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On 3/5/2021 at 10:34 PM, hazzgar said:

What you are saying is basically - keep the crew as it is. The crew system currently isn't bad. Very few tanks really benefit that much over a certain skill number. WG on one hand are super afraid of lights being too good and on the other have no idea they are doing a lot to buff lights. Hell the new equipment was a huge buff to lights if you know how to use commanders vision. 

All WG really had to do was make SS free and add a couple more new skills into the pool so you don't pick the same four skills all the time. The only reason Equipment 2.0 worked was because they didn't overhaul any of the (viable) old equipment and just built on the slot mechanic a little + added more options so it's not always rammer/verstab/optics

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1 hour ago, ZXrage said:

All WG really had to do was make SS free and add a couple more new skills into the pool so you don't pick the same four skills all the time. The only reason Equipment 2.0 worked was because they didn't overhaul any of the (viable) old equipment and just built on the slot mechanic a little + added more options so it's not always rammer/verstab/optics

100% this. Add some useful skills for Loaders and commanders (since often you get 0 skill commanders so they have 1 extra skill over the rest of the crew)

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And something for radio operators. Other than SA, none of the radio skills are relevant at mid to high tier.

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On 3/8/2021 at 4:34 PM, Panzergraf said:

And something for radio operators. Other than SA, none of the radio skills are relevant at mid to high tier.

Some vision skills should be radio operator skills really. That visible for 2 extra seconds thing could be it

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On 3/8/2021 at 3:12 PM, hazzgar said:

100% this. Add some useful skills for Loaders and commanders (since often you get 0 skill commanders so they have 1 extra skill over the rest of the crew)

imo commander alrdy has enough, bia, repair, camo, 6e sense, view range, sometimes the radio skill with view range, and mentor (10% more crew skill) and the skill it can replace other crew are also not bad, radio man and loader are the ones getting shafted

ps: and stuff like dead eye and designated target are kinda useless due to it beiing perks, i train that as 4e, then u never reach it, making it useless

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14 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

imo commander alrdy has enough, bia, repair, camo, 6e sense, view range, sometimes the radio skill with view range, and mentor (10% more crew skill) and the skill it can replace other crew are also not bad, radio man and loader are the ones getting shafted

ps: and stuff like dead eye and designated target are kinda useless due to it beiing perks, i train that as 4e, then u never reach it, making it useless

Sorry that is my brainfart. I wanted to say radio operators. No idea why I said commanders. I think i was thinking radio operators and loaders. Take some of the commander skills to them so you don't train them as 5th skill so they actually become useful

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there's plenty of skills that could be good and that already align with the mechanics of the game

radio/loaders need more skills simply because of the fact that people start having 7-8 skill crews by now and there are skills here that are close to useless

the problem with adding too many viable skills is that you increase the gap further between a good crew and a bad one, right now the difference between a 0 skill and 2 skill crew is bigger than 2 skills -> 8 skills and that is a good thing, adding more of them means that this gap gets even bigger and as a result makes 2-3 skill crews almost unplayable in terms of being competitive, which they aren't now. (4 skills is the gold standard imo but you can easily get by with 3 on any given tank)

the only good way to solve this is to cap crews so you're forced to choose between them, 6 skills is probably the fairest realistic cap without people going crazy - it's the point where skills stop being useful anyway and if you add more of them then people will have to choose between ex. vision stacking their meds (opening up an equipment slot as optics aren't needed anymore) or build their skills differently in favour of the possible new skills

