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CraBeatOff

Equipment 2.0 & Platoon compositions & Tactics

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This will take a few edits to fully type out via my phone.

Equipment 2.0 has been very good for me, personally, for enjoyment of WoT pubs and for my preferred method of pubbing which is in a competent 3 person platoon in complimentary tanks. Everything I have to say in this post is with that perspective and the goal of winning as often and as efficiently as possible. If you, the reader, refuse for whatever reason to play with 2 others, fire premium ammo, or seek primarily to maximize dpg this might not be a useful post. I'm also going to talk mostly about tier 8 - these ideas apply to tier 9 pretty straightforwardly, but tier 10 has it's own peculiarities (specifically a bunch of broken HTs that make other options suboptimal). Tiers 6 and 7 lack the diversity that you get in 8+ but within the narrow range of those best in tier tanks the ideas work.

What Equipment 2.0 enabled

As @SchnitzelTruck observed in the Bourrasque thread, there are now builds that synergize with stylistic preferences, and this extends even further when your building your tanks to work with your platoonmates. In short - you can now lean into the strengths of a given tank or class harder, giving up some attribute but allowing your group to be more powerful on the net. 

This enables you to play more "unfairly". Your spotter can make more of their vision. Your support fire can max dpm, accuracy, mobility as needed. The advantages are less pronounced for tanks that rely on armor and hp - but this is Wotlabs! We best know by now that vision + firepower + flex is the recipe.

Vision is dead

Despite the developers best efforts, the game isn't yet a 15v15 3 lane HT pixel or HE brawl with arty and RNG tipping the balance of attrition. To my humble opinion vision is still what opens up (or stabilizes) most games/maps. Your platoon probably wants some vision. This is so you're not entirely at the mercy of pubbies on Prok, Mali, Muro, Westfield, Redshire, Steppes, Fish Bay, Studz, Minsk, Karelia, Highway, Sigfried, and Live Oaks. It's a lot of maps where vision can matter a whole heck of a lot - and a few others you can simply avoid losing if you can usher your idiots across vital crossings - Mtn Pass, Paris, Lakeville, Glacier, Ghost Town, Sand River. Vision can mean a MT with good base VR and optics, a wheelie boi or a properly set up LT. Even an S tank with binos can do work in some of these situations. I personally rarely run without a LT with a good driver - unless it's like a FR MT or Leo with a vision build. 

Bleed First, then Push

If you're running vision and you want to win you're gonna want some support fire. 2x E-100 and a Leo1 is a good platoon for many maps - but it's also a recipe for a fast 15-5 loss when the enemy EBR is unseeable, unhittable and your field flank crumbles in 120 seconds. This just isn't for me. And if you play 15v15 CW generally your first deployment is precisely to prevent that kind of given away match. So I'm bringing support fire tanks to compliment my vision.

Several reasons: 1. Wheelie boiz are king - you gotta pick them off because the pubbies can't 2. Crossfires are how the maps work. You gotta get 2 angles to dig out positions and progress 3. Even if you lose the brawl you can very very often camo camp the chokes and exits to stabilize a match giving time for your other flank or arty to work.

So punish the crossings, refuse to give up map control the wheelies and MTs and prevent your idiots from feeding their TDs. Get some vision tanks and setups!

Tank comp example walk thrus

There are more platoon comps than this - nothing here is exhaustive. Some of these compositions are sufficiently strong that you can just sub in some inferior tank and still win 70% easily and grind out massive credits at the same time (I'll drive my T34 for lazy profit sometimes!). But these are some of my favorites. 

Classique Bush Wank

  • LT-432 with CVS, optics and choice of vents or rammer. Inferior LTs work, but...
  • Prog46 with build of choice - turbo is nice, tank is so OP, anything works. Other inferior autoloading MTs work (Lorr40t, Skoda T27)
  • Sniper TD of choice - Skorp G (turbo rammer IRM), SU-130PM (IRM/IAU/turbo/rammer), S1(turbo/rammer/vents/binos)

This one is easy. You kemp boosh. Set up the LT in a forward bush. Put the MT and TD in different support angles and punish lazy idiots and stupid LTs. If there is an early punish option, you should probably do it, and then flex someplace to influence the midgame. 

