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New Tech Tree Tank Rebalance (140/E50M/121 ect.)

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15 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

BUt whyyyy - Confused Jackie Chan | Meme Generator

Just... why? I dont see any reason whatsoever for that to happen?

Tech tree streamlining, in the same patch they got rid of a shit load of low tier tanks (1-4) and other branching tech trees (you can't do the hop from T28 Prot to T28 anymore, the alternative JP II also got relegated to Collector Vehicle)

...or so they say.

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13 minutes ago, ZXrage said:

Tech tree streamlining, in the same patch they got rid of a shit load of low tier tanks (1-4) and other branching tech trees (you can't do the hop from T28 to T28 anymore, the alternative JP II also got relegated to Collector Vehicle)

...or so they say.

wait they did it in that patch?

 

uhh ok then. I actually understood the low tier changes, but removing all the high tier tanks seems completely pointless. Just removing content

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16 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

wait they did it in that patch?

 

uhh ok then. I actually understood the low tier changes, but removing all the high tier tanks seems completely pointless. Just removing content

They're not removed per-se, you need to have researched a tech tree tank of that tier in order to buy it (i.e. in order to buy the 30 B in the Collector's Vehicle tab you need to have researched a French tier X)

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So in some ways they made it easier to get it. Still think it should have remained in-tree though, and they could have made some of the Objects collector vehicles instead of the actually mass produced historical tank.

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AGAGAHAHAHHAHKSF TGHAT FUCKING CHINA 122 HEAT SHELL SPEED NERF 64) M/S 

AM
WZ-ING 

 

 

 

Good to see the 121 further solidifying its place as the best russian medium though. (430u is disowned) Having the turbo on it is already mad fun on so being able to bully people at 62 km/h is extra spicy.

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The 121 changes make it a "viable, not-absurdly-inferior" alternative to the 430U and I like it. Really wish they'd give the WZ-120 -5 depression with the 122, but I'll take what I can get. I really wasn't expecting the ROF buff.

The E50M turret changes are good, but they also really need to do something about the firepower. The ROF is extremely weak for a tier 10 med.

IDK what to do about the Panther 88. The only way to make that tank like, actually good without being stupid about it would be to just drop it down to tier 7 and nerf the HP and ROF to compensate. Like, with 280 alpha it will certainly be a hell of a lot better than it is now, but its still a panther chassis at tier 8 with 203 standard pen and like 237 gold pen without pref-MM. IDK what you can do to make that better without just artificially inflating the armor and/or pen stats.

Also I think its hilarious that the T-34-1 is getting a buff. IMO it was already the best tier 7 med in the game anyway, aside from maybe the T20.

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While all buffs for e50m and 121 lines are great news, i dont get why shell velocities nerf?!? 140 buff even though not needed, i say why not(just cause i own it and i like it), it will again feel like true russian MT when randomly bouncing shots that shouldnt bounce.

9 hours ago, SkittlesOfSteeI said:

Good to see the 121 further solidifying its place as the best russian medium though. (430u is disowned) Having the turbo on it is already mad fun on so being able to bully people at 62 km/h is extra spicy.

Can you please tell what hat do you run on 121? Turbo/vstab/rammer or turbo/rammer/fakeVstab or turbo/rammer/vents. I dont see how 121 could run without Vstab/fakeVstab, and idk if droping rammer is even an option. 

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25 minutes ago, RedwoodOriginal said:

Can you please tell what hat do you run on 121? Turbo/vstab/rammer or turbo/rammer/fakeVstab or turbo/rammer/vents. I dont see how 121 could run without Vstab/fakeVstab, and idk if droping rammer is even an option. 

The former. The gunhandling is already pretty good. I dont really expect to make ridiculous snaps but you usually have the aiming circle mostly arounf what you want to hit so I just let it fly (basically quantity over quality). Also knowing how to minimize the time you spend aiming is an incredibly useful skill. I main autoloaders so I'm already used to "bad" gun handling but theres also the t49 which is a great tank to practice on 

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2 hours ago, SkittlesOfSteeI said:

The former. The gunhandling is already pretty good. I dont really expect to make ridiculous snaps but you usually have the aiming circle mostly arounf what you want to hit so I just let it fly (basically quantity over quality). Also knowing how to minimize the time you spend aiming is an incredibly useful skill. I main autoloaders so I'm already used to "bad" gun handling but theres also the t49 which is a great tank to practice on 

Thank you! I was always a pussy not to run Vstab, even though i have bia crew with snap shot. Guess 121 will be my first turbo tank.

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36 minutes ago, RedwoodOriginal said:

Thank you! I was always a pussy not to run Vstab, even though i have bia crew with snap shot. Guess 121 will be my first turbo tank.