 

i want a camo piercing skill for radio operators that doesn't increase view range but works in the same radius as designated target, possible add on is an increase in effectiveness against targets firing

improved auto aim - i would never skill this in my life but for the mass it could be a huge crew skill that basically means giving up a crew skill for some mechanical assistance (fair trade off imo), basically autoaim+ but you need to be aiming in the general direction for it to lock onto it (gunner)

last stand - lets you fire a shot up to 0,5s after your tank runs out of HP (delaying tank explosion by 0,5s, also won't work when getting ammoracked) - this skill could be game breaking as you'd always have to treat oneshot pokes as they could fire back unless you make some sort of indicator (loader)

reverse speed crew skill - basically a throwaway skill on many tanks but on some it can really matter, best way to make good use of it is probably having it have a bigger impact right away and make it fade than a constant % increase in reverse speed, the skill as a whole would be much more useful having a 20% increase during the first second of reversal and fading down to 5% over 5 seconds (can't be picked by wheelies), this sounds like a lot but reverse speeds are typically very low so a 20% increase is basically never more than 5kph - balancing it further it could have a CD if it's too op (driver)

BiA 2 - unlocked after BiA is completed on entire crew, works the exact same but it's only a 2.5% increase (general skill)

Increasing proxy range could be an interesting skill but I think it'll just result in 55m hugging and spot checking with sixth to permalight shit that can't light you back and have arty wittle it away 

 

there's also the option of activatable skills but there aren't great keybinds for it if you don't have mouse buttons to bind it to, but here you can go crazy in the amount of options of potential skills possible but they really complicate the game

 

 

 

 

 

 

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BIA 2 could maybe instead work like Old Guard or whatever they called it in crew 2.0, where it adds to survivability rather than crew skill.
Maybe reduce stun duration and increase module HP or something, but not drastically so.

And you can pick it instead of or in addition to BIA - could be nice for heavy tanks.

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On 3/13/2021 at 7:30 PM, kolni said:

the only good way to solve this is to cap crews so you're forced to choose between them, 6 skills is probably the fairest realistic cap without people going crazy - it's the point where skills stop being useful anyway and if you add more of them then people will have to choose between ex. vision stacking their meds (opening up an equipment slot as optics aren't needed anymore) or build their skills differently in favour of the possible new skills

Another idea I've heard before is rather than cap the number of skills, reduce the effectiveness for subsequent ones. For instance, something like skills 1-3 operate at 100%. Skill 4 85% skill 5 72% (example numbers), and so on, so that while you can always gain more skills, subsequent ones are less effectiveness. In this case a 4th skill BOA would grant a 4.25% bonus to crew. Tie this in with reworking bad perks and skills, adding a few more to some crew members, and lessening the exponential experience cost of subsequent skills.

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11 hours ago, Ogopogo said:

Another idea I've heard before is rather than cap the number of skills, reduce the effectiveness for subsequent ones. For instance, something like skills 1-3 operate at 100%. Skill 4 85% skill 5 72% (example numbers), and so on, so that while you can always gain more skills, subsequent ones are less effectiveness. In this case a 4th skill BOA would grant a 4.25% bonus to crew. Tie this in with reworking bad perks and skills, adding a few more to some crew members, and lessening the exponential experience cost of subsequent skills.

This still will be a problem. Especially for lights. If you know there is an enemy light before you in a bush line (ie. Prok) basically the one who gets spotted first dies.  So even a tiny difference means a lot

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I don't even care at this point. Go nuts Wargaming.

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We are cursed to get this shitty crew 2.0.

It is the same shit like last time, but with some minor improvements here and there. Sure it is better than last time. But even after you add parfume to a pile of shit, it still stays a pile of shit. 

Bonus level after max level are still there. With less bonuses but still with bonuses. But WG sells it, like they have fixed the issue. All they have done is lower the bad impact this extra bonuses will have. And if you can still level them up by using free XP they have created a nice way of pay to win. Convert your XP to free XP with gold. Profit. They should have stayed with the crewbooks. This way anyone could level it without spending real money. 

Instructor system still in place. Bonuses aren't random any more. But still there. This system alone makes it confusing. Do I need now all my CW tanks with certain instructors to remain competitive? 

New max level. 80 instead of 75. And you will get your old skills transfered to the new system. You can have the same crew as you do have now. What they did not mention are the ultimate skills. They are still there. And who cares about your old skills when you are pretty much forced to get your ultimate unlocked. 

