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The Full Stealth Build

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I've been running these builds for over a week now and after 144 battles I'm at 61% winrate, which is about 10% above my recent 1000 winrate. MOEs rising. 

Highly recommend that 300m minimap circle I mentioned in the above post, it really helps keep the tank at the optimum range from the bad guys.

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Hwk 30 3 mark took a little longer than I expected, because flat 8s combined with a plethora of lights means the marks climbed slowish.

Now running this build as per Crab's suggestion on the K-91... and OHLORDISTHISGOOD. Replays coming soon to my thread.

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So I recently got back-ish to the game after about two years, saw the new equipment, saw this thread, got my 2nd mark on t49 in three games with this build :D

Gun handling is absolutely atrocious now and HE is shit, but RMB LMB from 5 metres still works fine :D

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Thank you for your continued work in this area. Really enjoying my HWK 30 with CVS first slot, Bounty Optics, Bounty LNES. However, I couldn't make it work with the LTTB. Not sure what I was doing differently but very different results. Once I max out battle pass points on the HWK I may go back and try again. Though the Senlac and tree Bulldog beckon.

Crews are similar, 5-6 skill BIA full SA and Recon crews. Food but no directives.

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Edited by ikitai
Remove comma splice.
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Been enjoying the different approach here. My notes:

  • Capabilities def. increase exponentially with a platoon - having people actually shooting your lights is key (pinging map works ~15% of the time)
  • The rage factor when a med that has been lit for 20+ seconds in the middle of Karelia and just advances and advances untouched on you is very real
  • With HWK and M41 - put low-noise exhaust in the first spot. For HWK this brings you up to >40% camo. Since you are min-maxing, be strategic about that first spot (if you are a cheap bastard about fancy equipment like me).
  • Still have a hard time with German/US M41 and especially the HWK for damage - leading to some WN8 crushing sessions. Trying T92 with this build and it seems to be working (though that speed cap of 60mph can hit hard)
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Played a few hundred battles with this build and I get a stellar result in about 1 in 20 battles. The much more usual result is lots of spots but team fails to hit or even shoot at what is spotted. I'm enjoying the SR360 youtube vids but I'm now sure having the unicum platoon is key to more frequent success.

I'm looking forward to Field Mods in 1.14 so I can just turn on the stealth when the map is worth it. I have played so many Himmelsdorfs and Pearl Rivers lately it makes me weep.

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3 hours ago, Gryphon_ said:

Played a few hundred battles with this build and I get a stellar result in about 1 in 20 battles. The much more usual result is lots of spots but team fails to hit or even shoot at what is spotted. I'm enjoying the SR360 youtube vids but I'm now sure having the unicum platoon is key to more frequent success.

I'm looking forward to Field Mods in 1.14 so I can just turn on the stealth when the map is worth it. I have played so many Himmelsdorfs and Pearl Rivers lately it makes me weep.

For what it's worth...most decent players can play the support fire role, especially with voice comms. There is skill to hitting the shots, using bushes, knowing when to rotate - but the scout is the key role - the hard one to play. 

And further - the scout platoon play is always different. You can push the envelope, bait people into poking and thus punished, etc. The build is just a tool for doing the job better, being more protected, and being able to use more pieces of the map. Nothing about equipping a CVS and LNES makes pubbies know where to be or how to anticipate shots.

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1 hour ago, Strigonx said:

Been doing some experimenting with the stealth fighter builds, i have now been enlightened about the power of 50% camo light tanks.

Be your own bush!

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With Auxiliary Loadout, the Stealth setup just became even more powerful, with the ability to swap to a firepower setup at will. Notably, the Bourrasque, K-91, T49 and 13 105 sparkle with the 2 loadouts. Once I unlock them on my 9s, I'll test them there too.

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The RhmPzw 3 marked with field mods and full stealth alt with full firepower. 46% camo and 523 VR on a tank that goes nearly 80, and a gun that fully dialed in picks on EBRs decently. 

