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Paaranoja

BIA fascination

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No, hull and turret displacement are independent of crew.

 

[pedant]

Excepting Snap Shot and Smooth Ride.  (and the latter only affects straight line motion, not turning your hull, and is a really small value, something like 4%)

[/pedant]

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[pedant]

Excepting Snap Shot and Smooth Ride. (and the latter only affects straight line motion, not turning your hull, and is a really small value, something like 4%)

[/pedant]

He's asking about the base dispersion values assigned to track and turret and if they're affected by crew's primary training. As far as I'm aware, modules have their own built in dispersion number.

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It is my opinion that BiA makes perfect sense on certain tanks, especially ones with a stripped down crew. BiA becomes a much bigger bang for the buck when you have 3 crew members than when you have 5-6 crew members. BiA also becomes more useful when the role of the tank is relegated to sniping or passive scouting, or something otherwise very specific. To get the absolute best view range at the cost of say, turning speed or whatever, toss BiA on in addition to everything else. To get the absolute best DPM for the sniper in the back (Kewei!), toss BiA on... etc.

However, I do understand the sacrifice of other skills for a possible meaningless and unrealized bonus. To say BiA is situational is an understatement, but it is no less situational than any of the other skills. If you never get crit, repair becomes useless (I know, a rarity). If you are in a T95, how useful is snapshot?

The truth is that BiA gives you a bonus in no matter the role, but the bonus is possibly unrealized since it is so small.

Let's look at it another way, looking specifically at the M1A2 76mm gun. Aimtime on that gun is quicker than the gun can reload, so is there a reason for a GLD, (with the center heavy normalization in place I will continue to argue that it is better to fire before aimed in and then reload in the SAME time it takes to aim in (putting 2 shots downfield vs 1))? Is there a reason for snapshot? If instead you tossed vents and BiA on, the gun reloads quicker while aiming quicker and loading quicker. It suddenly acts very much like a burst on an autoloader. But autoloaders typically have an aiming issue while in intra-clip reload.

So again, to sum up, to me BiA is very worth it on some tanks and not so much on others.

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I suppose there was a popular appeal to BiA, especially early on, but these days, I can say I only put it on autoloaders, and tanks I generally want to maximize DPM or cover obscenely low rates-of-fire. 

The only other reason is because I have so many skills, it's a great luxury.

 

I have it on T57, AMX50B, T110E5, FV215b, 121 (because crew is Type-59-built epic) and Leopard 1. (which has my 2nd-best crew behind the Type, easily BiA luxury)

 

The only TD I have BiA on is, I believe, the T30, and I insist on it because with a fully revolving turret, I can neglect clutch braking (which I highly prefer on turretless TD's), and because the RoF is terribly low. 

 

(technically I have it on the Maus crew but that is not a tank I plan to rebuy when it's 76mm is enabled. Priority of which falls under the When It's Done It's DoneTM category, which is even longer than SoonTM which generally is equal to 8 weeks)

 

TL;DR #1 -- min-max DPM, or cover awful (TD/arty/autoloader) load times. 

 

==================

 

All this being said, some tanks derive maximum benefit from repair skill, and camo, such as Russian/Chinese mediums. These also need safe stowage. Light bulbs are just as requisite, of course. 

 

So with tanks like this, I run into the situation I have 3.5+ skills, and no BiA, because although it's a luxury I can now generally afford, I would still rather MAX OUT repair, camo, [PERK] and have a relevant percentage of a 4th skill, than lose any of the aforementioned skills/perks just for BiA. 

 

Player' like Garbad value BiA a lot, but I gladly have a T-62A with %100 camo, repair, clutch braking, and working on smooth ride. 

A gunner with camo, repair, %100 armorer/snap shot, building the other. 

%100 camo, repair, safe stowage, and, well, fire fighting for lack of a better loader option. :P

etc. on Commander

 

TL;DR #2: BiA pointlessly min-maxes crew proficiency, whereas skill-hoarding means a crew is equally able to perform passive/active scout roles OR brawl at peak capability, when it benefits equally from camo and repair. 

 

TL;DR #3 -- IMO, BiA is a much bigger tournament consideration than either Random Battles or Clan Wars, where minmaxing everything becomes a potential game-swinging stack. 

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I blame Garbad and some other NA unicums for that.

 

I used to be a proponent for the other crew skills as i saw BIA as not giving enough for what you have to put in, but it was an uphill fight and i gave in eventually.

 

I also never believed on the usefulness of vents when you could use a GLD or Optics instead. And i was stacking GLD/Vstab before it was cool to.

 

honestly i also blame a few unicums for this alot.

 

Bia is pretty much only worth it if you are at over 350% crew skills basicly bia+perk+(repair or camo).

 

im closing in on 100 diffrent tanks played and about 3 have ever had bia.

there are so many other skills that are crucial.

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I have BiA on all my 10s except for E-100, since they're pretty much all at 4-5 crew skills. I guess that's the upside of having acce training on all tanks and hardly ever covert free exp.