Ricky Bobby I wanna GO FAST

  • EBR75 with optics, vents, and taster's choice. EVEN90 with turbo also works nicely. more VR less mobility and firepower. 
  • Bourrasque with gun mods or vision mods or a mix of both
  • More Bourrasque if you're feeling saucy, something with stopping power if not (with turbo of course)
    • Skorp G with turbo is fastest TD for chasing shit down or running away
    • LIS with turbo works great too!
    • GSOR1008 with turbo.

You deploy the same as the Classique - but you can now decided in the middle of the game to just go make shit dead. Pretty much anywhere on the map, and at any time, as long as the risk calculus is good. Not much survives a strafe from EBR75 and two Bourrasques, or a Skorp 490. You have to be careful with this power, it's easy to get blown up by HE. Excels at clean-up damage!

L'invisble

  • EVEN90 - turbo is best for flex, but building for CVS/binos can be memerific. 
  • Bourrasque set-up with gun mods for sniping. Or perhaps a 2nd TD or high alpha MT
  • S1 - the standard for sitting in a bush. Use a camo net if you're looking for memes, but turbo is the best for moving around with this platoon of course.

You win all the bush maps. Sit triangle, shoot stupids. Good luck if you pull all the city maps in a session! With 2 TDs, or something like a T34 you can make this work as well. Hitting with the SU-130PM and any other TD at the same time is always funny and effective (520+390, 520+490) - high roll killing 1k hp tanks or taking half the HP off a Bat25t is just grand. Put in a GSOR1008 for extra deletion power. Stuff like the STG/Ravioli/Chimera/Lansen can work in here too.

Trop Fort

  • TurBourr - turbo, optics, vents
  • Prog46 - turbo, vstab, choice or LIS with turbo. GSOR1008 can work too (turbo) if you can manage the pacing and downtime. 
  • WZ-120 - rammer, GLD, vents

This is probably the single most fun right now. Replacing your LT with a TurBourr means you'll get matches with no LTs in them. You probably win those because you're +1 LT unless you get a vision Bourr mirror. The Prog or LIS provide consistent accurate fire support, moderate amounts of hp, and the ability to relocate as needed. The WZ-120 is a sleeper in this build - innately fast with punishing DPM. You're losing the distance punishment capabilities of the Skorp and S1 - but getting tier 9 DPM and a fast tank with some armor for when you just need to bully to clear a spot. The ability of the WZ to bounce a shot or else trade 880 for 1 hit will enable your softies to spike and preserve their hps. You get some of the "go kill shit" abilities of the Ricky Bobby platoon but with more durability, more pen on hard targets, more DPM.

Le Boeuf

  • 432 or Turbourr 
  • CaernAX with turbo, or perhaps the E75TS.
  • S1 or WZ-120. Somua playing from support can work nicely. 

There is no more durable LT than Russian LT. Bourr has more hp, and the advantages discussed elsewhere. CaernAX brings enough accuracy and dpm to count as a sniper. You won't get the big hits or spike, but if you have 5 seconds on target you'll do as much dmg as a TD. E75TS 360 hits are meaningful and sufficiently accurate. Like the WZ-120 it has high base mobility for it's class, and acceptable armor. S1 obv can bully only sub 90mm guns. WZ-120 armor discussed above. This platoon will struggle a little on the open maps and as bottom tier, but still can and will work. You will be at little disadvantage on city maps however, and with good hulldowns and in flat MM can play however is needed to win. 

Tier 9s

At tier 9 you compose your platoons fairly similarly if you wish to play in this style with a LT. The LeoPTA has good enough firepower to sub in for soft single shot TDs and more flex and hp. WaffleIV with turbo is hilariously good at stopping pushes and punishing mistakes. T30 and 263 can play armor TD roles well. AMX 13 90 built with optics/vstab/turbo is really solid in LT role, but the EBR90 can easily handle spotting duties as well. Tier 9 HTs are stronger than their 8s counterparts when bottom tier, so there's more choice there. T-54LW is less kingly than the 432 but still works. Overall the composition of these platoons matters less at 9 than 8, simply because you can bring tier X firepower to shoot tier X tanks - you don't need a TD if you have a HT with a decent enough gun who can occupy a support position (if their armor isn't needed elsewhere). 