Crew retraining without gold is still horrible. You can still lose hundreds of thousand XP. With all the crew books and stuff, people seem to forget how huge this loss of crew XP can be. Unlike now where you can grind your 90% crew back to 100 within an hour you will lose weeks of grinding. This alone should enrage every free to play player there is.

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27 minutes ago, hall0 said:

We are cursed to get this shitty crew 2.0.

It is the same shit like last time, but with some minor improvements here and there. Sure it is better than last time. But even after you add parfume to a pile of shit, it still stays a pile of shit. 

Bonus level after max level are still there. With less bonuses but still with bonuses. But WG sells it, like they have fixed the issue. All they have done is lower the bad impact this extra bonuses will have. And if you can still level them up by using free XP they have created a nice way of pay to win. Convert your XP to free XP with gold. Profit. They should have stayed with the crewbooks. This way anyone could level it without spending real money. 

Instructor system still in place. Bonuses aren't random any more. But still there. This system alone makes it confusing. Do I need now all my CW tanks with certain instructors to remain competitive? 

New max level. 80 instead of 75. And you will get your old skills transfered to the new system. You can have the same crew as you do have now. What they did not mention are the ultimate skills. They are still there. And who cares about your old skills when you are pretty much forced to get your ultimate unlocked. 

Crew retraining without gold is still horrible. You can still lose hundreds of thousand XP. With all the crew books and stuff, people seem to forget how huge this loss of crew XP can be. Unlike now where you can grind your 90% crew back to 100 within an hour you will lose weeks of grinding. This alone should enrage every free to play player there is.

Not even free to play. I'm a paying player (probably bought 20t8 prems, constant prem account) but I dont spend gold on every crew retraining. If this goes through expect me to be gone

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19 hours ago, hazzgar said:

Not even free to play. I'm a paying player (probably bought 20t8 prems, constant prem account) but I dont spend gold on every crew retraining. If this goes through expect me to be gone

The retraining (from tank to tank) is the main shitty thing, if they remove that, then its mostly fixed (still dont see the need, but not totally ridiculous as in the beginning)

Right now retraining crew from 1 tank to another costs almost no exp (if u do for silver) so is more or less free, with this change, its like reseting the crews skills, why WG, why????

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After the changes it seems like a decent new system with a cynical resource inflation scam tacked on instead of a massive tire fire billowing toxic smoke. Yay for progress, I guess.

  • If the sandbox info is correct, your extra crews will all get converted into crew XP books after a certain amount of time. So if you have a lot of crews you're no longer screwed. Not sure what the math is, of course.
  • The reset costs are still massively inflated. 500,000 credits to train a crew to a new vehicle compared to 20,000 X 5 = 100,000 being typical now. It'll still cost you a million credits per crew to get them back to normal. If you have 300ish crews it will legit take you 100,000,000 credits to re-crew everything. Not even joking. The good news is that those crews will be a lot more skilled than your old crews on average once you use those crew XP books.
  • If gold is no object and you actually drop 150,000 gold retraining those same 300 crews you can potentially really get ahead of the curve. I do not see this as a good thing.
  • End game bonus is "only" 15% to the crew instead of 20% now. Ffs.
  • So many mobility boosting skills, holy crap. I haven't tested it much but just looking at the numbers... is this a good idea? If you commit to it, heavies will move like meds, meds like lights, lights like wheelies. Game may get (even more) stupid.
  • Skill choices are definitely better, more interesting, and the entire system is more coherent from a balance standpoint... except for the endcap crew bonus which may be the truly awful pay to win garbage buried within the entire thing.
  • Finally standardizes 6th Sense, also adds new arty detection skill.
  • View ranges will drop overall, since you're less forced to pick the same few skills. I think this will actually be a good thing and reduce the "get lit instantly" effect at high tier.

All still seems convoluted, still looks like another shift to pay to win, still seems motivated by a desire to drain every one's massive credit and gold reserves. But at least it won't utterly break everything like the first round.

