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Rexxie

Unconventional WoT Opinions 3

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Is this an unconventional opinion..? Nerfing gold rounds is the wrong way to go if you're not going to add in weakspots and reverse some of the armor buffs that have taken place in the past couple years. And if and when it's done, the decrease in damage should scale with the increase in penetration and perhaps shell velocity, that way tanks that only see like a 20mm increase in penetration with their prem shells don't get dicked over.

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On 8/20/2020 at 2:39 AM, SkittlesOfSteeI said:

nice pronoun usage. 

idk what rexxie is, if they're a he or a she. I always end up misgendering siege operators so you think I can keep track of that shit? they is fine to use on anyone right? It's not really important to me anyway, I know that there's gonna be Fenrir Large BD's involved anyway.

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15 minutes ago, Raj said:

idk what rexxie is, if they're a he or a she. I always end up misgendering siege operators so you think I can keep track of that shit? they is fine to use on anyone right? It's not really important to me anyway, I know that there's gonna be Fenrir Large BD's involved anyway.

im a girl, and we rolling XL Nox over here

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26 minutes ago, Raj said:

idk what rexxie is, if they're a he or a she. I always end up misgendering siege operators so you think I can keep track of that shit? they is fine to use on anyone right? It's not really important to me anyway, I know that there's gonna be Fenrir Large BD's involved anyway.

as a they myself I was just doing a lil nod of appreciation

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People still post here? My god what year is it?! I've tried to play a game here and there of wot but I always get bored/annoyed too quickly. Sad awoo. All the tanks I loved for whatever reasons feel like they are no longer that tank I once could enjoy. Some tanks feel stupidly stronger than I remember too.

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Kind of debated whether to explain this nuance, but might as well. My earlier post I said the game is better than it's been in eons, but it's not across the board. In fact, all tiers up to 7 are better to play than they've ever been right now. But once you hit 6 it starts to degrade and by the time you hit 8 I think the game is literally the worst it's been since the days of 5+ arty per side.

This is largely because WG leaves lower tiers the fuck alone. High tier is the competitive e-donger tier where every one turns into an insufferable tryhard. As a result WG aims the bulk of its monetization at those higher tiers and the gameplay is an absolute shitshow because of it.

  • Gold ammo is a joke at high tier. At lower tiers it's a noticeable advantage, at high tier if you aren't spamming it you're basically hamstringing yourself. Too many tanks have monster armor with "weak" spots where 20% of your AP rounds will still bounce and are useless otherwise.
  • The big shift to pay to win premiums is absolutely asinine. Premiums of the past 2-3 years completely shit all over everything else, and went straight cash only. It's shameless and broken. Low tier premiums are mostly hilariously bad.
  • WG keeps making new gimmick branches that only get their obnoxious properties at tier 8+. So as soon as you hit 8 you suddenly have wheeled vehicles with auto aim and zoom mode, Swede TDs with press x for cancer time, etc. These gimmicks are interesting, but often really screw with game balance.
  • Artillery is still peak influence at high tier. The blast radius is huge, everything is big, slow and super easy to hit. At lower tiers arty rarely even hits you in contrast, with tiny blast radii and horrible accuracy.
  • High tier is non-stop power creep now as a cover for the premium tank power creep. As a result, being low tier is a complete joke, and the flavor of the month tanks are game-breaking ridiculous at times. In comparison low tier finally saw a nerf wave which clipped all the abominations like the T67, 38t, and Luchs.
  • Everything at high tiers is pointless 5-15 blowouts. Who knows why exactly.

I've never liked high tier much, the only time I actually thought it was good was right after the first arty nerf. Right now? I have no idea how any one has the patience for playing all their games in 8+.

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I was pleasantly surprised to discover my old favorite forum alive and still somewhat active.  This post interested me, as I think i've always had a few semi-unconventional ideas about the game.  My current thoughts, roughly in order of increasing unconventionality, and with the caveat that these are NA only:

