New Tech Tree Tank Rebalance (140/E50M/121 ect.)

[Deus__Ex__Machina 989]

source:  https://vk.com/wotclue?w=wall-70226354_3265659

Changes for Object 140 ( USSR, ST-10, upgradeable):
• Elevation angles: from -6 to -7
• Hull forehead armor (clean): from 100 to 110 mm.
• VLD armor: from 237 reduced armor to 260 mm.

CHINA:

Changes for 121 (China, ST-10, pumpable). The changes will probably be described in more detail later.
• Penetration with a basic AP shell: from 258 to 262
• Tank durability: from 1950 to 2050
• Engine power: from 580 to 650
• Projectile speed: from 1000/1000/1000 to 1115/907/907
• Reduced armor of the frontal hull plate: from 240 to 270 mm.

Changes for 113 ( China, TT-10, collectible):
Gun 1 - 122 mm 60-122T
• Flight speed of the main projectile: from 950 to 800
• Flight speed of a special (gold) projectile: from 950 to 640
• Flight speed of a high-explosive projectile: from 950 to 800

Changes for WZ-120 ( China, ST-9, upgradeable):
• Tank repair cost: from 16.401 to 17.395
Suspension 1 - WZ-120
• Dispersion on movement (max.): From 0.18 (10.08) to 0.18 (10.80)
Suspension 2 - WZ-120 model 3 (TOP)
• Dispersion on movement (max.): From 0.16 (8.96) by 0.16 (9.60)
Tower 1 - WZ-120
• Tank durability: from 1550 to 1650
Tower 2 - WZ-120-1 (TOP)
• Tank durability: from 1650 to 1750
Gun 4 - 122 mm 60-122T (TOP)
• Loading of the gun: from 11.51 to 10.55
• Rate of fire: from 5.21 to 5.69
• Dispersion on turret traverse (max.): From 0.16 (7.01) to 0.14 (6.13)
• Average damage per minute: from 2.295 to 2.503
• Average damage per minute by HE projectile: from 2.764 to 3.015
• Flight speed of the main projectile: from 950 to 800
• Flight speed of a special (gold) projectile: from 950 to 640
• Flight speed of a high-explosive projectile: from 950 to 800
• Maximum forward speed: from 56 to 60

Changes for T-34-2 ( China, ST-8, pumpable). The changes will probably be described in more detail later.
• Tank durability: from 1300 to 1400
• Reduced armor of the frontal hull plate: from 140 to 200 mm.
Gun 3 - 100 mm 44-100JT
• Accuracy: from 0.42 to 0.4
• Reload time: from 9.1 to 8.1
•
Aiming time: from 2.9 to 2.7 Gun 4 - 122 mm 37-122JT damage from 390 to 360
• Reload time: from 15 by 12
• Accuracy: from 0.48 to 0.44
• Aiming time: from 3.1 to 2.9

Changes for T-34-1 (China, ST-7, upgradeable):
• Cost of tank repair: from 7.655 to 8.384
Tower 1 - T-34-1
• Tank strength: from 960 to 1050
Tower 2 - T-34-1 model 2 (TOP)
• Tank strength : from 1050 to 1150
Gun 3 - 100 mm 44-100JT (TOP)
• Weapon loading : from 8.92 to 7.96
• Rate of fire: from 6.73 to 7.54
• Aiming time: from 2.78 to 2.59
• Dispersion at 100 m: from 0.40 to 0.38
•
Dispersion on turret traverse (max.): From 0.16 (7.34) to 0.14 (6.42) • Average damage per minute: from 1.682 to 1.885
• Average damage per minute from an HE shell: from 2.221 to 2.488

GERMANY:

E 50 Ausf. M ( Germany, ST-10, upgradeable). The changes will probably be described in more detail later.
• Thickness of the reduced armor of the turret front: from 197 to 266 mm.

