Returning 322 player experience after 8 years

[OniichanSenpai 17]

Hi guys,

I'm an ex clan member of 322 from the EU server, returning after 8 years of absence. I was playing WoT in the ESL back then (that doesnt exist any more) and did FC in company battles a lot of times.

I played a lot back in my college time but stopped after I got a gf and job. I didn't touch the game until last year when lockdown basically forced me to find some productive things to do at home.

My old account is still existing (https://wotlabs.net/eu/player/givethemnothing), but after 8 years I forgot the credentials to the connected mail address... welp. Nothing of value was lost as i was a poorfag back then and the account was f2p. Before that, I was playing on my brothers account so actually I started playing around 2011.

So how was my experience with WoT 2020+?

It was kind of a rough landing at first because the meta was drastically different from 2013 and I forgot some of the skills I had. I got beaten in the face countless times in my shiny Tier 8 premiums until I decided to grind my way up like I used to before to learn the meta again from scratch. So eventually, I got back on track. 

So here are a few things I noticed and I will also state if its neutral (+/-) a pro (+, ++, +++) or a con (-, --, ---):

• +/- I did realize that there are now much more players. I can still remember some ppl saying in 2013 that WoT was about to go down since player base was eroding... yeah that never happened.
• ++ Clans are dead. I mean It was fun back then with Xensation and Hami and all the other retards on EU server, but it seems that nowadays clans are pretty useless except for getting CW reward tanks. Thats fine for me as WoT never was and never will be a competitive game. I was in 322 back then as the clan recruiter but im not sure if its still active
• +++ There is less Pay2win now. I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but back then you had to buy gold to shoot gold ammo and use food. Now you can get that all for credts which is a massive change. Plus the game literally throws free (not always good) premium tanks at you with the marathons and reward vehicles
• -- This also means that waaay more gold ammo is in the air. I remember back then that there would be near impenetrable tanks like Type 59 which are just shit now because every T8 med has 250+ pen ammo available
• - The removal of global chat is a pity. Not being able to flame kind of takes a lot of the fun but I understand the reasoning behind it
• ++ Frontlines is nice. I do enjoy some of the new game modes, especially those who can be done solo!
• ++ Usablity got MUCH better. The minimap features now and the damage indicators are a huge asset. You don't need any mods in the current game apart from Gumark mod maybe
• +++ Efficiency Rating/WN7/8 is dead because we have Gunmarks. This is huge. Back then there was a lot of statsfapping and especially with the Efficiency Rating it got completely absurd (you could push it by capping instead of dealing dmg). I never used XVM but even then it annoyed me that there was no ingame way of tracking how good with a certain tank you are apart from manually tracking DPG and assist (which, back then, did not exist as a stat! so only dmg). Now with Gunmarks around, there is a real "endgame" in the way that you can mark all kind of tanks and it truly has a meaning instead of account wide ratings.
• +++ You can anonymize yourself. Jesus that one is probably the best thing... 
• - Maps are still as unbalanced as before. I did not expect anything else tbh

And now?

I am used to playing alone but I do enjoy playing with some ppl. Back in the day we used to have a chat channel in game for players who like to improve their game play and there anyone could find good platoon mates, I really like the idea of doing that again. If you want to platoon, just add me in game, it is especially useful for team based modes like FL or SH I think, where the "lonue unicum" approach is not as valid as in randoms.

Respect if you made it through this wall of text and see you guys in game and in forum

[Snoregasm2 635]

31 minutes ago, OniichanSenpai said:

• +/- I did realize that there are now much more players. I can still remember some ppl saying in 2013 that WoT was about to go down since player base was eroding... yeah that never happened. 

This annoys me how this has been something people have said since pretty much I started playing early 2013. I guess it's kind of come true on NA, but on EU there's still plenty of people playing, including new players (bots at lower tiers scares me though).

How have you adapted to playing tier 10 again?

Do you like that the main yardstick to measure success has moved from W/R to DPG / marks?

I remember back in 2013 to say 2016 or so that the DPGs people pull nowawdays were just pipe dreams, and anyone chasing DPG / WN8 / stats generally were frowned upon (especially here) as people who just couldn't maintain a high W/R. I've always subscribed to W/R being a shit metric in WOT, given the ease of gaming it (3 man toons, back in 2012/13 tank companies, playing lower tiers etc.) and the fact that solo-pubbing in non-meta tanks is literally a dice roll you can only influence a little. It is also a pointless distinction as doing lots of dmg naturally helps boost W/R anyway

[OniichanSenpai 17]

6 minutes ago, Snoregasm2 said:

This annoys me how this has been something people have said since pretty much I started playing early 2013. I guess it's kind of come true on NA, but on EU there's still plenty of people playing, including new players (bots at lower tiers scares me though).

