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PieterJ

What tanks to put arty detection on?

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Hey Guys,

Wondering what your opinion is on the new arty detection.

I played around on Sandbox and CT with it. But I don't have a clear answer to what tanks to put this on. Mostly because arty is so inaccurate. 

If you put it on a light and you get a warning and start moving, it can very well happen that you move directly under the shell instead of away from it.

For heavies, you can turn your tank towards the arty. But if the arty hits next to you or behind you, it does a lot more damage then hitting your front. So the turn is not guaranteed to help. It might even make it worse because now the shell lands next to you.....

Aggressive mediums maybe?

So what is your view on this. What tanks are helped by it and in what way?

Cheers,

Pieter

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Since there are so many other useful commander skills, I’ll put it on tanks which have a spare commander skill available beyond 6th/camo/repair/recon/BiA/FF/SA. So… like 1 or 2 so far. 

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Strangely it will probably end up on arty, they only really need 6th sense and bia on the commander so 3rd choice. And the long shell travel time from arty nest to arty nest means they might actually have a chance to react.

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2 hours ago, Grimdope said:

Strangely it will probably end up on arty, they only really need 6th sense and bia on the commander so 3rd choice. And the long shell travel time from arty nest to arty nest means they might actually have a chance to react.

But will it help if you’re being CB’d by tracer fire, or only when lit? If lit it really doesn’t matter, you’re lit and there’s an EBR in your face!

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Yeah, I can't see it getting much usage given there is already so much competition for commander skills, particularly in crews with only 4 or 3 people, because then the commander is also often the radioman, which means he needs to take both Recon and Situational Awareness to max view range (plus obviously 6th and BIA), so that is already 4 skills and as many people probably realised when Crew 2.0 was announced, most people run crews with 3-4 skills, possibly 5-6 on their commanders if they used their special crew-members wisely.

Ironically, I also feel it's usefulness has also been diminished by the other things they put in with the tracers (which I quite like) and the map ping where the last shot landed, I already found that helps you to have a good idea where the arty is (so whether it is likely to be able to hit you) and where it is already aiming, especially for more mobile tanks.

Bit of a dud in my opinion.

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I put it on my T49 commander because I only lost 12 view range (from 523 to 511) switching Sit Awareness to Sound detection and 90% Recon to Sit Awareness.

 

I haven't actually been shot at by arty while stationary yet so I'm not sure if it works lmao

 

E: turns out I had my interface sound set way low and that's the one that controls that sound so I literally just never heard it.  

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Is it really useful? in most places the shell flies 1-1.5s. Not enough to often even avoid a direct hit. It should be uber situational 

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Tested it a few games on 2 tanks. It's useless. One time on my Panther I got detection and moved backwards. Basically to move right onto the arty landing spot. I am going to remove it from the few tanks I put it on. 

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Its good on tanks that are fast and paper, so something like a Leopard or Grille, you are often stationary and take a ton of dmg, but can move enough to make it worth dodging.

And if you move right in the shell, well thats bad luck, if the arty player aims on your tank, most shells will land on your current place, so moving away will long term mean less dmg taken.

Only problem is, its an commander (?) skill, and commander too many skills, this would have been better on radio man (who is also half the time commander, but still better as commander...)

ps: on high skill crews, you have 6e, bia and a mix of repair, camo, view range, so hard choice what to dump, if you have optics (instead of vents) you can however drop the view range skill and make it worth it, but its min maxing

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I can't think of many tanks were it would be above 6th, BIA, view range and repairs. That's at least 4 skills (or 5 if no radioman). If you're maxing view range, that means you want to max camo too, so that takes it to 5/6. If you're in a heavy, you might not have camo but will want FF usually (and I still have camo on heavy crews like Chief because i have 6 skills and it's situationally useful in end game scenarios).

So yeah, if you're packing a 7 skill crew or don't care about view range at all (Maus?), then go for it.

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1 hour ago, Snoregasm2 said:

I can't think of many tanks were it would be above 6th, BIA, view range and repairs. That's at least 4 skills (or 5 if no radioman). If you're maxing view range, that means you want to max camo too, so that takes it to 5/6. If you're in a heavy, you might not have camo but will want FF usually (and I still have camo on heavy crews like Chief because i have 6 skills and it's situationally useful in end game scenarios).

So yeah, if you're packing a 7 skill crew or don't care about view range at all (Maus?), then go for it.

Firefighting can be dropped easy though, on commander atleast, this arty perk is better.

The detection will also help you look up to see from where the round comes, the tracers allow u to see the shells easy, so angling / driving away should be possible that way (even my slow ass t7 brit heavy could do it a bit) (especially slow shells from CGC can be dodged i bet, 1 sec travel time for the shell is a lot, if u can move 5m, thats enough)

Its ofc gonna be situational, but so is firefighting

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2 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Firefighting can be dropped easy though, on commander atleast, this arty perk is better.