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So the real winners of this build (and field modifications) are the French Support Medium Tanks. The Bat25t, Bat25 AP, Char 4 and Bourrasque. With proper configuration they become full on LT worthy - breaking the 40% camo on the move barrier (bLNES), with slotted CVS (once you upgrade to level 6) and bond optics. The view ranges are not quite what you get from LTs at tier (527, 486, 486 and 499 respectively) but they reach the critical amount that you can always have +1 LT on your team if you so choose. Maybe a LT that's too big for EVERY bush that you can put a Manti/T-100/AMX 13 or EBR in...but good enough that you can do work. As a bonus - because they have MORE camo when sitting still than many of the best LTs do when moving (unless equipped the same) then you're able to invent positions >300m simply by sneaking there and sitting still. It's frankly game-breaking. I 3 marked the Char today using this build like...80% of the time with a session average of 2900+1800. You become 90-95% as effective a spotter as a LT now - but with lopsided MM and most importantly... a gun that works. LTs have always been hampered by low hp, bad pen, bad accuracy. They get results sure, in good hands - this comes at a penalty for winning. I simply cannot pub LTs at these tiers for as many wins as a good MT or HT. But now you don't need to play gimpy LTs to have camo fun - and you won't groan when you get Himmels, Ensk, Serene Coast and the other maps too small to use camo and vision on. Now you just select your gun config, and are a perfectly well equipped MT with burst - waiting until your next monster spotting game on Live Oaks, Highway, Fisherman's Bay  - or some other map that pubbies don't think of as a vision map* and then you dominate on

*I did 2900 dmg + 3700 spotting  in the Char4 on Ruinberg today because there were no LTs to zoom/burn me out of the middle. It was silly. I had fun. Kemp boosh 4 lyfe. 

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I want to put this in another framing. Imagine you had a set of field mods available to the AMX 13 105. They were as such

  • Lose 5% camo to gain 400 hitpoints
  • Lose 6kph forward speed and 3 backward speed  for 2.5% more view range
  • Lose 2 degrees gun depression for +30/+50 penetration
  • Increase 12s reload speed for 2 more shells
  • Increase a small amount of bloom for 9% accuracy increase

All of these would be worth it - except maybe the 12s reload for 2 more shells...maybe. But that's basically the difference between the field modded and Full Stealth Bat25t and the AMX 13 105 now. Some tradeoffs - but incredibly advantageous ones for Random Battles. 

@Gryphon_

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5 hours ago, CraBeatOff said:

So the real winners of this build (and field modifications) are the French Support Medium Tanks. The Bat25t, Bat25 AP, Char 4 and Bourrasque. With proper configuration they become full on LT worthy - breaking the 40% camo on the move barrier (bLNES), with slotted CVS (once you upgrade to level 6) and bond optics. The view ranges are not quite what you get from LTs at tier (527, 486, 486 and 499 respectively) but they reach the critical amount that you can always have +1 LT on your team if you so choose. Maybe a LT that's too big for EVERY bush that you can put a Manti/T-100/AMX 13 or EBR in...but good enough that you can do work. As a bonus - because they have MORE camo when sitting still than many of the best LTs do when moving (unless equipped the same) then you're able to invent positions >300m simply by sneaking there and sitting still. It's frankly game-breaking. I 3 marked the Char today using this build like...80% of the time with a session average of 2900+1800. You become 90-95% as effective a spotter as a LT now - but with lopsided MM and most importantly... a gun that works. LTs have always been hampered by low hp, bad pen, bad accuracy. They get results sure, in good hands - this comes at a penalty for winning. I simply cannot pub LTs at these tiers for as many wins as a good MT or HT. But now you don't need to play gimpy LTs to have camo fun - and you won't groan when you get Himmels, Ensk, Serene Coast and the other maps too small to use camo and vision on. Now you just select your gun config, and are a perfectly well equipped MT with burst - waiting until your next monster spotting game on Live Oaks, Highway, Fisherman's Bay  - or some other map that pubbies don't think of as a vision map* and then you dominate on

*I did 2900 dmg + 3700 spotting  in the Char4 on Ruinberg today because there were no LTs to zoom/burn me out of the middle. It was silly. I had fun. Kemp boosh 4 lyfe. 

