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Just like in tanks, toss some money at the game. Having cards is nice. But once you're set up for arena, you can snowball gold pretty well by playing mage/druid/paladin pretty well.


I've been dabbling in HS for a bit now, and it's a pretty fun game.  It also takes most of the good parts from Magic, removes some of the cruft, and distills it in to something perhaps more random, but the actual gameplay is about as deep (Though the metgame is not nearly as deep, there's enough meat for a casual like me).


Anyone want to share their ID# for some friendly battles sometime?

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meh most of the time the guy dies in 2 opponent turns - sometimes 1 if I don't draw it super early.


With the nerf bat that hit yesterday, 2 opponent turns is now an expected 0.5 cards from pagle as opposed to 1.


I replaced him with loot hoarder on most decks, tho some I just put something else that synergized with the deck

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I see that they nerfed it and tinkmaster. I had just bought both and.. yeah. Just disenchanted them myself.

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the very next match after that post i get fucked over by a extremely specific counter with a card that I have never seen in casual ever (tbk) destroying a play I've never made before


yay rng


yeah i know arena thats swell and all but I'm a poorfag and not good enough to keep arena runs going, I dont want to just play one arena run and call it quits for the day. I wish constructed wasn't so garbage, esp in these casual/low ranks where rush decks are stupid common. rng is part of the genre, nothing hearth can do to fix that, but shitty gameplay is shitty no matter how you look at it.

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Online card games kindof defeats the purpose of cardgames for me, namely using animu card sleeves.  Legit the only reason I do MTG drafts is to use muh sexy Chinatsu sleeves, then lolspam red (somehow winning packs?).  

So I heard shaman/mage best for arena?  I only did it once, tried rogue, failed pretty hard, cause spamming the pleasure taunt pleases me.  Rogue doesn't seem that great though, or maybe I'm just noob/baddie.

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the very next match after that post i get fucked over by a extremely specific counter with a card that I have never seen in casual ever (tbk) destroying a play I've never made before


yay rng


yeah i know arena thats swell and all but I'm a poorfag and not good enough to keep arena runs going, I dont want to just play one arena run and call it quits for the day. I wish constructed wasn't so garbage, esp in these casual/low ranks where rush decks are stupid common. rng is part of the genre, nothing hearth can do to fix that, but shitty gameplay is shitty no matter how you look at it.


ya at the lower-tier ranks, you see a lot of aggro. This is mostly because of 2 things:

- aggro is in general a cheaper deck to build, dust-wise

- aggro games usually go faster. In ranked up to rank5, you move up the ladder given a 50% winrate - because of streak bonuses.



If you're at that rank in ladder play, it might be good to play something like watcher druid. Shaman is good against all kinds of aggro too, except hunter.


Like seriously, if you can sunfury/argus a watcher, it screws over aggro so hard. Not to mention stuff like druid of the claw. Basically, taunt > aggro usually. And since they run a lot of small minions, you can just swipe them later for free board clear xD.

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how do you decide when to attack vs hunter as control warrior? Do you just ignore traps and bait them out by attacking with armorsmiths/acolytes?


Or do you just never attack until you either:

- 3 legendaries out and can pretty much alextrasza -> OTK?

- just ragnaros him to death



I've tried this and it's usually semi-hard to do, because you have to either predict freezing traps and dodge hunter's mark. But if you play too many mid-tier things, you risk flooding your board too much and losing to UTH/leeroy/timberwolf/buzzer stuff.



Thing is, I find control warr not TOO good against hunter because of your lack of taunt. It's just so much easier to defend yourself against UTH by playing watcher druid

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Just started playing a few days ago. Seems like I will gravitate towards arena play rather than chasing the meta wild $/gold grinding. Went 0/3 on my free arena entrance playing a Hunter trying for beast synergy. Then I actually spent 5 minutes reading an arena guide and understanding why that was a really bad choice...

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Uninstalled the game a while ago, huntards ruining it. Came back because I saw hounds were nerfed, huntards are still all over. Oh well.


Also, I noticed something - the longer this game is out, the better the average deck is. It might be the ladder reset, but even in lowtier ranked and casual I see legendaries constantly. This is a big problem, because in Hearthstone legendaries are almost always better than any of the other cards in that class. I.e Druid gets a 8/8 drop for 8 mana... but if you get Gruul, you have a 8/8 for 8 that grows by 1/1 every turn. Usually. Some are garbage, and some are the better forms of trash cards and are thus still trash. Regardless, constantly having to deal with stuff like Rag and Cairne is really goddamn frustrating when the RNG hasn't blessed you with uniques of your own.


