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Derpinator2013

HE = secret sauce for grinding? (test server experiment)

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So I've been noodling around on test server, mainly trying to see how bad the grind up the equipment on the T 29 will be if I ever get it unlocked. I bought it, and only upgraded what I would have through the T1/M6 line.

 

Frustrated with 300 average damage at the start I decided 2 things.

 

1) don't grind if you can help it.

 

2) get the 90mm and have 10K free xp for the tracks so you can mount it. Having the ~50k for the full package is better.

 

Did both with "free" xp, and still a little underwhelmed by the tank due to MM. I don't know if it's just the horribad test server MM or what, but I was in a LOT of tier 9 battles and had one where 3 tanks on my side were tier 7 against none on their side.

 

So I thought to myself, "Self, why not load up some HE and see if you can cripple their tanks. Not kill them, just FORCE them to burn repair/med kits early. You can't carry a game with damage and kills, but can you carry one by so severely gimping each enemy you find that your team can win?"

 

So I loaded up 15 HE shells and fired 1 at each enemy I encountered for my first round.

 

Now it's a small sample size to be sure, but burning 1 HE and 1 AP on each enemy that I encountered... we won. Several times in a row.

 

I checked my damage after each game. Pretty pathetic still at ~800, but I destroyed about 19 tracks, killed 7 drivers and took out 5 guns. plus miscellaneous radio men, loaders and that short guy at the back who catches engines on fire.

 

Is there some value to HE after all?

 

I've been told it's only worth carrying to reset a cap ocasionally, but... if it makes them burn a kit early, could it be worth it?

 

I'd like your thoughts, oh wise ones.

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With the 90 on that tank, you should be slinging APCR against higher tier heavies (except easy to hit squishies like a T34's hull) and AP against mediums and same or lower tiers while going for weakspots.

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I'm inclined to say "no", but if your gun is large enough to reliably module damage them (not tracks), and you can get the shell safely (not trading HP), it could be viable for against their top player. The problem with HE is that it's unreliable even for module damage. If they're hull down, yeah definite toss an HE trying to break their gun, but I'm hesitant to say that a module damage from HE would be better than a shot worth of HP damage to them, since the critical models, ammo rack and engine, are hard to damage with HE.

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I played the T29 on the test server with the 90mm gold spamming + cola.

 

I took my frustration out on pubbies and racked up two 1906 base exp games lol. It's just beyond OP.

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I would rather just work down their hp with AP/APCR. If you have a large caliber gun and a large shell count though, it's not a terrible idea to sling a pack of HE into the gun of a higher tier you can't pen. It's easy enough to take out tracks and drivers will die if you pen where they are anyway. And I'd always bring some on huge guns like the E-100, that aren't TDs.

I wish they'd give HE some of its power back like it had before the nerf.

And yes, I carried 13 HE on the Sherman.

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don't ever fucking carry HE

B-But it does more damage!

 

But I always bring my one lucky HE round.

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I'll admit that if I'm facing a squishy American TD or Russky T28, I'll queue up an HE shell for the reload after I sling my AP. HE penning a tank is a thing of beauty. :thumbup:

 

*edit* This is usually only worth it on tier 5 or higher tanks. And seeing as TD's get more armor rapidly after tier 6, it's only viable in a small range of tiers. But still helpful if you can cut down on the number of shots needed to kill a TD.

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If it works for you, go ahead and do it. It didn't work for me, and none of my sub 120mm caliber guns load HE anymore.

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I don't use HE either and normally don't recommend that anyone use it but...

 

You're actually helping your team if indeed you are damaging all those modules/crew members.  If you're having a hard time helping your team with damage at least you're helping them in other ways.

 

It shouldn't be a permanent solution but I'd say run with it for now and see how it goes!

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I wish they'd give HE some of its power back like it had before the nerf.

 

 

You mean back when an Easy8 could spam 76mm HE at the glacis of a KT and take it down by dealing 120-130 hp each hit?

 

Yeah, no.

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I usually carry a limited supply of HE for cap reset (usually 3-5 depending on ammo capaity of the tank) but even then I usually forget it and stil fire AP at them anyway.

You mean back when an Easy8 could spam 76mm HE at the glacis of a KT and take it down by dealing 120-130 hp each hit?

 

Yeah, no.

wow... did HE really use to be THAT overpowered? o_o I wouldnt mind a sort of middle ground for it though. so at least it does actually do its full alpha SOMETIMES. (you would think hitting a T71 in the side of the turret with a 120mm HE round from my AMX 50 120 would do full alpha right... Nope. i did 250. was a training room BTW not an actual game.

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I usually carry a limited supply of HE for cap reset (usually 3-5 depending on ammo capaity of the tank) but even then I usually forget it and stil fire AP at them anyway.

wow... did HE really use to be THAT overpowered? o_o I wouldnt mind a sort of middle ground for it though. so at least it does actually do its full alpha SOMETIMES. (you would think hitting a T71 in the side of the turret with a 120mm HE round from my AMX 50 120 would do full alpha right... Nope. i did 250. was a training room BTW not an actual game.

 

Yeah, back before sprem I carried around HE for targets that I couldn't penetrate from the front, and you could shoot E-75s in the front of the turret for 200 damage per shot with a Type 59. Ridiculous.