E 50 ( Germany, ST-9, pumpable). The changes will probably be described in more detail later.
• Reduced armor of the turret frontal plate: from 197 to 220 mm.
For the 4 - 8.8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 (pre-TOP)
• Damage: from 240 to 280
Gun 5 - 10.5 cm Kw.K. L / 52 Ausf. (TOP)
• Penetration with a basic AP shell: from 220 to 230

Panther II ( Germany, ST-8, upgradeable). The changes will probably be described in more detail later.
For the 5 - 8.8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 (TOP)
• Damage: from 240 to 280

Panther mit 8.8 cm L / 71 ( Germany, CT-8, prem). The changes will probably be described in more detail later.
• Damage: from 240 to 280

will update as better info/translation comes out

[hall0 1,095]

tl;dr

Chinese tanks will still be a much worse version of the russian counterparts
Panthers will stay shit.
E50M is weak

They had such a good opportunity to make the E50 line something special. Just give them the new turbo feature the polish have and call it a day. A boosted E50 full ramming power wouldn´t hurt the game but surely would make it fun.
And people who are concerned about realism. Not like anyone actually cares after all the fake polish tanks. German Meds with gas turbines were actually considered/planned. 

[lavawing 498]

32 minutes ago, hall0 said:

tl;dr

Chinese tanks will still be a much worse version of the russian counterparts
Panthers will stay shit.
E50M is weak

They had such a good opportunity to make the E50 line something special. Just give them the new turbo feature the polish have and call it a day. A boosted E50 full ramming power wouldn´t hurt the game but surely would make it fun.
And people who are concerned about realism. Not like anyone actually cares after all the fake polish tanks. German Meds with gas turbines were actually considered/planned. 

280 alpha without an RoF nerf will be quite dank on the E50 seriously

Chinese meds will have better firepower than their Soviet counterparts while becoming quite good at bullying

[hall0 1,095]

45 minutes ago, lavawing said:

280 alpha without an RoF nerf will be quite dank on the E50 seriously

 Chinese meds will have better firepower than their Soviet counterparts while becoming quite good at bullying

This is what people already said the last time the 88/100 got buffed into having best T9 dpm. And still noone uses it. Alpha is just too low for trading. 
 

Nahh firepower still meh. WG did not change any gun handling stats. 
Take T34-2 as example. By far the worst gun handling of all 122mm meds. 

Tank: T44 (122)  / T34-3 / T34-2

moving	0,14	0,16	0,20
tank traverse	0,14	0,16	0,20
turret traverse	0,14	0,12	0,12

And don´t bother with the 100mm. Here T44 and Type59 are better. 

And nerfing all the shell velocities must be one of the most retarded things I have seen by WG. 
After all the years finally a buff for the copycat tanks. But as we can´t have nice things, have it combined with a nerf. 

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

T-34-3 is actually ok, the really sad thing is, compare T-34-3 with T-34-2, the premium version has far better gun (like, better aim time, accuracy, less bloom and much more dpm) while also having more armour (like a lot more armour) and also more gun depression!

T-34-2 needs to be the same as the prem one, with perhaps les gun depression (its smaller tank / turret) and the 100mm should be as good as T44 (hint, it isnt, not at all..)

[Madner Kami 405]

51 minutes ago, hall0 said:

This is what people already said the last time the 88/100 got buffed into having best T9 dpm. And still noone uses it. Alpha is just too low for trading.

I actually prefer the 88/100 over the pseudo-L7 on E50. The DPM is just brutal and if you trade, you are playing the tank wrong. It's a bully destined to ram into the enemy and batter what is left of the target into a bloody pulp and it's FUCKING FUN.

[hall0 1,095]

if you play the 88/100 over the L7 you are playing the tank wrong. 

[Madner Kami 405]

That is an opinion. Maybe this is one of the few tanks, that can actually offer multiple playstyles...

[Kymrel 185]

Reducing the shell velocity of the Chinese tanks is a kick in the mouth though. The more I play, the more I appreciate the value of good shell velocity.

[simba90 100]

8 hours ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

source:  https://vk.com/wotclue?w=wall-70226354_3265659

Changes for Object 140 ( USSR, ST-10, upgradeable):
• Elevation angles: from -6 to -7

 

 

Er, are we just going to pretend this isn't happening?

(Unless I've misread this, I read that its getting a gun depression buff)

[Assassin7 4,353]

I read this, and all I can think of is "well now thats again less reason to bother loading standard ammo into any of your tanks"

 

Also wtf the 140 getting a gun depression buff lmao?  Why? Just why? But not only that, but its yet again just leaving the 62A even further behind than it already is. 

