Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Shadivak said:

The crew grind is absolutely terrible. Playing without sixth sense is rage inducing. Getting clowned by people with 5 skill crews in tier 5-6, while you're trying to rank up the first skill, absolutely blows. I have no idea if this will help casuals/new players, and I'm sure WG will fuck it up. But, as a casual, who mostly sucks, I think some kind of change to crews was needed. The difference in effectiveness between a 1 skill crew, and a 3 skill crew, is pretty fucking enormous. And, let's be honest. Tank effectiveness at higher tiers, with 5 skill crews, is pretty absurd.

Nearly all my crews are 2-3 skills. You don't need more to be competitive. The third skill wasn't even that needed, it's just because you lose one commander skill on sixth sense, and the second skill is BIA. So the third was needed for the view range skills. Make sixth sense default and you only need 2 crew skills to be competitive IMO.

The new system seems to make the gap between pay2progress and others, and between people who really focussed on crew training to 5-6 and up skills and others even bigger than currently.

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Private_Miros said:

Nearly all my crews are 2-3 skills. You don't need more to be competitive. The third skill wasn't even that needed, it's just because you lose one commander skill on sixth sense, and the second skill is BIA. So the third was needed for the view range skills. Make sixth sense default and you only need 2 crew skills to be competitive IMO.

The new system seems to make the gap between pay2progress and others, and between people who really focussed on crew training to 5-6 and up skills and others even bigger than currently.

I personally think you only need to have one full skill to be decently competitive. just Sixth sense and a full repairs crew and in most tanks I feel perfectly competitive. of course there are a number of tanks that need a specific combination of skills before they start being properly competitive, but in general? Just one 100% skill doesn't feel like any noticeable disadvantage in pubs to me. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crew with this much skills is only level 54 when converted to 2.0:

image.png.15ec09eebbf0e5915a027ec2043d781f.png

I would've expected it to be maxed out, but it's nowhere near 75 levels... The zero perk crew members really get nerfed.

I have tons of tanks with 3-4 skills, which is all you need in the old system. For example, I have full crews for all 5 russian tier X heavies, but since the new system allows to use one crew with up to 3 tanks, I'd rather combine those crews to have 2 better crews rather than 5 mediocre ones.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea. Thats the thing. Now you can have all the essential skills by the 3rd level. Because you have a list of skills and you pick which ever you want, when ever you want. 

In the new system, the best skills are locked behind levels. You cant pick the best ones first. You need to invest millions and millions of exp points to unlock all the usefull skills.

And you get fucked along the way. First they fuck you when converting, then they take your remaining 850.000 exp books away. 

And if you want to transfer crew to another tank. You have to pay gold, or lose a percentage of your total exp. Your crews dont just go from 100 to 90% like they do now when transfering for credits, but you lose % from your total skill points. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jul_Le said:

The zero perk crew members really get nerfed.

How are they converted? Do they retain an innate benefit or is it completely gone? Because, you know, they sold you something and they are now changing the system to where what you specifically purchased, does not exist anymore, without your consent.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Madner Kami said:

How are they converted? Do they retain an innate benefit or is it completely gone? Because, you know, they sold you something and they are now changing the system to where what you specifically purchased, does not exist anymore, without your consent.

For now completely gone. The system only looks at life time battle xp earned.

But that is IMO likely to change for a further test iteration. Now it's just the basics.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just wondering how will a typical EU player manage to set up their crews with the new system. Most of them find intellectually challenging to use keyboard and mouse at the same time, have wrong crew setups with current system etc... It's just too complicated. Besides being bad system overall.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this system will fuck new players sideways. I managed to pull my wife into WoT, and she has interesting strategy. She is stopping at tier 6, and grinding crews there until they have 3 full skills before proceeding to tier 7. in the new system, the moment she decides to move to tier 7, she will be punished with 10% of the crew XP (assuming she will pay silver, but not gold for the conversion). And another 10% whenever she advances up a tier. Before, players like her would lose only 10% of the major qualification, which is like 10-11k of xp, which can be compensated for quite quickly. 

