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ZXrage

Equipment 2.0 Builds

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3 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

I'd agree with a lot of that. To be fair to Daki, he deliberated over a lot of choices and often listed alternatives you have above, before explaining why he didn't pick it in the end. He noted that some stuff would be flat out better for randoms in a way that it wouldn't for competitive, with a lot of that being vision modules.

Out of interest, what would you put on the Renegade? It's terrain resistances are so horrific that it genuinely seems to be a candidate for grousers? Compared against other tanks I'm thinking of playing for the PL med marathon:

Xd5cwuP.png

Grousers increase traverse by 25%-ish i.e. traverse bloom also. Not ideal.

Besides, gearbox is an extra hidden stat on top of terrain resistances and from what I've seen the Renegade has very good gear stats, prolly on par with the 277 which has similar terrain resistances and HP/T. No one would call the 277 sluggish, and for straightline flexing grousers would just be overkill.

I might consider turbo or grousers if the Renegade was a brawly heavium which 100% needs to flex to get things done. That's what I run on the WZ-111, for example. However, it isn't, and for the vertical peakaboo/DPS thing it does, vents, stab + rammer is still the most optimal set-up. One last thing is that going fast fucks your bloom which, again, isn't ideal for the Renegade.

I'd imagine you'd get more mileage out dropping vents and running turbo on frontlines, where the ability to keep up with your mediums will net you more damage than just being good at farming damage.

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How about the 13 105? CVS/Optics are a given and VStab feels necessary, but IRM/Turbro/Vents/Grousers also could get a look because of the 105's poor traverse speed.

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I've not tested on live, but early on turbo worked in siege mode so you were considerably more mobile. Beyond that I'd assume rammer and a choice of vision equipment.

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2 hours ago, Ezz said:

I've not tested on live, but early on turbo worked in siege mode so you were considerably more mobile. Beyond that I'd assume rammer and a choice of vision equipment.

Turbo does work on siege mode. Confirmed on S1

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I think a lot of the comments here show that overall, the new equipment has been a win for WG. While if looking to min-max for certain formats there will likely always be optimum builds, there are now many more viable options on a large number of tanks that will allow people to cater to differing playstyles and preferences. I think it's great how @sr360 seems to love putting turbo on almost everything, whereas others are gearing more for vision or gun handling on similar tanks.

I'm still a bit too credit poor to experiment too much so have held off tweaking too much stuff except on tanks which I'm currently grinding or playing more, but certainly for some types of tanks - heavies, assault TDs and lights in particular - it felt like there were genuine options to consider and try out. That's been a big plus.

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Definitely more options and interestingly it appears to have shaken up the vision meta a noticeable amount. There have between a few times I've wondered htf I got spotted, as well as noted how blind some tanks have been, especially some meds that are likely running mobility vstab rammer.

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2 hours ago, Ezz said:

as well as noted how blind some tanks have been, especially some meds that are likely running mobility vstab rammer.

Same! This has been the most noticeable gameplay change for me. People are running a lot of things over optics & it's super funny seeing how blind some tanks end up being without them. Most people aren't tryharding with food and 5 skill crews so you end up running into a lot of sub-400 VR meds.

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I'm too stingy to start shelling out 200k-600k until there's an equipment sale, so I went down to tier 2-4 to do a lot of testing where everything is only 50k a piece. The selection is a lot smaller too. But thus far my impression is that mobility helps e v e r y t h i n g .

Some tanks, one piece is a no-brainer because there's a particular limit in the way. For example, the T-80 has always been an interesting but lackluster tier 4 light tank. It has very good agility, but the top speed and horsepower have always capped it. Slap on a turbocharger and it just smooths out the tank's flaws and balances it out. The BT-SV is a good tank but awkward because its hull traverse is low compared to its speed. Put on grousers and it's noticeably easier to handle, while still getting to speed faster.

On other tanks, both pieces becomes really worthwhile. I haven't played the Pak40 in years because it's absurdly slow, but adding both pieces makes it playable again, blazing around the map at a pulse-pounding 25 kph. A guy on foot could barely even outrun you now.

Mobility really is always a win too, because I know when I'm low tier the last thing I want is a fast top tier coming at me, and when you get stuck as the fodder extra speed lets you pick your battles a lot more.

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I've had a blast running other setups other than the R/VS/O combo but it does hurt losing out on VR, especially in mid-late game where you'll need to outspot something.

Obj. 277: Rammer/Vstab/Grousers

The grousers made the straight-line warrior move a lot better. I could reasonably beat heavies and even a good chunk of mediums to spots already, but the bettery mobility also meant I'm more nimbler in micropositioning.

M48/T110E5: Rammer/VStab/Turbo

These tanks are hardcapped by how slow they are, so the turbo helps them a lot. I can finally move around in the 40/15 I've felt the E5 always deserved. The mobility slot on the M48 makes it so you can finally reach 50kph, the reverse speed of 23kkph is also amazing when peeking ridges, and I don't lose out too much on VR with the M48 since I stacked its skills already. The E5 relies less on VR so I'm not as bothered losing Optics for it.