Along with this, you see a lot more epics and such. I've encountered more Pyroblast in casual in the last 4 days than I've seen in my entire pre-uninstall Hearth time. Its giving me a real tough time, especially with decks that just don't have a lot of removal (druid, shaman).

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Been playing Hearthstone for the past month or so.  Finally got Legend tonight, which really angered me unnecessarily.  I was crushing MTG back when most people here were toddlers and I couldn't hit legend to save my life.  Other long-time MTG players were saying "OMG SO EZ", etc.  Stuck at rank 5 forever, then breezed onward in an evening.


One thing that I really like about Hearthstone over MTG is how much thought goes into your opponents' hand.  Like, if you don't know exactly what plays they can make on the next turn... it's over for you.  In MTG my success came from maximizing my decks' consistency, which has zero place in Hearthstone.  If a certain card crushes you, play like he has it: because he always has it.  In MTG it was usually possible to just ride the odds he didn't have it.


Legend - decklist (zoolock)


The only unusual choices in the deck are Power Overwhelming and Leper Gnome.  Notable absences are: Elvish Archer and Harvest Golem.  1 toughness dudes are downright terrible due to Rogue/Druid/Mage hero abilities, so the Leper Gnome is only 90% useless rather than completely useless like every other 1 drop (Hello Elvish Archer!).  It'll get replaced by the 2/3 for 1 when I unlock that part of Naxx.  Harvest Golem is a fine card, but it's sloooooow.  With the Haunted Creeper and Nerubian Egg, which are both necessary as AoE protection, the deck is just painfully slow when adding Harvest Golem to the mix.  Power Overwhelming is the MVP.  It gives the deck the ability to burst opponents down from <15 every game.  The problem with Soulfire and Doomguard is that they sit in your hand and when playing one you'll discard the other.  This leaves the deck short on finishing power, which PO shores up.


I was stuck at rank 5 because I was butchering the play of 3 cards: Abusive Sargent, Dire Wolf, and Defender of Argus.  In general, buffing your minions to deal more non-lethal damage to your opponent is a mistake.  Save the buffs to trade up with your creatures.  Example: instead of throwing down Sargent and sending to your opponents' face for X+2, it's better to keep him in your hand so you can trade a little dude for a big dude.  Ditto with the other two.  If you don't have non-buffing minions to play, tap.


The metagame as of Naxx week 2: Zoolock or GTFO.  The Druid decks have moved to a weird token version from zoo-killing Big Taunt or mid-range and I'm not sure why.  Handlock, Miracle, and backspace rogue have all but disappeared.  Everyone is playing the Haunted Creeper and Eggs in their decks, which makes Handlock/Miracle board clears so much worse.  Even Priest/Paladin decks with 6-8 board clear effects can't keep up, and Zoolock beats all other aggro decks.  This meta is fine with me, as playing hordes of Miracle rogues was infuriating: hue hue hue lay down Gadgetstan Auctioneer on turn 7 and play my entire deck hue hue have 22 damage very balance.  Fuck that broken shit.

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Trying your deck out, coming from the ol' zoo deck w/harvest, shieldbearers, etc.


I do like it more when it works, but the problem is that so often I've got three or four buff creatures (abusive serg, shattered sun, wolf, argus) that are absolute trash to play on an empty board. Whether I play these or not I lose board control, and of course losing board control as zoo is pretty much GG.


I did make a mistake and left out the lepers, I'll see if that helps.


edit: 6 games in and have lost all but one match :[

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That time i got Van Queef 3 times in a row from 3 different packs on different days. Only Legendary i've ever gotten too.

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Trying your deck out, coming from the ol' zoo deck w/harvest, shieldbearers, etc.


I do like it more when it works, but the problem is that so often I've got three or four buff creatures (abusive serg, shattered sun, wolf, argus) that are absolute trash to play on an empty board. Whether I play these or not I lose board control, and of course losing board control as zoo is pretty much GG.


I did make a mistake and left out the lepers, I'll see if that helps.


edit: 6 games in and have lost all but one match :[


Hm... that seems odd.


There are clunky draws for sure, but proper mulligans should help most of that.  Most people make fun of the zoo mulligan strategy: pitch everything for more 1 cast cost minions.  You want to lead with Flame Imp / Argent Squire / Voidwalker every game if you're on the play.  If you have one of those guys, feel free to keep a 2 and 3 drop to curve out.  If you have the coin, you can keep a hand of 2-2-3 cost dudes but it's still generally preferable to coin out two 1 cost guys than coin out a 2 cost guy that will 100% eat removal.


What rank?  Sometimes it gets a little weird at 10+ because people are playing some random stuff. 

