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Equipment 2.0 Builds

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On 9/17/2020 at 11:08 PM, sr360 said:

I'm almost thinking IRM/Turbo/hardening for the HP boost and improved repair speed... 

I'll take a look at that, but I wonder if the aimtime will suffer. One of the reasons I like ELGD is because it keeps the aimtime less than the inter-clip time.

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56 minutes ago, FavreFan4ever said:

I'll take a look at that, but I wonder if the aimtime will suffer. One of the reasons I like ELGD is because it keeps the aimtime less than the inter-clip time.

Fair point, drop hardening for GLD.

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Been trying to 'fix' the WZ 132-1 (which I bought in a moment of madness when I realized I had the free xp). It has a derpy gun and is otherwise solid but unremarkable in any way. Ok, the turret might bounce a shot or two each match, but it excels at nothing.

First I tried optics/rammer/vents and (with food) managed to roflstomp the 2 line on Prok, out-camoing everything in the roadside bushes during a slow advance, for a 9.5k spotting dmg game. So that works; it does well at spotting damage, but it all goes wrong when using the gun - easy to miss, many non pens, and often get spotted/dead for daring to open fire.

After a brief flirt with optics/vents/vstab - which didnt do enough for the dispersion to warrant keeping that build, I am currently running optics/vents/LNES, which seems to allow me to stay unspotted for shots taken at long ranges, which is a plus. 

Any better ideas? I struggle to win 50%, my average assisted is more than my average dmg, and I'd like to find EITHER the definitive bandaid for this tank, OR give it a specialization among tier ten lights - something it does better than the rest. 

And **** more EBRs.

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1 hour ago, Gryphon_ said:

Been trying to 'fix' the WZ 132-1 (which I bought in a moment of madness when I realized I had the free xp). It has a derpy gun and is otherwise solid but unremarkable in any way. Ok, the turret might bounce a shot or two each match, but it excels at nothing.

First I tried optics/rammer/vents and (with food) managed to roflstomp the 2 line on Prok, out-camoing everything in the roadside bushes during a slow advance, for a 9.5k spotting dmg game. So that works; it does well at spotting damage, but it all goes wrong when using the gun - easy to miss, many non pens, and often get spotted/dead for daring to open fire.

After a brief flirt with optics/vents/vstab - which didnt do enough for the dispersion to warrant keeping that build, I am currently running optics/vents/LNES, which seems to allow me to stay unspotted for shots taken at long ranges, which is a plus. 

Any better ideas? I struggle to win 50%, my average assisted is more than my average dmg, and I'd like to find EITHER the definitive bandaid for this tank, OR give it a specialization among tier ten lights - something it does better than the rest. 

And **** more EBRs.

Sorry to say it, but it does nothing better than the rest. The gun is supposedly its selling point, but it has the same alpha as the Manticore and EBR, and if you try to compensate for its abysmal handling you weaken your vision game. But, at the same time, it sucks at the vision game. Well, comparatively. It can't out-active the EBR, it can't outpassive the Manticore. It can't be an all-rounder like the T-100LT, and it doesn't have the gigaderp and brutal VR of the Sheridan or the clip of the 13 105. Its basically competing with the RhmPz for worst TX LT.

The problem is that the current TXLT meta is "counter EBR and then progress from there". It is probably the worst LT in the class for countering EBRs, since it VR advantage over them is negated by its significant mobility and camo disadvantage. Sure, you can throw on LNES, but you're still inferior to the 100LT, and with worse gun handling. Basically, you're still losing the arms race vs the 100, which is basically the only non-EBR LT that is competitive at tier.

In short, I've given up on trying to tweak it. It doesn't work.

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16 hours ago, sr360 said:

Sorry to say it, but it does nothing better than the rest. The gun is supposedly its selling point, but it has the same alpha as the Manticore and EBR, and if you try to compensate for its abysmal handling you weaken your vision game. But, at the same time, it sucks at the vision game. Well, comparatively. It can't out-active the EBR, it can't outpassive the Manticore. It can't be an all-rounder like the T-100LT, and it doesn't have the gigaderp and brutal VR of the Sheridan or the clip of the 13 105. Its basically competing with the RhmPz for worst TX LT.