(Also with this buff itll pretty much confirm my longstanding opinion of 140>907)

[Rexxie 10,788]

...but why the 140? I get why the E-50M and 121 line is getting changes, but the 140 seems thrown in there at random. It doesn't need buffs? Why does the UFP suddenly need to be just enough that every T10 standard round will randomly bounce off it half the time. It already has good winrate. Why not the 62A or K-91? Are they throwing darts at a board?

[Madner Kami 405]

1 hour ago, simba90 said:

Er, are we just going to pretend this isn't happening?

(Unless I've misread this, I read that its getting a gun depression buff)

It's a russian tank recieving an unneccessary random buff. It's par for the course, status quo, a thing that we'd wonder about if it weren't happening.

33 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

 Are they throwing darts at a board?

Is that a rethorical question?

[sohojacques 271]

I suspect the endless armour buffs at tier 10 are going to recreate the misery of 3-5-7mm for tier 8. Too many tanks you have no real hope of penning. So if your tier 10s suck...

[Assassin7 4,353]

1 hour ago, sohojacques said:

I suspect the endless armour buffs at tier 10 are going to recreate the misery of 3-5-7mm for tier 8. Too many tanks you have no real hope of penning. So if your tier 10s suck...

Its exactly whats happening. 

 

They've been buffing and buffing pretty much only tier 10s for the last ~3 years, while completely ignoring almost everything below tier 9. The jump in power from even tier 9-10 is now becoming completely absurd. 

[Ogopogo 55]

5 hours ago, hall0 said:

This is what people already said the last time the 88/100 got buffed into having best T9 dpm. And still noone uses it. Alpha is just too low for trading. 

 

Eh, the 88/l100 is decent enough that you certainly aren't kneecapping yourself if you use it though the 105 was the "better" way to play technically. That said, I think you're underestimating how good its going to be if it goes through without a ROF change; the E-50 with the 88/l100 will be the highest DPM tank in the game by a good 150dpm (effective with 100% crew), and rammers and skills could push 4000.

[Archaic_One 1,853]

640 m/s for a tier 10 HEAT round? FFS, thats going to be nearly unplayable unless you are doing nothing but corner brawling. 

WG has never really understood the Panther/E50 line. 

[sr360 4,988]

4 hours ago, Rexxie said:

...but why the 140? I get why the E-50M and 121 line is getting changes, but the 140 seems thrown in there at random. It doesn't need buffs? Why does the UFP suddenly need to be just enough that every T10 standard round will randomly bounce off it half the time. It already has good winrate. Why not the 62A or K-91? Are they throwing darts at a board?

The 62A is now a "collectors tank", which likely means that with its removal from the tech tree it will stay as-is. 

[monjardin 1,014]

35 minutes ago, sr360 said:

The 62A is now a "collectors tank", which likely means that with its removal from the tech tree it will stay as-is. 

The 113 is a collector's tank too and they are nerfing it. :/

[sr360 4,988]

13 minutes ago, monjardin said:

The 113 is a collector's tank too and they are nerfing it. :/

I must have missed that!

[Assassin7 4,353]

38 minutes ago, sr360 said:

The 62A is now a "collectors tank", which likely means that with its removal from the tech tree it will stay as-is. 

wait they're removing the 62A?

 

why though?

[monjardin 1,014]

15 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

wait they're removing the 62A?

 

why though?

It was already removed from the tech tree. You can still buy it in the store.

[Assassin7 4,353]

24 minutes ago, monjardin said:

It was already removed from the tech tree. You can still buy it in the store.

oh shit, when was that? I havent logged into tanks in a couple months lol

[ZXrage 1,318]

1 hour ago, Assassin7 said:

oh shit, when was that? I havent logged into tanks in a couple months lol

Like 1 or 2 patches ago, other tanks that got the same treatment were the 30 B and 113

[Assassin7 4,353]

17 minutes ago, ZXrage said:

Like 1 or 2 patches ago, other tanks that got the same treatment were the 30 B and 113

Just... why? I dont see any reason whatsoever for that to happen?