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Rexxie

Your Excluded Maps

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Empires border, and second choice hoovers between Karelia, Glacier and Cliff.

Cliff since rework is fucking awefull, unless ur a td and can camp in the back, Karelia is played random (1 game hill push, other game basecamp) its just fuck map and Glacier is just shit all around...

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Paris and Minsk.

If there is one thing WG has done over the years to piss me off the most it isn't arty, lack of weakspots, the abuse of light tanks, or EBRs.  It's been map design and has been the most depressing thing about playing light tanks. Let's take Kharkov  for example. As a light tank I have 2 options when the game starts either go 1 line and brawl with mediums dodging arty fire all the while or (if there are no wheelie bois) go middle and sit in a bush in F4 or E4 spotting maybe 2 TDs who probably won't get shot. That's it and its fucking boring.

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Mines and Studzianki.

Mines. I hate it with passion. I have no idea why this map is still available in hightiers. For lower tiers OK. But everything T8 or higher should not see this map.
Imbalanced sides. Too small. Almost no room for flanking. Yolo hill and you have an huge advantage. 

Studzianki. Horrbile mapdesign. You wanna push? Well fuck you. You either get killed my stupid camper TDs, or pretty much everything what camps. And if that is not enough. Have fun with the enemy shooting you from the other side.

 

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Paris and Ensk. But, having read the comments, I may give Ensk a chance again and give up on Mines.

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I'm surprised to see Paris mentioned so often-- makes me think you haven't played Paris with a competent LT player. Paris does have limited tactical options but my bans are based on me playing a very vision-centric light tank heavy rotation for the last many months.

Top Choice: PEARL RIVER. Why would you leave this in and ban Paris? Take Paris, and remove every tactical choice you have and you get Pearl River. There is no vision play, no flex, just push into the brawl zone and brawl. The flank out west has chokepoints 1-2 TDs can control, but if you try to probe there a surprise TD will wipe out half your HP. Just say no.

Second choice: Abbey. The archetypical 3-corridor map, with no vision opportunities. The mid-rush-with-TD-blap is almost guaranteed, and the other options are push the trench and die or brawl the 1-2 while getting ass pounded by arty.

Honorable mentions: Minsk, Berlin and Empire's Border. Having said that, in Minsk you can do vision work down the mid ridge, and late game there are ample vision opportunities. Empire's Border is also an issue of staying alive, but the southern brawl is paramount, and is imbalanced too. Berlin has no field play, it's all city.

Airfield is always a contender, but it has some vision flex opportunities mid to late game. This is the archetypical YPYL map. Overlord is also horribly uninteresting.

Prok and Mali: if you ban these I will never talk to you again. Ever. Fish Bay is actually a solid LT map, but it is imbalanced in that North has the better spotting bush.

Other maps mentioned: Mines-- middle gets the attention but 1 line play is more tactically interesting. Studz is a fabulous late game LT map, almost one of the best in the game. Pilsen also has some interesting mid to late game tactical plays.

In the last month alone, I've racked up 6-8k spotting games on Minsk, Studz, Westfield, Redshire, Mines, Glacier, Muro, Highway, Fish Bay, Sand River, and El Halluf. Mali and Prok I go in looking for 10k games.

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I like Prokh because its like a guaranteed good game. YPYL as always but playing lights is obviously enjoyable. Playing anything with a turret and a usable gun on the 6 line is a free 4k+ game. Casemate TDs can struggle to carry if the LT players are bad, but it is certainly one of easiest maps to farm a really sick loss off of in a TD. I feel like people play hill on this map too often, let the pubbies do that for you.

Fisherman's is sort of similar to me, but only because a couple spots are horrendously broken. If I get it on a LT/MT it's a sigh of relief. You can sit in one square all game and carry the match, but heavies have no real options to abuse town in the same way. As always, no turret = fuck you. Map can also go from easy to a pain in matches with a lot of pubbie meds clogging up the few good locations. Redesign was terrible.

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17 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

I like Prokh because its like a guaranteed good game. YPYL as always but playing lights is obviously enjoyable. Playing anything with a turret and a usable gun on the 6 line is a free 4k+ game. Casemate TDs can struggle to carry if the LT players are bad, but it is certainly one of easiest maps to farm a really sick loss off of in a TD. I feel like people play hill on this map too often, let the pubbies do that for you.