On the other hand, players like me will be fucked the other way. I have all the tanks I want in the garage, and those that I don't play as often, they have usually 2 full skills and 3rd on 90 something %. Those tanks are usually tier 8s and 9s that I've kept, while the "main" crew that was grinding through the tree from low tiers is now on tier 10 and has 4-5 skills (usually 4 full skills and 5th on 90something%). The lower quality crews are practically useless because they will get like 30-40 points after conversion. Counter argument is "yeah, but you can use your tier 10 crew instead", which is true, BUT i must either pay gold or lose 10% of the total crew XP which is insane. I just checked for my batchat crew what would that mean, and i would lose 1.3 million crew xp. So basically I would have to pay 12.5 million credits in order to partially compensate (the 0.5mil are for the retraining itself). 

The last point is, I tried some battles in Sandbox with my batchat, and there are some really wonky builds you can run. I always hated the pathetic gun handling, and with some min-maxing i really managed to make beast out of a bat, but at the expense of the mobility aspects. This is definitely interesting to say the least, but I think it will widen the skill gap even further. Bad players will not skill their crews properly, and experienced good players will eat them now even easier than ever. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Shadivak said:

The crew grind is absolutely terrible. Playing without sixth sense is rage inducing. Getting clowned by people with 5 skill crews in tier 5-6, while you're trying to rank up the first skill, absolutely blows. I have no idea if this will help casuals/new players, and I'm sure WG will fuck it up. But, as a casual, who mostly sucks, I think some kind of change to crews was needed. The difference in effectiveness between a 1 skill crew, and a 3 skill crew, is pretty fucking enormous. And, let's be honest. Tank effectiveness at higher tiers, with 5 skill crews, is pretty absurd.

The only thing that will change is that 6th sense is free. The seal clubber with 6 skills snd 30,000 games in his T67 will still outclass your brand new crew in every way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel the effects of the new system as proposed would break the player base into 3 different groups:

Rough guesses on the percentages, but:

  1. The really new/really casual players (guess 10% of the player base?): Those who currently grind crews without 6th sense, those who play with 50%/75% crews when they get a new tank. These players would see a buff in that they get 6th sense for free and there are no more crews less than 100% major qualification.
  2. The really dedicated players (maybe 5% of the player base, probably less?): Those who currently have 5-skill crews on many of their tanks (fully grinded, 'zero-skill' crews don't count!). These players would see a buff in that they would immediately get Level 75 crews allowing them to get all necessary skills plus 2 talents. Also any skills they have over and above 5 turns into more major qualification.
  3. The vast majority of players (the rest, 85% of the player base?): Those who currently have between 1- and 4- skill crews on most of their tanks. These players get the shaft. Where their crews are perfectly passable in the current system (particularly so for heavy tanks), they either feel a bit worse in the new system, or or at best the same. This group of players doesn't see the advantages gained by group 2 above as their crews convert to somewhere from Level 18 to 70.

So WG has proposed a system that helps the 10% really need it (the new/casuals), the 5% who really don't need the help (the really dedicated) and shafts the other 85%. And on top of that, the conversion process is going to be a ridiculous exercise for just about everyone to get their crews set up.

The only good things about the proposed crew changes, in my opinion, are 6th sense for everyone, and no more crews with less than 100% major qualification.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically it looks like this is the plan:

KlozGKs.png

Right now it's brutal to start out (especially when we're talking 50% crews) but you gain ground rapidly. It peaks earlier, because a 2-3 skill crew is reasonably competitive for the most part. By the time you have 4 skills you hit diminishing returns because you probably have all you vitally need on most tanks.

2.0 flattens it all out into a more linear climb. You start out way better off (100% crew plus 6th sense) but gain much more gradually. And ultimately, while your crew is lamer in the middle zone than it used to be, it eventually becomes more powerful... but only with a metric ass-ton more grinding. It takes way longer to get to the end, but +20% to crew skills alone is redonk.