For the record the gun basically handles just as well as other tanks in tier unknown.png?width=1424&height=664

Only difference being the 121 has a longer aim time which doesn't really matter because for me it's incredibly rare to find myself n a position where I'm still waiting for the circle to shrink . You're guaranteed to be rocking back and forth and wiggling almost all the time. 

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On 8/7/2020 at 9:58 PM, hall0 said:

This is what people already said the last time the 88/100 got buffed into having best T9 dpm. And still noone uses it. Alpha is just too low for trading. 
 

Nahh firepower still meh. WG did not change any gun handling stats. 
Take T34-2 as example. By far the worst gun handling of all 122mm meds. 

Tank: T44 (122)  / T34-3 / T34-2

moving 0,14 0,16 0,20
tank traverse 0,14 0,16 0,20
turret traverse 0,14 0,12 0,12

And don´t bother with the 100mm. Here T44 and Type59 are better. 

And nerfing all the shell velocities must be one of the most retarded things I have seen by WG. 
After all the years finally a buff for the copycat tanks. But as we can´t have nice things, have it combined with a nerf. 

this isn't true, top players tried and used it - to similar effect but most people just wound up opting for the playstyle that lets play with less exposure, you wound up playing like a mobile tortoise with tiny alpha and this is actually a big one because a one for one is 40 instead of 80 against russian meds, and you sure as shit win the extended trade

i'm probably sticking with the 10,5 but i think not giving the 8,8 a shot is ludicrous when the potential is huge, i hate low rof low alpha because of the amount of exposure in this type of meta but that is going to be like a medium tank caern at tier 9 in damage output - and the caern wins 1v1s against actual tier 10s today still

lemme just remind people here that after the caern got this type of gun buff it went from barely 2kable to 3,5k+able - it's still a shit platform and everything but the gun sucks but the gun is enough to make the tank - russian tortoise players doing 5k per game can speak to that

 

i can't see them buffing the alpha by 40 without touching the RoF or handling at least slightly because that type of handling with that type of RoF means you'll be driving so many players batshit crazy with all the double tracking bs you can do and it'll be the only platform in the game that is mobile enough to actually play the map while doing so - it might end up being as good as the 10,5, or slightly worse but in this case I'd still call the E 50 A tier with the 8,8, only reason it's not S-tier is because it lacks a competent gold round and that doesn't change regardless of which gun you use

my guess is if you've tried the type 61 lately and figured out how to play (few have to be honest) you'll see my point, they made that thing basically shit to every other med in tier but raw dpm and it's still a top 3 farmer in the entire game - the stat doesn't matter as much until it hits that breaking point where you just can't fight it anymore and if they do this alpha buff the same will be true for the e50, just that it's also on a platform with an ability to negate damage taken in so many more ways than most tier 9 mediums (kpz excluded and tied with 430)

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If they don't touch the ROF on the E50 then the meme gun with that 280, you'll be able to push the DPM to 4.6k.

That is IMO hard to ignore. You can get the reload down to 3.6 ish s, so you can two for 1 almost anything and now will be doing 560 damage. 

Hilariously if a big alpha damage heavy like a 50tp fires (which has 560 alpha) you can put 840 damage into him and get out before he reloads (at close range). It's just absurd DPM, it's basically Tortoise DPM but on a turreted and far more mobile platform that can still bounce people.

I mean against some tier 8 meds you have the same or higher alpha but nearly twice the DPM. 

----------------------------------------------

As for the rest -

  • The WZ-120 buffs look all over the place and it will still have the worst gun depression of pretty much any med or heavy in the game.
  • The Panther 88 and the Panther 2 need far more than that to be viable. 2.5k base DPM on the Panther 88 doesn't compensate the speed, large paper armour, meh gun handling, meh pen on both rounds, and all the other crapness on that tank.
  • Not sure why the 140 needs a buff. 
  • Tanks like the Cent AX and Bat Chat just get left behind by these changes as well
  • Generally its just more armour power creep on tier 10. They have made the heaviums too much like mediums, really they need a speed, DPM and gun handling nerf, and then you don't need to keep giving more and more armour to mediums to make them competitive. 

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On 8/8/2020 at 12:16 AM, Assassin7 said:

Just... why? I dont see any reason whatsoever for that to happen?

They took a ton of tanks out of the tech tree to streamline it. It doesn't branch as much as it used to and there are far fewer low tier branches.

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Why in the fuck are they nerfing 113??

It's a fun and decent tank, but it's not a tank that can even be argued to be OP in the average player's hands, this is absolute fucking retardation.

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8 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

Why in the fuck are they nerfing 113??

It's a fun and decent tank, but it's not a tank that can even be argued to be OP in the average player's hands, this is absolute fucking retardation.