I think you've opened the door to my next phase of WOT play. I like playing the AMX13-105 but the gun lets me down 50% of the time I pull the trigger. Today, I put 2 rounds into the back of a 907 at 200m and neither penned. I lose every brawl as at least one round doesnt pen. I can back these statements up with multiple replays from any day I play. The spotting is great with the stealth build, but the damage sucks.

On the other hand, the Bat is a better damage dealer but without the exhaust the lower camo makes it noticeably easier to get spotted (and die). So I will field mod it for stealth. I'm also 3 steps away from the Char, so will do same with that. 

It is so ridic that this game now has heavy tanks faster than my old mediums, some mediums faster than some of my lights, and with the tier ten lights both the spotting and the damage dealing are broken, but in different ways. 

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Wondering what the choices of some of the non-obvious field mods were for the uni's here?  Selections II,IV,VII and VIII for the tier ten lights for example.  Any thoughts?

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4 hours ago, xChopblockx said:

Wondering what the choices of some of the non-obvious field mods were for the uni's here?  Selections II,IV,VII and VIII for the tier ten lights for example.  Any thoughts?

Dual Modification II: +3% engine power or +2% top speed. For speed-capped LTs, I took the top speed boost. For most I left it alone. For the RhmPzw which is ludicrously overengined to the point of tipover, the engine power hit made it more comfortable, and the speed boost to 77 is awesome. The T92 at tier 8 also benefited from the top speed boost.

Dual Modification IV: -3% reload time vs -3% accuracy: I personally took accuracy in most of my lights. I've already sacrificed my DPM, I just want to hit the shots.

Dual Modification VII: +2% VR or +2% camo. This is VERY tank dependent. The 13 105 has camo to burn but struggles with VR, so I took the VR. The Sheridan and RhmPzw with their 420 base have VR beyond what they can use, so I took camo. I left it alone for the "balanced" LTs.

Dual Modification VIII: -3% camo for enemies behind foliage or -3% camo for enemies in open. Spotting things in the open isn't the issue, not with my 510+ VR T10s. I took behind foliage universally.

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Totally from solo-pubbing, but I don't know if I'm not built for this or what - always feel I need to get to an early spot and make a difference early- which seems to get me into trouble (Abbey, Ensk, Overlord, Pilsen, Lakeville, Karelia, Ruinberg). Get a few lights, but seems like even in a good covered spot in Karelia, mid never get the cover I am expecting in the first period. And lanes of fire aren't always long enough to get the full spotting/assisting damage. 

Been try-harding with the T92 to cut my teeth with this build, and while the size is nice, it's tough. And it's damage output for when a scrape comes your way with another LT hurts bad. At the same time, the early aggression and need to make a difference early gets me in a shitload of trouble with tanks like the 40t too... So maybe it's just my next cut at the game in  general. 

Even trying it in my 13-90, the low-ish 370 VR means I am finishing most games with more damage than spotting. 

Love the Youtube videos SR, thanks for keeping them coming. 

 


 

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Few more observations and where I get to go:

