Your Excluded Maps

[PityFool 7,737]

13 hours ago, Bobi_Kreeg said:

Not sure if I want to ban it or learn to play it.

Is there even anything to learn here? Even if I win my lane, I can not influence other lanes, and this map has many.

What usually happens is: enemy beats me with a stalemate in my corridor, and rest of team either crumbles or wins without me.

I pulled all my replays on the map for a damn near 90% WR. Keep in mind this includes my first battles on the map since it returned and a lot of me re-learning it.

Here is what I do, almost every time. I take the most direct route to purple zone, seriously if you get there quickly you almost guarantee the win on that flank. Most of the time you cause panic because the enemy heavies don't want to push across exposing their sides. So what usually happens is the first 2 heavies push in and get rolled by your tanks on the lower ground with you shooting down on them from a hulldown position, and then there 1-2 that hide on the corner at the entrance to the lane. This works exactly the same from both spawns. DONT PLAY ANY OTHER PART OF THIS AREA!!!11! ONLY USE THE PURPLE CIRCLE FOR THE PURPLE NUMBERS!1!!

Once that is cleaned up, which usually doesn't take long, I would normally rotate back through the goat path up into middle and finish off the middle, if you win north + mid the game is over (highlighted in green assuming a south spawn). SOMETIMES I would use the enemy's goat path, but that always depends on how the battle is going and what tanks are left and where they are on the map. Because if you push enemy side, especially north goat path, while there are TDs and vision still in play you are going to get your ass lubed and tubed. However, as I said, sometimes this is a good play and can help make the mid cleanup quicker and easier.

This is using mostly heavies and meds, some TD's too. Awkwardly, the individual tank with the most battles on this map is my Bourrasque, which I take west aggressively through the rice fields but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by PityFool

[Hoolfool 36]

fishbay perma'd because its just a horrible map + karelia since the way it plays out on standard is super campy and hard to get dmg on 

[Bobi_Kreeg 379]

On 12/27/2020 at 12:38 PM, PityFool said:

 



 

I've been going there lately. And the scenario you wrote does not happen in my games. Maybe not at all on EU servers, idk?

I go there and enemies either don't cross at all. They camp the entrance in hulldown/sidescrape and draw me into a long stalemate.

OR. They just don't care about me. Bourrasque doesn't care, Bisonte doesn't care, GSOR doesn't care, Object 274xy92347 e doesn't care. etc. They rush at me, and we both die. :-D

I'm banning it.

 

[Private_Miros 2,966]

On 1/1/2021 at 3:02 PM, Bobi_Kreeg said:

I've been going there lately. And the scenario you wrote does not happen in my games. Maybe not at all on EU servers, idk?

I go there and enemies either don't cross at all. They camp the entrance in hulldown/sidescrape and draw me into a long stalemate.

OR. They just don't care about me. Bourrasque doesn't care, Bisonte doesn't care, GSOR doesn't care, Object 274xy92347 e doesn't care. etc. They rush at me, and we both die. :-D

I'm banning it.

 

I did go there a few times and got some decent games.

Sometimes they don't go there or they are camping the entrance, in which case you just fall back around to the middle.

[lavawing 498]

On 1/1/2021 at 10:02 PM, Bobi_Kreeg said:

I've been going there lately. And the scenario you wrote does not happen in my games. Maybe not at all on EU servers, idk?

I go there and enemies either don't cross at all. They camp the entrance in hulldown/sidescrape and draw me into a long stalemate.

OR. They just don't care about me. Bourrasque doesn't care, Bisonte doesn't care, GSOR doesn't care, Object 274xy92347 e doesn't care. etc. They rush at me, and we both die. :-D

I'm banning it.

 

My preferred strat (I play slow tanks) is to trade a few free shots in the middle, then flex back to the heavy corridor, either through the short route, if your tanks have a decisive advantage in the mid and the reds aren't poking, or siding down and taking the long route all the way around to shore up your heavies. 

The thing is you can always retreat back to around the entrance bit of the heavy corridor where it narrows and trade multiple tanks efficiently - if you're in a hulldown tank.

In something that has speed + turret armour + great gun depression it's also possible to go up to the town and take potshots at the traffic jam in the mid.

@PityFool

IMO pushing the heavy line through the short route is risky and matchup dependent because it only takes a Conq/Sconq/Chieftain/430U/277/IS-7 to completely deny the area. It's doubly risky because unless you're in a fast med you're still vulnerable to getting farmed while on the way, and if they have arty you can get double tracked/stunned/killed.

I don't think charging to the purple area is viable for most heavies except maybe the E75 TS/277. It would certainly be suicidal in something like an Amx Mle 51 which isn't a slow tank by any stretch of the imagination.

[SchnitzelTruck 3,600]

Now that I'm back I've excluded Siegfried Line and Highway.