  • Not controversial, but fuck EBRs, especially the tier 10 which is a vehicle tailor-made to encourage both idiotic YOLO gameplay that's largely ineffective but fucks random people in the ass, AND for being insanely exploitable by good players, especially good players with good internet connections.  Trying to hit one and you've got some network hiccups?  Thought you computed a good lead?  Fuck you, it's actually already driving the other direction, in complete defiance of the normal physics and it's just slapped you for 500+ HP with HE thanks to getting access to another mechanic that other tanks don't.  Tanks that aren't playing the same game as most of the other tanks were a bad idea (hi arty), and i'm not sure what on earth possessed WG to fail to learn from that the first time quite so spectacularly.
  • Tier 8 and tier 9 still seem to be the most fun in terms of balance.  Not that there isn't stupid bullshit in each of these tiers, but most of the tanks here haven't yet acquired ALL of the ridiculous qualities that make their tier 10 counterparts incredibly dumb.  I'd still rather fight a Defender or a Skorp than a Chieftain, 279(e), or 268 v4.  In fact, my only enjoyment in the game recently has been three-marking shitty tier 8 premium tanks, and the fact that it's possible to enjoy that means these tiers probably don't suck too hard.
  • Lower tier HP buffs were generally good, but should have included handling buffs as well.  I wrote a long official forums post about this, but basically anything that takes low tier gameplay and makes it favor stationary campers less is probably good for the overall health of the game.
  • Equipment changes were okay, but in some respects didn't go far enough.  Related to my point above, I have argued for straight-up removal of the camo net and binoculars, especially because at lower tiers they amplify the advantages inherent in sitting still and doing nothing.  Getting killed by tanks you can't possibly spot has almost always been one of the worst features of the game, so adding things like the Commander's Vision System was good to combat this, but WG should have taken the opportunity to get rid of the stuff that makes campy gameplay even more campy.
  • The approximate timeframe of the Type 5/Maus overbuffs was the start of consistently sequentially more and more terrible tier 10 gameplay, which the various incredibly stupid reward tanks have accelerated.  The ONLY upside to the ridiculous reward tanks is that they make you forget how stupid some of the OP tech tree variants (430U and 268 v4, particularly, plus Super Conq) were.  That is, until I played the most recent season of Ranked battles on NA (thank heavens I only "needed" to get into League 1, not finish it).  Seriously, if you don't think these vehicles make end tier gameplay a billion times worse than it needs to be, you can't possibly have tried playing Ranked where you suddenly didn't have to deal with them.
  • The VKB is now arguably the worst tier 9 heavy tank other than the Type 4, and i'm not sure i'm willing to even concede that without a fight.  You constantly fight two things - either other tier 9 heavies that have access to tier 10 HEAT rounds that can pretend that you don't have any frontal armor, or tier 10 heavies that have access to tier 10 HEAT/APCR rounds that can also pretend thaat you don't have any frontal armor.  In exchange for this excellent level of armor protection, you have speed that's laughable and gun handling that's atrocious.
  • Gun rammer has NEVER been a must-have piece of equipment on all tanks, and especially isn't now with the advent of additional pieces of equipment that either help deal with bush campers or further increase gun handling.  Raw DPM has always been crazily overvalued and overrated, especially after the sigma nerf - sometimes it is better to accept a slower rate of fire for more accurate fire.

Come at me...

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On 9/3/2020 at 7:02 AM, _Juris said:

The VKB is now arguably the worst tier 9 heavy tank other than the Type 4

The VKB kind of makes me sad. It was an INCREDIBLE tank for a time. They nerfed the LFP from 280 down to 240 eff, then buffed every other T9 heavy, then made maps larger, then introduced a bunch of broken T8/9/10s to feast on it.

It's also a reminder of the most asinine change in WoT - dumbing down the armor schemes. I think part of the reason they realized they had to nerf it is that they were planning on removing all the weakspots from the tank. Remember back in the day when we'd nail MG ports, vision ports, make use of mantlet holes, and abuse shot traps?

I mean, take a look at even a really simple tank's armor scheme in 2012:

yes...another "wtf what piece of ****" the tiger is thread. - Heavy Tanks - World  of Tanks official forum - Page 2

Now?

image.png.b5c8e2dcee9fc283ae3ffc6a7052faaa.png

It's so lame now. I honestly feel like there was so much more to learn about the game back in the day, now it's just "do i have enough gold pen to click on this tank". Maybe the like, six tanks with viable overmatch weakspots add in a little spice, too.

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9 hours ago, Rexxie said:

The VKB kind of makes me sad. It was an INCREDIBLE tank for a time. They nerfed the LFP from 280 down to 240 eff, then buffed every other T9 heavy, then made maps larger, then introduced a bunch of broken T8/9/10s to feast on it.

It's also a reminder of the most asinine change in WoT - dumbing down the armor schemes. I think part of the reason they realized they had to nerf it is that they were planning on removing all the weakspots from the tank. Remember back in the day when we'd nail MG ports, vision ports, make use of mantlet holes, and abuse shot traps?