The problem is that the current TXLT meta is "counter EBR and then progress from there". It is probably the worst LT in the class for countering EBRs, since it VR advantage over them is negated by its significant mobility and camo disadvantage. Sure, you can throw on LNES, but you're still inferior to the 100LT, and with worse gun handling. Basically, you're still losing the arms race vs the 100, which is basically the only non-EBR LT that is competitive at tier.

In short, I've given up on trying to tweak it. It doesn't work.

I think you are right. I see its advantages only as 246 pen, a HEAT prem round, and a turret that seems to bounce at least once per game. 

I'll stick with LNES (in primary slot) for now as, through in game messaging to discuss LT eqpt I've found that many players havent changed anything since 0.9. With LNES fitted, it has more camo than any non-LNES LT. Using +8% camo the total camo is in the low 40's with food, and that really helps.

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17 hours ago, sr360 said:

Its basically competing with the RhmPz for worst TX LT.

According to my 200% scientific and mathematically sound method of finding the best and worst tanks of each class,
the WZ is in fact the worst TX LT of them all. It's a fact.

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7 hours ago, Gryphon_ said:

I think you are right. I see its advantages only as 246 pen, a HEAT prem round, and a turret that seems to bounce at least once per game. 

I'll stick with LNES (in primary slot) for now as, through in game messaging to discuss LT eqpt I've found that many players havent changed anything since 0.9. With LNES fitted, it has more camo than any non-LNES LT. Using +8% camo the total camo is in the low 40's with food, and that really helps.

I checked, and my T-100LT still has more camo without LNES than my 132-1 with LNES in the slot. Not by much - 0.7% or so - but the 132-1 had to give up something to get T-100LT level camo.

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4 hours ago, sr360 said:

I checked, and my T-100LT still has more camo without LNES than my 132-1 with LNES in the slot. Not by much - 0.7% or so - but the 132-1 had to give up something to get T-100LT level camo.

Comparing the base tanks, to avoid any errors due to crew, improved eqpt, paint, etc, from tanks.gg I see WZ starts with 15.96 and T100LT with 19.84. So, if the WZ uses LNES, its on 15.96 + 8 = 23.96 before the rest.

I'm starting to think that LNES >> CVS, which might be a hypothesis that Overlord Prime might want to look at. Especially for the moving enemies case:

Case 1: A straight add of +8% (LNES in primary slot) to own camo seems more advantageous than a factor of -12.5% (CVS) to moving enemies camo, unless the moving enemies have camo of 64% or more, which isnt possible.

Case 2: For enemies that are bushed, a straight add to own camo of +8% (LNES in primary slot) is more advantageous than a factor of -20% to bushed enemies camo until the total camo of the bushed enemies is 40%. Now, 40% is easily achieved by bushcamper TDs, mediums, and of course lights. Here, CVS would be preferable to LNES.

Case 3: For static campers in open (STRV) CVS does nothing - LNES does.

So at this point I'm pretty sure LNES is preferable to CVS for non-bushed enemies. Further analysis would be good.

 

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20 hours ago, Panzergraf said:

According to my 200% scientific and mathematically sound method of finding the best and worst tanks of each class,
the WZ is in fact the worst TX LT of them all. It's a fact.

Interesting. As a result, I took a look at the MOE stats needed to 3 mark the t10 lights on wotgarage.net. The significance of this approach is that the MOE stats include the contributions of all players, whereas replay stats only include those replays uploaded.

In order ('hardest' to 'easiest') in terms of combined damage needed to 3-mark:

  1. EBR: 5304
  2. AMX13-105: 4898
  3. Sheridan: 4770
  4. WZ132-1: 4691
  5. Manticore: 4609
  6. Panzerwagon: 4495
  7. T100LT: 4445

So, if the WZ is the worst t10 light, why is it mid pack in terms of the combined dmg needed to 3-mark it? Why is T100LT the lowest in terms of combined dmg?

