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Global Map: Renaissance - New Spaghetti Autoloader - No Chief available

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https://worldoftanks.com/en/news/game-modes/global-map-renaissance-event/

New italian autoloader.  Tons of people whining that the T95/FV4001 isn't available as a reward for the first time.

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There were previous 2 campaigns where you had the chance to get it. If they haven't, i somehow doubt things have changed so drastically that they can now.

Of all the tanks, they decided to remove the Chieftain. Typical WG move. It's so advanced that you don't know if they are trolling or actually retarded.

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IMO they shd just nerf the damn thing or buff the rest of tier 10 correspondingly. As it is, it has no place being at tier 10, and platoons of Chieftains ruin tier 10 for anyone who can't, or doesn't run them. 

Having competitive CW tanks is nice, but not nice enough to justify rendering the endgame unplayable for players who do not have the tank. And tanks like these not only poison tier 8, which is already enough of a toxic cesspit as it is, but fucks over tier 9s which get to fight tier 10s every other game.

I'd rather have stupidly OP tier 8 prems like the Bourrasque than tier 10 reward tanks. At least with the former you can just open your wallet instead of having the tank locked behind a language and grind wall

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Chieftain is 10x less annoying as 279 though, 279 is unkillable for anything with less as 300 pen, while a chieftain can atleast nu killed fairly easy. Sure hulldown its strong etc, but in the open? its as though as an Wz-111-5, aka, paper...

a 279 can drive sideways and still expect to survive...

Also both are arty target nr 1 (it seems) and 279 does much better in that case as chieftain (from observing)

Chieftain is still stupid, but slightly less

(and both need nerf, 279 with 310 HEAT, worse reload and worse gun handling will be a whole different tank, it then has to get closer or try and flank + idiots wont do so well with it anymore...) Chieftain can just get a mobility nerf and some worse gun handling (and less hp its medium / heavy hybrid, 2000 would be sufficient...)

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56 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

Chieftain is 10x less annoying as 279 though, 279 is unkillable for anything with less as 300 pen, while a chieftain can atleast nu killed fairly easy. Sure hulldown its strong etc, but in the open? its as though as an Wz-111-5, aka, paper...

a 279 can drive sideways and still expect to survive...

Also both are arty target nr 1 (it seems) and 279 does much better in that case as chieftain (from observing)

Chieftain is still stupid, but slightly less

(and both need nerf, 279 with 310 HEAT, worse reload and worse gun handling will be a whole different tank, it then has to get closer or try and flank + idiots wont do so well with it anymore...) Chieftain can just get a mobility nerf and some worse gun handling (and less hp its medium / heavy hybrid, 2000 would be sufficient...)

im sorry but i honestly contracted brain cancer reading this

not trying to start a fight on which brokenly OP tank has the biggest OP Epeen here, because neither tank is balanced. but a cheiftian cannot be killed "fairly easily" when played by someone with half a brain, nor can the 279e just drive sideways and expect to survive lmao. both tanks are broken equally and dont belong in the first place. 

also ur proposed idea of how to balance the 279e/Cheiftian makes zero sense, you basically just want to pull a WG and completely ignore the core problem of the tanks and just make the guns so dogshit that its not enjoyable to play (anyone else getting 430u flashbacks here?). really putting a pin in WG's "shit to play, shit to play against" mentality there.

also in regards to the campaign, and anyone bitching about the cheiftian not being available. its been available for two whole years and 5-6 campaigns/bond auctions up until now. if you didnt get one by this point, then you probably weren't ever getting one to begin with. and as @Assassin7 put it, good. the game doesn't really need more thrown into the pool.

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My few thoughts on the issue, for what they're worth.

First off, I don't know why everyone is freaking out. Most likely the Chieftain has only been removed from the reward pool for this campaign, and will return in the Summer or next Winter's campaign. WG has removed reward tanks from the pool for a campaign in the past, so this is nothing new. If the Chieftain was being removed from the pool permanently, I would expect an announcement about that (which we may still get, but have not gotten yet).

 

Second, it's a bit of a sticky situation for WG.

On the one hand, the Chieftain is utterly broken. We all know this. So, the fewer of them in MM, the better.