How have you adapted to playing tier 10 again?

Do you like that the main yardstick to measure success has moved from W/R to DPG / marks?

I remember back in 2013 to say 2016 or so that the DPGs people pull nowawdays were just pipe dreams, and anyone chasing DPG / WN8 / stats generally were frowned upon (especially here) as people who just couldn't maintain a high W/R. I've always subscribed to W/R being a shit metric in WOT, given the ease of gaming it (3 man toons, back in 2012/13 tank companies, playing lower tiers etc.) and the fact that solo-pubbing in non-meta tanks is literally a dice roll you can only influence a little. It is also a pointless distinction as doing lots of dmg naturally helps boost W/R anyway

I am grinding my way up the trees slowly because I three mark every tank I own, so haven't yet really started with Tier X - also since the gameplay in TX especially is really boring as compared to T8. The thing is that Tier X always was a campfest but nowadays due to the omnipresence of EBR, gold ammo and yet more autoloaders, the burst potential is so absurd that everyone is just waiting for the other one to make one mistake. Another thing ofc is the question, why play TX? I am going to eventually play them to three mark all, but they aren't really much more fun than T8 or 9 and you definitely make less credits (which ofc matters when you are still grinding). 

I do think T9 is very comfy tho, and with most T9 guns being actually TX, it could be my new favourite tier.

I think Win Ratio is to some extent important but if we are all honest, you can have a great match and still lose. As I got older, I much less care if I win or lose. I set goals for myself and having something you can actually influence 90% like gun marks is better than something you can only marginally influence. In the end, it's a game and you should have fun I mean. Too many people fall for the unicum meme and fail to realize that stats won't bring you any joy by itself.

 

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

Siema pozz moin!

I guess Corona also played in a roll in ur return ^^

I myself started playing daily last year again, and agree with most of what you wrote, you only missed the: mega camp, part, because its even more campy as before (and once it start to snowball left or right, it goes fast due to all the high pen, no armour, autoloader tanks

For 322, ofc we live, whats not alive cant die! Body got himself banned hue hue, some ppl quit, others still play, some left clan, other joined back, but all in all 322 outlived almost every other clan (i mean PTS was our subclan, PTS, the try hard gold farmers and former #1 & our bitter enemy since day 1)

[OniichanSenpai 17]

2 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

Siema pozz moin!

I guess Corona also played in a roll in ur return ^^

I myself started playing daily last year again, and agree with most of what you wrote, you only missed the: mega camp, part, because its even more campy as before (and once it start to snowball left or right, it goes fast due to all the high pen, no armour, autoloader tanks

For 322, ofc we live, whats not alive cant die! Body got himself banned hue hue, some ppl quit, others still play, some left clan, other joined back, but all in all 322 outlived almost every other clan (i mean PTS was our subclan, PTS, the try hard gold farmers and former #1 & our bitter enemy since day 1)

Witam mate! Nice to see 322 is still up and running. Me and Loofah back then switched to Warthunder GF and slammed the pubbies there.  I already saw Panzerfighter is also still active, he uploads replays all the time. I will check on him later and see if I can come back anytime.

Oh another thing that got worse is the server lags, probably due to the high numbers, today I had a few rounds where the game literally froze (internet otherwise was okay, just WoT)

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

1 minute ago, OniichanSenpai said:

Witam mate! Nice to see 322 is still up and running. Me and Loofah back then switched to Warthunder GF and slammed the pubbies there.  I already saw Panzerfighter is also still active, he uploads replays all the time. I will check on him later and see if I can come back anytime.

Oh another thing that got worse is the server lags, probably due to the high numbers, today I had a few rounds where the game literally froze (internet otherwise was okay, just WoT)

Loofah, thats a name i havent heard in years

Yeah, Panzer is now commander, we got quite some guys who were in 322 already in 2012 / 2013

[PityFool 7,731]

16 hours ago, OniichanSenpai said:

• - Maps are still as unbalanced as before. I did not expect anything else tbh

I agreed fully with everything you said.. but I honestly think the maps are worse than before. Almost all the re-worked maps are significantly worse than their previous versions. Fishermans bay is my favourite example, the old version was one of my favorite maps, now its a complete shitshow of one-sided bushes and no arty cover. 

I returned to the game christmas 2019, not expecting to play much, I had quit the game completely since 2015. But I've played about 6k battles since returning, my honest opinion is that in an overall comparison, the game is better today than it was back in the glory days.

[arthurwellsley 131]

"And now?