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My basic rule is probably: BiA no sooner than 350% on tanks that don't need both Repair and Camouflage (i.e. Heavies don't need Camouflage, most Lights probably don't need Repair) and no sooner t han 450% on tanks that do need both Repair and Camouflage (most Mediums and TDs (I think? I don't play TDs)). For arty you could possibly do BiA as first. Not sure how useful Sixth Sense is on them (particularly on the higher tier, slower, fatter ones where getting spotted probably means death pretty much as soon as the bulb goes off anyway).

 

I actually think it's generally easier to pick up BiA on bigger crews. This is because I care most about the "core" secondaries: Repair and Camouflage and, of course, Sixth Sense. If you have a 300% crew and go BiA + Sixth Sense and Repair you still have 83% Repair in a 6-person crew but only 67% Repair in a 3-person.

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I put in on most tanks for the second set of skills after I have completed the second and started the third crew skill. That said, I often don't run vents... gasp!

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Are you using crew training % in the conventional means of including primary training, i.e. 350% = 2.5 secondary skills?

 

Precisely. Basically, if you only need Repair, I'd only consider switching over when my commander can have BiA + 6th + 50% Repair. But that's the earliest I'd do it.

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My basic rule is probably: BiA no sooner than 350% on tanks that don't need both Repair and Camouflage (i.e. Heavies don't need Camouflage, most Lights probably don't need Repair) and no sooner t han 450% on tanks that do need both Repair and Camouflage (most Mediums and TDs (I think? I don't play TDs)). For arty you could possibly do BiA as first. Not sure how useful Sixth Sense is on them (particularly on the higher tier, slower, fatter ones where getting spotted probably means death pretty much as soon as the bulb goes off anyway).

 

I actually think it's generally easier to pick up BiA on bigger crews. This is because I care most about the "core" secondaries: Repair and Camouflage and, of course, Sixth Sense. If you have a 300% crew and go BiA + Sixth Sense and Repair you still have 83% Repair in a 6-person crew but only 67% Repair in a 3-person.

WoW

 

agree 100%, sums it up nicely

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This is a great thread with a ton of information.   Just a couple of confirmation points.

 

I dropped vents in my KV-1 (which I plan to keep) for optics.   But, my play typically has me sitting a bit more than moving a ton, so I was thinking binocs would be better.   For a sniper sort (also working on the German line) or any "support" type tank that sits a bit to wait for an opening wouldn't binocs be superior?

 

As for crew skills, I can't figure out why I would need sixth sense in a Russian heavy.   They are front line tanks.   I get it for anything that is a little more fragile or more in need of remaining hidden, but, is it right to say for a front line tank like the KV-1 and ultimately the IS-7 that it is not nearly as important to go with sixth sense given you are pretty much spotted all game?    Or should I shut up and just run sixth? :)

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Run 6th. It gives you invaluable information, such as knowing that an enemy is near and allowing you to have info that would otherwise not be known to you.

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As for crew skills, I can't figure out why I would need sixth sense in a Russian heavy.   They are front line tanks.   I get it for anything that is a little more fragile or more in need of remaining hidden, but, is it right to say for a front line tank like the KV-1 and ultimately the IS-7 that it is not nearly as important to go with sixth sense given you are pretty much spotted all game?    Or should I shut up and just run sixth? :)

 

 

As you move around the map it's nice to know if an invisi-scout/td is proxy spotting you or not.

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new info has come to light, apparently, WG will change BIA so if one of your crew is dead, bia will stop working. This is actually reintroduced feature because when new skills and perks were being introduced BIA was supposed to have this dead crew rule in it, but it was hastily changed prior to release to work even with dead crew.

 

source http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/10/15/15-10-2013-2/#more-4313

 

Anyway, this mechanics deals IMHO a final blow to usefulness (being already on shaky legs) to BIA use on tanks, good luck bringing that radio man to life.

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new info has come to light, apparently, WG will change BIA so if one of your crew is dead, bia will stop working. This is actually reintroduced feature because when new skills and perks were being introduced BIA was supposed to have this dead crew rule in it, but it was hastily changed prior to release to work even with dead crew.

 

It seems a bit unclear to me whether this is actually a planned change or if this is just a developer incorrectly understanding their own game mechanics (i.e. - they think this is how BIA currently works).  I'd lean toward the latter.

 

Originally BIA stopped working when a crew member died, but they specifically changed it so that it would still be active even with dead crew.  Seems odd that they would go back and change that again.

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It seems a bit unclear to me whether this is actually a planned change or if this is just a developer incorrectly understanding their own game mechanics (i.e. - they think this is how BIA currently works).  I'd lean toward the latter.

 

Originally BIA stopped working when a crew member died, but they specifically changed it so that it would still be active even with dead crew.  Seems odd that they would go back and change that again.