I mean, take a look at even a really simple tank's armor scheme in 2012:

 

  Hide contents

yes...another "wtf what piece of ****" the tiger is thread. - Heavy Tanks - World  of Tanks official forum - Page 2

 

Now?

 

  Hide contents

image.png.b5c8e2dcee9fc283ae3ffc6a7052faaa.png

 

It's so lame now. I honestly feel like there was so much more to learn about the game back in the day, now it's just "do i have enough gold pen to click on this tank". Maybe the like, six tanks with viable overmatch weakspots add in a little spice, too.

To be fair they have been re-adding tanks with actual weakspots lately, e.g. the E75 TS. The real issue is not only the removal of weakspots, but that tapping 2 is so much better than aiming carefully. 

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@Rexxie it was the HD re-models that did that in. I imagine that the cost/benefit analysis of the time required to turn all the models HD but keep the same level of detail as in the SD models didn't stack up and so they went "nope" and simply made the armour uniform across each 'plate' or surface. I agree, it's a bit sad. Knowing that a certain piece of armour facing you had some weak-spots did allow better players something to leverage beyond just just tapping 2.

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  • Pref MM is underrated now.
  • E-50 dropped off the radar after we got stuff like the Standard B, buffed PTA, Obj 430, etc, but it's still absurd & better than most of those tanks are or were. 
  • Hardening is on the same level as rammer/vstab and is still underrated.
  • The Fox skin for the CS-52 is kinda ugly.
  • Blueprints, crewbooks, boosters, and 5x xp missions are all given out way too generously and were terrible ideas.
  • The unicum playstyle is propped up by goldspam and I think it's disingenuous to pretend it's not. Exposure limiting is most of what makes someone a unicum. Good positioning is only half the equation, the other half is never needing to aim. The sigma nerf absolutely shit on the idea of a unicum aiming normally and it hasn't been viable since.

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31 minutes ago, Rexxie said:
  • Pref MM is underrated now.
  • E-50 dropped off the radar after we got stuff like the Standard B, buffed PTA, Obj 430, etc, but it's still absurd & better than most of those tanks are or were. 
  • Hardening is on the same level as rammer/vstab and is still underrated.
  • The Fox skin for the CS-52 is kinda ugly.
  • Blueprints, crewbooks, boosters, and 5x xp missions are all given out way too generously and were terrible ideas.
  • The unicum playstyle is propped up by goldspam and I think it's disingenuous to pretend it's not. Exposure limiting is most of what makes someone a unicum. Good positioning is only half the equation, the other half is never needing to aim. The sigma nerf absolutely shit on the idea of a unicum aiming normally and it hasn't been viable since.

only did 2-3 games IS6, but still felt like noob stomper, that actually WORKS (unlike like 90% of the tanks i played last months)

And yeah, hardening seems rly powerfull, on t8 tanks with <1550 morale, its a must even i think (with 1500, u die from 5x320, 4x400 or 3x500, with 1650, you dont, thats a massive difference), i put it on KT, IS3 and 53TP.

 

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9 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

only did 2-3 games IS6, but still felt like noob stomper, that actually WORKS (unlike like 90% of the tanks i played last months)

And yeah, hardening seems rly powerfull, on t8 tanks with <1550 morale, its a must even i think (with 1500, u die from 5x320, 4x400 or 3x500, with 1650, you dont, thats a massive difference), i put it on KT, IS3 and 53TP.

 

Full tier 8 games and getting bullied by CS-52s is physically painful. The only pref MM tier 8 that's any good is the Mutant.

Btw Lowe has 1820 with hardening in the first slot :megadoge:

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I don't like the low tier HP buff. It is better than before considering serious tier problems, but its a bandaid for larger problems and the numbers even show it. 4H is still 2 shotting people semi-reliably. Just now it runs IRM + GLD, doesn't 1 pen, but 2 pens with AP/HEAT. 2 shots 700 damage and a tier 5 med has ~600 HP.

The tank balance has been always bad, and the basic reason is that WG doesn't really care. Historical accuracy matters, and frankly, if WG actually adhered to reality (they haven't since IS-7), we'd have a lot better game right now.

