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Crusader Appreciation Thread?

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7 minutes ago, lt_lolcat said:

On the pc, you either move your crew to a new tank when you buy it or you buy a new crew for it.  You usually move the crew up when you unlock a new tank so they continue to gain experience.  Most tank lines go all the way to tier 8 for light tanks.  The UK light tank only goes up to the tier 5 Crusader though which is unfortunate.  I hope that one day there will be a complete light tank line for the British. 

I think I read it that in one of the books I bought about the game.   It works differently in the Blitz version, as do many things (no radio for example).   There appears to be a crew for each tank but once a crew reaches 100% a message pops up to tell you that crew can now train other skills for use on all tanks of that type, or something like that.   I get the impression the PC game is way more deep than Blitz and look forward one day to giving it a whirl but I have much to learn before doing that. 

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Wow!   Had an awesome series of games after reading this thread yesterday.   Sniping, flanking and surviving to the late stage to salvage a draw or finish off higher tiers with low HP.  Avoiding toe to toe fighting/peekaboo unless obligatory.  That was very cool.   Just shy of 80% in 20 games (my overall rate is 44%) with two draws from lost positions.   I'm sure that will come down but it was really fun.   I also found a neat film on You Tube about the Crusader in WoT which I will finish watching tonight.   

So thanks.   I learned a lot here yesterday in about three posts.

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16 hours ago, Bobi_Kreeg said:

Why not slow? KV and AT2 are beasts. They carry tier 5 games with zero effort.

I assume AT2 has a low-ish skill celling like most slow tanks do. Or does that not apply to t5 retard meta?

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20 hours ago, hazzgar said:

I assume AT2 has a low-ish skill celling like most slow tanks do. Or does that not apply to t5 retard meta?

Well...unicums get almost 70% WR with AT 2 while scrubs are barely 50%...while the tank has bad mobility and armor that takes 0 brain to use, you must hit weakspots and use plenty of apcr...which is very expensive in AT2...giving very low pen on 6 pdr (110), and 2,400 silver for 75 dmg, but 180 penn....you can shoot about 2500 dpm...or 80 k credits per minute...sometimes you can not sustain for long if you are a scrub...

Mind you, a lot of ppl that usually play higher tiers, have premium acc mostly, but no tier 8 prems come to tier 5-6 to earn money in randoms...so most better players just grind the AT 2 and come back to that tier in something more mobile...like KV-1/O-I exp/M4/T-34/T67, i.e. dedicated seal clubber/money grinder...scrubs just grind it and never come back. Very easy tank to farm purple...almost like ELC. Just press 2.

Of course, there will be plenty of soft targets...but they can all run away from you, so you end up head butting with KVs, T150s and japs...soft fast tanks can win battles by capping/uncaping, spotting or supporting faling flanks...AT 2 can do none of it...it is just a pew pew fortress...you must win by committing to a flank to dismantle it, meaning you kill 2 heavies same tier or one higher tier and win 65%. I wonder if the O-I swarm had an impact on AT 2 WR...since they need at most 2 shots to kill you without aiming, and you need 13-14 to kill them...

P.S. played AT-2 on my bro acc 1.5 y ago...gun was great pew pew from hell, similar to russian 57 mm (same guns in fact, both are 6pd)...both have great dpm and acc, russian have a bit better pen and alpha on both shells, and better acc, but much worse aimtime, so they are effectively the same.

He ended up selling the AT-2 and keeping T67 to farm pubbie tears. Much easier on credits.

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Blues and up will easily dismantle an AT2 in 1v1. But, like grandmaster Carbon once said, unicums are predictable. It means you can easily predict where they will go based on their tank and the map you're playing. So in order to win you need to pick another flank, clean it as fast as possible while shielding your pubs on that lane and face the uniscum later, with an advantage in numbers. Same tactics work against OI tanks, if you cant deal with them: avoid their lane(s).

Pubbies suck in AT because they are not aggresive enough or they pick flanks where they are not likely to find enough enemy tanks they can farm... and they end up being useless for 10 minutes.

Same tactics roughly apply to any tank.

The Crusader has one obvious advantage against an AT: it's fast. If you pick a wrong flank, or if you see a tier 7 heading your way you can, and you should, GTFO.

Run+forrest+run_e77c96_4620665.jpg

But Crusader also has no armor which makes it unable to: 1) brute force your way through a swarm of red meat FAST and 2) shield your allies by absorbing fire. Both of which are the easiest ways to win games since WG trashed camo-vision meta.