 

- SerB states that if the situation when a killed crewmember doesn’t disable BIA is indeed so, it’s a bug (SS: as in, it is intended for BIA to stop working when one crewmember is killed), SerB is currently discussing this issue with Storm, states that BIA is a “must-have” perk possibly because of this bug. Furthermore, SerB comments on BIA thus: “It’s logical. Crew, that is close to each other and has everything trained to the point of being automatic loses one person – and all the trained procedures are gone. That’s how it was intended. But, as you can see, someone succumbed to whining and as a result, BIA became imbalanced. So much for ‘listen more to players’, yea…”

 

from FTR

 

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- SerB states that if the situation when a killed crewmember doesn’t disable BIA is indeed so, it’s a bug (SS: as in, it is intended for BIA to stop working when one crewmember is killed), SerB is currently discussing this issue with Storm, states that BIA is a “must-have” perk possibly because of this bug. Furthermore, SerB comments on BIA thus: “It’s logical. Crew, that is close to each other and has everything trained to the point of being automatic loses one person – and all the trained procedures are gone. That’s how it was intended. But, as you can see, someone succumbed to whining and as a result, BIA became imbalanced. So much for ‘listen more to players’, yea…”

 

from FTR

 

 

Yeah, just read that on FTR.  If they do change it again such that a dead crew member diables BIA, then I agree BIA will disappear from most/all of my crews.

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I'm a victim of that BiA obsession too.

 

I respec for it when I reach half of the 3rd skill on almost every tank. Once I get BiA/6thSense, I tend to just grind the crew without respecs to save gold.

 

Here's what my favorite tanks end up looking like:

 

 

Leopard 1

- BiA / 6th Sense / Recon / Camo (70%)

- BiA / Snaphshot / Repair / Camo (70%)

- BiA / Smooth Ride / Repair / Camo (70%)

- BiA / Safe Stowage / Repair / Camo (70%)

 

Obj. 140, T-62A, 121 and T110E5

- BiA / 6th Sense / Repair (>90%)

- BiA / Snaphshot / Repair (>90%)

- BiA / Smooth Ride / Repair (>90%)

- BiA / Safe Stowage / Repair (>90%)

 

IS-7

- BiA / 6th Sense / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Snaphshot / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Smooth Ride / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Safe Stowage / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Situational Awareness / Repair (90%)

 

I feel I'm approaching crew skills in a way that is far too rigid. I feel that I'm missing out on most driver skills for instance. Any suggestions if I were to do a full pass on my crews?

 

My FV 215b (183) is bound for a respec soon with the unlocking of its 3rd skill. How would you build it?

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I'm a victim of that BiA obsession too.

 

I respec for it when I reach half of the 3rd skill on almost every tank. Once I get BiA/6thSense, I tend to just grind the crew without respecs to save gold.

 

Here's what my favorite tanks end up looking like:

 

 

Leopard 1

- BiA / 6th Sense / Recon / Camo (70%)

- BiA / Snaphshot / Repair / Camo (70%)

- BiA / Smooth Ride / Repair / Camo (70%)

- Bia / Safe Stowage / Repair / Camo (70%)

 

Obj. 140, T-62A, 121 and T110E5

- BiA / 6th Sense / Repair (>90%)

- BiA / Snaphshot / Repair (>90%)

- BiA / Smooth Ride / Repair (>90%)

- Bia / Safe Stowage / Repair (>90%)

 

IS-7

- BiA / 6th Sense / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Snaphshot / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Smooth Ride / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Safe Stowage / Repair (90%)

- BiA / Situational Awareness / Repair (90%)

 

I feel I'm approaching crew skills in a way that is far too rigid. I feel that I'm missing out on most driver skills for instance. Any suggestions if I were to do a full pass on my crews?

 

My FV 215b (183) is bound for a respec soon with the unlocking of its 3rd skill. How would you build it?

 

Camo would be so, so, so much better on the Obj. 140, T-62A, and 121 than BiA. Then again if you're almost to 4th skill it might not be worth retraining as you can just grab camo soon.

 

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Camo would be so, so, so much better on the Obj. 140, T-62A, and 121 than BiA. Then again if you're almost to 4th skill it might not be worth retraining as you can just grab camo soon.

 

 

I'm going for it yeah. All three mediums are around 96%, I'll probably grind that seriously on the next x3 crew XP week-end.

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I feel I'm approaching crew skills in a way that is far too rigid. I feel that I'm missing out on most driver skills for instance. Any suggestions if I were to do a full pass on my crews?

 

 

The fact that drivers have so many nice things is one of the reasons I don't take BiA early.

 

 

I like to have at least Off Road and Clutch Braking (as well as rep and camo) at the moment on mediums (Smooth Ride has a really tiny effect even at max, and only works when you drive in a straight line, so I eventually said goodbye to it).

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(Smooth Ride has a really tiny effect even at max, and only works when you drive in a straight line, so I eventually said goodbye to it).

It is not that it only works driving in a straight line, but that it only affects the driving dispersion and not the traverse dispersion. Traverse is worse and more important, so your point still stands.

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It is not that it only works driving in a straight line, but that it only affects the driving dispersion and not the traverse dispersion. Traverse is worse and more important, so your point still stands.

 

The tooltip indicates this is not the case, do you have evidence one way or the other? I find taking 0.04 off the hull dispersion values to be useful for almost every tank...

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The tooltip indicates this is not the case, do you have evidence one way or the other? I find taking 0.04 off the hull dispersion values to be useful for almost every tank...

p5zsmFp.png

Doesn't work when rotating :/

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