On the other hand, if you're trying to get into CW, you kind of need a Chieftain/279(e)/260/907. If you just have the tech tree 140 and 277, you'll be competing with 99 other players in your clan who have the same exact tanks. So, at this point, limiting access to the Chieftain would hinder anyone getting into CW in the future. While there aren't really that many new players getting into CW at this point, they are still there.

However, this is only a sticky situation because WG refuses to nerf the Chieftain. If they would just do that, it would resolve the entire issue. But, knowing WG, that's never going to happen.

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Why don't they just make the Chieftain, 279,907 and all the other tier 10 rewards tanks a different tier such as tier 11 or something that separates them and give them -1 MM so they will always be in a full tier 10 game with a limit of 1 per game. Don't change their stats but then also have a tier cap in CW so that you start seeing more tech tree tanks in CW.  Its insane that nowadays CW is all reward tanks. Maybe make it so that you have a tier cap of 155. Therefore you can have 10 tier 10s and 5 tier 11s. Things like this would add strategy to CW lineups again.

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Maybe they should just ban reward tanks from CW, or at least campaigns. That would solve the "if you dont have one you're screwed" issue, AND make it more fair on clans that dont have many/any of them. 

That gets rid of the 907/chieftan meta. And it also gets rid of the dumb 260/279e stuff as well  (im not sure if its still meta but 260 was becoming super meta around the time just before I stopped playing CW)

Im pretty sure they did do this at one point for one campaign or something years back, and everyone was back to using 140s and stuff. I think there was some grumbling from the top clans at the time but frankly I remember it working well. 

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56 minutes ago, Assassin7 said:

Maybe they should just ban reward tanks from CW, or at least campaigns. That would solve the "if you dont have one you're screwed" issue, AND make it more fair on clans that dont have many/any of them. 

That gets rid of the 907/chieftan meta. And it also gets rid of the dumb 260/279e stuff as well  (im not sure if its still meta but 260 was becoming super meta around the time just before I stopped playing CW)

Im pretty sure they did do this at one point for one campaign or something years back, and everyone was back to using 140s and stuff. I think there was some grumbling from the top clans at the time but frankly I remember it working well. 

 

That would help with the issue of reward tanks in Clan Wars. But you would still have the issue of Chief/279(e) running around in pubs. So it's only a partial solution.

WG has actually banned reward tanks in several tournaments recently, as well as Ranked.

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The meltdown from the pubbies has been amusing.

 

That's about all I really care about nowadays. Game balance has long been a thing of the past. Have given up entirely on thinking too hard about it.

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10 hours ago, Assassin7 said:

Maybe they should just ban reward tanks from CW, or at least campaigns. That would solve the "if you dont have one you're screwed" issue, AND make it more fair on clans that dont have many/any of them. 

That gets rid of the 907/chieftan meta. And it also gets rid of the dumb 260/279e stuff as well  (im not sure if its still meta but 260 was becoming super meta around the time just before I stopped playing CW)

Im pretty sure they did do this at one point for one campaign or something years back, and everyone was back to using 140s and stuff. I think there was some grumbling from the top clans at the time but frankly I remember it working well. 

they're already banned in ranked battles so the only place they get to shine is at tier 10 which no one plays anyway, except during marathons

in the first place making reward tanks so good that CW effectively requires them is stupid. it's like requiring industry experience for a rookie position, when someone without industry experience wouldn't be hired and therefore wouldn't get industry experience, ever. 

wot already has no esports and this kind of mismanagement is the sort that kills CW deader than dead

btw happy new year nerds

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territory

On 12/31/2020 at 4:56 PM, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

im sorry but i honestly contracted brain cancer reading this

not trying to start a fight on which brokenly OP tank has the biggest OP Epeen here, because neither tank is balanced. but a cheiftian cannot be killed "fairly easily" when played by someone with half a brain, nor can the 279e just drive sideways and expect to survive lmao. both tanks are broken equally and dont belong in the first place. 

also ur proposed idea of how to balance the 279e/Cheiftian makes zero sense, you basically just want to pull a WG and completely ignore the core problem of the tanks and just make the guns so dogshit that its not enjoyable to play (anyone else getting 430u flashbacks here?). really putting a pin in WG's "shit to play, shit to play against" mentality there.

also in regards to the campaign, and anyone bitching about the cheiftian not being available. its been available for two whole years and 5-6 campaigns/bond auctions up until now. if you didnt get one by this point, then you probably weren't ever getting one to begin with. and as @Assassin7 put it, good. the game doesn't really need more thrown into the pool.

