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lavawing

das MoE ist ein useful metric

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...for measuring tank performance.

I was looking for a tank with really low 3 mark reqs to boost my e-peen (:panting:) after like 600 games in arta for the marathon when I came across this site:
https://www.wotgarage.net/moe-tanks-ranking/8

If tank curves were a valid way to measure how good tanks were at winning games, this would probably be an equally good metric for measuring farming ability.

 

 

You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks liek

Gk52aDs.png

Looking at tier 8 alone, the best and worst tanks (discounting TDs and LTs) have like a 1K gulf in expected DPG. There are, obviously, plenty of anomalies like black tanks having much higher reqs, reward tanks having borked expecteds, and there are tanks that are legitimately, and somehow, surprisingly strong, for example, there's the Somua which needs like 3.8k combined for the 3rd mark. Equally weirdly, the Defenders don't seem that much worse than the other 2 Soviet monstrosities for getting raw damage, which is not what you expect given the general clunkiness of that thing, and the IS-3A is apparently better at winning games than both of the Defenders (!?) and the 703. 

In other respects, it merely confirms the general consensus on tank strength: the 3 Soviet prem heavies, are, roughly speaking, equal: the Renegade is a farmer on par with most tier 9s.

Oh, and about the CS 52, it turns out to be somewhat worse than expected given the armour profile and the laser APCR, being worse than the Progetto (duh), and a little more surprisingly, the Lansen.

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That's really interesting - I use that site but I didn't realise it had these tier lists.

The tiers 9 and 10 lists are also interesting:

  • T-54 6th easiest to mark - I need to buy it back apparently, as there is no way it is worse than BC-AP.
  • 277-II confirmed worst reward tank at tier 9.
  • Reward tanks at tier 9 make up 4 of top 5 hardest to mark. 
  • Type 5 is the 5th hardest tier 10 to mark, ahead of the VK and S Conq, and even the Progetto.
  • Speaking of, the Progetto is still very high - not played it since the nerf, but is it still better than average?
  • I didn't realise the 279 ebola is 400 dpg better than the Chief - is this because it is more idiot proof?

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Not that surprising that reward tanks and rare premiums (the Black variants for example) are often near the top of difficulty, likely due to limited numbers of the tanks in circulation. For example, I would imagine that's one of the reasons why the Chimera is the highest tier 8 tank, because there's probably not that many of them around to begin with.

Was surprised that the Type 5 is still so high on the tier 10 list, given it's been quite some time since it was nerfed hard into the ground in terms of the gold HE rounds which was part of the reason it performed so well before.

Not surprising that the easiest marks at tier 10 are almost all TDs, although interesting to see that flips around at tier 9 to mostly be all the light tanks.

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1 hour ago, Snoregasm2 said:

That's really interesting - I use that site but I didn't realise it had these tier lists.

The tiers 9 and 10 lists are also interesting:

  • T-54 6th easiest to mark - I need to buy it back apparently, as there is no way it is worse than BC-AP.
  • 277-II confirmed worst reward tank at tier 9.
  • Reward tanks at tier 9 make up 4 of top 5 hardest to mark. 
  • Type 5 is the 5th hardest tier 10 to mark, ahead of the VK and S Conq, and even the Progetto.
  • Speaking of, the Progetto is still very high - not played it since the nerf, but is it still better than average?
  • I didn't realise the 279 ebola is 400 dpg better than the Chief - is this because it is more idiot proof?

To be fair it does have 1.5% more expected winrate than the others, might be just shit at farming.

Btw why does the 60TP rank 3rd on the list? It makes about as much sense as the Type 5 one. I don't see how it's even humanly possible to farm 3.9k consistently in a Type 5. Or are the stats borked because no one plays it? 

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I'm questioning the accuracy of some of what that website is showing.

Just recently I played the Type 5 for a bit. The mark is definitely not 5.2k as is shown there. 2.7k-3k was keeping me from dropping when I was above 91%.

I would also bet the Progetto 65 has dropped quite a bit recently and the website hasn't updated yet. The value shown on the website was probably accurate before the nerfs. However, just a couple of days ago I played a battle and my marks jumped by almost 5%, so it's definitely dropped.

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Not sure how they get their data but requirements on that site seem (absurdly sometimes) high compared to what they're like ingame.

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the website seemsfine, but i rly dont understand how the 60tp has that target req when it'sa very average tank..

only 279s and Chief with higher reqs like wtf

lucky i marked it day 2, worse stats than the req now :serb: 

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These values are BULLSHIT and not even close to being correct right now.

Tier 10 tanks I have marked these past 2-3 months and needed damage was around:

  • S Conq - around 4300 dmg combined
  • Patton - around 4250 dmg combined
  • 277 - around 4200 dmg combined
  • Cent AX - around 4000 dmg combined

Soon I'll mark TVP (4,3k) and 5A (4,4k).

