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[Sandbox] Equipment 2.0

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This is a nerf to bond equipment. So first we grind bonds now it has a smaller advantage vs right place gear.

 

Also some tanks with the right slots and characteristics may become broken. Camo net + low shoot penalty + something else vision while only 1 will give you a bonus on the STRV and yes you will hurt your DPM but on open maps? LOL.. 

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3 hours ago, hazzgar said:

This is a nerf to bond equipment. So first we grind bonds now it has a smaller advantage vs right place gear.

 

Also some tanks with the right slots and characteristics may become broken. Camo net + low shoot penalty + something else vision while only 1 will give you a bonus on the STRV and yes you will hurt your DPM but on open maps? LOL.. 

On first look I thought the same but on second I think it is a buff. Sure there could be some troll builds with the new equipment but I am pretty sure equipment meta will stay the same. Meaning Rammer, Stabi, Vents will still be the way to go. 
Sure if you put normal equipment in the right categories slot the gap between normal and bond equipment is now a bit lower. But you need to have the right categorie slots on your tank. And as far as I understood it, you can´t choose the categories which are preinstalled on your tank. You have to go with the stuff WG provides you with. 
For example I am pretty sure WG will provide every Heavy tank with a survivabiliy slot, so it can tank more. But I don´t care much about this options. I want to do dmg and I want to do it reliable. This will win me the most battles.
When I use now equipment on a slot without the categorie bonus. I will end up with a bigger cap between normal and bond equipment as the buffed the bond equipment. 
At the end of the day if the equipment meta will stay the same, you will end up with a slight advantage when you have bond equipment. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, hall0 said:

On first look I thought the same but on second I think it is a buff. Sure there could be some troll builds with the new equipment but I am pretty sure equipment meta will stay the same. Meaning Rammer, Stabi, Vents will still be the way to go. 
Sure if you put normal equipment in the right categories slot the gap between normal and bond equipment is now a bit lower. But you need to have the right categorie slots on your tank. And as far as I understood it, you can´t choose the categories which are preinstalled on your tank. You have to go with the stuff WG provides you with. 
For example I am pretty sure WG will provide every Heavy tank with a survivabiliy slot, so it can tank more. But I don´t care much about this options. I want to do dmg and I want to do it reliable. This will win me the most battles.
When I use now equipment on a slot without the categorie bonus. I will end up with a bigger cap between normal and bond equipment as the buffed the bond equipment. 
At the end of the day if the equipment meta will stay the same, you will end up with a slight advantage when you have bond equipment. 

 

 

You can chose categories but most meds will have 1 firepower slot where rammer or vert stabs or vents can go meaning extra bonus.

The only options are:

1. You have no extra bonus so the difference between normal equipment and bond is the same

2. You have the correct slots and difference gets smaller. 

 

What buffed bond equipment? Acording to vids bond equipment stays the same. It doesn't get buffs. 

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There were some slight buffs in there for some bond stuff iirc. Irammer was at 13.5% I think and similar for some others.

The other benefit as mentioned is not having to be in a specific slot. Gives you more flexibility without being tied to wg's 'this is how we want you to play the tank'.

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10 hours ago, hazzgar said:

 

What buffed bond equipment? Acording to vids bond equipment stays the same. It doesn't get buffs. 

It wont get buffs from the categorie slots, but it will get buffed in general. 

image.png.2b4224397e777a80b305881b5784adf0.png

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4 hours ago, hall0 said:

It wont get buffs from the categorie slots, but it will get buffed in general. 

image.png.2b4224397e777a80b305881b5784adf0.png

Aaaah. Missed that. Jesus this is idiotic. It essentially means all tanks get better gun handling and better vision. Yaaay we need a bigger disparity between good and bad players and good and bad setups to get more steamrolls. 

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They really ought to bundle a number of equipment options together. Many are lackluster specific equipment that in no way stand up against generalist equipment

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You mean like this bullshit we had last CW Campaign? I already had the feeling they tested certain mechanics there.