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"The only reason to use HE is if the damage increase is substantial AND you have a particular tank in mind to fire at, to make up for the gamble of hitting spaced armor or rolling a shit pen or accuracy roll. The reason I say literally never fire HE is because most human players aren't quick enough to load HE when needed and switch back before an AP-necessary target becomes the priority. I know every now and then I regret switching to HE in my Ltraktor when the enemy Brit dies and I could shoot another tank, and that thing has a <2s reload. I fired HE at three incorrect targets in my T-34-85 after my Hellcat target was gone, which is shameful.

Situations to fire HE:

  • Literally never.
  • British tier 1, either with it or against it.
  • T18's heat is kinda horrible for general use and HE one-shots a lot of shit. Can't pen T1E6s for some reason.
  • I guess the 105mms and the KV-2's 152mm can load some HE just to get a decent amount of damage reliably if you're sniping or whatever.
  • Enemy Hellcats when going from a many-shot kill to two-shot kill.
  • Certain tier 9s and 10s if you have a HESH equipped tank. Shooting HE at Leopard 1s or Batchats or 50Bs or whatever is a recipe for sadness.

Do not fire HE at arti unless you absolutely will die to their shotgun, and you won't have time to get two shots off to kill it, and you have to kill the arti RIGHT NOW and move on somewhere else. Most artillery has a ton of spaced armor or random high-armor areas that will make your shot fail.

Do not carry HE "just in case". You need a good reason to carry it. Cap resets do not count; you need to kill that shit anyway so just shoot gold. Damaging modules or dealing minuscule damage to hull down whatevers doesn't count, you're better off aiming for a weakspot or repositioning. Finishing off tanks with it is a shitty idea, since there's a non-zero chance that you'll fail to deal enough damage with HE to actually kill it and should just aim with gold. You may also be tempted to shoot HE at a 100-150 HP JT88, deal <50 damage each shot, and just be priced in to continue firing HE since the next one has to deal more right?

Reasons to not carry HE:

  • You may run out of other shells. Type 59, Hellcat, and T49 are the biggest offenders.
  • You may accidentally load HE, or forget to switch back after shooting a T29's gun or whatever.
  • You make an error and load it in the incorrect situation.

I shot HE from my T-34-85 at Hellcat fronts or rears. AP shells from the T-34-85 deal 180 damage, meaning three shots is 540 damage, not enough to clear a Hellcat's 570 HP. HE shells from the 85mm deal 300 damage, two shotting a Hellcat as long as you don't fuck up and hit a track, gun, or mantlet. If you can rush a Hellcat, you can fire at their front with HE, and reload before they do to finish him, ending up with a fantastic HP trade.

I did not fire HE out of the ARL 44 at all. It's neither accurate nor mobile enough to hit Hellcat fronts, and its shell damage is 300/330/360, and you don't really need that extra 60 damage for anything in particular. Gold goes through a Hellcat's tracks/mantlet anyway.

I would load HE in some 90mm guns (240 AP damage to 320 HE damage) and 76mm guns (the T49's AP is 115, HE is 185!) if I had a situation in mind where it'd be useful. The M6 might be able to get away with it, since you can two-shot a Hellcat and reload faster than it, but it can't really chase the Hellcat down so having HE loaded for it when a KV-1S comes out would be awkward. If the T49 had more than 45 shots, I'd carry HE shells, since it's realistic to get behind an enemy tank with <30mm armor and just blast them with 185 damage shells, but it runs out of ammo far too readily.

Or, you know, just literally never fire HE. That is another correct option."

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WZ-111 model 1-4. Enemy Jagdtiger at ~100 HP hull down 500+ meters away. He's pinned by you. You're pinned by him. Load 640 damage HE shell. Fire. Giggle and go about your business.

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don't ever fucking carry HE

Only if your tank has an ammo capacity problem,if you're unlikely to deplete even 60% of your AP/APCR,you're better off carrying the last 5% or 10% of HE for some flexibility.

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HE is generally not worth carrying on low ammo or small caliber tanks. But on tanks like the T29, which have a lot of extra ammo space, it is definitely worth carrying a few rounds if you have a reasonable caliber gun. They are occasionally useful.

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The sad thing is that the guns that need the HE the most to be able to reset caps for example have so bad he ammo that it basically never seems to do enough damage to actually reset the cap when hit. On the other end of the spectrum you have guns that have so good pen with ap or apcr/heat that simply hitting the tank is enough to do damage. I do think there is a sweet spot between these two extremes for carrying some HE though.

For tanks that have useful HE ammo having some onboard can help. For tanks that can carry loads of ammo carrying few HE shells can be useful.Tanks that are not autoloaders. For is3 for example it is quite possible to run out of ammo. I might still carry one or two just in case you have a t10 tank sitting in cap and you need to reset fast. For tiger h and p carrying some he can be useful at times. The he ammo of the 88 is pretty bad but you can carry so much ammo that it makes no difference. A tank like amx 13 75 should never carry he. Amx 50 100 has big enough ammo capacity that it can carry he but imho that is just useless or borderline stupid.

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I don't remember the last time I've consciously loaded HE. Sure, I might have a few rounds loaded in a handful of my tanks, but how often do I use it? Maybe what... once a month? And of those once-a-month situations, how many were actually decided by what shell I used? Practically none.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that whether or not you carry HE in tanks without ammo issues is pretty much irrelevant. Since the mechanics changes forever and a half ago, they have only become a source of entertainment.

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