Chieftain has no armour, except turret face and UFP, and does have a big, soft LFP + 35mm roof armour...

Unless its hulldown, its cardboard against anything with 220 pen or more and due to 35mm roof armour, arty deals a ton of dmg to it.

So the question is, how many are hull down? Well, more often then not, they are not hull down...

An 279 meanwhile can sit in the open, and bounce anything head on, unless the guy shooting has A: gold shells with >300 pen and B: uses them Because the side is also sloped, it can autobounce till ~60 deg, instead of ~70

There are more ppl in randoms not shooting gold, as there are chieftains going hull down unless ofc i only meet the shitty chieftains, but so far not an single game i have been impressed by an chieftain, while 279 proves a problem (for either my or any team) every single game...

ps: 279 armour scheme cant rly be nerfed, so its either gun or mobility, making it rly slow is also possible, but it had 4 tracks irl** to make it fast and mobile, so that would be awkward... Chieftain is only OP because of turret / gun combo, nerfing the turret would ruin it, so how to nerf then? (adding a shitty hatch?)

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On 12/31/2020 at 3:56 PM, Deus__Ex__Machina said:

im sorry but i honestly contracted brain cancer reading this

not trying to start a fight on which brokenly OP tank has the biggest OP Epeen here, because neither tank is balanced. but a cheiftian cannot be killed "fairly easily" when played by someone with half a brain, nor can the 279e just drive sideways and expect to survive lmao. both tanks are broken equally and dont belong in the first place. 

also ur proposed idea of how to balance the 279e/Cheiftian makes zero sense, you basically just want to pull a WG and completely ignore the core problem of the tanks and just make the guns so dogshit that its not enjoyable to play (anyone else getting 430u flashbacks here?). really putting a pin in WG's "shit to play, shit to play against" mentality there.

also in regards to the campaign, and anyone bitching about the cheiftian not being available. its been available for two whole years and 5-6 campaigns/bond auctions up until now. if you didnt get one by this point, then you probably weren't ever getting one to begin with. and as @Assassin7 put it, good. the game doesn't really need more thrown into the pool.

 

3 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

territory

Chieftain has no armour, except turret face and UFP, and does have a big, soft LFP + 35mm roof armour...

Unless its hulldown, its cardboard against anything with 220 pen or more and due to 35mm roof armour, arty deals a ton of dmg to it.

So the question is, how many are hull down? Well, more often then not, they are not hull down...

An 279 meanwhile can sit in the open, and bounce anything head on, unless the guy shooting has A: gold shells with >300 pen and B: uses them Because the side is also sloped, it can autobounce till ~60 deg, instead of ~70

There are more ppl in randoms not shooting gold, as there are chieftains going hull down unless ofc i only meet the shitty chieftains, but so far not an single game i have been impressed by an chieftain, while 279 proves a problem (for either my or any team) every single game...

ps: 279 armour scheme cant rly be nerfed, so its either gun or mobility, making it rly slow is also possible, but it had 4 tracks irl** to make it fast and mobile, so that would be awkward... Chieftain is only OP because of turret / gun combo, nerfing the turret would ruin it, so how to nerf then? (adding a shitty hatch?)

I agree broadly with @Deus__Ex__Machina - both Chieftain and 279 are broken and OP, and trying to say the Chieftain isn't is wrong - but I think what @GehakteMolen is trying to say (although maybe not clearly) is that the Chief has the lower floor/higher ceiling, and the 279 is vice versa. 

The Chief is a super unicum's dream with it's turret armour, mobility, gun handling and gun depression.  A 279 is a pubbie's dream in that they can RRR and autoaim HEAT and still do their own hitpoints in damage without blinking, without other pubbies doing much beyond HE spam if you keep them in front of you. Good players will obviously know how to take down both, but all things being equal a Chieftain playing to it's strengths by a great player is, to me, more annoying/harder than a 279 in the same scenario, at least one on one/end game. Early game, 279s are better at rolling/holding entire flanks and pushing the tempo in tier 8/9 games.

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1 hour ago, Snoregasm2 said:

I agree broadly with @Deus__Ex__Machina - both Chieftain and 279 are broken and OP, and trying to say the Chieftain isn't is wrong - but I think what @GehakteMolen is trying to say (although maybe not clearly) is that the Chief has the lower floor/higher ceiling, and the 279 is vice versa.  

