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EvilMonkee

Char Futur 4 Appreciation Thread.

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Noticed that there didn't appear to be a thread for this.  I am still working toward my 1st MOE in it.  63/64% WR after around 200 games.  I really like it, plays more like a TD than a medium.  Running Vents, Stab and Optics with a 5 skill crew from my Bourrasque that I switch about.  How does everyone else play it?

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I've only played it a bit. Not really a fan. It's certainly unique, but I found that in almost every game I would have been better off in a Leo PTA and much better off in the Standard B. Interesting concept but the long intra-clip and reload keep this from being a good tank. Not bad and can be fun, but not a contender for the top spot in the tier 9 medium meta as is, IMO.

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I've only played 19 games in it and so far I think it's very good, but not great/top of the class. I'd put Leo and Standard B above it for sniping/autoloading respectively, but it is kind of a cross between the 2. It has really good gun performance for a French autoloader, but it is also not really an autoloader - it is almost impossible to get even 3 shots out without taking damage in return, let alone the full 'clip', I tend to snipe in it a lot more than I would any other autoloader, due to the aforementioned good gun performance and the dangers of getting in close to try and clip 'quick'. It also means that I reload after 2 or even 1 shot way more than I probably should, as always want to be fully loaded when reaching a new position, if possible.

Super fast with good camo means view range games suit it. I have a pimped out crew and also run optics, so to 3 mark I think spotting will be a huge part of the requirements (and more so than the Leo/Standard B). Because the gun is - if not situational - inflexible, it means there are a lot of dud battles where you will get sub-2k and are constantly either chasing damage, sniping and missing or being on reload at the worst time. That is where the Standard B really shines in comparison.

Tier 9 meds are probably the best in game class/tier right now, so it is no shame to say it sits on the 2nd tier of those (Leo/Standard B/430/I guess Kmp50t (not played it) being tier 1).

Game below showing how it can snipe pretty well for a Frenchie:

http://wotreplays.eu/site/5405243#stats

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Hmm interesting comparison with the Leo PTA, never had much success with that.  I think the camo makes the difference for me.  

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6 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Tier 9 meds are probably the best in game class/tier right now, so it is no shame to say it sits on the 2nd tier of those (Leo/Standard B/430/I guess Kmp50t (not played it) being tier 1).

I agree that T9 meds are a sweet spot. Off the top of my head, I would probably group the tiers are something like this (bold assumes healthy sprem usage, otherwise a tier lower)

E50 || T-55a

Leo PTA || Standard B || Skoda T50 || Obj 430 || M46 || T-54

AMX 30 || Cent 7/1 ||   Char 4/1

Type 61 || UDES 16

Batchat AP || Obj 430v2

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It is a well balanced tank. It makes trade offs and compromises to get its magazine and amazing penetration. That is why I think the Char is such a fun tank.

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3 hours ago, dustygator said:

I agree that T9 meds are a sweet spot. Off the top of my head, I would probably group the tiers are something like this (bold assumes healthy sprem usage, otherwise a tier lower)

E50 || T-55a

Leo PTA || Standard B || Skoda T50 || Obj 430 || M46 || T-54

AMX 30 || Cent 7/1 ||   Char 4/1

Type 61 || UDES 16

Batchat AP || Obj 430v2

Interesting tiers.

I think all tanks should be ranked as is - i.e. if you fire 100% gold that's fine, rank it with no asterisk. Even with that, i'd rank like this (order of priority on each tier being indicative that it is better):

S - Pta, Standard B, Kmp 50t* (not played), 430, Type 61

A - E 50, T-55A, Char, Skoda T50, Udes 16* (not played)

B - M46, T-54

C - Cent 7/1, Amx 30

D - BC AP* (not played), 430v2

The list is based on damage farming capability, which is similar to carrying but slightly different (damage farming does not always = carrying, but there is a strong correlation). Reasons for rankings:

  • Tier 9 meds are a sweet spot as the best have tier 10 guns with very little drawbacks. It's why the Type 61 is S tier - it has insane DPM and muder-HEAT ammo. It has 5k DPM potential for the best players. Any gun that doesn't have 330ish prem pen can't be in S tier, hence the E-50 falling down.
  • Platform is still important, and tier 9 also works really well for flat track bullies. I included the 430 in S tier for this reason - in a tier 10 game, I would pick other tanks in lesser tiers over it, but all in all I think it belongs there.
  • I don't rate the T-55A that much. I want to like it, but the shitty hull armour and no gun dep and shitty standard pen makes it feel like either a shit 430 or a shit Kmp 50t. Either way, it isn't up there in S tier.
  • There are a few tanks i've not played and the opinion is based on playing against them/watching other people play them. Also, some I played years ago (Amx 30, Cent, 430v2), so maybe I'm wrong.