  • Most any LT + WaffleIV + LeoPTA
  • Most any LT + autoloader MT + WaffleIV/LeoPTA
  • Most any LT + autoloader MT + 263/T30/Conq/etc

Tier 10s

At tier 10, things swing back more towards the 8s compositions. This is primarily because of the power of the Strv 103B and Grille15 for locking down and punishing lanes, as well as the relative power of the tier X LTs compared to their tier 9 counterparts (way more alpha). HTs have much more power too, relative to 8s, so easily sub in for a MT because they can actually hold space. You get some more options in fire support too, with the 50B existing. Just avoid too much downtime or weak pen and slow fat superheavies. Nothing wrong with LT + Chief + TD. 

Map deployment, progression and stabilization walk thrus

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1 hour ago, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

tfw you only solo because you have no friends :feelsbad: 

TFW you have over 100 friends on your friends list yet only 5 still play regularly

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3 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

Wheelie boiz are king - you gotta pick them off because the pubbies can't

*Cries in 200 ping*

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2 hours ago, yoyoya2 said:

TFW you have over 100 friends on your friends list yet only 5 still play regularly

tfw you have plenty of friends online, but prefer playing alone because introvert

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7 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

This will take a few edits to fully type out via my phone.

Equipment 2.0 has been very good for me, personally, for enjoyment of WoT pubs and for my preferred method of pubbing which is in a competent 3 person platoon in complimentary tanks. Everything I have to say in this post is with that perspective and the goal of winning as often and as efficiently as possible. If you, the reader, refuse for whatever reason to play with 2 others, fire premium ammo, or seek primarily to maximize dpg this might not be a useful post. I'm also going to talk mostly about tier 8 - these ideas apply to tier 9 pretty straightforwardly, but tier 10 has it's own peculiarities (specifically a bunch of broken HTs that make other options suboptimal). Tiers 6 and 7 lack the diversity that you get in 8+ but within the narrow range of those best in tier tanks the ideas work.

What Equipment 2.0 enabled

As @SchnitzelTruck observed in the Bourrasque thread, there are now builds that synergize with stylistic preferences, and this extends even further when your building your tanks to work with your platoonmates. In short - you can now lean into the strengths of a given tank or class harder, giving up some attribute but allowing your group to be more powerful on the net. 

This enables you to play more "unfairly". Your spotter can make more of their vision. Your support fire can max dpm, accuracy, mobility as needed. The advantages are less pronounced for tanks that rely on armor and hp - but this is Wotlabs! We best know by now that vision + firepower + flex is the recipe.

Vision is dead

 Despite the developers best efforts, the game isn't yet a 15v15 3 lane HT pixel or HE brawl with arty and RNG tipping the balance of attrition. To my humble opinion vision is still what opens up (or stabilizes) most games/maps. Your platoon probably wants some vision. This is so you're not entirely at the mercy of pubbies on Prok, Mali, Muro, Westfield, Redshire, Steppes, Fish Bay, Studz, Minsk, Karelia, Highway, Sigfried, and Live Oaks. It's a lot of maps where vision can matter a whole heck of a lot - and a few others you can simply avoid losing if you can usher your idiots across vital crossings - Mtn Pass, Paris, Lakeville, Glacier, Ghost Town, Sand River. Vision can mean a MT with good base VR and optics, a wheelie boi or a properly set up LT. Even an S tank with binos can do work in some of these situations. I personally rarely run without a LT with a good driver - unless it's like a FR MT or Leo with a vision build. 

Bleed First, then Push

If you're running vision and you want to win you're gonna want some support fire. 2x E-100 and a Leo1 is a good platoon for many maps - but it's also a recipe for a fast 15-5 loss when the enemy EBR is unseeable, unhittable and your field flank crumbles in 120 seconds. This just isn't for me. And if you play 15v15 CW generally your first deployment is precisely to prevent that kind of given away match. So I'm bringing support fire tanks to compliment my vision.

Several reasons: 1. Wheelie boiz are king - you gotta pick them off because the pubbies can't 2. Crossfires are how the maps work. You gotta get 2 angles to dig out positions and progress 3. Even if you lose the brawl you can very very often camo camp the chokes and exits to stabilize a match giving time for your other flank or arty to work.