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I know a lot of people here don't like QB, but his recent video on Crew 2.0 shows just how broken the game will become for players that either pay to get their crews to level 80 and have instructors, or simply have ground only one or two crews and can get there straight away - so at about 9.45 min into the video, he shows that he is able to get his EBR 105 up to 68.9% camo and over 500m view range with some of the new talents, meaning that effectively he can drive around completely in the open at about 150 meters from enemy tanks, and as long as he doesn't fire, or fires carefully, cannot be spotted.

I mean, with Crab's stealth build you can already see how much funky stuff you can do once you break the 40% camo threshold, trying to deal with lights that have nearly 70% camo is just going to be ridiculous. He generally points out some very good issues with Crew 2.0 - yes, there are some good ideas in there, but there is just too much absolutely stupid stuff as well. Too many 'extreme effect' skills which can absolutely break how certain tanks will play and their balance in the overall game, but which only the most pay-to-win or bots will be able to access because of the absolutely mind-melting grind requirements. It's bonkers.

 

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At least he came up with pretty much the same conclusion as I did. And he didn´t even mention the huge XP lose you will get when retraining your crew without gold.

Maybe some of the reddit tards defending this system wake up now. I was shocked to see this shitshow of a subreddit defending this system in multiple threads. But most of all I hope the russian community starts a riot about this. As we all know the RU cluster is the only community WG actually cares about. 

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what will they do with:

  • Untrained crew members (i have like 12 guys in barracks from 260 / 279 / christma / whatever
  • Current crew books (i dont even wanna know how many i have, 200?
  • All the spare crews, i assums u can still put 1 crew in 2 tanks? (means i have 100 spare crews, nice...)

If all the spare crews get converted to books, i will have quite some crew books, despite using them once in a while and i have like 80 tier 8-9-10 tanks, all with 3 skills or more (not counting prems here) if i can truly drop half those crews for books and put that exp in the other noobs, same i have 700 crew boosters left (264 for 200% 1 hour for example) this is just gonna be unfair...

And unlike most peasants i can also trow 50 million credits if needed, im now grinding too 200 milion (because 200 is a better number as 100) but if a few million credits will give me an real advantage?

ps: this is also gonna make sealclubbing easier, the equipment thing made it harder, this is gonna make it way more unfair as before....

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1900 dollars to min/max a single crew that can play in up to 3 tanks. What a deal. I could build a gaming PC and buy a years worth of games off that budget. Or pay multiple months rent. or buy food for 6 months. 🤣 

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12 hours ago, hall0 said:

At least he came up with pretty much the same conclusion as I did. And he didn´t even mention the huge XP lose you will get when retraining your crew without gold.

Maybe some of the reddit tards defending this system wake up now. I was shocked to see this shitshow of a subreddit defending this system in multiple threads. But most of all I hope the russian community starts a riot about this. As we all know the RU cluster is the only community WG actually cares about. 

RU cluster is basically heavies FTW, meds and lights are OP so if they realize how broken can lights get with this they should be up in arms

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OK. Even more testing done. Therefore some "new" thoughts. 

I still think Crew 2.0 is terrible. And I don't even mean those potential OP builds that are already on YouTube, be it QB or Skill. WG can still balance those. At least other game developers can do that. With WG I'm not so sure after all these years. ^^ Here, OP or useless things usually stay online for at least a year. :p
Unfortunately, I don't expect the community to be spared from Crew 2.0 now. 

But let's go through the news. To have some concept. 


When converting crews, the XP of zero perks will be taken into account.
[...] As a result, you'll receive an Instructor and crew that are equal in combat performance to their current counterparts.
Equal in combat performance. Well, yes and no. I assume that the skills are transferred correctly. But this does not mean that the crew is equal in combat performance. 
Crew 2.0 changes the meta. Before a 3-4 skill crew was good. After the conversion, you end up with about 50-55 points. 50 out of 80 points doesn't really feel good. In addition, you want to distribute the points now so that you can use the Ultimate Skills.
So the new game rules decrease the perceived performance and also the real one, because there are now much more important things. Before, there were nice to have things. Not important, but nice to have. Now come the Ultimate Skills.  They will be a must have. If you don't have them, you're left behind. 