The detection will also help you look up to see from where the round comes, the tracers allow u to see the shells easy, so angling / driving away should be possible that way (even my slow ass t7 brit heavy could do it a bit) (especially slow shells from CGC can be dodged i bet, 1 sec travel time for the shell is a lot, if u can move 5m, thats enough)

Its ofc gonna be situational, but so is firefighting

Nah, tanks that burn you want 100% FF on all crew, then run the directive, which makes it twice as effective but ONLY if all crew are 100% trained (which is why you can't mix and match it).

On those tanks, dropping FF on the commander means you either run the risk of burning every other game or you don't run food, which is a huge impact either way.

Like I said, it's only some tanks you do this on, but for those tanks i'd say FF is more important than this new perk, meaning it would be 6th or 7th on the commander skill tier list.

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18 minutes ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Nah, tanks that burn you want 100% FF on all crew, then run the directive, which makes it twice as effective but ONLY if all crew are 100% trained (which is why you can't mix and match it).

On those tanks, dropping FF on the commander means you either run the risk of burning every other game or you don't run food, which is a huge impact either way.

Like I said, it's only some tanks you do this on, but for those tanks i'd say FF is more important than this new perk, meaning it would be 6th or 7th on the commander skill tier list.

And it's a perk, so you need it 100% trained. So I agree -- at best as a 5-6th skill (after 6th/BiA/repairs/FF and maybe vision skills) on a heavy or TD, and an 8th skill on lights/meds (6th/BiA/repairs/FF/camo/SA/recon). Opportunity cost is a real thing.

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I’d rate it highly on tanks that’ll take 5-600 from direct hits but significantly less otherwise

Getting out of the stun is the big win for running it IMO and that only matters when your mobility allows to get out of splash range -> completely useless on heavies 

Leo1/STB? Easily better than FF

907 or more armoured? FF will be better

General skills still better, VR skills will only be better if you will make use of the extra VR to generate dealt damage higher than HP lost by arty for the tradeoff - easy to do if you understand vision well, not so much if you can’t discern how the vision will change with an extra 10m VR as then you will make use of it less than every 10th game

I would just skill normally and try this skill out for a while to see if the impact is worthwhile for most players, you never know how much this could change your gameplay until you try it out TBH

 

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Another ``new`` skill is Intuition, it allows for quick ammo swapping (1,5 - 2 sec on most tanks i think)

While not worth it on many tanks, in certain specific cases this is usefull (if not a must) Centurion mk7 for example has a great HESH round (480 dmg 220 pen) but a bit situational, with new intuition, you can swap ammo easy.

Same goes for ebr 105 and Fv 4005 i think, or rather, every tank where HE is usefull OR where you have low pen AP and heat (E100 might also benefit, AP for weaklings / side shits, HEAT for the rest and HE for specific cases

Perhaps just for HE usage alone this is a usefull, you dont need to pre-load HE, you can just load HE if you see some paper tank (aiming takes as much time as swapping ammo, so you can swap at the last moment if needed)

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2 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

Another ``new`` skill is Intuition, it allows for quick ammo swapping (1,5 - 2 sec on most tanks i think)

While not worth it on many tanks, in certain specific cases this is usefull (if not a must) Centurion mk7 for example has a great HESH round (480 dmg 220 pen) but a bit situational, with new intuition, you can swap ammo easy.

Same goes for ebr 105 and Fv 4005 i think, or rather, every tank where HE is usefull OR where you have low pen AP and heat (E100 might also benefit, AP for weaklings / side shits, HEAT for the rest and HE for specific cases

Perhaps just for HE usage alone this is a usefull, you dont need to pre-load HE, you can just load HE if you see some paper tank (aiming takes as much time as swapping ammo, so you can swap at the last moment if needed)

It is actually very very useful. Here are some use cases:

4005/183: swaps between AP and HESH in 4.5s 

TVP/Batchat: swaps between a full clip of Apcr or heat in 4.5s 

Chieftain: swap between Apcr and HESH in 1.5s

907: swap between apcr and heat in 1s

Arty: quick swaps between shell types

pretty much the only tanks it’s not great on are auto reloaders, or low caliber tanks where you always shoot premium rounds. 

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56 minutes ago, sr360 said:

It is actually very very useful. Here are some use cases:

4005/183: swaps between AP and HESH in 4.5s 

TVP/Batchat: swaps between a full clip of Apcr or heat in 4.5s 

Chieftain: swap between Apcr and HESH in 1.5s

907: swap between apcr and heat in 1s

Arty: quick swaps between shell types

pretty much the only tanks it’s not great on are auto reloaders, or low caliber tanks where you always shoot premium rounds. 