I am used to playing alone but I do enjoy playing with some ppl. Back in the day we used to have a chat channel in game for players who like to improve their game play and there anyone could find good platoon mates, I really like the idea of doing that again. If you want to platoon, just add me in game, it is especially useful for team based modes like FL or SH I think, where the "lonue unicum" approach is not as valid as in randoms."

 

The channels that used to work such as "Stronk plutons" etc seem to have died.

The one that always still works is "forumites" on password "play4fun".

Otherwise a great deal of platooning now tends to occur on EU via Discord channels.

[OniichanSenpai 17]

On 5/11/2021 at 10:08 PM, GehakteMolen said:

Loofah, thats a name i havent heard in years

Yeah, Panzer is now commander, we got quite some guys who were in 322 already in 2012 / 2013

The irony is while many formerly famous clans like PTS, EFE, KAZNA, all more or less went down as the competitive part of WoT dwindled, 322 which never even claimed to be a clan still exists. We kind of anticipated the trend that in the end, randoms are what makes WoT a good game and not the clan circlejerking.

On 5/12/2021 at 7:10 AM, PityFool said:

I agreed fully with everything you said.. but I honestly think the maps are worse than before. Almost all the re-worked maps are significantly worse than their previous versions. Fishermans bay is my favourite example, the old version was one of my favorite maps, now its a complete shitshow of one-sided bushes and no arty cover. 

I returned to the game christmas 2019, not expecting to play much, I had quit the game completely since 2015. But I've played about 6k battles since returning, my honest opinion is that in an overall comparison, the game is better today than it was back in the glory days.

Yeah all in all I have the feeling the game is now more well rounded even tho it has become so much faster. Back in the days I used to play TD a lot, that whole class got much worse while lights and meds are much more meta now. That's okay for me tho, adaptation is key to success.

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

5 hours ago, OniichanSenpai said:

The irony is while many formerly famous clans like PTS, EFE, KAZNA, all more or less went down as the competitive part of WoT dwindled, 322 which never even claimed to be a clan still exists. We kind of anticipated the trend that in the end, randoms are what makes WoT a good game and not the clan circlejerking.

Yeah, i found it quite funny to see that like every single big clan (from 2011 /12/13) died or went into coma, except for FAME and 322 (and fame was made quite a bit later, so doesnt rly count)

Wot is about randoms, trash talking in chat and winning. Sadly winning is due to reasons no longer the main goal and chat got turned off (a real shame) so all thats is left is randoms, but thats fine, driving around random tanks while cursing at RNG / arty / crap teams is the core of wot anyway

As for clans, our lack of organization was both our weakness and strength,

• If you have no ts, ppl wont quit over time because nobody is anymore on ts,
• If there is no website, you dont need anyone to manage it (and your website also cant die due to lack of content)
• If there are no clan events in the first place, you also cant miss it!

Only reason FAME might outlive 322 is because its suchs a big name, the best players will always wanna play for fame, as long as leadership stays active they will do fine, but will that be the case? I myself will stay in 322 till the day WG turns off the servers, so im quite sure 322 will outlive many more clans!

[OniichanSenpai 17]

54 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

Yeah, i found it quite funny to see that like every single big clan (from 2011 /12/13) died or went into coma, except for FAME and 322 (and fame was made quite a bit later, so doesnt rly count)

Wot is about randoms, trash talking in chat and winning. Sadly winning is due to reasons no longer the main goal and chat got turned off (a real shame) so all thats is left is randoms, but thats fine, driving around random tanks while cursing at RNG / arty / crap teams is the core of wot anyway

As for clans, our lack of organization was both our weakness and strength,

• If you have no ts, ppl wont quit over time because nobody is anymore on ts,
• If there is no website, you dont need anyone to manage it (and your website also cant die due to lack of content)
• If there are no clan events in the first place, you also cant miss it!

Only reason FAME might outlive 322 is because its suchs a big name, the best players will always wanna play for fame, as long as leadership stays active they will do fine, but will that be the case? I myself will stay in 322 till the day WG turns off the servers, so im quite sure 322 will outlive many more clans!

Yeah my biggest issue with clans like FAME is that they are tryharding.

I can get that in competitive games, there is a pressure to perform because there is money involved or at least fame.

With WoT, this is not the case. You don't get anything, no money, and only limited "fame" within the forumites. In randoms, you will be anonymous anyway.

The most recognition you can ever get is if someone compliments you after the battle or on your replays.

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

1 hour ago, OniichanSenpai said:

Yeah my biggest issue with clans like FAME is that they are tryharding.

I can get that in competitive games, there is a pressure to perform because there is money involved or at least fame.