So, the good is that new players won't get shafted as hard, and the scaling of crews is much more even. The bad news is that they want to basically obsolete a bunch of your crews and extend the grind.

Extending the grind is what this is really all about. Veteran players all have solid crews in their tanks at this point, so there's weak incentive to furiously smash that lever like a conditioned muppet to get the next pellet. So they want to make the grind longer and ultimately more rewarding as reaching the end grants stupid bonuses to the entire crew.

So cool, purple nazi dork (and other assorted no-lifers) now rules the world, the whales get milked harder as they dump resources to pump up crews, every one else is pissed. LOOKIN GOOD, GUYZ

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, this sounds like total shit. Seeing as most of my crews are 2-3 skills, sounds like I'll get fucked hard. Thanks for the breakdowns.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Bobi_Kreeg said:

Same, same.

Perfect time to uninstall, if this goes to live server. 

 

To think I just came back after a couple years off, too.... They just keep fucking shit up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Went for a quick look at the RU forums to see what they are saying about it:

Screenshot_20210225-072751.jpg

 

They dont seem to like it for many of the same reasons as us, so far at least. 

 

Edit, link to that thread: http://forum.worldoftanks.ru/index.php?/topic/2127797-ваши-впечатления-от-экипажа-20/page__pid__54595832__st__20#entry54595832

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a summary of the changes (I'm lazy so the formatting is fucked). But really, it doesn't take a professor of anatomy to tell you that the changes are ass. Here's why:
 

1. Crews lose skills

Your old crews that had 3-4 skills will only have ~40ish skill points in the new system, which will lose you - 2-3 skills/perks in practice

2. Crews do not combine

If you were in the habit of grinding several crews to 3-4 skills instead of having 1-2 crews which you maxed out (which most people will be), you're shafted because crews do not combine and you're stuck with multiple (un-competitive) crews

  • this is unfair to the players because under the old system, there was very little incentive to go past the 3rd or 4th skills, whereas now you're massively penalised for it with no recompense whatsoever

  • if you think this is just sandbox and they might change it later, community contributors have said on the forums that they do not plan on introducing merging crews as a feature.

3. 0th skill crews have exactly 0 worth

If your crews are Christmas crews/0th skill BIA crews, the extra skill you have will not be counted in the new system - you lose 2-3 skills from that alone - not counting the fact you effectively lose 2-3 skills anyway for what are currently 3-4 skill crews

  • this massively shafts people who bought/ground out 0th skill crews with zero compensation

4. RNG-gated instructors

Speaking of 0th skill crews, special 0th skill crews will now become 'instructors' which give small bonuses to specific perks. you have a choice between 3 perks of one category for each instructor - and which 3 you get to choose from is pure RNG - no rerolls.

  • this locks bonuses behind a pay to progress, RNG-based mechanic where previously you just had to grind crews to progress.

  • which makes the game even more unfair as between the players that pay up and players that don't (or can't).

5. Massive endgame grind for even more inequality

They nerfed the commander bonus and introduced a new 'expertise' grind where for each level of progression you grind past the 75th point, you get a 'small' bonus to your vehicle handling. vehicle handling is the same thing as what BIA does now, and the maximum ('small') bonus you can get from expertise is 20%........on top of the 5% you already get from the renamed BIA and all the other bonuses you have through skills/equipment.

Previously, crews, once you were past 100% and had BIA, no matter how much you played with them, no matter where you got them, no matter how many crew books you bought and fed to them, were capped at the same level of performance - you won't get a faster reload, you won't get less aimtime.

For the mechanics of these changes, see: https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/lqlt46/crew_20_sandbox_general_feedback/goi4lif?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Now as for their effects....

The new system introduces an all new grind that gives you the equivalent of stacking an extra ~ 2.5 more bond vents on your tank

  • this not only adds a new grind, but increases the already gaping inequality between players

  • a new player with a fresh crew will lack the renamed BIA, he might lack equipment, he is likely not to be be running food, he certainly won't have the expertise bonus on his tank - and he will be facing veterans with crews that perform 40-50 percent better than what he has.