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Nothing i find outstanding about the tank, its just 'fine'.

 

The gimmick and the fact that its not absolutely broken makes it at least interesting to play without being useless, which is more than you can ask for from WG in their neverending quest to make retarded decisions.

 

If tanks were balanced in this vein, a lot of issues with the stupid game probably wouldn't exist. It would just highlight the map design and artillery problems which is probably why WG do what they do...

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18 hours ago, dustygator said:

I agree that T9 meds are a sweet spot. Off the top of my head, I would probably group the tiers are something like this (bold assumes healthy sprem usage, otherwise a tier lower)

I have a bad habit of forciing my meds to do heavy things so this tierlist assumes some amount of aggression that is probably less than optimal for the current meta. That said, the farm-y NATO meds are soooo good - I just hate how they play

T-54 

Standard B || Leo PTA || E50 

Obj 430 || Skoda T50 || Type 61 

M46 || T-55A || AMX 30

Cent 7/1 ||   UDES 16

Batchat AP

Obj 430v2 || WZ-120 (it exists)

 

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16 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Interesting tiers.

I think all tanks should be ranked as is - i.e. if you fire 100% gold that's fine, rank it with no asterisk. Even with that, i'd rank like this (order of priority on each tier being indicative that it is better):

S - Pta, Standard B, Kmp 50t* (not played), 430, Type 61

A - E 50, T-55A, Char, Skoda T50, Udes 16* (not played)

B - M46, T-54

C - Cent 7/1, Amx 30

D - BC AP* (not played), 430v2

The list is based on damage farming capability, which is similar to carrying but slightly different (damage farming does not always = carrying, but there is a strong correlation). Reasons for rankings:

  • Tier 9 meds are a sweet spot as the best have tier 10 guns with very little drawbacks. It's why the Type 61 is S tier - it has insane DPM and muder-HEAT ammo. It has 5k DPM potential for the best players. Any gun that doesn't have 330ish prem pen can't be in S tier, hence the E-50 falling down.
  • Platform is still important, and tier 9 also works really well for flat track bullies. I included the 430 in S tier for this reason - in a tier 10 game, I would pick other tanks in lesser tiers over it, but all in all I think it belongs there.
  • I don't rate the T-55A that much. I want to like it, but the shitty hull armour and no gun dep and shitty standard pen makes it feel like either a shit 430 or a shit Kmp 50t. Either way, it isn't up there in S tier.
  • There are a few tanks i've not played and the opinion is based on playing against them/watching other people play them. Also, some I played years ago (Amx 30, Cent, 430v2), so maybe I'm wrong.

Agree with this list, AMX 30 can probably be B-tier and Udes as well (really didn't like it), otherwise I think it's pretty spot on

430 is pretty bad in many scenarios but it's super busted in just as many too so I think it evens out to a strong tank regardless

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1 hour ago, lavawing said:

I have a bad habit of forciing my meds to do heavy things so this tierlist assumes some amount of aggression that is probably less than optimal for the current meta. That said, the farm-y NATO meds are soooo good - I just hate how they play

T-54 

Standard B || Leo PTA || E50 

Obj 430 || Skoda T50 || Type 61 

M46 || T-55A || AMX 30

Cent 7/1 ||   UDES 16

Batchat AP

Obj 430v2 || WZ-120 (it exists)

 

Fuck I completely forgot about the WZ 120. Never played it, but this seems right.

25 minutes ago, kolni said:

Agree with this list, AMX 30 can probably be B-tier and Udes as well (really didn't like it), otherwise I think it's pretty spot on

430 is pretty bad in many scenarios but it's super busted in just as many too so I think it evens out to a strong tank regardless

Yeah I always underrated the 430 until i actually played it. So broken, in both a good way and a bad way.

Any update on the hand man?

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18 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Fuck I completely forgot about the WZ 120. Never played it, but this seems right.

Yeah I always underrated the 430 until i actually played it. So broken, in both a good way and a bad way.

Any update on the hand man?

yeah, it's recovering much more quickly than anticipated

still can't move my thumb in some directions, weirdly enough i can rotate it in circles and put pressure no problem on it - but lifting it is impossible at certain angles, but if i gently help it get started it can complete what i'm "thinking" i want the thumb to do, it just needs help starting the motions

nerve dmg is so fkn weird.. doctors say it's going to be fine though, it's something they can help with in therapy if it doesn't work itself out, got some sensitivity issues (entire hand is like 50% numbed out)

with a completely straight and locked wrist i have very little pain, some sensitivity issues compared to left hand still but that's about it - in 2-3 weeks i'll likely be able to move from cask to brace which is honestly surprising as they told me 2 months a week ago lol

 

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God damn, I just completely fail to see how anyone can rank, E50, 430 or T55A iver M46 Patton.

