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Deus__Ex__Machina

New Tech Tree Tank Rebalance (140/E50M/121 ect.)

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On 9/27/2020 at 4:22 PM, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

what are you smoking? 

with ideas like that ur gonna land urself a job at WG HQ

I was about to comment about the T57 having 400 HEAT and good gun handling once upon a time, but it appears I misremembered and it only had 381 HEAT. The IS-4/121/113 all did have 400 pen.

 

I've always liked the idea of the AMX 30 getting rebalanced to have a 400 HEAT round

a) it would be historically accurate

b) it would be unique if not relevant at TX

Obviously a lot would have to give to make something that over the top balanced. Worst in class DPM might be enough, given it's  existing problems (the cupola and the Leo being better almost every way in the same role).

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18 hours ago, dustygator said:

I was about to comment about the T57 having 400 HEAT and good gun handling once upon a time, but it appears I misremembered and it only had 381 HEAT. The IS-4/121/113 all did have 400 pen.

 

I've always liked the idea of the AMX 30 getting rebalanced to have a 400 HEAT round

a) it would be historically accurate

b) it would be unique if not relevant at TX

Obviously a lot would have to give to make something that over the top balanced. Worst in class DPM might be enough, given it's  existing problems (the cupola and the Leo being better almost every way in the same role).

Obj 268 had 450 HEAT, JpE100 had 420 and so did Foch-155 (or had foch 410?), E3 / E4 where the ``losers`` with only 375 APCR

Heck T54 had 350 HEAT, and that was when HEAT > APCR, because heat didnt get absorbed by tracks or brick walls, APCR was faster, but HEAT lost no normalisation and had stupid high values

The different between 350 and 400 HEAT are however minimal, E3 casemet, T95, stuff like that it makes difference, thats about it (before, with 450, u could pen gun shield and stuff, but that no longer works with HEAT and the most powerfull APCR of the game (E4) doesnt have enough penetation for that (i think)

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Final 1.10.1 Changes Implemented Today:

Changes to the technical characteristics of the following vehicles:

Germany

Panther mit 8,8 cm L / 71

Replaced the 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L / 71 gun with the 8.8 cm Kw.K. 43 L / 71 mod.Vlt.

Compared to the previous gun, only shell damage changed from 240/240/295 to 280/280/370 HP

E 50

Changed the reload time of the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 gun in the E 50 Ausf. B turret from 5 to 6 s

Improved the armoring of both turrets

Changed the penetration value of the PzGr 39 G shell for the 10,5 cm Kw.K. L / 52 Ausf. B gun from 220 to 230 mm

Changed the damage value of the Sprgr 18 L shell for the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 gun from 295 to 370 HP

Changed the damage value of the Pzgr 40 L shell for the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 gun from 240 to 280 HP

Changed the damage value of the Pzgr 39 L shell for the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 gun from 240 to 280 HP

Panther II

Changed the damage value of the Sprgr 18 L shell for the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 gun from 295 to 370 HP

Changed the damage value of the Pzgr 40 L shell for the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 gun from 240 to 280 HP

Changed the damage value of the Pzgr 39 L shell for the 8,8 cm Kw.K. L / 100 gun from 240 to 280 HP

E 50 Ausf. M

Improved the turret armoring

Leopard Prototyp A

Increased the dispersion during movement of the Leopard Prototyp A1 suspension by 22%

Increased the dispersion during movement of the Leopard Prototyp A2 suspension by 25%

Increased the dispersion on hull traverse of the Leopard Prototyp A1 suspension by 22%

Increased the dispersion on hull traverse of the Leopard Prototyp A2 suspension by 25%

Increased the dispersion on turret traverse of the 10.5 cm L7A1 gun in the Porsche Standardpanzer turret by 20%

Changed the aiming time of the 10,5 cm L7A1 gun in the Porsche Standardpanzer turret from 1.9 to 2 s

China

T-34-1:

Changed the dispersion of the 100 mm 44-100JT gun in the T-34-1 model 2 turret from 0.42 to 0.4 m