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Started at 10, down to 13 now.


Usually what happens is that sometime before turn 4 I have a turn where I have literally nothing playable in my hand. I might have a 1 drop and a 2 drop, but then I have nothing for 3. Or 3s and 4s, but no 1 or 2s. Or I'll just have a shitton of buffs, like I said. On that one turn, I lose all my tempo and the opponent always nabs board control. If I'm lucky enough to have a drop for every turn, things go much better - but almost every game has not turned out that way.

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This season I've been playing Miracle Rogue.  Playing hyped's list.  I'll make legend with it "eventually".  More on that in a second.


After ~100 games of getting smashed in the face because playing this deck is stupidly difficult (dropped from 12 to 18!), it finally "clicked".  I zoomed up to rank 6 today, where I will let it sit for awhile.  The reasoning?  There's no one to play!


I wondered how long it took people to reach Legend each season.  Since previous seasons' legend players started off at rank 16, they already have a head-start on the competition.  However, they also have to face other legend players right from the get-go.  If there's no one to beat above you, then the matchmaker has to look for opponents below your MMR (matchmaking rating, each player has a hidden ELO rating.  Starcraft 2 has the same thing).  You can tell when your MMR changes because your opponents will change.  If you're on a hot streak, then you'll get players from higher ranks.  If you're going 50/50, you'll be faced against same rank players.  Etc.  However, it will not broach 1 tier difference unless you are really sucking or owning.  At the tail end of last season I was trying out some stupid decks and went 2-18 one stretch.  The funny part is that it wouldn't kick me out of Legend no matter how bad I was doing.  It just stuck me against rank 4-5 players but wouldn't go lower.  It seems there's not quite as much of a rating delta once you reach legend.


When I beat the streamer Kripp today, I realized that it's dumb to keep playing until the brackets spread out a bit.  Because right now, the game will only pair me against the elite.  I'm not that into hearthstone where I want to fight dark purples for epeen rights.


EZ Miracle Rogue Guide


Miracle is a very difficult deck to play, but it's also the best deck in the format right now (circa 3 week of Naxx).  It has one really bad matchup (backspace rogue) that can't exist in the metagame because there's infinite Zoolock running around.  While Zoo was greatly improved by Naxx (see my post above), it only served to push out the bad Miracle players.  The upside of the deck is that there's really no counter to it.  Blizz developers said Loatheb was intended to kill Miracle... only it works better in Miracle than in any other deck.  Since Blizz wants to release new cards to curb OP'ness rather than nerf anything, it'll be months before another "miracle killer" arrives.


The basics: read this.


Mulligans vs: 

  • Shaman / Priest / Paladin / Warrior / Druid: mulligan for Auctioneer.  If you have Auctioneer, keep or mulligan for backstabs.  If you have the coin, keep SI:7/VanCleef if an Auctioneer is already in hand.
  • Warlock / Hunter / Rogue / Mage: mulligan for Backstab.  Keep SI:7, VanCleef if you have coin.

Yes you have to mulligan for aggro even if it ends up being a control deck.  Example, Zoolock vs Handlock or backspace vs Miracle.  Auctioneer is too slow in the aggro matchups to keep in the opener.


There are two basic types of games with Miracle Rogue: Combo games and Face games


Decks that can't pressure you early will be won by big Auctioneer combos.  Aggro decks are too fast to try for a combo, and they will be won by using random combo pieces to try and clumsily win the game.


Combo games - Relax, you have time


The biggest thing to keep in mind when playing against Shaman / Priest / Paladin / Warrior decks is that they can't kill you before turn 10.  So don't hurry, and don't stress out that they landed a 5/5 or bigger dude when you're at 20+ life.  If you have to invest a bunch of resources just to kill one dude, just Sap him or leave him be: it's not worth it.  A great example is Ragnaros, who I feel is one of the very worst legendary cards but everyone plays him.  He'll deal 8 damage to something, at which time you Sap him, flood the board with minions, combo, or win outright.  Rag isn't worth killing because instead of investing 3 cards in killing it you can play dudes that kill your opponent while Rag slowly kills them.  Usually Rag hits your face and takes you from 25 to 17 or something, which is a huge win for you if you have any kind of board.