  • *this hypothetical player would have to grind the equivalent of 7 skills in the current system just to catch up.

  • the only bandage on this fresh bullet wound is the free sixth sense - which players in the current system could have got pretty easily by crew books in the first place - and which could be added without all this hullabaloo with the new system.

CW Implications:

  • some of the perks would be very strong in a competitive setting, which I admit isn't a bad thing necessarily.

  • for a decently competitive clan, crew 2.0 would mean basically mandating people to have the equivalent of 6-7 skill crews in order to perform on a 'level' playing field

  • and that's not counting stacking with bond/bounty equipment and access to reward tanks

There are also side issues with tanks with large crews seemingly being shortchanged but that's minor compared to the iceberg that we're headed towards.

Don't look a gold sink in the mouth!

  • one of the touted features of Crew 2.0 is that you can train 1 crew for up to 3 tanks, only that..

  • u/Kuratovsky has kindly pointed out to me that in Crew 2.0, training your crew for the 2nd and 3rd tanks, just like retraining crews under the current system, will result in a penalty.

  • unlike in the current system, the retraining penalty for the 2nd and 3rd tanks is 10% of the crew's total experience.

  • if your crew has, say, 13 million exp (~6 skill crew), you will lose 1.3 million crew exp from the F2P option - and this directly eats into your crew skills/expertise bonuses

  • currently, the penalty for retraining a crew to another tank is 10% of the major qualification, i.e. 10% of 100k exp. this does not affect the crew skills/perks.

  • if you want to avoid bleeding XP, the solution is simple: 750 gold, 750 gold for every tank other than the first tank, and for every new tank that you switch in.

  • the effect is that what appears to be one of the most F2P friendly features of Crew 2.0 is simultaneously the least F2P friendly part of the changes. this is because people who don't have gold will be forced to lose 10% of their total crew XP every time they retrain a crew to a different tank.

Concluding thoughts

For those of you who say that there's nothing to worry about and WG will surely revise the sandbox changes and make them good, I present to you the examples of:

For those of you who still remember, Rubicon failed in 2015 because the playerbase was not okay with cosmetics having an effect on gameplay. That they made heard. These changes with Crew 2.0 are of a much greater magnitude, are much less accessible, and in their current guise, it is safe to say that they will impact the game much more negatively.

The multitudinous changes to the system and the overhauls to the interface only serve to hide the fact that your crews will be worse, that as players we will suffer, that we will have to pay more, grind more, to get less in return.

There is no reason that the playerbase should allow these changes to happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

People not having best crew is no big deal imo, some will have 50, other 60 and others 75, as long as the best skills are not locked after say lvl 60, its fine.

Beiing forced to pick either view range OR camo is also fine same its nice you can put 1 crew in 2 tanks (if i saw it right)

People saying the difference between 2 and 4 skill is not massive also undersell it A LOT, having full camo, or no camo skill at all on a medium is a significatn difference, same for 1, 2 or no view range skills (2 skills is 20m, vent AND bia is also 20m...)

Whats gonna suck though is that people who have a few rly good crews they move around will be at a serious advantage compared to people who have a lot of crews (i got like 5 russian heavy crews with 3 skills and only 3 with 4 skills, GG)

Whats also gonna suk dik, is that you loose a lot of exp for retraining, compared to current situation...

If WG fixes the main thing (the 0 skill bia thing etc) keep retraining like it currently is, and doesnt lock powerfull skill behind high tier, it can see this work, but otherwise, howboy...