Decreased the dispersion of the 100 mm 44-100JT gun during rotation of the T-34-1 model 2 turret by 12%

Changed the aiming time of the 100 mm 44-100JT gun in the T-34-1 model 2 turret from 2.9 to 2.7 s

Changed the vehicle durability with the T-34-1 turret from 960 to 1,050 HP

Changed the vehicle durability with the T-34-1 model 2 turret from 1,050 to 1,150 HP

T-34-2

Replaced the 122 mm 37-122JT gun in the T-34-2 model 2 turret with the 122 mm 371-122JTX gun
Compared to the previous gun:

Shell damage changed from 390/390/530 to 360/360/530 HP

Penetration values changed from 175/250/61 to 190/250/61 mm

Changed the reload time from 15 to 12 s

Changed the aiming time from 3.1 to 2.9 s

Changed the dispersion from 0.48 to 0.44 m

Changed the dispersion of the 100 mm 44-100JT gun in the T-34-2 model 2 turret from 0.42 to 0.4 m

Changed the aiming time of the 100 mm 44-100JT gun in the T-34-2 model 2 turret from 2.9 to 2.7 s

Improved the hull armor

Changed the vehicle durability with the T-34-2 turret from 1,200 to 1,300 HP

Changed the vehicle durability with the T-34-2 model 2 turret from 1,300 to 1,400 HP

Decreased the dispersion during movement of the T-34-2 suspension by 9%

Decreased the dispersion during movement of the T-34-2 model 2 suspension by 10%

Decreased the dispersion on hull traverse of the T-34-2 suspension by 9%

Decreased the dispersion on hull traverse of the T-34-2 model 2 suspension by 10%

WZ-120

Decreased the dispersion of the 122 mm 60-122T gun during rotation of the WZ-120-1 turret by 12%

Changed the reload time of the 122 mm 60-122T gun in the WZ-120-1 turret from 12 to 11 s

Changed the top speed from 56 to 60 km / h

Changed the vehicle durability with the WZ-120 turret from 1,550 to 1,650 HP

Changed the vehicle durability with the WZ-120-1 turret from 1,650 to 1,750 HP

121

Improved the hull armor

Increased the velocity of the Chuan bei-472 shell by 12%

Decreased the velocity of the Po-122 shell by 9%

Decreased the velocity of the Sha bao-472 shell by 9%

Changed the penetration value of the Chuan bei-472 shell from 258 to 262 mm

Changed the engine power from 580 to 650 hp

Changed the vehicle durability from 1,950 to 2,050 HP

U.S.S.R.

Object 140

Improved the hull armor

Changed the gun depression angle from -6 to -7 degrees

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Imo the std b and pta are still strong in tier despite their nerfs. Which kinda points to how broken they were prior.

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Played the Panther 88 and the T-34-2.

Pleasantly surprised by how much better they both are now.
...like, they're still not GOOD, but they're a hell of a lot better.

The Panther 88 is still huge, has bad armor, meh mobility, and below average pen... but that damage/ROF combo can be absolutely lethal when its in the right place at the right time.

The T-34-2 likewise feels less like an embarrassing downgrade compared to the T-34-3. The -3 is still probably... better... especially given the pref-MM... but the -2 at least feels like a worthy peer instead of an insanely bad tier 7.5 med that has to see tier 10's.

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Played the E50M a bit, and it actually bounced quite a lot of stuff. Still no turbo on it though, 'cause I'm low on credits.

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Only played a handful of games in the E50 as I continue to try and do the stupid ramming mission. Not feeling that turret armour buff, probably because most of the time I was still getting shot in the lower plate... extra penetration is nice though, and it still performs very solidly as an all-rounder.

Been thinking about putting a turbo on it given it's a bit slow to accelerate, but not sure what to drop from Vstab/Rammer/Optics for it.

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5 hours ago, Balthazars said:

Only played a handful of games in the E50 as I continue to try and do the stupid ramming mission. Not feeling that turret armour buff, probably because most of the time I was still getting shot in the lower plate... extra penetration is nice though, and it still performs very solidly as an all-rounder.