Patton can manage exposure so much better than any of them, and the gun depression and gun control really allows you to do some cheeky peeks from weird angles.
It's at the very least A-tier, Standard B and PTA really made S-tier a high bar to reach.

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34 minutes ago, CandyVanMan said:

God damn, I just completely fail to see how anyone can rank, E50, 430 or T55A iver M46 Patton.

Patton can manage exposure so much better than any of them, and the gun depression and gun control really allows you to do some cheeky peeks from weird angles.
It's at the very least A-tier, Standard B and PTA really made S-tier a high bar to reach.

Because the pen kills it (and by that I mean the gold pen, as that's all you should fire in the M46), and (unlike the E 50 and 430) it doesn't have the platform to be a flat track bully in a tier 7/8 game.

Don't get me wrong, I fucking love the M46, and if this was either 5 years ago or rankings based on how fun they are to play it would be much higher, but snapshotting only takes you so far when you're fighting all the tier 9s/10s hull down in the current meta.

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8 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

God damn, I just completely fail to see how anyone can rank, E50, 430 or T55A iver M46 Patton.

Patton can manage exposure so much better than any of them, and the gun depression and gun control really allows you to do some cheeky peeks from weird angles.
It's at the very least A-tier, Standard B and PTA really made S-tier a high bar to reach.

because 265 pen is a joke against armoured 9s and cant even cheese tier 8s properly

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Kpz 50t is probably IMO now the stand out along with Standard B. 

Then it's like PTA, T-55A, 430 (though I don't like it is strong), Patton. AMX 30, Skoda depending on playstyle and preferences IMO. 

Then like Cent, Type 61, Bat Chat AP, T-54, UDES, Char.

WZ-120 might be the only bad one, though personally I think Char is at the bottom of those mid level tanks. I don't get how people can rate that gun when so much of it bar pen and accuracy is bad, bad intra-clip, long reload (and bad DPM because of those two), bad gun handling, and mediocre gun depression on a rear mounted turret.

All on a platform that has no armour, so you have to expose yourself/peak for long period even for just two shots and can't often afford to that.

The platform is also hardly spectacular, decent camo and good but not amazing mobility. 

Even the view range is sub par.

For me they went out of their way to make sure that tank rarely puts its full clip out. 

Oh I forgot the 430 v2, which is also now poor and crippled by the changes IMO, so I'd put that in the bad category. 

Should caveat I haven't played Type 61 since the buff, so I know it's gun has improved, but it still only goes 45kph, is as big as a house with a giant cupola and has no armour, not IMO the combo of a top level tank in the current meta. If you are paper you need to be fast with a good clip or alpha, i.e standard B, DPM is not going to cut it, especially with sub par 360 alpha. 

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I played a few games T55a, and it seemed total shit (unless i got unlucky with teams / mm)

In the current: camp hull down behind a ridge, having a relative inaccurate, slow aiming 320 alpha gun seems kinda crappy, E50 atleast gets the laser + sheer dpm / alpha.

That said, all t9 meds seem to be "weak", they used to dominate, but now all seem to lack something (perhaps they are better in long drawn out fights as in short fast pitched battles, more hull down tanks / autoloaders?)

 

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4 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Should caveat I haven't played Type 61 since the buff, so I know it's gun has improved, but it still only goes 45kph, is as big as a house with a giant cupola and has no armour, not IMO the combo of a top level tank in the current meta. If you are paper you need to be fast with a good clip or alpha, i.e standard B, DPM is not going to cut it, especially with sub par 360 alpha. 

Don't look at the alpha being sub-par (by comparing it to the NATO meds/German tanks with 390+), but stupidly OP given it has the reload of a Russian 320 alpha gun.

It has amazing DPM, insane HEAT and can fire 2 shots for 1 (or none) and the gun handling to snap shot, and it has gun depression. 

Seriously, people underestimate it and maybe it has a high skill cap, but in terms of raw average damage potential it is up there with the best of tier 9 right now. It has a tier 10 gun performance, tier 10 DPM and tier 10 HEAT. Even if the platform is absolute dogshit (and it still has -10 and a mantlet), that goes a long way.