Siegfried line is far too confined and options are extremely limited. In TD's you are either stuck having no real impact until after the game is decided, or adding your HP into the city peekaboo farm fest. In LT's you're just a shittier medium in every area on the map. In heavies you either bring one that can sidescrape, or you're constantly trying to reposition to find some sort of crossfire without getting dicked over by arty or the redline TDs. Nothing on that map flows well, everything feels desperate. All these downsides is also why nearly all my 9k+ damage games have been on this map. HP is super concentrated and all mistakes are punished.

Highway I just dislike as a solo player. Coordination is necessary to win on it reliably due to the size and how open it is. Its a pretty easy map to play in a platoon in my experience, but as a solo player you're really riding on having team mates do what they're supposed to do. You cant make up for everyone elses suckishness by loading prem and going hardcore carry mode since there's zero chokepoints and you're surrounded no matter where you are on the map.

 

I dont mind most of the other maps. They all have their downsides, but It's only on Siegfried and Highway where I feel pretty useless and good games feel accidental.

[PityFool 7,737]

2 hours ago, lavawing said:

 

@PityFool

IMO pushing the heavy line through the short route is risky and matchup dependent because it only takes a Conq/Sconq/Chieftain/430U/277/IS-7 to completely deny the area. It's doubly risky because unless you're in a fast med you're still vulnerable to getting farmed while on the way, and if they have arty you can get double tracked/stunned/killed.

I don't think charging to the purple area is viable for most heavies except maybe the E75 TS/277. It would certainly be suicidal in something like an Amx Mle 51 which isn't a slow tank by any stretch of the imagination.

What is the "short route" you're talking about?

I don't really understand what you're saying, because none of the situations you have described have actually occurred in my games. I've taken the AMX 51 there too and it dominates. Arty can't really hit you without positioning correctly, and they tend to choose the easier targets on the lower parts.

I take anything with armour there, slow or fast. It is such a controlling position if you have any ability at all you can just crush the flank and in the cases when they get pinned at the entrance, deny it completely. I'm just confused because it seems like we're talking about different things.

 

[lavawing 498]

1 hour ago, PityFool said:

What is the "short route" you're talking about?

I don't really understand what you're saying, because none of the situations you have described have actually occurred in my games. I've taken the AMX 51 there too and it dominates. Arty can't really hit you without positioning correctly, and they tend to choose the easier targets on the lower parts.

I take anything with armour there, slow or fast. It is such a controlling position if you have any ability at all you can just crush the flank and in the cases when they get pinned at the entrance, deny it completely. I'm just confused because it seems like we're talking about different things.

 

ah I misread your post. I thought the green route was the route you'd take towards the brawling corner in which case it wouldn't really make sense for anything but fast and armoured tanks.

on second reading, rushing to the corner and taking the inner spot (the purple circle) does work quite well, but as Bobi reported people sometimes just camp the entrance or rush you down. I guess there's also a chance of meeting someone else doing the same thing head on and losing a lot of HP in the process - which seems to happen at tier 10 quite a lot

the other thing is that if the enemy team decides to camp the entrance they can shut down the heavy corner with 2-3 tanks and guard the route to the mid from their side

This is what I'd usually do (very tank dependent)

red is the route I'd take 

green if you've managed to bleed the mid and enemy team has retreated (needs gundep)

blue/white is the default play esp if you don't have enough tanks to win the brawl in the north decisively. take white if you've lost the mid

it's effective in the sense you can reliably bleed/cripple tanks a minute or two into the game, kinda like farming the hill on mines, but only works with tanks with gundep/speed/armour/alpha, and is pretty iffy with 2 arty and even worse if they have 3

[Bobi_Kreeg 379]

From what you're posting, and if you are playing on SEA and NA server, I believe we have some serious meta differences for this map. Or we are not playing the same tier. I'm playing t7, t8, t9 and t8smm @EU these days.

The battles I fought are rarely decided on the top right corner. In fact, the least players go there. Could be because mm is filled with premium autoloaders instead of heavy tanks, and they rather go mid, or south.

 

Sometimes I'm all alone up there.

Sometimes, I'm alone and enemy sends 4. 

[Bobi_Kreeg 379]

Since you guys are persistent... I keep trying (failing). I'm playing the exact same scenario every single (f*ing) time. This it:

One or two heavy armor head north. In this case T28 is soloing. They encounter 2xBisonte, Bourasque and some other bursty shit. They die.

So north is DED, and enemies from north head to middle.

 

I'm at middle together with King Tiger and VK1000000. Across us is TS-5 and IS-3 in hulldown and sidescraping. West on the hill is Progetto 46. It's a fucking stalemate, like it always is when I play it.

Until they guys that crushed north come down, and overpower / facehug /burst us all to death.

 

10 other players all camp below red line and do nothing. When the entire map falls into enemy hands, they all roll over and die.

Game ends with score 15:5 or 15:3.

Now, I don't always lose, sometimes I win, but same scenario. And then even a win is a shitty win.

 

If I ever buy an OP premium autoloader that drives like a car and hits like Waffenträger auf e100, I'll unban it. Right now, fuck this map.