So punish the crossings, refuse to give up map control the wheelies and MTs and prevent your idiots from feeding their TDs. Get some vision tanks and setups!

Tank comp example walk thrus

LT-432 with CVS, optics and choice of vents or rammer. 

Map deployment, progression and stabilization walk thrus

triple heavium is still king cmv

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6 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Heavium is always the answer

unless u end up with 3x IS3 on prok in a tier 10 fight with 3 arty and 2x ebr 105 that are not entirely braind dead :P

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11 hours ago, lavawing said:

triple heavium is still king cmv

That's what this post is aiming for.

5 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

unless u end up with 3x IS3 on prok in a tier 10 fight with 3 arty and 2x ebr 105 that are not entirely braind dead :P

Or WZ 1-4s on any of the maps i listed above. Some crossfires just can't be pushed through. 3x heavium cannot always win fast and decisively enough to get map control!

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I don't platoon, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but I imagine the ideal comps at tier 8 will be as 1. Vision, 2. Burst/DPM/Penetration, 3. Stopping power.

So I guess:

  • Vision - EBR/LT-432 (active) or ELC/preferred lights (passive). Maybe Bourrasque if you have optics.
  • Burst - Progetto/autoloader of choice. If you want pure DPM/ability to use it, LIS/Progetto. If you want to hedge against tier 10s, SU/Skorp/STRV, each with gold.
  • Stopping - 703/E75 TS/other heavy of choice.

I also guess in platoons tanks like Progetto and Bourrasque are great as they can perform multiple roles well, as they are OP. Renegade too, could fall under both DPM and Stopping power.

Am I doing this right?

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Don't yall have better things to do on Christmas than going on a ded forum to argue about pixel tanks?:kjugh: (I certainly don't.)

1 hour ago, CraBeatOff said:

That's what this post is aiming for.

Or WZ 1-4s on any of the maps i listed above. Some crossfires just can't be pushed through. 3x heavium cannot always win fast and decisively enough to get map control!

Now to be fair, I wouldn't take an IS-3 for tier 8s these days - much too blind, and triple 53TP is a bit too soft / lacks raw pen, but triple 75TS/Renegade should still be quite powerful, esp since the Renegade can sub for meds/TDs in a pinch.

I do agree about vision and equipment 2.0, and I'd like to add a word about TD spam enabled by reworked maps which makes the old hurr durr rush B heavium playstyle though not exactly obsolete, at least no longer optimal on a lot of the maps.

Things like triple T-10 platoons used to be completely absurd and still are on city maps, bringing a stupid amount of firepower and armour very quickly into the game and basically melting flanks in 5 mins. The question which now arises, since maps are now not only corridors, but corridors with a great bit of foliage on each end, is whether having guaranteed vision and a more balanced complement of tanks > winning the brawl.

I honestly don't know, but my current hunch is that it might all come down to which maps you disable 

 

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3 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

I don't platoon, so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but I imagine the ideal comps at tier 8 will be as 1. Vision, 2. Burst/DPM/Penetration, 3. Stopping power.

So I guess:

  • Vision - EBR/LT-432 (active) or ELC/preferred lights (passive). Maybe Bourrasque if you have optics.
  • Burst - Progetto/autoloader of choice. If you want pure DPM/ability to use it, LIS/Progetto. If you want to hedge against tier 10s, SU/Skorp/STRV, each with gold.
  • Stopping - 703/E75 TS/other heavy of choice.

I also guess in platoons tanks like Progetto and Bourrasque are great as they can perform multiple roles well, as they are OP. Renegade too, could fall under both DPM and Stopping power.

Am I doing this right?

I would say it's about 80% correct. The problem is the third piece: Crab and I (as well as our usual platoonmates) tend to play very highly coordinated and complementary platoon setups, and a heavy going to the brawl can work in the right hands, but often is out of support range for the other two players. Ofttimes our third is a pure firepower tank, quite possibly a TD such as a Strv or SU-130PM or Skorp. Coupled with a good vision tank you can get some hefty punish down. Typical T8 platoons look like 432/Bourr/S1, or HWK/Prog/GSOR. We try not too have too much burst (2 autoloaders means a lot of downtime), and sometimes we can bring a Lis in the support fire role instead of a TD especially if the burst is a Bourrasque (to cover reloads). Also, no heavy is heavy enough to stop reliably at T8.