Been thinking about putting a turbo on it given it's a bit slow to accelerate, but not sure what to drop from Vstab/Rammer/Optics for it.

I dropped optics as I rarely solo tier 9 these days, and often have a vision tank in toon.

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1 hour ago, sr360 said:

I dropped optics as I rarely solo tier 9 these days, and often have a vision tank in toon.

Imagine having people to platoon with

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19 hours ago, sr360 said:

I dropped optics as I rarely solo tier 9 these days, and often have a vision tank in toon.

Unfortunately I am more or less purely solo, so not a luxury I can afford. I did play it without Optics from memory back in the day for quite some time (used Vents instead from recollection) but not sure if I want to go back to being semi-blind. Gun handling is pretty good, it might do okay without a Vstab?

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5 hours ago, Balthazars said:

Unfortunately I am more or less purely solo, so not a luxury I can afford. I did play it without Optics from memory back in the day for quite some time (used Vents instead from recollection) but not sure if I want to go back to being semi-blind. Gun handling is pretty good, it might do okay without a Vstab?

Dropping vstab strips your gun handling advantage over same tier meds/heaviums

Vents + food > optics IMO as the E 50 does a lot of brawling (for a med), and 500 VR is only useful on some maps. Also E 50 is not the ideal platform for vision.

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The Object 140 has the T-62A's historical gun depression now. (T-62 had -6* with 11.5cm, -7* with 10cm D-54/D-10, while 140 had -5* with D-54/D-10)

Regarding AMX 30 comment, the real tanks 10.5cm is stronger (AP) than the 10.5cm L7 (but not by a lot). 

Gameplay changes

  • German tank changes are good for them, aside from PTA, but not good for the game.
  • Lighter armor remains shafted as usual
  • The Chinese mediums... T-34-2's hardly changed, WZ-120's still worse and uglier than pre-HD, 121 WG fake tank remains mediocre.

The T-34-2's changes set the pace for Chinese med changes. Way too little, and WG even exacted a toll for it.

 

All they had to do was give T-34-2's 122 normal accuracy and good DPM, that's easily good enough. But I guess WG wants to sell more T-34-3's, so if the 34-2's worse even in alpha, they'll sell more. :D

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I think a lot of these wtf changes are down to how they test (or rather don't test). The test server is a joke; all you have on there is everyone playing whatever they want as long as its a tier ten they probably don't own. 

It would be far more effective if the test server gave you access to only the tier and type of tanks that are the focus of the update - so for example this time your garage would have only the tier ten mediums, all with full skill crews (like sheriff / match accounts). Less experienced players might find they only have tier 8s, or tier 7s.

Data gathered from a few thousand matches of same tier / type would soon quantify the advantages and disadvantages of each tank. Which they could then adjust incrementally in iterations of the test server. 

 

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Common people can see the problems at a glance. It literally doesn't even take a test server. They could hire me as balance dev and get better balance. (implying I'm not a good choice)

You don't even need to test to see the problems. This is just standard corporate shenanigans. 

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1 hour ago, Gryphon_ said:

It would be far more effective if the test server gave you access to only the tier and type of tanks that are the focus of the update - so for example this time your garage would have only the tier ten mediums, all with full skill crews (like sheriff / match accounts). Less experienced players might find they only have tier 8s, or tier 7s.

 

No, it wouldn't be more effective. You're just enforcing the exact same thing that players are already doing: Artificially tilting the team-compositions, leading to tilted data. By doing what you suggest, for example, you could weed out the inter-medium balance, but it wouldn't tell you a damned thing about how those mediums play against other classes, which is just as important as balancing the mediums between each other.

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57 minutes ago, Madner Kami said:

No, it wouldn't be more effective. You're just enforcing the exact same thing that players are already doing: Artificially tilting the team-compositions, leading to tilted data. By doing what you suggest, for example, you could weed out the inter-medium balance, but it wouldn't tell you a damned thing about how those mediums play against other classes, which is just as important as balancing the mediums between each other.

^

Briefly; "focus is too narrow" in many words.

Overall, WG does not seem to have a vision for balance the game, and is conducting itself poorly.

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