EDIT: other posts on this forum claim that wotgarage.net data on MOE isnt accurate. So please disregard this post. We'll take the discussion on how the WZ132-1 compares to another thread, and continue to discuss equipment here.

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Gryphon_ said:

Comparing the base tanks, to avoid any errors due to crew, improved eqpt, paint, etc, from tanks.gg I see WZ starts with 15.96 and T100LT with 19.84. So, if the WZ uses LNES, its on 15.96 + 8 = 23.96 before the rest.

I'm starting to think that LNES >> CVS, which might be a hypothesis that Overlord Prime might want to look at. Especially for the moving enemies case:

Case 1: A straight add of +8% (LNES in primary slot) to own camo seems more advantageous than a factor of -12.5% (CVS) to moving enemies camo, unless the moving enemies have camo of 64% or more, which isnt possible.

Case 2: For enemies that are bushed, a straight add to own camo of +8% (LNES in primary slot) is more advantageous than a factor of -20% to bushed enemies camo until the total camo of the bushed enemies is 40%. Now, 40% is easily achieved by bushcamper TDs, mediums, and of course lights. Here, CVS would be preferable to LNES.

Case 3: For static campers in open (STRV) CVS does nothing - LNES does.

So at this point I'm pretty sure LNES is preferable to CVS for non-bushed enemies. Further analysis would be good.

 

Two points:

1. While your base analysis is correct, you have to factor in camo skill etc, which potentiates base camo. LNES adds on at the end, so the extra 3% base that the 100 had ends up at >8% better. And I’m certainly not running a TX LT base without camo skill and equipment!

2. OP already has clarified that LNES>CVS for open spotting, and CVS>LNES for spotting behind bushes. If you knew which map you were playing (as happens in competitive play) you could theoretically pick and choose your equipment. There are maps where CVS just breaks the map open (see Prok) and map where LNES is far better (see Sand River). 

9 hours ago, Gryphon_ said:

Interesting. As a result, I took a look at the MOE stats needed to 3 mark the t10 lights on wotgarage.net. The significance of this approach is that the MOE stats include the contributions of all players, whereas replay stats only include those replays uploaded.

In order ('hardest' to 'easiest') in terms of combined damage needed to 3-mark:

  1. EBR: 5304
  2. AMX13-105: 4898
  3. Sheridan: 4770
  4. WZ132-1: 4691
  5. Manticore: 4609
  6. Panzerwagon: 4495
  7. T100LT: 4445

So, if the WZ is the worst t10 light, why is it mid pack in terms of the combined dmg needed to 3-mark it? Why is T100LT the lowest in terms of combined dmg?

 

 

 

WoTgarage iirc is RU server stats, and perhaps all the Russian potatoes gravitate to the RULT depressing its numbers.

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18 hours ago, Gryphon_ said:

Comparing the base tanks, to avoid any errors due to crew, improved eqpt, paint, etc, from tanks.gg I see WZ starts with 15.96 and T100LT with 19.84. So, if the WZ uses LNES, its on 15.96 + 8 = 23.96 before the rest.

I'm starting to think that LNES >> CVS, which might be a hypothesis that Overlord Prime might want to look at. Especially for the moving enemies case:

Case 1: A straight add of +8% (LNES in primary slot) to own camo seems more advantageous than a factor of -12.5% (CVS) to moving enemies camo, unless the moving enemies have camo of 64% or more, which isnt possible.

Case 2: For enemies that are bushed, a straight add to own camo of +8% (LNES in primary slot) is more advantageous than a factor of -20% to bushed enemies camo until the total camo of the bushed enemies is 40%. Now, 40% is easily achieved by bushcamper TDs, mediums, and of course lights. Here, CVS would be preferable to LNES.

Case 3: For static campers in open (STRV) CVS does nothing - LNES does.

So at this point I'm pretty sure LNES is preferable to CVS for non-bushed enemies. Further analysis would be good.

 

I think I already touched up on this a few pages back. LNES is significantly better than CVS when it comes to view range control in open spotting scenarios.