I marked Prog and E5 too, but requirement changed after nerf/buff (E5 needed 3,6k lmao, Progetto around 4,6k).

So, not even close to 5k for S Conq, or 5,2 for Prog. Also, there is at least 5 tier X tanks that still need under 4k combined.

In conclusion, this list is not even close to being correct, at least on EU.

 

On 9/1/2020 at 7:40 PM, GehakteMolen said:

im mostly suprised by type 5 oO

1: Who plays it?

2: Who plays it so well?

1. Nobody

2. Nobody

Type 5 needs like 3,8k dmg...

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On 9/1/2020 at 6:40 AM, Snoregasm2 said:

That's really interesting - I use that site but I didn't realise it had these tier lists.

The tiers 9 and 10 lists are also interesting:

  • T-54 6th easiest to mark - I need to buy it back apparently, as there is no way it is worse than BC-AP.
  • 277-II confirmed worst reward tank at tier 9.
  • Reward tanks at tier 9 make up 4 of top 5 hardest to mark. 
  • Type 5 is the 5th hardest tier 10 to mark, ahead of the VK and S Conq, and even the Progetto.
  • Speaking of, the Progetto is still very high - not played it since the nerf, but is it still better than average?
  • I didn't realise the 279 ebola is 400 dpg better than the Chief - is this because it is more idiot proof?

Someone on here 3 marked a Type 5 a few years ago. Don't remember who it was.

And the Progetto was nerfed? Been gone for 2 years. What did they do to it?

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1 hour ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

Wow the EVEN 90 is that high?

how tf did i 3 mark mine?

3k isn't impossible to average with the right set of maps - it probably overperforms A LOT on certain maps and are among lower winrates on maps that don't suit that tank, as goes for any other tank

progetto, skorp, vk, renegade and all the new shit can all perform at this level at fairly stable rates.i'm not a t8 player (they are just fodder to me) so i can't really tell balance since all i do is shoot at them and not drive them

they are like ttier 8.5s

t-44-100 wentup by almost 1k... lmao

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I honestly just derp around in it and drive as far forward as possible.

 

Honestly though the list is probably closer to reality than the previous one but still quite inaccurate.

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2 hours ago, MagicalFlyingFox said:

Wow the EVEN 90 is that high?

how tf did i 3 mark mine?

I feel a lot better about only being able to  2 mark mine. I thought wheelies and the 432 would’ve hurt its performance more than this though.
 

A rare instance where Wargaming viciously nerfed a tank just before release and we’re entirely right in doing so. It would’ve been bonkers with its original stats.

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11 hours ago, hall0 said:

Wotgarage values are not correct.

Here a website with values which are much closer to reality (markmod)
https://gunmarks.poliroid.ru/

Hardest T8:image.thumb.png.6a3d07682d0e77023487036423e9e107.png

 

Hardest T10:
image.thumb.png.8ad2ec91630e56de6bfbf930ffc3bf3f.png

these look legit thanks.

wtf is the Bourrassque literally Jesus on tracks? Or is it because it can both farm and spot?

btw those T-44-100 stats make no sense. the T-44 itself is a very mediocre performer, at around 800-1K combined less than the premium variant. it has marginally improved performance in most respects, at the cost of losing its engine more. my only explanation is that it is an expensive + marathon tank that's never been offered at anything less than 50 bucks so only good players play it.

the most interesting thing is the difference between vehicle performance across the servers. this isn't obvious at tier 10 where everyone camps, but at tier 8 or below you start seeing some pretty interesting stuff. The Type 59 performs roughly the same across RU, EU and SEA, but for some reason the T-34-3 is 150-200 DPG behind on SEA, and performs worse than the Type 59 (!?).

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Lol, on ru server manticore does waaaaay better as ebr (compare 50% moe, manticore is among the best tx, ebr is somewhere lower middle of tier 10)

and 95% moe same, manticore does better as ebr xD

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7 hours ago, lavawing said:

these look legit thanks.

wtf is the Bourrassque literally Jesus on tracks? Or is it because it can both farm and spot?

 

Bourrasque is the holy grail right now at T8. And you have too keep in mind the values dropped because WG sold the tank recently on EU. I think it had 100-150 more before. 

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8 hours ago, hall0 said:

Bourrasque is the holy grail right now at T8. And you have too keep in mind the values dropped because WG sold the tank recently on EU. I think it had 100-150 more before. 

That's true - i'm up to 90+ but that's still after this in my last 78 battles, with good assist:

uwJTjxU.png

In nearly any other tier 8 tank that alone is 3 marks. That shit is hard to mark man.

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