With WoT, this is not the case. You don't get anything, no money, and only limited "fame" within the forumites. In randoms, you will be anonymous anyway.

The most recognition you can ever get is if someone compliments you after the battle or on your replays.

you mean like this?

Altermann_48_1 (23:02:50) Feiges Arschloch

For me wot has always been like watching tv, im not watching tv to win, im just watching 4fun, and just like im raging at the tv ill also rage at the 29 fuckers who sabotage my game, but in the end, i dont care. Right now i have a lot of things to play in wot and due to corona and still many crap beiing closed also plenty of time, so why not drive around shooting up polish kiddo`s and german grandpa`s

ps: When i became commander, i changed 322 slogan to: Sisi kucheza kwa furaha! for a reason, hehe (and it has been the same for i guess like 7 years)

 

[OniichanSenpai 17]

49 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

you mean like this?

Altermann_48_1 (23:02:50) Feiges Arschloch

For me wot has always been like watching tv, im not watching tv to win, im just watching 4fun, and just like im raging at the tv ill also rage at the 29 fuckers who sabotage my game, but in the end, i dont care. Right now i have a lot of things to play in wot and due to corona and still many crap beiing closed also plenty of time, so why not drive around shooting up polish kiddo`s and german grandpa`s

ps: When i became commander, i changed 322 slogan to: Sisi kucheza kwa furaha! for a reason, hehe (and it has been the same for i guess like 7 years)

 

ANY form of feedback is always a compliment because it means people appreciate your play enough to spend some time to write you.

So I'm unironically happy for any kind of compliment and/or insult. I do have a thick skin when it comes to flaming and I have been chatbanned 80% of the time.

Jesus, I had a shortcut linked to my clipboard manager just to spam "l2p noob" with a click to save time

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

Another thing that imo really changed, is that russian tanks no longer fit meta so well.

-5 when almost everyone has -8 or better is a real disadvantage, and due to gun handling and penetration buffs, their armour is also no longer that good (T10 for example relied on rng, if the other guy can hit where he aims, your armour is almost useless) while russian gun handling is now becoming a problem by itself (the long aim time mostly) again, when everyone can aim quick, except for you, your having a problem.

I played 257, 705 and grinded the double barrel shotgun tanks, but none of them impressed me (infact, i outright hated both 257 and 705) it seems those kind of tanks no longer work (as well)

[OniichanSenpai 17]

16 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Another thing that imo really changed, is that russian tanks no longer fit meta so well.

-5 when almost everyone has -8 or better is a real disadvantage, and due to gun handling and penetration buffs, their armour is also no longer that good (T10 for example relied on rng, if the other guy can hit where he aims, your armour is almost useless) while russian gun handling is now becoming a problem by itself (the long aim time mostly) again, when everyone can aim quick, except for you, your having a problem.

I played 257, 705 and grinded the double barrel shotgun tanks, but none of them impressed me (infact, i outright hated both 257 and 705) it seems those kind of tanks no longer work (as well)

I agree, I got myself a 430U early to try Ranked but boy do I dislike the tank. Panzer loves it but the armor aspect is just becoming less of an asset and the bad gun handling and speed are drawing most russian tanks down. For average players, they are great I guess.

The thing is, WG introduced more popular bouncy tanks (Conq, SConq, Chieftain, 279e, Defender, 430, 430U) and free gold ammo. This creates a selective pressure on new tanks to have better gun stats and/or higher pen so you can still fight. The result are things like the Object 274a with 280 APCR on tier 8 and massive HE Spam with tanks like FV or even 60TP.

This was especially true for premium tanks because those don't sell unless the gun is capable, thus leading to power creep.

For example, I did love playing T69 back then which was completely playable with 175 pen and one of the early autoloaders. Nowadays, this tank is complete and utter garbage compared to monsters like Progetto or Bourrasque.

[Snoregasm2 635]

On 5/13/2021 at 9:29 AM, OniichanSenpai said:

The irony is while many formerly famous clans like PTS, EFE, KAZNA, all more or less went down as the competitive part of WoT dwindled, 322 which never even claimed to be a clan still exists. We kind of anticipated the trend that in the end, randoms are what makes WoT a good game and not the clan circlejerking.

 

On 5/13/2021 at 3:01 PM, GehakteMolen said:

Yeah, i found it quite funny to see that like every single big clan (from 2011 /12/13) died or went into coma, except for FAME and 322 (and fame was made quite a bit later, so doesnt rly count)

Only reason FAME might outlive 322 is because its suchs a big name, the best players will always wanna play for fame, as long as leadership stays active they will do fine, but will that be the case? 