Anyway I don´t think we this will be a common sight. The more HP is not worth the trade off in a 279. Maybe the new Wet Amo Rack is. But with the HP Buff it will probably ends up like the HP buff skill in WoWs. Seeing a Battleship having more HP than usual thanks to the Survivability Expert Skill usually means the captain is a noob or trying out some tard build. Both will help the enemy to win. 

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After actual reading it, its not as bad as i thought (on paper...)

I think vents will no longer be a default piece and even v-stab may be dropped, for example a maus, the higher top speed can be usefull (it says 5 km, not %, % would be total shit))

Same Turbocharger for 10% more engine power can be usefull on some tanks, those with high top speeds but weakish engine can greatly benefit (T-10 perhaps?) also, Increases turning speed on the move by 12% is a serious bonus (i think) with the bigger engine and this mobility thing, u can make something like the E50 really fast

ps: also things like jamming device can be usefull, getting de-spotted 2 sec faster can be usefull (if i get despotted, and the guy next to me not, he get shot instead of me) (this last can only be put on TDs, so for TDs, vents are no longer needed i think, rammer / GLD (for 95% of the tds) and either vent / /optics / binos, this jamming device can be really usefull, even rammer can be questioned sometimes perhaps (if you are dead you cant shoot, so staying alive longer can in some specific cases be more usefull as having more dpm)

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The new equipment items that they've shown so far actually seem pretty cool. The problem is all of these weird rules restricting items to certain classes or giving particular slot bonuses. For one, makes it hard to test if the new items are well balanced with the slot rules in effect. And secondly, the whole idea of diversifying loadouts is contradicted by trying to motivate particular slots to use particular items.

As of whether the typical rammer/vstab/optics meta loadout will ever be unseated, I have my doubts. But that of all things isn't the major problem here. The real question is why all these other equipment items just aren't as good as the previous three. Long story short, the typical tank in the vast majority of typical scenarios just doesn't benefit much from most of the other items. Looking at something like the newly buffed wet ammo rack for instance, let's even take a hypothetical situation where they buffed the item even further and it made your ammo rack entirely invulnerable. Even then, it would only be situational. Any time that your ammo rack isn't being hit, the wet rack wouldn't be helping you.

But on the flipside, the few times that we do see the meta loadout being changed, its because a particular aspect of a tank is so outstanding by default that the relevant item just isn't needed. For instance, running an M48 with vents instead of optics or a T92 light tank without vert stabs. The big takeaway being that for the vast majority of tanks, fire rate, gun handling, and view range just aren't sufficient as-is and simply adding new alternatives isn't going to fix that.

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Since Wargaming is going a bit on the crazy side with this whole equipment 2.0 thing, why not remove the gun rammer? Without the +10% DPM of the gun rammer a lot of other options become more appealing. I realize that it is quite a radical change, but it does carry a few benefits (theoretically)for the game as a whole. With an overall DPM reduction battles would (theoretically) last longer. It would open up slots for other equipment to be used. Artillery would have a longer reload. Any thoughts on equipment 2.0 without gun rammer? Crazy? Bad idea? Good idea? 

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Naturally they could then play with all the intra clips but imo slowing the shooting bit down arbitrarily would take some of the shooting joy away. You could probably get a similar result just be increasing all hp by 10% tho I guess that still leaves rammer in the mix.

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14 hours ago, hall0 said:

You mean like this bullshit we had last CW Campaign? I already had the feeling they tested certain mechanics there.

Anyway I don´t think we this will be a common sight. The more HP is not worth the trade off in a 279. Maybe the new Wet Amo Rack is. But with the HP Buff it will probably ends up like the HP buff skill in WoWs. Seeing a Battleship having more HP than usual thanks to the Survivability Expert Skill usually means the captain is a noob or trying out some tard build. Both will help the enemy to win. 

If they have both this and the same stuff last campaign we might even see over 2.9k HP 279es.


That will be extremely fun in an abbey camp.

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No matter what happens with the sandbox, the reduction on slots for equipment and consumables and changes to module and crew vulnerability for lower tiers will go live.  The rest may live or die based on feedback, but I think it is unlikely when WG has an idea for making changes to lower tiers that they will not be committed to it.

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17 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

After actual reading it, its not as bad as i thought (on paper...)