Fisherman's is sort of similar to me, but only because a couple spots are horrendously broken. If I get it on a LT/MT it's a sigh of relief. You can sit in one square all game and carry the match, but heavies have no real options to abuse town in the same way. As always, no turret = fuck you. Map can also go from easy to a pain in matches with a lot of pubbie meds clogging up the few good locations. Redesign was terrible.

Prok is the opposite of YPYL! LT with CVS=YPYW

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20 minutes ago, sr360 said:

Prok is the opposite of YPYL! LT with CVS=YPYW

Your LT addiction is absolutely absurd sr, lol. I don't think generalizing maps based on how they play for LTs is very useful if you aren't named sr360 or crabeatoff, most of us are in meds or heavies.

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25 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

Your LT addiction is absolutely absurd sr, lol. I don't think generalizing maps based on how they play for LTs is very useful if you aren't named sr360 or crabeatoff, most of us are in meds or heavies.

Hey, all you need to do is take my platoon invite, and your eyes will be opened...

To add further, these days I play almost always in toons, and I almost always have a vision tank in the toon. In essence, I have a reliable LT with me pretty much every game. 

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1 hour ago, sr360 said:

Top Choice: PEARL RIVER. Why would you leave this in and ban Paris? Take Paris, and remove every tactical choice you have and you get Pearl River. There is no vision play, no flex, just push into the brawl zone and brawl. 

You just described my perfect map. I should probably add that I almost exclusively play heavies and brawler meds.

5 hours ago, hall0 said:

Mines and Studzianki.

Mines. I hate it with passion. I have no idea why this map is still available in hightiers. For lower tiers OK. But everything T8 or higher should not see this map.
Imbalanced sides. Too small. Almost no room for flanking. Yolo hill and you have an huge advantage. 

Studzianki. Horrbile mapdesign. You wanna push? Well fuck you. You either get killed my stupid camper TDs, or pretty much everything what camps. And if that is not enough. Have fun with the enemy shooting you from the other side.

 

 

I actually enjoy studz most of the time, it is pretty great late game. My only issue being how powerful the trench up the middle is, quite often the team lineups pretty much gift the most powerful part of the map to one side or another.

Studz is almost exactly the same as mines,  rather than a hill you have the mid trench, so it makes sense that you have both of them banned. But if you yolo trench every game, spamming help to your team and pinging it, I guarantee you will win a solid percentage of the games.

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Like sr, I'm not hitting battle without vision/flex in platoon unless I'm playing some idiot tank like the Chief or 279e.

On maps generally - if you don't want to be camping for minutes in a 3 lane map YPYL crossfire spot or else in a bush...welllll you've launched the wrong game! In an effort to shrink the effects of player skills they've continually revised these maps to matter as much about deployment distributions as anything else. Less platoons winning 85% means less people quitting with sub 40% WR after being horrifically clubbed from tier 1 onward!

I used to ban Airfield and Overlord. Then Fjords got worse so I'd ban that. Abbey has always been awful so i ban that sometimes. Empire's is bad - not because of YPYL but because it's so big and vertical that flexing isn't a great option. I usually win on it - but it's still frustrating. Pearl River is trash. Today i camped a 1v6 to a draw to remind an irate slate of pubbies what a bad map it is. That's my current ban staple and then I'll just cycle whichever of the above listed ones has pissed me off. I have good LT deployments and contingency plans for all of them though.

However Minsk is a great map. YPYL for sure - just build those bush nests in the right spot and epic games await you. Studz is pretty much the same map! Except it takes less tree cutting to get the same effectiveness. Paris i enjoy - it's got a unique crossfire system - some good progressions and can be stabilized even if you lose any of the 3 flanks. Field is an idiot trap though so don't go there unless it's the right play.

A wildcard in this discussion is cliff. Cliff is fine right up until you get 7 tanks that want to play 1 line. No deployment = no chance on Cliff. And you can't even stabilize it with a platoon! Ugh i hate those matches.

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I banned Studz and Minsk ages ago and didn't look back. After reading this I decided to ban Paris and Empire's Border instead.

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On 12/21/2020 at 3:32 AM, PityFool said:

Wait Paris?? Unless you are a clicker main, I don't see why you'd ban one of the few maps where arty is literally useless and can't touch you? 

Paris is one of my best performing maps.

My bans are: A - for (Always banned) is Karelia. I just hate how this map plays in standard mode. Other modes it is fine.