For tier 9, LeoPTA and Waffle4 tend to be highly prized for support fire, StdB, Skoda, or even Bat25 AP or Char4 for burst. At tier 10, 103B is king of support fire. STB is basically an infinite-round autoloader. Leo1 is great. EBR and T-100 are preferred.

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6 hours ago, PlanetaryGenocide said:

Just bring three T49's they can do literally everything up to and including 300 damage to the front of a Maus ez 
:kappa:

'useless noob scouts'

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That's a really good theory crafting, but for maybe 1% of the matches? From my perspective, for most platoons this will not be applicable, as the matches in random battles play by themselves, aka the game being called a "15 : 1 simulator" by now.

You get put on a red team, your super duper platoon composition and equipment will mean nothing. You get put on a green team, your super duper platoon composition and equipment will mean nothing. Sure, it will help with farming, but I don't see a decisive factor for winning in mismatched teams.

Then again, I have to make disclaimer: I haven't been playing in successful platoons much, so I might be talking out of my a**.

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41 minutes ago, InconnuGlitterBoy said:

That's a really good theory crafting, but for maybe 1% of the matches? From my perspective, for most platoons this will not be applicable, as the matches in random battles play by themselves, aka the game being called a "15 : 1 simulator" by now.

You get put on a red team, your super duper platoon composition and equipment will mean nothing. You get put on a green team, your super duper platoon composition and equipment will mean nothing. Sure, it will help with farming, but I don't see a decisive factor for winning in mismatched teams.

Then again, I have to make disclaimer: I haven't been playing in successful platoons much, so I might be talking out of my a**.

Getting massive win rate in a platoon depends on two things. The skill of the players within the platoon, and the tanks being used. 3 blue or better players in a platoon can make enough of an impact to mitigate team imbalances and have an astronomical win rate. If you're below that skill level then your individual skills wont make a difference and you'll see very marginal benefits if any at all. You first need to be able to outplay pretty much everyone you face, then you get 2 more people who can also outplay anything they face. To boost your win rate higher you then fine tune what tanks you're playing which is what this topic is about.

Theory crafting is great but its really only for higher levels of play to optimize your ass kicking.

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5 hours ago, SchnitzelTruck said:

Theory crafting is great but its really only for higher levels of play to optimize your ass kicking.

Playing EBR 75 with one Bour and other medium (STA-2 or Bour.), sitting at 77% WR after 58 battles. One yellow, one green, one blue. Guess it works. 

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42 minutes ago, InconnuGlitterBoy said:

Playing EBR 75 with one Bour and other medium (STA-2 or Bour.), sitting at 77% WR after 58 battles. One yellow, one green, one blue. Guess it works. 

Jesus just the BR + Bor combo would net you 70% winrate - guaranteed vision advantage

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1 hour ago, CandyVanMan said:

Are there any tanks you don't have turbo on?

Among things i play regularly: T49 and Sheridan, WZ-120-1, Chief, T-100, Manticore, LeoPTA, 50B.

Do the EBRs count? 

It's kinda to the point where if a turbo build isn't viable i probably just don't play that tank very much.

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I see you recommend turbo on Skorp, but would that be viable solo, as I really don't like relying on pubbies for spots, and I'm not sure I want to swap IRM for turbo.

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Yeah, I mean that seems to be the zest of the thread. If platooned and you have platoon mates for vision, go full for mobility and gun handling. But solo, that vision is more important than marginally better mobility.

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I've been watching skill4ltu on youtube. He plays solo and prefers Vents/Rammer/VStab, but his crewmen have all the skillz and runs food all the time. On tanks that still have bad vision with food he indeed still uses Optics/Rammer/Vstab.

Also, when extremely bored, I watch low tier clubbers. The binoculars are king.

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Yea this is the pub and platoon specific sub forum and this thread is all about splitting roles between platoonmates - avoiding compromises. Min-max across persons if you will. Crab hates compromise!

I probably wouldn't pub the Skorp without optics. If forced to solo a Skorp I'd probably take the aiming hit and run rammer/vision/turbo.

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