0 RNG would make the game very predictable, the point of a large HP pool is to dissuade this from being such a big problem, a 390alpha gun firing at your 400HP tank will always feel risky, as it should. 

fixing the game isnt very hard when every exit feels like a solution

Imagine if WG put good players in charge of balance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What isn't mentioned in the video is gld are prevalent because art, and binocs and nets because transferable. They don't seem to at all discuss *why* equipment is used so much, only say that they don't like that it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NGL i like the idea of having equipment that makes my camo better and affects my spotting time

 

but uhhhhhhhhhh guess we'll see how it plays out on sandbox? lmfao

 

five bucks says there'll still be an optimal build for everything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my first thought on reading the title of this thread is that there are about three hundred Exponentially more pressing issues that this game needs fixing than changing the equipment, which is a long standing and conventional mechanic with no inherent problems.

before watching the video and reading some comments in the thread, this has further strengthened my opinion that this will be in no way an actually good change.

skimming through a small portion of the video. I already, seriously, seriously do not like any of this idea. 

they're trying to fix something that aint broke. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

only good thing i can argue is the lowering of equipment cost relative to tier.

oh BTW they are buffing purple equipment too

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...