Ps: and an overall nerf is fine on tier 10, a flat 10% gun handling, 10% aim time and 10% view range nerf would be a big improvement, this crew change is doing that (most ppl probably got therse best crews on tier 10 and for most people thats 4 skills at most...)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

All of this is super depressing :( 

I am really upset about the shafting of zero skill crewmen, nearly all of my meaningful crews are made up from those. Shame on me, but I did specifically spend money on tanks that were sold with zero skill crews bundled - maybe if I am not alone in that, it might be sufficient leverage for the community to have the zero-skills counted somehow?

one last thought: for those willing to burn some (quite some, actually) gold, it might make sense to split up and move the old-style crews into two-person tanks before the change:

The shift from old to 2.0 should be done on a per-tank-basis (independent of crew size), so this way you could “duplicate” e.g. one 4-skill old crew into two 2.0 commanders 

or make five 2.0 commanders out of two five-man old crews, or make three 2.0 commanders out of two three-man old crews etc., you get the idea.

there should be at least one two-person tank in every tree for this, I think 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

People not having best crew is no big deal imo, some will have 50, other 60 and others 75, as long as the best skills are not locked after say lvl 60, its fine.

There aren't 75 levels, that's smoke and mirror bullshit. The crew keeps leveling past that, so there's effectively more like 83ish levels. Those last "non-levels" potentially grant +20% to crew skills in total. You get like +4% or something at your first couple of bumps past level 75, which seems suspiciously like the crown jewel they want people to grind furiously for. Maybe they'll change it, because it's pretty asinine.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So if this system stays, what's the best way to prep if I have a bunch of 2-3 skill crews spread across like 40 tanks?

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Shadivak said:

So if this system stays, what's the best way to prep if I have a bunch of 2-3 skill crews spread across like 40 tanks?

Find another game.

(yes, I'm salty as fuck about these changes.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, this hands down looks like the worst change to the game in years. As others have pointed out, it is bad on so many levels it is simply not funny. Yes, there will be some iterations, but again, WG recently has a habit of forcing stuff through despite negative feedback. Probably nothing short of a full-scale RU server revolt will stop it at this point in time.

So many bad decisions. They cannot possibly think that the majority of players have 5+ skill crews, it is so painfully obvious that the majority of players will have 3-4 skill crews, simply because going beyond that has massive diminishing returns and is basically unnecessary when playing randoms. The bonus to the additional grind levels beyond level 75 are simply too big, and will only exacerbate the current issue of veteran players dominating new players because the veteran players will start substantially closer to to those additional levels than newer players - plus they then get to use that dominating crew in 3 vehicles, instead of just 1! RNG on the 'instructors' (which was already a dumb idea to deal with the special crew members - they have been a successful mechanic in the game, why now remove those fancy voice-actor lines and special portraits from he crews entirely?)

The zero-skill and bonus BIA commanders getting nerfed is potentially the one area I can see them changing because of the paid aspect of many of these crews.

There are some aspects of what they are trying to do here that has merit, such as starting new players on better ground, and there are aspects of the WoWS model that I think could work okay in WoT, but as usual, the transition ideas here are just absolute trash.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have a 5 perk, 80ish percent crew in my Charioteer on the live server. They translated into a 63 point commander on the sandbox thanks to the 0 skill BIA from being female crew members. I then dumped 11 training manuals into them. They still are not maxed out. This system is trash, it is designed to punish people with a lot of crews and incentivize them to dump resources and money into a few crews. On top of that many of the new "perks" are really situational and pretty much not worth taking right out of the gate. Considering that every single skill and perk in the game right now is a passive buff to the tank that is always on, I am baffled by all of the situational, gimmicky, and flat out stupid skills in the new system. It really shows that the Wargaming development team doesn't play their own game at all. I am completely convinced now that the current development team at wargaming literally does not understand how the current crew system works and why crew skills are important in the current meta. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, echo9835 said:

So I have a 5 perk, 80ish percent crew in my Charioteer on the live server. They translated into a 63 point commander on the sandbox thanks to the 0 skill BIA from being female crew members. I then dumped 11 training manuals into them. They still are not maxed out. This system is trash, it is designed to punish people with a lot of crews and incentivize them to dump resources and money into a few crews. On top of that many of the new "perks" are really situational and pretty much not worth taking right out of the gate. Considering that every single skill and perk in the game right now is a passive buff to the tank that is always on, I am baffled by all of the situational, gimmicky, and flat out stupid skills in the new system. It really shows that the Wargaming development team doesn't play their own game at all. I am completely convinced now that the current development team at wargaming literally does not understand how the current crew system works and why crew skills are important in the current meta. 

my STB crew is at ~75% on their 6th skill (regular, no free BIA). I have 2519 games in my STB (not including CW, advances etc which would add a few more). This crew is also the crew I started the grind with from tier 1. I have around 3100 battles total on that crew. And well over 2000 of them have been played with accelerated training on. 