1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

That said, all t9 meds seem to be "weak", they used to dominate, but now all seem to lack something (perhaps they are better in long drawn out fights as in short fast pitched battles, more hull down tanks / autoloaders?)

 

Calling what is probably the strongest tier/class in the game now 'weak' is pretty ridiculous. I can see from your past posts that you mainly play heavies, and you're best days (self admitted - I've see you posts pining for the glory days) in the game were pre-2013, but seriously, that is an off the mark comment. Like, way off the mark.

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15 minutes ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Don't look at the alpha being sub-par (by comparing it to the NATO meds/German tanks with 390+), but stupidly OP given it has the reload of a Russian 320 alpha gun.

It has amazing DPM, insane HEAT and can fire 2 shots for 1 (or none) and the gun handling to snap shot, and it has gun depression. 

Seriously, people underestimate it and maybe it has a high skill cap, but in terms of raw average damage potential it is up there with the best of tier 9 right now. It has a tier 10 gun performance, tier 10 DPM and tier 10 HEAT. Even if the platform is absolute dogshit (and it still has -10 and a mantlet), that goes a long way.

Calling what is probably the strongest tier/class in the game now 'weak' is pretty ridiculous. I can see from your past posts that you mainly play heavies, and you're best days (self admitted - I've see you posts pining for the glory days) in the game were pre-2013, but seriously, that is an off the mark comment. Like, way off the mark.

Well, my most played class / tier after tier 8 heavys (due to prems) is probably tier 9 meds and imo T54 has been #1/2/3 tier 9 tank since the day they put it in wot (10 years ago..)

I also always prefered playing t9 meds over t9 heavys, except specific cases (conq, Vk-B when it was OP).

Yet atm i start to doubt t9 meds, i havent played them much lately, so need to play some more to see how it rolls, but i now start to doubt my favorite class / tier... :P

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The tanks themselves didn't get worse, but wg's template mm made tier 9 in general less of a happy place. 9 meds in particular copped it. It means far less bullying and more support your 10s.

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On 6/28/2020 at 9:31 PM, tajj7 said:

Kpz 50t is probably IMO now the stand out along with Standard B. 

Then it's like PTA, T-55A, 430 (though I don't like it is strong), Patton. AMX 30, Skoda depending on playstyle and preferences IMO. 

Then like Cent, Type 61, Bat Chat AP, T-54, UDES, Char.

WZ-120 might be the only bad one, though personally I think Char is at the bottom of those mid level tanks. I don't get how people can rate that gun when so much of it bar pen and accuracy is bad, bad intra-clip, long reload (and bad DPM because of those two), bad gun handling, and mediocre gun depression on a rear mounted turret.

All on a platform that has no armour, so you have to expose yourself/peak for long period even for just two shots and can't often afford to that.

The platform is also hardly spectacular, decent camo and good but not amazing mobility. 

Even the view range is sub par.

For me they went out of their way to make sure that tank rarely puts its full clip out. 

Oh I forgot the 430 v2, which is also now poor and crippled by the changes IMO, so I'd put that in the bad category. 

Should caveat I haven't played Type 61 since the buff, so I know it's gun has improved, but it still only goes 45kph, is as big as a house with a giant cupola and has no armour, not IMO the combo of a top level tank in the current meta. If you are paper you need to be fast with a good clip or alpha, i.e standard B, DPM is not going to cut it, especially with sub par 360 alpha. 

I still don't see how the 430 is better than the T-54 in anything that counts. The 430 is sexy and unique, true - but I'd rather have 330 HEAT pen than 390 alpha snaps, and both tanks are roughly the same in terms of armour and DPM.

Ditto re: T55A', the gun is significantly better, but you lose gun dep, speed, and all ability to bully.

OTOH I can see how the T-54's playstyle is less than appealing in the current environment where you basically have to be uncomfortably close to the action all the time to use the full potential of the tank. I find myself using much the same positions as I would in a T-10, only with slightly different strengths and weaknesses.
 

On 6/29/2020 at 12:23 AM, GehakteMolen said:

I played a few games T55a, and it seemed total shit (unless i got unlucky with teams / mm)

In the current: camp hull down behind a ridge, having a relative inaccurate, slow aiming 320 alpha gun seems kinda crappy, E50 atleast gets the laser + sheer dpm / alpha.

That said, all t9 meds seem to be "weak", they used to dominate, but now all seem to lack something (perhaps they are better in long drawn out fights as in short fast pitched battles, more hull down tanks / autoloaders?)

 

In all fairness the 55A's gun is legit among the best in tier. You get tier 10 firepower + comfort firing full HEAT which get 1.1k ish shell velocity.

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