There was supposed to be a section in my document about using LNES to counter CVS but I scrapped it after realizing it would add another 2~3 pages. The gist is that you're able to use LNES to reach a critical camo value to render CVS useless for bush spotters because you reach the critical camo value of ~42%. The reasoning why it's bad though is you're wasting an equipment slot when there are already other vehicles in the game capable of hitting that critical camo level without LNES - at which point you're wasting an equipment slot to equalize the vehicles and effectively putting your vehicle 1 equipment slot down.

As said earlier, in non-bushed or open spotting scenario, LNES > CVS simply because CVS has no huge impactful effect on camouflage of vehicles  on its own and this extends to the camouflage added from LNES to your vehicle.

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So for something like the AMX 13 105, I've got CVS in the slot, Bond optics, and (for now) a Turbrocharger. Camo value right now is around 36ish, which is poor for a tier X LT, and the above discussion has me considering dropping Turbro for LNES

Pro: Can become a more dedicated scout on all maps, allowing for easier active spotting should the situation require it. Puts me on a more even scale with T100LTs and EBRs.

Con: Less mobility means less flexibility, which is what I need in order to offset the weaknesses of the gun. With other LTs being better at active spotting I can play against tanks I can leverage mobility and camo against.

Thoughts?

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4 hours ago, FavreFan4ever said:

So for something like the AMX 13 105, I've got CVS in the slot, Bond optics, and (for now) a Turbrocharger. Camo value right now is around 36ish, which is poor for a tier X LT, and the above discussion has me considering dropping Turbro for LNES

Pro: Can become a more dedicated scout on all maps, allowing for easier active spotting should the situation require it. Puts me on a more even scale with T100LTs and EBRs.

Con: Less mobility means less flexibility, which is what I need in order to offset the weaknesses of the gun. With other LTs being better at active spotting I can play against tanks I can leverage mobility and camo against.

Thoughts?

Depends on how you play it. Crab and I are playing it more like a baby batchat, and we run optics/VS/turbo giving it the flexibility to be less of a scout and more of a combat tank, basically playing up a strength rather than mitigate a weakness. The full scout loadout would be CVS/optics/LNE but then you've basically wasted its clip/gun which is its standout compared to other LTs at tier.

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FV215b might actually benefit from the Improved Configuration more than Hardening because of the sheer amount of module damage it takes. I've played 9-10 games in it and at least 4 I've been tracked and lost my engine in the same shot. There's a lot of modules packed into the front of that tank.

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For (high tier) scouts, u can now mount Optics (i guess still default), CVS, to beat bush, LNES, to buff camo and the thing that gives u 2 sec extra time when u spot ppl, is CVS actually worth it?

(and, does CVS stack with itself? it removes camo (from bush) and camo when moving, so when u move through bush, does it help twice? (i assume it does, given that movement camo is different as bush camo)

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3 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

For (high tier) scouts, u can now mount Optics (i guess still default), CVS, to beat bush, LNES, to buff camo and the thing that gives u 2 sec extra time when u spot ppl, is CVS actually worth it?

(and, does CVS stack with itself? it removes camo (from bush) and camo when moving, so when u move through bush, does it help twice? (i assume it does, given that movement camo is different as bush camo)

Yes, it stacks twice for movement behind bushes.

Is it worth it? Depends on the map. It is useless in many maps (sand river, highway, Malinovka field, city maps) and completely game breaking on others (Prok especially, but also the bush line on Pilsen, the forests in Malinovka and Murovanka). 

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What's the loadout for the Bourrasque post 1.10? I run double handling (VStab+IRM) and Vents atm but the shitty part of the tank is the final accuracy and aim-time. Is it worth dropping IRM for GLD/IAU?

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6 hours ago, ZXrage said:

What's the loadout for the Bourrasque post 1.10? I run double handling (VStab+IRM) and Vents atm but the shitty part of the tank is the final accuracy and aim-time. Is it worth dropping IRM for GLD/IAU?