T110E3: IRM/Turbo/Hardening

I completely dropped rammer on this thing. I didn't find the extra 2 seconds to be that appealing since I'm a boomstick tank anyway. The IRM helps with the dispersion and micropositioning (even moreso since it can go in the firepower slot), Turbo so I wouldn't be massively gimped getting to my flank early game and I can still reasonably flex mid-late (it goes the same speed as an E-100), and Hardening so I can be even more of a brick than I already am, plus the track bonuses help a lot when people try to do the ol' track-and-spank. Certainly been a lot more enjoyable than pre 1.10.

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1 hour ago, ZXrage said:

M48/T110E5: Rammer/VStab/Turbo

These tanks are hardcapped by how slow they are, so the turbo helps them a lot. I can finally move around in the 40/15 I've felt the E5 always deserved. The mobility slot on the M48 makes it so you can finally reach 50kph, the reverse speed of 23kkph is also amazing when peeking ridges, and I don't lose out too much on VR with the M48 since I stacked its skills already. The E5 relies less on VR so I'm not as bothered losing Optics for it. 

I've been playing the M48 quite a bit because I just seem to enjoy playing the Pattons, and can agree that the Turbo really, really helps it out. Going 50 and with good power-to-weight ratio means that you can finally outpace things like Cheiftans in straight lines and are competitive with other meds in getting to key locations. I was previously running Vents/Rammer/Optics on my M48, so now running Turbo in the mobility slot with a Rammer and Optics. I'm too stingy to run food, but realised that with nothing better to buy with those stupid anniversary coins, that you can buy Optics directives, so I now run those which means I only lost about 5-6m view range from dropping Vents in the improved slot. Feels pretty good, although I've struggled to nail any really good games in it since, but it seems like I smoothed out more of those bad games because you can get to important locations more often and/or relocate better.

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Hello, it is I, the writer of the massive document.

Surprised to see that it was posted here of all places. And not surprised to see that I got actual brain damage reading Wanderjar's comments.

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52 minutes ago, Overlord_Prime said:

Hello, it is I, the writer of the massive document.

Surprised to see that it was posted here of all places. And not surprised to see that I got actual brain damage reading Wanderjar's comments.

Have you updated your doc with the results of testing?

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2 hours ago, sr360 said:

Have you updated your doc with the results of testing?

The only update the document has received was an entire rewrite to CVS and the theorycrafting behind it which was completed 2~3 weeks ago.

It is the most comprehensive and in-depth analysis for CVS in the world at the moment. As far as I'm aware there is no other resource that has correctly explained CVS and its interactions with in-game bush mechanics correctly.

The vast majority of the document needed no revisions as it was almost entirely correct. There are some reservations as to how grousers truly work but that's for another time. The only thing I can think of is further analysis using vents as a firepower piece of equipment in the eGLD, IRM, IAU, and VS comparisons. But generally anyone who's watched my stream knows that the IAU is outclassed by Bond Vents - leaving its only viability towards accuracy stacking with vents or use on tanks with the firepower bonus.

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3 hours ago, Overlord_Prime said:

The only update the document has received was an entire rewrite to CVS and the theorycrafting behind it which was completed 2~3 weeks ago.

It is the most comprehensive and in-depth analysis for CVS in the world at the moment. As far as I'm aware there is no other resource that has correctly explained CVS and its interactions with in-game bush mechanics correctly.

The vast majority of the document needed no revisions as it was almost entirely correct. There are some reservations as to how grousers truly work but that's for another time. The only thing I can think of is further analysis using vents as a firepower piece of equipment in the eGLD, IRM, IAU, and VS comparisons. But generally anyone who's watched my stream knows that the IAU is outclassed by Bond Vents - leaving its only viability towards accuracy stacking with vents or use on tanks with the firepower bonus.

Thank you, CVS was the main piece I wanted to see analysis on. I concur: IAU sucks in general. I haven't really found much use for one despite extensive experimentation -- the SU-130PM is the only tank I'm running it on now (soft tank that tries to keep distance, mediocre accuracy, can't mount vents).

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1 hour ago, sr360 said:

Thank you, CVS was the main piece I wanted to see analysis on. I concur: IAU sucks in general. I haven't really found much use for one despite extensive experimentation -- the SU-130PM is the only tank I'm running it on now (soft tank that tries to keep distance, mediocre accuracy, can't mount vents).

What are you dropping to run it? I have to imagine that GLD far outstrips IAU even if you just want raw accuracy, but sr360 not using turbo on everything that can equip it sounds like heresy!

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49 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

What are you dropping to run it? I have to imagine that GLD far outstrips IAU even if you just want raw accuracy, but sr360 not using turbo on everything that can equip it sounds like heresy!

Ahem, IRM/Turbo/IAU is my 130PM setup. Still need to figure out whether this is the best loadout, but that's what I have on it now.

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22 hours ago, Overlord_Prime said:

Hello, it is I, the writer of the massive document.

Surprised to see that it was posted here of all places. And not surprised to see that I got actual brain damage reading Wanderjar's comments.