6 skills is a pretty overpowered crew in the current game. Im stuck grasping at straws and training firefighting on a couple members, so Ive got literally everything you'd want already on there. I havent downloaded the sanbox, though I might tonight, so I dont know what that translates to. 

The fact is, if you need to play 2500+ games WITH ONE CREW to get it to a decently competitive level, as many people are saying here (more without a prem account) thats fucking rediculous. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Neverwish
    Neverwish is creating WOTLABS

    97 patrons
    $88

  • Latest Articles

  • Topics

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Snoregasm2

      Credited with the Concept 1B tonight. Has anyone got theirs yet? Thoughts?
      EDIT: Nevermind - http://wotreplays.eu/site/5859757#karelia-snoregasm2-concept_1b 
      1 battle, 1 Ace tanker. Has insane armour, is fast as a medium, has no weakspots frontally from what I can tell, has insane gun handling. WTF WG?!
      · 2 replies
    • hall0

      The Panzer IV from the Girls und Panzer Anime seems to make it into the game.
      https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2021/04/19/update-1-12-1-🇩🇪-pz-kpfw-iv-ausf-h-ankou/

      Funnily enough. It is propably one of the most realistic premium tanks or tanks in general we got in a long time. Despide being from an Anime.
       
      · 2 replies
    • kolni

      Been struggling with tier 10 since coming back - jesus christ this is awful. If you don't play something OP you feel like a tier 9 in a tier 10 game. 
      Got an account with a 0 game FV215b that I marked (69 games, just barely 4k dpg lmao) - wound up running the equipment piece that prevents fires and the same directive after the same amount of fires as amount of games in a 10 game session (got lit 3 times in one game...) but after that I never got set on fire again. Totally worth putting those up and giving up vents so you can actually use the HP without a fuel tank fire. Been noticing that a lot of casemate TDs are running new equipment as well (7.5s was pretty much enough RLD to permatrack anything until it dies and it is not anymore. It's closer to 6, so I'm assuming it's the equipment since it also varies heavily.)
       
      907 yoloing with optics+directive is sort of working, I'm keeping 85 but getting good enough of a session without a derp to fall back down after climbing up is so rare with how common the absolutely worst maps are. I have played 8 times the amount of Erlenberg as I have Prokh (assault and encounter enabled), I also get a lot of Kharkov and Abbey that keep showing up too and these maps are just too poorly designed to get a good enough gameplan to fulfill the damage requirements. There's just no play that works well enough. 
       
      I tried tier 8 as well, and it's like a different game played on the same board. You get away with so much stupid shit because of gaps in view range and the overall skill level. It makes me feel like my mechanics are super clean as I can poke in to tanks pre aimed at me and fire, pull into safety/unpennable angle before they fire - but at tier 10 that is just wishful thinking. 
       
      Long way to go, I hate being this derpy in game quality which is what I'm going to work on but tier 10 is so ass..
      · 1 reply
    • GehakteMolen

      So, how many trees you cut down (WG send me some thing i could see funny stats)
      In total i fell 56811 trees and shot 21966 tracks and drowned 23 times
      (also mines my best map (i think?) which seems kinda right, in general i get good games there, hehe)
      · 0 replies
    • DrWeb7_1

      Starting with update 1.12.1, it's impossible to log in without Bullshit Center running in background. No reason to keep the game on the hard drive for me. Meh...

      · 1 reply
×
×
  • Create New...