  • Put like 50+ battles into the HWK with pure stealth build and while it's been rage-inducing, I've been seeing #s consistently getting better as I soften my play and adapt. 
  • Man, you need to understand the tank you are playing if you are min-maxing on spotting and stealth - I kind of thought all LTs could just be kitted out and played the same with this. While there is a lot of overlap, do your homework. EG the HWK has that sexy HE round, but at 750m/s you have got to know your machine and how to aim it because if you miss one shot in the LT brawl with a wheelie or something, you are gonzo. 
  • Speaking of wheelies - running the t92 and HWK show you how good the 432 and wheeled vehicles are - getting actual bounces and that stupidly non-sensical auto-aim and HE pen of wheeled vehicles is insane. Lastly - wheelies forceextra- passive play - there are games where your team just can't hit them all game and it limits what you can do. I get so frustrated that I snap a shot (usually miss) and then regret it. 
  • Playing this role helps you appreciate where fire lanes are. While intelligence on what tanks are going where is useful (most pubbies don't really care anyway), if there are no shots available because of draw distance or terrain the #s are not going to come in. 
  • Playing the full passive scout shows you how fucking terrible WoT players can be. When you have nothing to do but sit there and watch your team distribution, the missed shots, enemy tanks just driving across open ground, an enemy LT spotted from 400 yards out who just bum rushes you without getting touched - it can burn deep. I turn to Crab's signature for inner peace during these times. 
  • EDIT ADDITION: You can also make a lot of net credits with this - 6 figure games w/o boosters are more common than I thought they would be. 

 I still get snuffed out quickly at times, but am leaning into the challenge and even enjoying it. 2.5k combined games used to be "good", but now those 4-6k games are showing up more often. Generally prefer tier X games in the t8 LT's than being top-tier.

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I'm probably doing something wrong, but how can my t100 with 480m vr, 44% camo and boosted CVS get regularly outspotted by pretty much every tank in the game?

Not even firing or staying in the open, I'm literally sitting inside a bush yet SS goes off and nothing gets spotted in return 😕

 

I don't get it

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4 hours ago, WhatTheSkara said:

I'm probably doing something wrong, but how can my t100 with 480m vr, 44% camo and boosted CVS get regularly outspotted by pretty much every tank in the game?

Not even firing or staying in the open, I'm literally sitting inside a bush yet SS goes off and nothing gets spotted in return 😕

 

I don't get it

480m is why. Every single thing i run has between 486 and 527. And most are 499+. Only the Char4 slums with 486 but that's about all you can squeeze from bond optics and the directive is too pricey.

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11 hours ago, WhatTheSkara said:

I'm probably doing something wrong, but how can my t100 with 480m vr, 44% camo and boosted CVS get regularly outspotted by pretty much every tank in the game?

Not even firing or staying in the open, I'm literally sitting inside a bush yet SS goes off and nothing gets spotted in return 😕

 

I don't get it

480m is pretty bad in the current meta. I mean, even the Bourrasque set up right runs 517m VR with mid-40s sitting camo.

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Unfortunately I don't have bounty equipment nor enough bonds to afford a few sets of improved optics.

 

As per my status reply, I'll give it a go on some meds (bat, 140) and see what happens

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Yeah, I think if you are under 500m VR you still need to be very careful against other lights and picking where you go, although there are still plenty of mediums that you can abuse at those kinds of numbers unless they are kitted for vision. I've gotten my T100-LT to 50% camo (no food) but still crappy VR at only 462m (this is with a bounty Optics, but because Recon is only at 48% and I'm running the Field Modification that reduces VR for experimentation) and it is noticeable that against other vision-kitted scouts that there's a decent chance I get lit first if I'm not careful. Not really had much chance to check out 50% camo though, as MM insists on giving me all the crappy maps in my T100 and I somehow end up playing more like a medium tank (it feels so wrong running the stealth build and then doing 3.5k damage and 1k spotting because of a tiny corridor map and brain dead allies)

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Update:

I gave it a go in the obj 140, regular equipment (all I can afford at the moment) gives me 490 something view range, about 40% camo and boosted CVS.

I got prok, south spawn on encounter, so the 1/2 line becomes less relevant but I thought it would still be a good test bed for the build, especially since there were no LTs: well it fucking sucked, I snook up the 1/2 up to the middle ridge only to find my support tanks had melted for some reason and I found myself alone vs a t95 and a bunch of mediums.

 

Idk if it's bad luck or me not understanding spotting/camo mechanics anymore 😕

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