T49 swaps in 3.5 :)

I actually already had Intuition on both my M53/55 and the T49 due to ... having no other skills for the loader to train.  That if nothing else makes the skill worth it once you're done with Bia/Safe/Camo or Repairs because what else is there? FF, sure but then... Adrenaline Rush? Lmao

 

Anyways, I loved Intuition before and I absolutely adore it now - It lets me not have to flex my precognitive skills nearly as hard for what ammo type to have loaded in the T49.

It's useless on arty though because the other shell types are meh.

 

As for Sound Detection, I did find one very good side benefit of having it on my T49 (and passive scouts in general) - it's nearly impossible to blind shot me out of common scout bushes anymore as an artillery

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Intuition effect is fine but it’s not anything to play around so that alone makes it very bad. 
 

Yeah you can reload a 183 shell to a better ammotype - same for clips but nobody in their right mind is going to swap those shells out to gamble a 10% vs a 30 second reload punish.. in that time frame you can always find a way to fire them and THEN swap to the better ammotype

If you’re willing to gamble that amount of downtime on that percentage (if there’s no punish for reloading then the skill has no value so downtime should always be assumed) as part of the gameplay it’s basically the same amount of stupid as camo/bino/repair equip on maus

There’s no downside to running the skill at least but it is by all means the absolute last useful skill on a loader, it is useful still on EVERY tank but it’s always going to be the one that is the worst out of the useful 

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6 hours ago, kolni said:

Intuition effect is fine but it’s not anything to play around so that alone makes it very bad. 
 

Yeah you can reload a 183 shell to a better ammotype - same for clips but nobody in their right mind is going to swap those shells out to gamble a 10% vs a 30 second reload punish.. in that time frame you can always find a way to fire them and THEN swap to the better ammotype

If you’re willing to gamble that amount of downtime on that percentage (if there’s no punish for reloading then the skill has no value so downtime should always be assumed) as part of the gameplay it’s basically the same amount of stupid as camo/bino/repair equip on maus

There’s no downside to running the skill at least but it is by all means the absolute last useful skill on a loader, it is useful still on EVERY tank but it’s always going to be the one that is the worst out of the useful 

what the hell are you talking about?  Intuition is now a 100% proc as long as you're fully reloaded my dude

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16 hours ago, PlanetaryGenocide said:

As for Sound Detection, I did find one very good side benefit of having it on my T49 (and passive scouts in general) - it's nearly impossible to blind shot me out of common scout bushes anymore as an artillery

Now that is something i'd not considered - being able to avoid blind bush shots is actually the most useful thing about this new perk, i'd argue. There's a lot of maps / end game scenarios where a decent arty will know where you are more or less - if you position yourself arse forward (so you can drive quickly), i guess this will help avoid most/all damage, particularly if the bush is on the top of a hill.

There's still a good chance the arty misses and hits you driving away, but it'll work out more often than it doesn't.

The problem on lights is you need view range, so even with no repairs, it'll still be 6th (SS, BIA, Camo, view range x2).

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2 minutes ago, Snoregasm2 said:

Now that is something i'd not considered - being able to avoid blind bush shots is actually the most useful thing about this new perk, i'd argue. There's a lot of maps / end game scenarios where a decent arty will know where you are more or less - if you position yourself arse forward (so you can drive quickly), i guess this will help avoid most/all damage, particularly if the bush is on the top of a hill.

There's still a good chance the arty misses and hits you driving away, but it'll work out more often than it doesn't.

The problem on lights is you need view range, so even with no repairs, it'll still be 6th (SS, BIA, Camo, view range x2).

Yeah it really only applies to my T49 for now because that Commander is on the sixth skill lmfao.  I deemed it worth dropping Recon for because i've been getting blindshot by arty more often

 

Does help avoid CB but I usually moved after shots even before the new tracers so...

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49 minutes ago, PlanetaryGenocide said:

what the hell are you talking about?  Intuition is now a 100% proc as long as you're fully reloaded my dude

I misses that lol, then it’s clearly very very useful

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Okay, not having a crew with the skill (because none skilled enough) exactly what does Sound Detection give you that isn't part of the other changes? The warning sound and marking out the anticipated tracer flight path, right?

I honestly can't tell if I'm just imaging things but since the patch, if I'm already in the vicinity of an incoming arty round, your sound turns 'hollow' (that muffled sound like you're underwater) before the round lands, so you already get some warning (not much, admittedly, but for a mobile tank, it has proven enough in cases where I'm paying attention) that you're in the area and about to get crapped on. Add in the visible tracers and the map ping and I do already feel like I'm suffering less from arty so far, despite the fact the MM is swarming with them since the patch dropped. With these already helping out, the opportunity cost still seems way too high unless your commander is ridiculously pimped out.

Also agree that new Intuition seems super powerful on a wide range of tanks, but I have it on a tiny handful of tanks, so will likely need to drop a lot of credits/gold for retraining I think.

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