I don't really get why people like higher tiers, and never have. Its all really stale and full of tank statwank* so its offputting. I didn't like the HP climb from tier6+, felt tier 6 was a nice place. But then lower tier gameplay is terrible so that might be why. I'm also on the extra aggressive side

The game was better with fewer tanks like in early 2012

For a while now, tanks have been going too fast, and this has been true with 140, less 62A, but also Cromwell**. It makes the game more annoying to play. Its OK with tank like Leopard 1.

Gold ammo is kind of a problem but not really. The overall tank statwank is the real problem since WG flew off the handle, this was exemplified in shit like 15cm RHM. 2nd German TD line was a mistake

Tank balance; This is supposed to be hidden but help I can't use spoilers properly

uptier all Soviet TX meds out of the game, T-54 to TX, Soviet IS series heavies, IS-6, IS-3, IS-5, etc, IS-3 & IS-5 could be tier 9's, with T-10B as TX. IS-2 to tier 8 with a proto IS at tier 7. Remove IS-7. Ungimp their stats, as well as D-10T, D-25T, ditch BL-9/M62 and so on. If Leopard 1A0 is TX, this is the way.

  • Part of the stat creep; speed, DPM, armor, etc, like how tier 6 meds suddenly all penned tier 7 med values ~145 on a regular basis instead of being the lucky exception. Chi To/VKM/and a handful can have ~150, rest not.
  • common "lower end" pen, ~120-130 typically in tier 6, ~140 in tier 7, ~230 TX, but assuming tank like IS-3 is tier 9. In tier 8; STA-1 pen to ~170, D-10T pen to ~190-200 with ~300 alpha, as an example.
 

T-10B to TX example explained; UFP ~230-240 head on (T110E5 almost blocks 330 pen gold there), turret strong, if TX pen is lower, that matters a lot. Real life T-10B has very good stabilizers and power rammer for faster loading. Give it say, 220 AP pen with D-25T (weakspots will need a look at, since this would struggle), lower end, good bloom, and above average mobility (but not T-10M level)

  • T110E5 would have higher pen, more alpha, ie 450 (than D-25T), but worse stabilizers, worse DPM.
  • T-10B damage output is high, accurate, and consistent. 

So while protoIS had a crazy but slow 12cm, the IS-2 matured it a lot, the IS-3 brought in heavy armor, the T-10B added big improvements to efficiency, but the gun lacks power. Bore evacuator addition buffs acc a little.

Basically, its a little like the TX Tiger; although instead of pen, its bloom.

*NATO HT 12cm's are the strongest IRL, 400 alpha, L7 390... M62 just behind at 440. STA-1 has glorified hellcat gun but 200+ pen standard AP.

**Real Cromwell powertrain dies past 50 and the suspension a little before that.

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17 hours ago, Oicraftian_ said:

I don't like the low tier HP buff. It is better than before considering serious tier problems, but its a bandaid for larger problems and the numbers even show it. 4H is still 2 shotting people semi-reliably. Just now it runs IRM + GLD, doesn't 1 pen, but 2 pens with AP/HEAT. 2 shots 700 damage and a tier 5 med has ~600 HP.

The tank balance has been always bad, and the basic reason is that WG doesn't really care. Historical accuracy matters, and frankly, if WG actually adhered to reality (they haven't since IS-7), we'd have a lot better game right now.

I don't really get why people like higher tiers, and never have. Its all really stale and full of tank statwank* so its offputting. I didn't like the HP climb from tier6+, felt tier 6 was a nice place. But then lower tier gameplay is terrible so that might be why. I'm also on the extra aggressive side

The game was better with fewer tanks like in early 2012

For a while now, tanks have been going too fast, and this has been true with 140, less 62A, but also Cromwell**. It makes the game more annoying to play. Its OK with tank like Leopard 1.

Gold ammo is kind of a problem but not really. The overall tank statwank is the real problem since WG flew off the handle, this was exemplified in shit like 15cm RHM. 2nd German TD line was a mistake

Tank balance; This is supposed to be hidden but help I can't use spoilers properly

uptier all Soviet TX meds out of the game, T-54 to TX, Soviet IS series heavies, IS-6, IS-3, IS-5, etc, IS-3 & IS-5 could be tier 9's, with T-10B as TX. IS-2 to tier 8 with a proto IS at tier 7. Remove IS-7. Ungimp their stats, as well as D-10T, D-25T, ditch BL-9/M62 and so on. If Leopard 1A0 is TX, this is the way.