Thanks OP :foreveralone: i guess? that tends to be the normal reaction to my posts in one form or another

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On 9/6/2020 at 6:46 AM, Wanderjar said:

Thanks OP :foreveralone: i guess? that tends to be the normal reaction to my posts in one form or another

No offense of course, but you do spew a lot of stuff with no deeper interpretation or understanding for how the mechanics works.

As for how IRM and VStab works or any dispersion decreasing equipment/skill:

WqbNRpB.png

If you simplify it just a single dispersion value for explanation's sake:

XAgJSG9.png

If you include dispersion reducing equipment with x%, it decreases dispersion by the listed value or (1-x) in calculations:

TsHylTz.png

If you have Vertical Stabilizer or IRM in this case it would decrease the dispersion for any type by 10% or in this case 90% of the original value before doing the calculations for bloom (such as the squaring).

You state earlier that IRM (and by extension VS) divides the bloom penalty (everything under the square root) by (1+Equipment) which using that calculation would make your gun more accurate.

Also, if you analyze dispersion formula further, you'll find that any dispersion penalty reducing equipment and skill is relatively useless at low dispersion values. This is why slowly peeking corners by pressing R once or barely moving your turret can be used to mitigate the lack of VS or IRM if you're trying to play with alternative equipment instead.

I don't mind if someone says I'm wrong about stuff. But if you're gonna say I'm wrong about something and then spew out wrong information yourself, you're doing yourself a serious disservice to your own credibility.

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6 hours ago, Overlord_Prime said:

No offense of course, but you do spew a lot of stuff with no deeper interpretation or understanding for how the mechanics works.

As for how IRM and VStab works or any dispersion decreasing equipment/skill:

img-de7c1f2bc09c437e.png

If you simplify it just a single dispersion value for explanation's sake:

img-c58617ac6af1cf1c.png

If you include dispersion reducing equipment with x%, it decreases dispersion by the listed value or (1-x) in calculations:

img-9157604b6d05e68b.png

If you have Vertical Stabilizer or IRM in this case it would decrease the dispersion for any type by 10% or in this case 90% of the original value before doing the calculations for bloom (such as the squaring).

You state earlier that IRM (and by extension VS) divides the bloom penalty (everything under the square root) by (1+Equipment) which using that calculation would make your gun more accurate.

Also, if you analyze dispersion formula further, you'll find that any dispersion penalty reducing equipment and skill is relatively useless at low dispersion values. This is why slowly peeking corners by pressing R once or barely moving your turret can be used to mitigate the lack of VS or IRM if you're trying to play with alternative equipment instead.

I don't mind if someone says I'm wrong about stuff. But if you're gonna say I'm wrong about something and then spew out wrong information yourself, you're doing yourself a serious disservice to your own credibility.

None taken. that's how we learn.

That's pretty much what I was saying though, just that I screwed up the IRM placement by applying it to the whole instead of specifically to the hull disp. i agree with the rest of that completely though as it tracks with what i've been seeing on the spreadsheets. and yeah low speed poking basically mitigates all bloom

tldr dont post or think too hard when you're tired. well said

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Have been testing out the Sconq with hardening, vents and turbo

Pros:

  • Can now stomp medium lanes due to combo of gundep, armour, HP and firepower
  • Somewhat better at avoiding arty due to higher reverse speed
  • 2640 HP
  • Can't be 1 shot tracked except by big guns

Cons:

  • DPM is thrown down the gutter
  • .10 turret bloom
  • Manages to get even more arty focus than before due to your reaching hulldown locations more consistently
  • Still gets arty penned. 

Trying the E5 with the exact same set-up as well since that has .6 turret bloom and doesn't get quite so much arty focus. I call it the budget 4201, and who knows? Losing the rammer for extra speed/HP might be useful for ranked, where engagements are slower and campier.

Edit: E5 is better with the same set up due to better platform and bully potential. thanks to 1.10 buffs you can run any equipment set up of your choice and still be reasonably effective. I prefer hardening + turbo for maximum flexibility, but dropping hardening for rammer should be the better choice for better players - unless - like me, you enjoy playing your E5 like an IS-7 (randomly rushing people midgame is glorious and wins games)

 

 

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So, what for the box tanks (got a box tank mission left, so doing some VK-P / VK-B, Maus(chen)

  • VK-P, the gun handling is not that good, so i pref to keep vents (for now)
  • VK-B, gun handling is ok, but not good enough without stab, so im thinking of dropping vents for turbo (it goes 30km, but hardly reaches it, and reverse speed is also poor, with turbo it should move overall better)
  • Mausschen, gun handling is rly good, so im thinking of dropping V-stab for IRM, the slow-ass turning is a big con, and vents for hardening? (gonna make my mission harder though :( )
  • Maus, same as mauschen i guess? IH / Rammer / IRM?

(on last 3 tanks i have a 3 skill crew with bia)

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Just played an all tier ten random in my Sheridan (!) and was top xp on my team, almost top dmg, and the Sher on other team also had top xp, almost top damage. You didnt use to see Sheridans do well...

I was running CVS, optics, LNES, he was running CVS, optics, Vstab

That +6 to camo with LNES seems to improve the Sheridan a lot, as the camo was one of its weak points. Food for thought.

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