I think vents will no longer be a default piece and even v-stab may be dropped, for example a maus, the higher top speed can be usefull (it says 5 km, not %, % would be total shit))

Same Turbocharger for 10% more engine power can be usefull on some tanks, those with high top speeds but weakish engine can greatly benefit (T-10 perhaps?) also, Increases turning speed on the move by 12% is a serious bonus (i think) with the bigger engine and this mobility thing, u can make something like the E50 really fast

ps: also things like jamming device can be usefull, getting de-spotted 2 sec faster can be usefull (if i get despotted, and the guy next to me not, he get shot instead of me) (this last can only be put on TDs, so for TDs, vents are no longer needed i think, rammer / GLD (for 95% of the tds) and either vent / /optics / binos, this jamming device can be really usefull, even rammer can be questioned sometimes perhaps (if you are dead you cant shoot, so staying alive longer can in some specific cases be more usefull as having more dpm)

The thing is most tanks will still need vstab+ rammer and optics for pubs still make sense. So ironically autoloaders will have the biggest freedom here. Same for TD's. 5km on a Maus is good but not sure if it will really change that much in practice given that hp/t isn't great so the tank will still move slowly.

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I like what this is going for. The actual execution we will have to see, but adjusting equipment cost for individual tiers is absolutely a good thing. Equipment was horrifically overpriced for low tier vehicles.

Also I do like how at least *some* of the equipment options seem extremely valuable. Additional Grousers went from being a completely pointless shit equipment to something actually very valuable.

Also a combo of improved tank helmets, module protection and superheavy spall liners might be an amazing combo for fat, slow tanks that get arty focused a lot, like the T95 or Maus.

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48 minutes ago, Tupinambis said:

Also a combo of improved tank helmets, module protection and superheavy spall liners might be an amazing combo for fat, slow tanks that get arty focused a lot, like the T95 or Maus.

No one sane will sacrifice vision and damage dealing ability just on the off chance they might get an open map where they will be 2-3 arties who will focus that specific tank. It's a benefit that will work in a % of games. Boosting firepower works in 100% of the games. 

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7 hours ago, hazzgar said:

The thing is most tanks will still need vstab+ rammer and optics for pubs still make sense. So ironically autoloaders will have the biggest freedom here. Same for TD's. 5km on a Maus is good but not sure if it will really change that much in practice given that hp/t isn't great so the tank will still move slowly.

On a maus, V-stab can be sacrificed safely i think, the accuracy on the move is good as is it (mostly due to slowness)

And beiing able to cross dangerous places faster, getting faster in the fight (you go 25% faster) and less chance of getting screw end game, well, i would put it on maus i think.

Mauschen has too few hp to make it work, but VK-100? (i would drop vents here)

Same on T95 or E3, i would go with top speed and rammer, and in third slot GLD or more engine power, beiing able to put your brick into the fighter faster is worth far more as some shitty spotting range (optics is also situational, if a guy in front of you spots, you wasting a slot sort of)

Only rammer will 100% stay as default, 10% more dps is always usefull, the rest comes down to: what is worth more: getting faster to the fight vs beiing more effective in the fight

(on all rounders heavys, mediums, tanks with bad gun handling V-stab will also be 100% default imo, its the third slot, optics / vents, where you can now choose a little, same for TDs, that cant mount V-stab, there i now often have GLD, but is that worth it always? (on an ISU, yes, but on a, say Jagdpanther?)

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I think rolling together some of the mods makes the most sense. +km/h doesn't make much sense on the tanks where you'd want to take it, because they often if not always also suffer from a weak engine and/or abysmal ground resistances (Churchills and french "super"heavies are on the extremes of this spectrum e.g.), so the extra speed doesn't really make sense as you'll rarely reach it unless driving downhills and sometimes not even then (Churchills...). Conversely extra hp/ton or improved ground resistances (which is mathematically the same, more or less) doesn't make much sense on most tanks you'd want to take it, because they also lack the top speed and it just does not matter if you need 30 seconds to reach your top speed of 20km/h or 25 seconds. At the same time, this combined "power pack upgrade" is still completely useless for tanks that already have a high mobility and looks like an attractive optional choice for vehicles that are "middle of the road" without striking me as a "must have".

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