The Chief is a super unicum's dream with it's turret armour, mobility, gun handling and gun depression.  A 279 is a pubbie's dream in that they can RRR and autoaim HEAT and still do their own hitpoints in damage without blinking, without other pubbies doing much beyond HE spam if you keep them in front of you. Good players will obviously know how to take down both, but all things being equal a Chieftain playing to it's strengths by a great player is, to me, more annoying/harder than a 279 in the same scenario, at least one on one/end game. Early game, 279s are better at rolling/holding entire flanks and pushing the tempo in tier 8/9 games.

The bold part mostly ^^

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8 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

 

I agree broadly with @Deus__Ex__Machina - both Chieftain and 279 are broken and OP, and trying to say the Chieftain isn't is wrong - but I think what @GehakteMolen is trying to say (although maybe not clearly) is that the Chief has the lower floor/higher ceiling, and the 279 is vice versa. 

The Chief is a super unicum's dream with it's turret armour, mobility, gun handling and gun depression.  A 279 is a pubbie's dream in that they can RRR and autoaim HEAT and still do their own hitpoints in damage without blinking, without other pubbies doing much beyond HE spam if you keep them in front of you. Good players will obviously know how to take down both, but all things being equal a Chieftain playing to it's strengths by a great player is, to me, more annoying/harder than a 279 in the same scenario, at least one on one/end game. Early game, 279s are better at rolling/holding entire flanks and pushing the tempo in tier 8/9 games.

I still have PTSD from being driven over like a speed bump by 279 platoons running hardening and turbo...............................................

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Another CW Tank, God damn it and I really wanted to be done with this game. I'm waiting for the "auction" rules for how many games I need to play to be able to participate.
BTW I really never got the whole thing about the chieftain never really found it to be a problem. But that's just me I guess.

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On 12/31/2020 at 3:30 AM, H4NI said:

There were previous 2 campaigns where you had the chance to get it. If they haven't, i somehow doubt things have changed so drastically that they can now.

Of all the tanks, they decided to remove the Chieftain. Typical WG move. It's so advanced that you don't know if they are trolling or actually retarded.

I thought it was 4 previous campaigns where you had a chance to get it?

I think its normal rotation.  Its been available for four campaigns and they are rotating it out for a campaign like they did with other tanks previously.

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5 hours ago, Bavor said:

I thought it was 4 previous campaigns where you had a chance to get it?

I think its normal rotation.  Its been available for four campaigns and they are rotating it out for a campaign like they did with other tanks previously.

Even worse... I don't even rememeber correctly. Haven't played the last one since there weren't new tanks...

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Well, on tomato.gg there is winrate curves for na and 1 is chieftain, the other 279e, i guess its clear which is worst balanced vehicle of these 2 :serb:

image.png.9662488f6c10387d93328a052d9c3e0a.png

ps: ofc its the russian heavy tank, where players win 6% more as in other tanks!

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@GehakteMolen I think those winrate curves tell us more about the method of acquisition of either vehicle than anything. True shitters have no chance of completing the missions for a 279e unless they pay a good player to do it for them.  

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They are both broken but in different ways, both allow players to far exceed thier expected outputs though so both need to be balanced

I think 279 is less of an issue as there are fewer of them, but it is too retard proof to be a tier 10

Chief is just as easy to play IMO.. you just have to learn maps and the game is the exact same on that map every time you play it because you're too difficult to deal with - you could nerf this tank by nerfing it's gun dep to -5 and woopdidoo it stops being so problematic

 

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On 1/9/2021 at 11:09 PM, sohojacques said:

@GehakteMolen I think those winrate curves tell us more about the method of acquisition of either vehicle than anything. True shitters have no chance of completing the missions for a 279e unless they pay a good player to do it for them.  

According to wot-news there are 11793 279 on EU server vs 20896 Chieftain, so while there are more chieftain, there are still plenty of 279 (and i have seen more as one plenty of 50-55% ppl driving 279e)

Chieftain is for sure more flexible / more suited for unicums, but 279 has the highest moe requirement of any tank... (assuming that website is right)

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2 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

(and i have seen more as one plenty of 50-55% ppl driving 279e)

I’ve seen a lot of players with well below 50% WR in the Chief, as reflected by your graphs above. 

 

 

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