 

On 5/13/2021 at 4:09 PM, OniichanSenpai said:

Yeah my biggest issue with clans like FAME is that they are tryharding.

I think you're both missing the point of a clan like FAME (or other top "competitive" clans). They exist to give players an end game and goal to work towards and to be able to actually have some kind of competitive goal, as randoms is not a motivation for them. I watch a few FAME streamers - a lot of them have pretty much marked every tier 10 (Chief, 279, Carro included), often to 100% MoE - what's the point of playing randoms after that? Sure, you can push DPG, but that's small gains and the 100% MoE kind of acts as a proxy for that anyway. Even streaming / making money that way (which a lot of FAME, INVIL, GX/RAYD etc. do) gets boring for these players if it's just constantly the same.

Competitive gameplay provides that outlet. You're acting like 322 is the normal way for good players to play, whereas it's the opposite. Most of the guys I know in FAME don't get enjoyment out of flaming in chat or dicking around in tier 7s. Without a decent competitive end game (which EU barely has, and NA lost a while ago - ask one of the NA forumites about NA clan scene, like @sr360 or @CraBeatOff), you'd actually get nearly all of those players who are left going inactive. Do you really want a WOT with the majority of the established good players not playing? That's how a server slowly dies, as it also takes away something to strive towards for newer players.

Also, you act like you've outlived a lot of clans, which I guess is easy to do in an inactive, unorganised clan. You've only really outlived them in name only though - @OniichanSenpai himself has been inactive for 5 years. Most of the guys in the top clans nowadays have been playing since 2010/11, but they've just moved around (often as a group - FAME core is basically old PTS, INVIL is old PL clans like STRNK, PMHC and shit I don't even remember etc.) - clan names usually die due to petty egos or shit like that, not because the players are no longer playing. Of course, a lot will have gone inactive for periods, but not many for 5 years and I'm sure 322 from 2012 is almost unrecognisable from 322 today, and was likewise very different in 2017. Only the leadership will be similar I guess.

I just think it sucks that WG fucked up competitive gameplay so badly. They're trying slowly on EU and a lot of people are watching the tournaments (especially 15 vs 15 where reward tanks are banned), but it's about 5 years too late.

Also, the players do get money in these tourneys, and used to get a hell of a lot more in WGL, so they don't play for "fame" or to be recognised or whatever. They all have anonymiser on in randoms even.

Sorry I just had to comment on the circlejerk between the two of you. Your way of playing isn't wrong, but don't criticise others way of playing if you don't fundamentally understand why they play that way.

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

3 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

I think you're both missing the point of a clan like FAME (or other top "competitive" clans). They exist to give players an end game and goal to work towards and to be able to actually have some kind of competitive goal, as randoms is not a motivation for them. I watch a few FAME streamers - a lot of them have pretty much marked every tier 10 (Chief, 279, Carro included), often to 100% MoE - what's the point of playing randoms after that? Sure, you can push DPG, but that's small gains and the 100% MoE kind of acts as a proxy for that anyway. Even streaming / making money that way (which a lot of FAME, INVIL, GX/RAYD etc. do) gets boring for these players if it's just constantly the same.

Competitive gameplay provides that outlet. You're acting like 322 is the normal way for good players to play, whereas it's the opposite. Most of the guys I know in FAME don't get enjoyment out of flaming in chat or dicking around in tier 7s. Without a decent competitive end game (which EU barely has, and NA lost a while ago - ask one of the NA forumites about NA clan scene, like @sr360 or @CraBeatOff), you'd actually get nearly all of those players who are left going inactive. Do you really want a WOT with the majority of the established good players not playing? That's how a server slowly dies, as it also takes away something to strive towards for newer players.

Also, you act like you've outlived a lot of clans, which I guess is easy to do in an inactive, unorganised clan. You've only really outlived them in name only though - @OniichanSenpai himself has been inactive for 5 years. Most of the guys in the top clans nowadays have been playing since 2010/11, but they've just moved around (often as a group - FAME core is basically old PTS, INVIL is old PL clans like STRNK, PMHC and shit I don't even remember etc.) - clan names usually die due to petty egos or shit like that, not because the players are no longer playing. Of course, a lot will have gone inactive for periods, but not many for 5 years and I'm sure 322 from 2012 is almost unrecognisable from 322 today, and was likewise very different in 2017. Only the leadership will be similar I guess.

I just think it sucks that WG fucked up competitive gameplay so badly. They're trying slowly on EU and a lot of people are watching the tournaments (especially 15 vs 15 where reward tanks are banned), but it's about 5 years too late.

Also, the players do get money in these tourneys, and used to get a hell of a lot more in WGL, so they don't play for "fame" or to be recognised or whatever. They all have anonymiser on in randoms even.