No, no, no! Optics are mandatory, because you can easily hit 500 VR with food and a good crew, and it has the camo and mobility to make that work. The bloom is so low that you can easily drop VS if you wish to emphasize something else. The problem with running GLD/IAU/VS is that you've basically become a one-trick pony. I run IRM/iVents/iOptics, but switching out IRM for turbo or VS or IAU are all viable options. At your usual engagement ranges, the final accuracy shouldn't matter.

Having said that, there are players who've made a gun centered tank and made it work, but I feel that is down to their skill rather than the equipment loadout.

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What for 50TP? (the t9 polak tank)

I put rammer / stab / vents first, to see how that goes (dont have top engine or turret yet) in doubt about hardening / irm (or turbo) but what to pick? (i run turbo on IS4 and E5 for example, but hardening on 53tp and IS3)

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1 hour ago, sr360 said:

No, no, no! Optics are mandatory, because you can easily hit 500 VR with food and a good crew, and it has the camo and mobility to make that work. The bloom is so low that you can easily drop VS if you wish to emphasize something else. The problem with running GLD/IAU/VS is that you've basically become a one-trick pony. I run IRM/iVents/iOptics, but switching out IRM for turbo or VS or IAU are all viable options. At your usual engagement ranges, the final accuracy shouldn't matter.

Having said that, there are players who've made a gun centered tank and made it work, but I feel that is down to their skill rather than the equipment loadout.

The Bourrasque's trick is so strong that it can perform better than every other tier 8 just by hobbling along with it as a crutch. It's not like the tank is blind anyway and 450 ish VR is good enough on most maps

@ZXrage https://tanks.gg/tank/bourrasque?e=W.Z.U&k=0.1.2.3.4.a.9.7.b.c&l=000001&c=b.-1.-1 

sr360's set-up: https://tanks.gg/tank/bourrasque?e=W.Z.Y&k=0.1.2.3.4.a.9.7.c&l=000001&c=b.-1.-1

Optics should be stronger but IRM will be comfier given the tank's slowish traverse.

 

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Bourrasque seems disgustingly strong (compared to lights and soft armored). It spots like a light on the move, when stationary it outspots them, low pen still butters the softs. Drive by shootings are uncounterable and are for ~1/2 HP.

Its min maxed in a way that kinda fucks over anything light right?

It also seems to show WG's utter contempt for scouts as a class.

That aside; optics over CVS?

 

Various builds

PM10 E2.0; IRM vents rammer, nice t7 med

Tiger1 E2.0; IRM/GLD/Turbo, or IRM/Turbo/Ram, firepower isn't really tiger problem, fixes acc and adds speed, Tiger always too slow

WZ-131&132 haven't really changed

Cents5/1 IRM rammer vstab & 7/1 - can finally snap

Yolotiger, HT6 with grousers/turbo/rammer, play fast and loose, it has a bad rep, but I'm seeing a pretty easy 1.4k DPG atm.

 

Also optics + cvs ftw

Screenshot_1287.png

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So as the next ranked is upon us, are any of the new equipment options for scouts actually competitively useful? I've not experimented much at all but from what I can tell a lot of the standard improved equipment will still be better choices. Curious whether running my t100 or ebr with any of the funky new stuff is worth it. Eg exchanging a rammer or something.

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Yes, they are. The choice depends on the scout and what how you choose to play it.

LNES on an EBR for example, makes the EBR better able to execute a spotting run without being spotted by the inevitable enemy EBR. You could go with rammer Vents optics, but that would be a combat build which loses vision— that might work for some, question of playstyle.

The 100LT is super interesting. It doesn’t need VS so I run it with CVS ioptics and ivents. I need to look at the Ranked map pool, because CVS is very map dependent. One could use rammer or LNES instead, but I’ve been enjoying randoms with CVS.

13 105 needs IVS and iOptics. I run turbo as 3rd to give it the pep, but LNES or Vents are valid.

Manticore is VS and Optics to begin with. Rammer helps but the DPM will still be abysmal. CVS or Turbo or LNES are also valid options.

Sheriderp is optics IVS IRM for the double gun handling boost, or vents for optics if you want to go all gun.

I haven’t played around with the 132-1 or Rhm yet.

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