B - Usually Fishermans bay, the brawling area is a major YPYL zone, (You Push You Lose). This leaves mid, which is okay most of the time but you get fucked by arty. And the 1 line is usually a YPYL. Other notable mentions that frequent this spot are Airfield (YPYL), Abbey (Shit) and Mannerheim (YPYL).

 

13 hours ago, sr360 said:

I'm surprised to see Paris mentioned so often-- makes me think you haven't played Paris with a competent LT player. Paris does have limited tactical options but my bans are based on me playing a very vision-centric light tank heavy rotation for the last many months.

Top Choice: PEARL RIVER. Why would you leave this in and ban Paris? Take Paris, and remove every tactical choice you have and you get Pearl River. There is no vision play, no flex, just push into the brawl zone and brawl. The flank out west has chokepoints 1-2 TDs can control, but if you try to probe there a surprise TD will wipe out half your HP. Just say no.

Second choice: Abbey. The archetypical 3-corridor map, with no vision opportunities. The mid-rush-with-TD-blap is almost guaranteed, and the other options are push the trench and die or brawl the 1-2 while getting ass pounded by arty.

Honorable mentions: Minsk, Berlin and Empire's Border. Having said that, in Minsk you can do vision work down the mid ridge, and late game there are ample vision opportunities. Empire's Border is also an issue of staying alive, but the southern brawl is paramount, and is imbalanced too. Berlin has no field play, it's all city.

Airfield is always a contender, but it has some vision flex opportunities mid to late game. This is the archetypical YPYL map. Overlord is also horribly uninteresting.

Prok and Mali: if you ban these I will never talk to you again. Ever. Fish Bay is actually a solid LT map, but it is imbalanced in that North has the better spotting bush.

Other maps mentioned: Mines-- middle gets the attention but 1 line play is more tactically interesting. Studz is a fabulous late game LT map, almost one of the best in the game. Pilsen also has some interesting mid to late game tactical plays.

In the last month alone, I've racked up 6-8k spotting games on Minsk, Studz, Westfield, Redshire, Mines, Glacier, Muro, Highway, Fish Bay, Sand River, and El Halluf. Mali and Prok I go in looking for 10k games.

I'd identify with the rationale of these two posts more than any others:

  • Anyone saying Mali or Prok needs their head examined. Unless you play a Maus, they're two of the best maps in the entire game - win or lose, if you play semi-competently they're guaranteed farms.
  • I also saw Karelia mentioned - literally the best Assault map in game, and decent on Standard.
  • Paris is fine IMO - if you avoid field, you can enjoy it. I go to the heavy corner in everything except maybe lights. Paper meds, TDs etc. - all belong in heavy corner for the free farm.
  • Berlin is poor overall, but in a Russian med/other armoued med/heavium, on Encounter, it's almost a guaranteed Ace Tanker. Just rush cap and farm - simple.
  • A lot of people hate Fisherman's Bay but there are worse maps to ban. I agree with heavies though - it sucks to play.
  • How do people not enjoy Ghost Town? Assault is maybe the 2nd best after Karelia. Literally just pulled a casual 6k on Asaault with the LIS in between typing this - http://wotreplays.eu/site/5680509#ghost_town-snoregasm2-cs-52 (check the time stamp)
  • Abbey and Airfield both share single map ban slot for me, on rotation. Both stagnant, arty death traps with limited flex and, once locked into a flank, hard to disengage. Also, limited early vision makes it hard to know which flank to pick, making it a dice roll at the start of each game (also why sometimes you can get big games on them, despite their flaws).
  • My other ban is Minsk. I just don't know it, and I will not learn. Every time I unban it to try it I seem to have horrific teams, which lead to horrific games, which leads to banning again. It seems that pubbies playing it for years still don't know how to play it, so I don't see why I should have to either.

One thing no one has mentioned (that I can see) is that Encounter/Assault impacts this a lot. If bans got rid of those modes too, it would make Mines and maybe Erlenberg viable map bans as well. As is, no point banning either when you can still get them in the rotation. 

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1 hour ago, Snoregasm2 said:

One thing no one has mentioned (that I can see) is that Encounter/Assault impacts this a lot. If bans got rid of those modes too, it would make Mines and maybe Erlenberg viable map bans as well. As is, no point banning either when you can still get them in the rotation. 