Sorry I just had to comment on the circlejerk between the two of you. Your way of playing isn't wrong, but don't criticise others way of playing if you don't fundamentally understand why they play that way.

Well, some background to FAME (and how it started, its long ago, so forgot / mix some names)

PTS was without doubt the best clan of the server, and due to CW cirkle jerk and ``cw > randoms``, Body_count made a new clan, 322, for unicums only (this was when you only had efficiency and win%)

Within months 322 had skillwise the best players of the server (yes, better as EFE / UNICA / Mummy, let alone all those other cw noobs) only PTS was close in terms of individual skill. Back then, there was no stats farming, good stats = good player (unless u where a cap noob, which was easy to spot) and on top, we had no red line camper bobs, but hurr durr rush rush unicums.

Because all the cw tryhard where crying that randoms no skill, must play tank company, we played tank-company, without ts or field commander, and lord and behold, we crushed all, because 15 one-man-armys with +3k wn8 -> 15 blue guys no matter how many tc they played.

After that the excuse was we had to do cw, so we tried, without ts or fc it went not that well (because half the clan didnt wanna play OR had hardly any tier 10 tanks suitable for cw) so we got 2 fc, Dovakhiin and Liveit_the_legendary_one (full name needed ofc) aaaand, IF we could field a team of 15 tier 10 tanks, would faceroll most clans easy peasy. (Pay for playing was 200 gold or so, but even for 200 gold and 10 mins, half the clan was still to lazy...)

So body_count got a nice deal with PTS (the #1 clan of wot didnt wanna fight a pointless war with us, they rather had us cover their back and gold, while we could fight near baku / stalingrad), then long story short, 322 blew up, reformed, bled more players etc etc.

Out of the remains IDEAL, F15, 322 and 247 formed, 247 beiing the real unicunt stat-whore clan

After 1 year or so, Mugen_ftw contact Rhotert (cl of 247) if 247 wanted to merge with FAME and a bunch of PTS guys, to form a new super c00l klanu.

Rhotert agreed and 247 went over to FAME, best players of PTS and UNICA + 247 ment FAME became #1 since day 1, with Mugen as commander.

And that is also why the original FAME logo was the same as the logo of 247 (see screenshots below) (it later became a golden phoenix, then a grey one, and then a grey one with green eye, because the grey one, was a gay one, so Mugen (or Majstora) added a green eye)

FAME was thus NOT started as cw clan, however when a bunch of guys from EXNOM joined (a 100% cw clan) FAME turned from random / tournaments into a cw clan, and over time most 247 guys (and a bunch of old UNICA guys) left. FAME stayed the best (cw) clan of the server and will probably be forever, but it was never created as suchs (Mugen as CL also was no cw tryhard, he was 322 afterall)

I myself also left FAME and joined 322, where body asked me to become commander (again) and help rebuilt it

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/400122-322-recruiting-again/#topmost

In regards to how much changed, suprising little, those of the 2012 / 2013 322 who still play quite a lot are in 322, old members can always return so over time we got a lot of old guys back (i`d say 20 atleast) of which ppl like M00h, Panzer, myself, Vodkjha, nathanien and JWRadetzky where in clan when it had 30 players (and in case of m00h and vodkhja, we all went 322 > 247 > FAME > 322)

As for challenge random has plenty of challenge, not like Garbadge hes challenges, but real ones, like this one from Twistoon, 95% winratio! (full try hard platoon ofc, but doesnt matter) wining +75% was the goal of platoons some managed even more (like 85%)

Due to wn8, damage became more important (and the fact u can do it alone) but for me, in the end, winratio -> everything else, nothing more impressive as the insane winratios some ppl managed (and those that cry, but platoon, show it, 99,99% of the player wont get above 85% winratio, let alone with random tanks (1x borat, 1x progetto and 1x 703v2 should be 90% winration if good enough players)

[Snoregasm2 635]

1 hour ago, GehakteMolen said:

[SNIP]

Thanks man, I knew the basics (like EXNOM) but not the level of detail you have there, it was an interesting read.

I guess that's kind of my point though - you look at FAME (or other tryhard clans) through the lens of that schism 8/9 years ago. That was before WGL, before tourneys for $/prizes, whilst the game was still very much young. It made sense back then that randoms were still fulfilling to good players, as the game was only a few years old and what could be done was still unexplored (w/r, DPG etc.). That was 8 years ago. Any player at the top of the game back then would pretty much need to be autistic to maintain that performance with nothing to stimulate/motivate except randoms. Hence WGL, touneys etc. which FAME and other clans migrated towards. The alternative is they either quit the game (many have) or they end up becoming more casual, with big gaps, like you.