  • When to combo: turn 7 or 8, earlier if have Conceal so you can get the next turns' full mana
  • Preparing the combo: plan in advance to have a fresh dagger for Deadly Poison mid-combo.  Before the combo turn, try to deal with the opponents' board using minions and dagger to to save spells for the combo.
  • How to combo: Backstab first, then Preparation (preferably on Fan of Knives or Shiv), then use the spells to clear the opponents board of scary minions or set up for lethal next turn.  Rarely use Shadowstep during combo or to save the Auctioneer, but keep it open as an option.  Using the 0 mana spells first gives you maximum flexibility and chances to draw into other cheap spells like more Backstabs and Preps.  It's not uncommon to plow through 10 cards and have the opponent without a board and you have lethal next turn.
  • Post combo - life after Auctioneer: the Auctioneer won't make it around to your next turn unless the opponent is super screwed or has lethal on you.  That's OK!  He generally spent his entire turn taking out the goblin and then trying to cobble together some semblance of board presence.  If you don't have lethal, spam the board with dudes and make him come up with answers to Loatheb, VanCleef, some 3/3's, and you punching in with Deadly Poison.  Sometimes the opponent does manage to make it a little farther, at which time Leeroy / Sap / Shadowstep puts them out of their misery.

Tips and tricks for combo games:

  • Don't attack the enemy with your default dagger unless you will immediately refresh or know the next turn you'll have time.  Games with Miracle are short, and the mana investment of constant refreshes isn't worth it.
  • Cycle Shiv / Fan of Knives to find more Backstabs / Preparations / Conceal before you combo.  This is assuming you have time and won't need those pieces later.
  • Shadowstepping Loatheb falls under "too cute".  Each ShS usage decreases your max one turn damage by 6, and the opponent will just spam the board with minions when they can't cast spells.  I'm not saying it never works, but I've certainly missed lethal because I was bouncing Loatheb.
  • Be patient: sometimes you won't get the Auctioneer and be tempted to burn through spells.  Generally don't.  Refresh your dagger, pass the turn, and hope to draw him next turn.
  • Don't be afraid to throw out SI:7/Farseer/Loetheb/VanCleef as random vanilla minions just to get some board presence.  It saves spells for the combo, makes your opponent spend mana, and deals with large minions easier if you can attack + spell them.
  • Thalnos will often be used just to combo VanCleef / SI:7 as you won't need him for Fan of Knives / Blade Flurry boosts
  • Sometimes the combo will stop early because you don't have enough mana or targets for the other spells.  It can be OK to Shadowstep the Auctioneer and try again next turn if your hand contains a lot of spells and few minions.  If you are holding 2+ other minions in hand, it's often best to let the Auctioneer meet his fate and gain board presence in that time.
  • If you haven't seen an Auctioneer in the first 15 cards even after you mulliganed everything for him, chalk that up to RNG and don't stress.  Happens to everyone.

Face Race games


In these matchups (Zoolock / Hunter / backspace Rogue / Mage), there's not time to Auctioneer combo.  Turn 7 is generally the time full-fledged Auctioneer combos happen, but these games will typically end on turn 7.  Awkward.  So throw that dude back if he's in your opener, and let's stab the opponent for 1 damage at a time!


In the mulligan section, I mentioned that Backstab / SI:7 / VanCleef was what you were looking for.  These cards help counteract the early board presence of your opponent without you taking damage from daggering them.  You will still get to use the dagger quite a bit, but stabbing every Leper Gnome is going to get you too low on life very quickly.


The deck goes from being a high-powered combo machine capable of drawing every card by turn 7, to a mismatched abomination of garbage.  You're going to get hands like Conceal / Preparation / Blade Flurry and question the existence of god.  The only things in our favor at this point: the dagger and low casting costs of the cards.  So Miracle Rogue can empty its' hand quickly to establish board presence or wipe the opponents' board.  Cards like Backstab and Preparation avoid mana requirements while SI:7 and Deadly Poison are great 2 for 1's against aggro.


Tips and tricks for aggro games:

  • Try to play minions and free spells to get a quick lead in the game.  Backstab + SI:7/VanCleef, and Preparation + minion are great turns to have.
  • Thalnos / Fan of Knives is a great board wipe to keep in mind
  • Azure Drake + Preparation + Spell is the best turn 5 you can have against an aggro deck
  • Leeroy and Shadowstep makes your deck actually faster than most aggro decks... but less consistent as well.  Don't be afraid to race if you can set up lethal next turn
  • Shadowstep should generally be used on SI:7 / Farseer rather than saved for Leeroy
  • If there's a minion that takes more than 2 spells to deal with, that's called "Sap target".  No Sap?  Wait for Auctioneer.  Plowing your hand into a Savanna Highmane loses you the game.