Well, thats why i turn off assault, to reduce the amount of fuck maps (and less chance of erlenberg)

(i can see why ppl turn of encounter, Pilsen & Berlin 2 (new?) encounter maps are not ppls favorite ;D)

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14 hours ago, sr360 said:

Prok is the opposite of YPYL! LT with CVS=YPYW

My Prok experience is yelling at my team's lights/meds/TDs to spot while humping the red line in my (insert nation) heavy. The mid guarantees a slow and agonising death where arty is involved and the hill a swift one.

That said, there's a small depression with soft cover on each end of the 1 line where you can literally turn games around in a hulldown tank. 

 

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Sand River. I don't enjoy that map in any tank. Airfield is often on the ban list too. Actually I don't like any of the 3 desert maps.

Often Mines too, but at least matches are usually over quickly on it.
Mali/Prok if I'm playing slow heavies a bunch.

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I like brawling so Paris is fine with me, just go brawl in whatever tank I'm in and hope for the best, usually works out.

 

I'll never unban airfield,  it's the worst stalemate YPYL map in the game and nobody can convince me it's worth playing in any tank ever.

I got Siegfried Line also because it often feels like there's no play in standard mode, but I leave Assault and  Encounter on, that map plays fine when it's flipped. I'd rather be attacking than playing it in standard mode.

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19 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Well, thats why i turn off assault, to reduce the amount of fuck maps (and less chance of erlenberg)

(i can see why ppl turn of encounter, Pilsen & Berlin 2 (new?) encounter maps are not ppls favorite ;D)

I have encounter off due to Mines encounter, that abomination is worse than any other map in any situation, it's the pinnacle of shit design.

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3 hours ago, CandyVanMan said:

I have encounter off due to Mines encounter, that abomination is worse than any other map in any situation, it's the pinnacle of shit design.

Yeah, that one also suks, especially on tier 9 / 10

Imo maps like mines should be tier 8 max, like how Wildpark and Campania* is tier 6 max

*: i always forget the real name, but it was named Campania at first, a fitting name for the biggest camp map ever...

(i bet this was done on purpose...)

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20 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

 

 

That was such a bittersweet patch.

Lost my favourite tier 9 heavy, but got the best (at the time) tier 10 heavy, and got a "free" tier 8 premium that sucked donkey dick and was a complete mockery of the glorious old tier 9 T34.

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paris and that striankzi map. I wish i had 2 more slots i could exclude. most of the maps really suck balls.

and encounter/assault is off for me. I loathe those  game modes. so stupid 

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15 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Yeah, that one also suks, especially on tier 9 / 10

Imo maps like mines should be tier 8 max, like how Wildpark and Campania* is tier 6 max

*: i always forget the real name, but it was named Campania at first, a fitting name for the biggest camp map ever...

(i bet this was done on purpose...)

God the memories of being a teenager and wanting to grind up to the tier 9 Pershing 

I judged how I wanted a tank by how their muzzle brake looked like! I miss that

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On 12/21/2020 at 10:41 PM, sr360 said:

 

Prok and Mali: if you ban these I will never talk to you again. Ever. Fish Bay is actually a solid LT map, but it is imbalanced in that North has the better spotting bush.

^^this. The remaining maps from way back(when Serb was generally boss) are far better designed
than the later ones and those destroyed by redesign. 

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On 12/22/2020 at 4:09 AM, CraBeatOff said:

Pearl River is trash.

Not sure if I want to ban it or learn to play it.

Is there even anything to learn here? Even if I win my lane, I can not influence other lanes, and this map has many.

What usually happens is: enemy beats me with a stalemate in my corridor, and rest of team either crumbles or wins without me.

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5 hours ago, Bobi_Kreeg said:

Not sure if I want to ban it or learn to play it.

Is there even anything to learn here? Even if I win my lane, I can not influence other lanes, and this map has many.

What usually happens is: enemy beats me with a stalemate in my corridor, and rest of team either crumbles or wins without me.

Mid and the C6/E8 sideroads can at least influence two of the three flanks, but if you're in a heavy it's very easy to get locked out of both. I also think the mid's influence on the west side of the map is starting to matter less now that people realize how useless the west is in general.

Going north or the mid HT brawling alley when you're not in a top tier brawler is kind of where the issue starts. You really don't have a way to influence any other flank and flexing takes ages. That's when that stalemate you were talking about happens.

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