 

When a crew reaches Level 80 (maximum) of the Main Progression, it can't be further trained using Crew Books.
WG sold that as a big advantage, especially in the video. The only bad thing is that you forgot to point out that you can still push it with FreeXP. Well, and what's the easiest way to get FreeXP in the game? Gold. And how do you get gold? With real money. 
WG has added a nice, absurdly expensive PaytoWin feature. It's a shame to sell it as an advantage. 

The maximum bonus to vehicle handling from the Elite Progression has been reduced from 21% to 15%.
Hey, hey. Less levels to buy. What an advantage.
The only problem with all this is. When you have a pile of poop and you take something away. it still remains a pile of poop. 
These prestige levels make for absolutely ridiculous boni and advantages. I understand not wanting to piss off players like me who have 7 skill crews. But please not like this. Stop at 80. Give the possibility to farm bonds with the crew after that. And/or bonuses like extra credits, FreeXp. 
And as compensation for levels over 80. Give me bonds. 

 

The Instructor concept has been improved upon.
[...] you'll be able to select a certification and nation (if it isn't predetermined), as well as skills of the selected Training Course. You can change your selection as many times as you like until you click Apply.
It's good that the bonuses are not just randomly rolled. But I don't have a chance to change the instructor after clicking Apply. Neither nation nor skills. OK. Changing a nation is currently not possible either. But you can change the skills. What if the meta changes because skills are rebalanced? In WoWs this happens quite often. Even in WoT there was that. Last example Intuition. From a useless skill to a really good choice. Or Jack of all Trades. Before you had the reusable repairkits or healthkits, it was a good pick. Since then, the skill has completely disappeared. 

There is a possibility that your instructor with perfect skills could become useless in the future.  Without any chance at all to fix it 

The whole instructor concept is also more than bad. I thought the whole concept of 80 levels is that you stop after 80 levels and everyone actually has a limit. Now, in addition to the prestige levels, they are adding instructors that can reinforce skills that have already been trained. Or you can train unselected skills. Therefore to the 80 lvl you can have, you can put up to 10 levels on top. 
Of course, the thing is again very much like paytowin. It is probably only a matter of time until such instructors are sold for money. 

Remove this System all together.

 

Crew Conversion: Taking the Changes Into Account
When converting crews, the XP of zero perks will be taken into account.
If you already have a trained crew. Yes. But the advantage of the zero perk crews was that you had a good crew very quickly. (about 3 skills are enough at the moment).
Now this bonus is completely gone. And no, the 10% faster training per instructor does not count. You can only use them from level 20, 35, 50 and 65. So I have to grind a 4-5 skill crew without zero perk. Have fun. 

I have dozens of currently unused zero perk crews sitting on my account. Be it through the 260 or 279 missions or CW, Twitch, events. Cause I waited for new interessting lines i am screwed now. 

With zero Perk crews WG is handing out like candy and Crewbooks everyone was able to get competitive 3 skill crews in notime. And now WG removes this completely. 

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After some thinking about it... Why do we even have to grind crew skills?

We already grind:

  1. credits
  2. gold
  3. tank exp.
  4. free exp.
  5. blueprints
  6. bonds
  7. tokens
  8. battle points

And top of all, we pay to have equipment demounted and crews transferred, retrained and skills reset every time we move them.

Enough is enough!

I want skills and crews to be free and available to everyone from start.

 

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Ive just seen QBs video on this, didnt even know it was out until today.

 

Its beyond a joke. They havent changed any of the fundamental problems that I had with it whatsoever, they've just removed a bit of RNG from it but in the process made it even more pay2win, based on his video.

 

The entire system as a concept needs to be completely scrapped. If it goes into the game with it even close to this, I see no reason to bother playing it again. 

 

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