Minions you should completely ignore 90% of the time

  • Argent Squire
  • Haunted Creeper
  • Harvest Golem
  • Nerubian Egg

The above are just too hard to kill.  The good part is that they do little to no damage, so ignoring them is correct play.  If they get beefed up with things like Defender of Argus or Houndmaster, then sapping them is usually best because they are even harder to kill and it's still not worth it.  These creatures are the most frequent recipients of Backstab when comboing if nothing better is around.


Minions to kill only if you can one-shot them

  • Northshire Cleric
  • Armorsmith
  • Acolyte of Pain

These guys typically make up a core part of the opponents' game plan, but hitting them is kinda what the opponent wants you to do.  They are great cards but take mana and time to work if you don't help kill them.




Assassin's Blade: Priest / Warrior / Paladin decks know they can't kill you before you combo, so they do something else: massive lifegain.  When learning the deck, I'd end up out of cards and them still at 30 life because the deck just isn't capable of dealing more than ~50 points of damage.  There will be some warriors you come up against that literally Armor Up from turn 2 onward and dare you to kill them through 20+ armor.  While possible with the right draws, it's not consistent.  Enter the Assassin's Blade.  Save one or both Deadly Poisons for the blade and just pound in for 5-7 with your hero every turn.  One poison on the blade is worth 20 damage over the lifespan, which is more than enough help when considering the warrior is doing nothing but armoring so there will be less resistance.


Edwin VanCleef: Generally make him a 4/4 or 6/6.  The very instant you make him 8/8+ is when you'll see Big Game Hunter.  He's apparently in every deck.  VanCleef is still amazing as a cheap 4/4 with the coin on turn 2 or as a huge dude right after a combo when you want them to spend mana answering your dudes.


Gnomish Inventor: Miracle has a "dead" turn 4 where there's very little to play or do, and this fills the gap.  I've also toyed with Anubar Ambusher here, but it wasn't significantly better.


Azure Drake: one is the correct number rather than 2 because the games just don't go that long.  The lone drake is still nice for longer games when the enhanced spellpower gives added reach to board wipes or direct damage.

Zero Cold Bloods or Sinister Strikes: Gnomish Inventor and Loatheb took these spots, and it was to reduce dead draws.  Throwing down minions in the early game or after an Auctioneer combo is better than a slightly larger Leeroy combo.




I pulled these numbers out of my bum.

  • Zoolock - 65/35 for Miracle - Backstab and SI:7 take all the wind out of their sails.  Their early damage dealers have 2 toughness, which die to everything in the Miracle deck.  They'll throw down a ton of deathrattle dudes and then only be able to attack for 6 per turn while you send back 10+ or just lethal them.  Doomguards and Power Overwhelming can and will blow you out sometimes, but it's an uphill fight for them.
  • Handlock - 40/60 for Handlock - Everyone says this is one of the hardest matchups for Miracle, but I'm not convinced.  Handlock allows you to get them to 14 and then combo.  After the combo it's pretty easy to just sap one taunt, burn the other, and send for an incredibly easy 14 damage.  If they stream out giants starting from turn 4, the game is hard.  The difficultly is the necessity to mulligan for Zoo: throwing back the Auctioneer.  If you knew it was handlock rather than Zoo, it'd be 60/40 for Miracle IMO.
  • Paladin / Priest - 85/15 for Miracle - Free wins for sure.  Their only hope is that you can't deal enough damage or can't find an Auctioneer (welp).  Priest puts slightly more obstacles in the way, but Paladin doesn't even pretend that they can kill you.  Facing these two is winrate padding.  
  • Warrior - 75/25 for Miracle - Warriors are slightly better than Priest/Paladin decks because armor sticks around so they can increase their total life.  They also have some pretty good late game options such as Gorehowl + Upgrade or Grommash + Whirlwind.  They still can't stop you from drawing 20 cards, so there's that.
  • Backspace Rogue - 25/75 for Backspace - They basically have the burst of Leeroy/Shadowstep that you do, and add Arcane Golems and Leper Gnomes to that.  It's an insane deck with a consistent kill.  Thank god it gets cleveland steamer'ed by Zoo, forcing it out of the metagame.
  • Hunter - 80/20 for Miracle - They have one good minion: houndmaster.  Everything the hunter has dies to everything in the Miracle deck so hard, that I wonder how Face Hunter still exists.
  • Ramp Druid - 60/40 for Miracle - They can't put pressure on you before the combo, but they certainly can take advantage of the situation if you don't find Auctioneer in time.
  • Token Druid - 50/50 - With a combo that they can throw down 14 damage from an empty board on turn 9 and minions that are highly damage resistant, Token Druid is a pretty even matchup with Miracle.  They can luck into "I Win" draws with some frequency, and their combo pieces are always relevant to non-combo situations.


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