 

It's a collectors tank now IIRC so I don't think they gave a shit about those, hence why the 140 is getting buffs whilst the T-62A gets none despite being worse. 

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8 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

Why in the fuck are they nerfing 113??

It's a fun and decent tank, but it's not a tank that can even be argued to be OP in the average player's hands, this is absolute fucking retardation.

Looks like they're nerfing the gun, and the WZ-120 which has the same gun is also getting the shell velocity nerf. I thought the 121 had the same gun, but apparently not.

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The superior gun on the E50 is the 88 L/100.

This will make it even more of a fucking insane gun. Have struggled to do less than 3k with the 8.8cm, it just removes that retarded "E50 gun btw" syndrome the 105 has and also confuses the fuck out of pubbies that think its easy prey before losing half its health by the time they get to aim in.

 

Might actually go back to playing this retarded game if the E50 changes go through.

 

 

Also, the WZ-120 shell velocity nerf. Fucks sake, like that thing needed any nerfs. Just leave the buffs.

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On 8/8/2020 at 12:43 AM, Rexxie said:

...but why the 140? I get why the E-50M and 121 line is getting changes, but the 140 seems thrown in there at random. It doesn't need buffs? Why does the UFP suddenly need to be just enough that every T10 standard round will randomly bounce off it half the time. It already has good winrate. Why not the 62A or K-91? Are they throwing darts at a board?

They are using the same logic they used with the prot - different tank performance stats are not important. Just popularity

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On 8/8/2020 at 9:56 PM, SkittlesOfSteeI said:

For the record the gun basically handles just as well as other tanks in tier unknown.png?width=1424&height=664

Only difference being the 121 has a longer aim time which doesn't really matter because for me it's incredibly rare to find myself n a position where I'm still waiting for the circle to shrink . You're guaranteed to be rocking back and forth and wiggling almost all the time. 

I gave it a try with turbo. I like the mobility, but i just cant adapt to no Vstab. 121 just fires too slow to pew pew pew(unlike 140 or 62a). Its like i need that turbo to get me out of situation to safely wait for gun to reload when i miss/bounce/crithit. maybe Turbo/IRM/Rammer will be better. But with out vents my view range will be shittier, and other things too. IDK yet.

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5 hours ago, RedwoodOriginal said:

I gave it a try with turbo. I like the mobility, but i just cant adapt to no Vstab. 121 just fires too slow to pew pew pew(unlike 140 or 62a). Its like i need that turbo to get me out of situation to safely wait for gun to reload when i miss/bounce/crithit. maybe Turbo/IRM/Rammer will be better. But with out vents my view range will be shittier, and other things too. IDK yet.

wdym no vstab?

I run turbo/rammer/vstab

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3 hours ago, SkittlesOfSteeI said:

wdym no vstab?

I run turbo/rammer/vstab

Well i was confused with your later post about 121 gun handeling, and i get confused easily(just look at my stats).

Now that i mess with equipment i will try turbo/rammer/IRM. IRM seams like improved Vstab on some tanks.

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6 hours ago, RedwoodOriginal said:

Well i was confused with your later post about 121 gun handeling, and i get confused easily(just look at my stats).

Now that i mess with equipment i will try turbo/rammer/IRM. IRM seams like improved Vstab on some tanks.

Unless WG fucked up royally with their coding, the IRM won't really do anything for gun handling directly.
The reduction in dispersion on traverse is negated by the increased traverse speed, if it's a modifier of 0.9 to turret and track traverse bloom, you will have a 1% reduction in max bloom with IRM, even less if you are driving.

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1 hour ago, CandyVanMan said:

Unless WG fucked up royally with their coding, the IRM won't really do anything for gun handling directly.
The reduction in dispersion on traverse is negated by the increased traverse speed, if it's a modifier of 0.9 to turret and track traverse bloom, you will have a 1% reduction in max bloom with IRM, even less if you are driving.

It modifies bloom on movement as well, as in driving back and forth - at least that's what the ingame description says.

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1 hour ago, CandyVanMan said:

Unless WG fucked up royally with their coding, the IRM won't really do anything for gun handling directly.
The reduction in dispersion on traverse is negated by the increased traverse speed, if it's a modifier of 0.9 to turret and track traverse bloom, you will have a 1% reduction in max bloom with IRM, even less if you are driving.

I could be wrong, but on 252u seams the same as Vstab + more traverse speed, but i didnt put enoguh games in to be 100% about that, 

 

19 minutes ago, lavawing said:

It modifies bloom on movement as well, as in driving back and forth - at least that's what the ingame description says.

^ it does. I feel on 252u that bloom is almost the same as with Vstab.

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