  • Part of the stat creep; speed, DPM, armor, etc, like how tier 6 meds suddenly all penned tier 7 med values ~145 on a regular basis instead of being the lucky exception. Chi To/VKM/and a handful can have ~150, rest not.
  • common "lower end" pen, ~120-130 typically in tier 6, ~140 in tier 7, ~230 TX, but assuming tank like IS-3 is tier 9. In tier 8; STA-1 pen to ~170, D-10T pen to ~190-200 with ~300 alpha, as an example.
  Hide contents

T-10B to TX example explained; UFP ~230-240 head on (T110E5 almost blocks 330 pen gold there), turret strong, if TX pen is lower, that matters a lot. Real life T-10B has very good stabilizers and power rammer for faster loading. Give it say, 220 AP pen with D-25T (weakspots will need a look at, since this would struggle), lower end, good bloom, and above average mobility (but not T-10M level)

  • T110E5 would have higher pen, more alpha, ie 450 (than D-25T), but worse stabilizers, worse DPM.
  • T-10B damage output is high, accurate, and consistent. 

So while protoIS had a crazy but slow 12cm, the IS-2 matured it a lot, the IS-3 brought in heavy armor, the T-10B added big improvements to efficiency, but the gun lacks power. Bore evacuator addition buffs acc a little.

Basically, its a little like the TX Tiger; although instead of pen, its bloom.

*NATO HT 12cm's are the strongest IRL, 400 alpha, L7 390... M62 just behind at 440. STA-1 has glorified hellcat gun but 200+ pen standard AP.

**Real Cromwell powertrain dies past 50 and the suspension a little before that.

agree, if WG had used more historical realism, the game (balance) would have been better.

The D-10t, D-25t and 88L71 are all (way) too weak, making stuff like 105L68 and Bl-9 needed, the not nerfed t7 guns would be sufficient on tier 8 also (and t7 could then used weaker guns...)

basic, real, tanks like Tiger with 88L56 on t7, and on T8 stuff like IS-2, King Tiger / ferdinand with 88L71 should have been the basic of the tech tree....

Instead WG probably wanted to shoe horn the IS7 in at all cost, and made thus everything the way it is, instead IS7 was retarded OP compared to anything and took like 2 nerfs to make it `balanced`` against the Maus and T30, (and in the end, T30 had to removed form tier x and maus had to to be buffed like 3 times)

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There's no reason why the Pz IV should have the 105mm howitzer. Same with the Hetzer and stuff too. Sherman should have it because it's historical, but that version should be T6.
In general, these derpy HE/HEAT slingers don't fit the game, and are usually not even historical. It's probably not a controversial opinion on this forum, but I'd love to see them just removed.

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3 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

agree, if WG had used more historical realism, the game (balance) would have been better.

The D-10t, D-25t and 88L71 are all (way) too weak, making stuff like 105L68 and Bl-9 needed, the not nerfed t7 guns would be sufficient on tier 8 also (and t7 could then used weaker guns...)

basic, real, tanks like Tiger with 88L56 on t7, and on T8 stuff like IS-2, King Tiger / ferdinand with 88L71 should have been the basic of the tech tree....

Instead WG probably wanted to shoe horn the IS7 in at all cost, and made thus everything the way it is, instead IS7 was retarded OP compared to anything and took like 2 nerfs to make it `balanced`` against the Maus and T30, (and in the end, T30 had to removed form tier x and maus had to to be buffed like 3 times)

Just some historical nitpicking;

Guns

  • While 88/71 is strong IRL, its only 'weak' in current context. I would lower 88/71 pen to 190, a few mm worse than tier7 D-10T with worse bleed off.
  • BL-9 is just a name ingame. IRL, its the 88/71 of 12.2cm guns; the D-25T already overpowers the long 88. 

 

Tiger at tier 7 could have; 88/56 with good DPM and bloom (despite not having stabilizers), or 88/71 mediocre DPM, and average bloom on movement. Similar case for tier 8 Tiger 2. 

  • So its a choice between existing, more balanced, or more minmaxed.

 

Tanks

  • Ferdi seems like a wild tier 7. A bit like a German T95. Since KT is t8, Ferdi is t7.
  • IS-2 t8 isn't that difficult; 45ton medium with more firepower than previous tier TD is hard to screw up. The Germans are being made out as the armor heavies and the IS-2 pens the turret at range. That's how insane the gun is.
  • Its balanced by IS-2 subpar armor letting it take critical damage from tier 5's frontally and worse bloom.
  • T30 didn't ever have TX potential. The 15cm is almost a howitzer and the mantlet is weaker IRL.

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