 

[Ezz 1,770]

Have to say, that sounds mostly like a pubbie issue as opposed to the map. But then that's a common issue for most maps really. I guess then ban the maps pubbies are worst at.

[Bobi_Kreeg 379]

I would define the problem as: isolation + unbalance. T8 MM is poisoned with OP tanks with high burst that go too fast.

If your team has Bourasques, GSORs, Progs or w/e, and the enemy doesn't: itz a free win. They just go from one flank to the other and clean up everything in their way. And you can't help it because every lane is isolated from the other.

[PityFool 7,737]

@Bobi_Kreeg

Seems like that's server specific pubbie meta. It's so retarded though because giving up the mid control and brawl area opens up massive vision and angles for enemies to dig out your teams camp.

I do remember around 2013 there was a meta on NA for the south spawn heavies to camp the bridge hulldown. So that lane became a stalemate most of the time which focused more effort in field. Currently on NA the brawl area and mid are the most focused zones. 

Might be worth looking into playing the rice fields more aggressively, but again if the enemy has mid control then you're limited in what you can achieve down there. 

@lavawing

Yea that makes sense that you misunderstood, because as mentioned what you were saying wasn't really making sense to what I was saying lmao. With regards to being countered by someone playing the same spot, yes it is possible, but that doesn't happen often so it's still worth commiting to for the all the times it does work. Also usually just being extra aggressive there tends to freak most players out and they back down a little, which just gives me the better position on higher ground and I can win. I have retreated back to the side path where it narrows to a choke point once or twice when my side has been overwhelmed on that flank. 

[lavawing 498]

1 hour ago, Bobi_Kreeg said:

Since you guys are persistent... I keep trying (failing). I'm playing the exact same scenario every single (f*ing) time. This it:

One or two heavy armor head north. In this case T28 is soloing. They encounter 2xBisonte, Bourasque and some other bursty shit. They die.

So north is DED, and enemies from north head to middle.

 

I'm at middle together with King Tiger and VK1000000. Across us is TS-5 and IS-3 in hulldown and sidescraping. West on the hill is Progetto 46. It's a fucking stalemate, like it always is when I play it.

Until they guys that crushed north come down, and overpower / facehug /burst us all to death.

 

10 other players all camp below red line and do nothing. When the entire map falls into enemy hands, they all roll over and die.

Game ends with score 15:5 or 15:3.

Now, I don't always lose, sometimes I win, but same scenario. And then even a win is a shitty win.

 

If I ever buy an OP premium autoloader that drives like a car and hits like Waffenträger auf e100, I'll unban it. Right now, fuck this map.

 

your team:

[woodman663 1]

So I looked through the thread and as far as I can tell these maps are not on any poster's ban list:

Berlin
El Halluf
Lakeville
Live Oaks
Malinovka
Murovanka
Redshire
Ruinberg
Prokhorovka
Serene Coast
Steppes
Tundra
Westfield

Not a list of maps I'd personally get very enthusiastic about, except for Mali, Redshire and Prokh (indeed, I do like to play light tanks, how could you tell?). I think I like Live Oaks quite a bit for most classes.

Considering the Map Discussion forum on this very site has a tagline that says no-one is allowed to like Serene Coast..I'm quite surprised it's on the list.

Edited January 5, 2021 by woodman663
Somehow overlooked Berlin, Redshire and Serene Coast initially

[Sapros 348]

I'm really disliking Berlin so far, but I am hoping it will become a less frustrating experience as people figure out how not to play it. 

 

 

[LetsMakeTheMagic 8]

I almost always ban Airfield and Erlenberg in any kind of tank. 

Other contenders are Studianzki and Pilsen even though I'm having decent games on those lately.

If I focus on T10 (Sconq, TP or Chief) I also try to include Malinovka because it's just shit if you can't go hill without 3 arties spanking you.

Empires Border is something I just downright feel useless in TDs and Lights so if I play those I include Airfield.

Ricefield Map is something I enjoy. I mostly do the same thing as PityFool. Try to dominate purple spot immediatly then rotate. 

[Wolfskrieg 0]

Mines, I can't believe there was only 1 other person who mentioned it.

 

After that, probably Minsk. I couldn't stand Ensk either because of the small size, but it's kind of unique and at least it's over quickly.

Mines has been around forever and really needs a tier limit.

[CandyVanMan 526]

I really wish for another map to block, so I could block Cliff, I want that map gone, as it's cancer in any tank, but there's always 2 other maps that are worse based on the tank you are playing.

[GehakteMolen 2,063]

Yeah, cliff is terrible, unless your a sniper tank, then u can sit in the back and wait

Berlin with heavy tanks also really starts to annoy me, when i defend i get screwed, when i push i get overrun, and arty can hit the heavys nice also, which is also annoying as hell...

[EvilMonkee 15]

Well, I am going to stick my head up and say Lakeville. I hate that map, 3 corridor bullshit.  Minsk or Ensk usually fill the other slot.  I tend to play exclusively meds.