WG recognised this too and introduced reward tanks and tried (half-assed) to create a competitive e-sports scene, to keep those good players (and earn $ from them, either through gold of people trying to get to their level, or through e-sports taking off, which is never did).

I guess the point is that shitting on CW or what's left of a competitive end game is counterproductive, as that's the only thing keeping longstanding players who strive to excel in the game, once they've done all the MoEs. My view is that the only way this game lasts another 10 years without bots is they somehow relaunch e-sports/WGL in a way that draws viewers / new players in, and makes existing streamers more famous, otherwise what's the point? We're all stats whores here (otherwise we wouldn't be on this site), but if no one else is trying to get good stats because they're all play4fun noobs, getting good stats is utterly pointless, as who the fuck cares?

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

5 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

txt

That comes down to what kind of players wot has.

It started out with 2 main groups i think:

1. People who were interested in history (and many early wg devs where also in this group, hence all the historical accuracy, and even now, they put a lot of effort in it, which is imo money well spend (even if sometimes reality has te be bend a bit)
2. People who wanna drive around and fight with tanks

Group 1 left to warhunder / quit or still plays (and will keep playing, since there is no alternative) Group 2 is the bigger group and they will also keep playing, wot as game is good enough, and starting all over in a new game? i wont do that so easy.

Later another (big) group joined (after a year or so) the `normal` gamer, for which wot is a game and not tank game, they think of wot like LOL or CS (or fortnite nowadays), tournaments, competition, end game, self improving etc

Those players will go away (or already went away) but for group 1, and especially group 2, all that matter is randoms, as long as wg adds new tanks and new lines its fine

(NA server was mostly group 3, hence its dead)

ps: i hate losing, so while im into group 2, i still wanna win, but not enough to quit wot over it

edit: To clarify, some1 as Kolni is looking for a challenge, he wants to improve and become better, hence cw, tournaments 3moe etc, that is the main goal of playing wot for him. For me, its about driving around with tanks, its that simple, so while i hate losing, its more about the losing itself, just like i hate doing nothing, its not about stats, its about not doing anything, that is also why i hate camping, im not playing to sit in a bush for 10 mins, i wanna drive and shoot

[OniichanSenpai 17]

21 hours ago, Snoregasm2 said:

 

 

I think you're both missing the point of a clan like FAME (or other top "competitive" clans). They exist to give players an end game and goal to work towards and to be able to actually have some kind of competitive goal, as randoms is not a motivation for them. I watch a few FAME streamers - a lot of them have pretty much marked every tier 10 (Chief, 279, Carro included), often to 100% MoE - what's the point of playing randoms after that? Sure, you can push DPG, but that's small gains and the 100% MoE kind of acts as a proxy for that anyway. Even streaming / making money that way (which a lot of FAME, INVIL, GX/RAYD etc. do) gets boring for these players if it's just constantly the same.

Competitive gameplay provides that outlet. You're acting like 322 is the normal way for good players to play, whereas it's the opposite. Most of the guys I know in FAME don't get enjoyment out of flaming in chat or dicking around in tier 7s. Without a decent competitive end game (which EU barely has, and NA lost a while ago - ask one of the NA forumites about NA clan scene, like @sr360 or @CraBeatOff), you'd actually get nearly all of those players who are left going inactive. Do you really want a WOT with the majority of the established good players not playing? That's how a server slowly dies, as it also takes away something to strive towards for newer players.

Also, you act like you've outlived a lot of clans, which I guess is easy to do in an inactive, unorganised clan. You've only really outlived them in name only though - @OniichanSenpai himself has been inactive for 5 years. Most of the guys in the top clans nowadays have been playing since 2010/11, but they've just moved around (often as a group - FAME core is basically old PTS, INVIL is old PL clans like STRNK, PMHC and shit I don't even remember etc.) - clan names usually die due to petty egos or shit like that, not because the players are no longer playing. Of course, a lot will have gone inactive for periods, but not many for 5 years and I'm sure 322 from 2012 is almost unrecognisable from 322 today, and was likewise very different in 2017. Only the leadership will be similar I guess.

I just think it sucks that WG fucked up competitive gameplay so badly. They're trying slowly on EU and a lot of people are watching the tournaments (especially 15 vs 15 where reward tanks are banned), but it's about 5 years too late.

Also, the players do get money in these tourneys, and used to get a hell of a lot more in WGL, so they don't play for "fame" or to be recognised or whatever. They all have anonymiser on in randoms even.

Sorry I just had to comment on the circlejerk between the two of you. Your way of playing isn't wrong, but don't criticise others way of playing if you don't fundamentally understand why they play that way.

I get your explanation but I mean no clan specifically but the whole scene, and that went down completely. 8 Years ago, the forum was a battleground of equally competitive clans fighting for the best players and the top positions. You would frequently - also in randoms, but mostly company battles - encounter platoons of competitive clans.

FAME is just the prime example of what is left - an esport clan left in a defunct competitive scene and a nonexistant esport scene. It's like a professional race driver showing up with his expensive car at a vintage vehicle convention, not realizing that the competition is over.

IMO, casual games like WoT have no end game at all.

[Vindi 414]

On 5/16/2021 at 11:41 AM, Snoregasm2 said:

I just think it sucks that WG fucked up competitive gameplay so badly. They're trying slowly on EU and a lot of people are watching the tournaments (especially 15 vs 15 where reward tanks are banned), but it's about 5 years too late.

 

19 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

For me, its about driving around with tanks, its that simple, so while i hate losing, its more about the losing itself, just like i hate doing nothing, its not about stats, its about not doing anything, that is also why i hate camping, im not playing to sit in a bush for 10 mins, i wanna drive and shoot

Its very interesting that these comments can summarize my experience of 10 years with tanks. On one hand, I started playing for the reason GehakteMolen mentioned, plus I'm from a military family and I was always fascinated by war-machines as such from going to festivals and riding the tank of my father in my early childhood (great memories!). This interest turned me to tanks which I started to play for fun at the beginning but this 'fun' factor turned towards the competitive side after 3-5 years and I started to grind heavily, looking for stats etc. But this 'win factor' quickly evaporated when I reached unicum then super unicum later and I clearly remember the day when I uninstalled, it was another month of 88% session in t9 or t10 and although I did not reach that many 3 marks and such I just felt an emptiness as I clicked on play again and again in my new CW tank (chieftain) farming everyone for 8k damage. Its just killed the whole point for me. Nonetheless I still watch streams on twitch and it seems every game is the same you go 5-15 or go 15-5 70% in games (or at least what I saw).

This reason turned me to LOL where I can actually play on servers that has severe  differences in difficulty and climbing and while the ranked system is pretty bad I'm still VERY far from the highest rank achieveable (challenger) and this motivates me. The competitiveness is what keeps games alive in my opinion, doing another 3 mark is not. Ultimately I always think about coming back to the game in some new account but I have few hours to play every week now and then so I always say next year.

Nonetheless the game itself remains very unique I just feel that developers abandoned one half of the game for profits and shiny premiums.

[Folterknecht 2,241]

Hi,

there from an other Ex 322, OM, PTS - never was in FAME - player. My main was sold and my 2nd account with 2-3 t10s is used for playing ships from time to time. Though that game will probably reach shit show status even faster than WoT.

Bring back a modified 2012 client and I ll come back and play, as I did for a week or two like a few years ago, but the nonsense of endless goldrounds, no weakspots, fantasy tanks and nearly fully stabilized firing in historic tanks (the accuracy is at least at that level when moving) is keeping me away without a desire to return playing.

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

7 hours ago, Folterknecht said:

Hi,

there from an other Ex 322, OM, PTS - never was in FAME - player. My main was sold and my 2nd account with 2-3 t10s is used for playing ships from time to time. Though that game will probably reach shit show status even faster than WoT.

Bring back a modified 2012 client and I ll come back and play, as I did for a week or two like a few years ago, but the nonsense of endless goldrounds, no weakspots, fantasy tanks and nearly fully stabilized firing in historic tanks (the accuracy is at least at that level when moving) is keeping me away without a desire to return playing.

I accepted the bold part and now embrace the new overall campy gameplay, gone are the days of 3 t9 meds steamrolling baddies in <4mins

One thing that really improved though is arty, no AP or HEAT, no stupid high dmg, and they seem to miss A LOT, while stun is annoying, getting stunned is 10x better as losing 500 hp..

[Folterknecht 2,241]

9 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

 

One thing that really improved though is arty, no AP or HEAT, no stupid high dmg, and they seem to miss A LOT, while stun is annoying, getting stunned is 10x better as losing 500 hp..

 

You know I'm on the other end of that argument. I miss my 2012 GW-P, 261 and GW-E with tracers and counter battery play. I 'd go mad, if I had to endure the stun BS while playing tanks.

[GehakteMolen 2,056]

1 minute ago, Folterknecht said:

You know I'm on the other end of that argument. I miss my 2012 GW-P, 261 and GW-E with tracers and counter battery play. I 'd go mad, if I had to endure the stun BS while playing tanks.

Hence i mention it