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3 hours ago, Bobi_Kreeg said:

Blues and up will easily dismantle an AT2 in 1v1. But, like grandmaster Carbon once said, unicums are predictable. It means you can easily predict where they will go based on their tank and the map you're playing. So in order to win you need to pick another flank, clean it as fast as possible while shielding your pubs on that lane and face the uniscum later, with an advantage in numbers. Same tactics work against OI tanks, if you cant deal with them: avoid their lane(s).

Pubbies suck in AT because they are not aggresive enough or they pick flanks where they are not likely to find enough enemy tanks they can farm... and they end up being useless for 10 minutes.

Same tactics roughly apply to any tank.

The Crusader has one obvious advantage against an AT: it's fast. If you pick a wrong flank, or if you see a tier 7 heading your way you can, and you should, GTFO.

Run+forrest+run_e77c96_4620665.jpg

But Crusader also has no armor which makes it unable to: 1) brute force your way through a swarm of red meat FAST and 2) shield your allies by absorbing fire. Both of which are the easiest ways to win games since WG trashed camo-vision meta.

 

I agee but all t5 meds are soft. On the other hand players have such bad crews t5 is much more vision oriented than higher triers. The crusader has good enough dpm to mow through the enemy fast. I know it's not OI-Exp OP but it still carries surprisingly well given the decent gun, dpm, pen combo with decent speed.

 

 

As for At-2 is the 70% a checked fact? Do we have player wr to tank wr graphs? Since I doubt it doesn't top out above a certain %.

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Except the Russian bias T-34. MUCH more accurate gun, better alpha (just 10 more, but still, it fires the same speed), and enough armor to make 105 mm derps almost impossible to penetrate with HE, and HEAT only close range and aimed good...even then dicey if you diamond angle .

Also, despite both tanks having Christie suspension, Russian one is considerable more trollish...and side armor can bounce even 122 mm shells in sidescrape...if enemies are dumb enough. Add better top speed and traverse values...just to make sure you are playing a russian tank. Sure, 8 vs 12 gun depression Crusader is better...that is the only better stat. But on city maps T-34 turret harder to hit in hulldown beyond 100 m...

T-34 also rams better.

T-34-85 is a great tank...closely tied with Cromwell, but Crommie is slightly better...best med in tier.

I kept T-34 and Crommie...best meds in each tier. I have one for each tier from 4-10...except tier 7, all are cancer (and almost all in 8, but there is Obj 416).

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It may be me but I'm currently grinding both and I don't feel to notice the bouncy advantage of the t-34

Also if you are getting derp penned your awareness is wrong as in most cases derps miss.

I agre t-34 is slightly better but only slightly (The vr and gun dep mean a lot on lower triers)

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You are wrong regarding the pz 4 armor. It is 80 mm flat ufp and 50 mm turret...

While 34 has same effective  ufp and nice sides that if angled and wiggled at the same time produce a lot of ricochet and track eat shots.  Pz4 armor is flat and that was bad design IRL, and is bad in wot. 34 can reverse sidescrape all the guns you will see...and turret is the smallest in  tier(2 man turret)... Dubbing as "armor" try to hit it from 200 m...while it mows you down with 0.34…..Sherman is OK hull down, it is not the armor thickness that is the problem, it is the size. Pubbies in low tiers shoot badly...being small pays off.Overall,  34 has best armor efe for me...maybe because it gets shelled at longer ranges...P.s. sometimes you must  take a deep hit. Ever heard of uncappin g?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, Crusader is worse than those 3 tanks abowe. If you wanna epic hulldown go M4. It also have 2 guns better than any on Crusader. Even pz 4 has the same gun depression in front as crus...34>m4>pz

 

 

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11 hours ago, Felicius said:

You are wrong regarding the pz 4 armor. It is 80 mm flat ufp and 50 mm turret...

While 34 has same effective  ufp and nice sides that if angled and wiggled at the same time produce a lot of ricochet and track eat shots.  Pz4 armor is flat and that was bad design IRL, and is bad in wot. 34 can reverse sidescrape all the guns you will see...and turret is the smallest in  tier(2 man turret)... Dubbing as "armor" try to hit it from 200 m...while it mows you down with 0.34…..Sherman is OK hull down, it is not the armor thickness that is the problem, it is the size. Pubbies in low tiers shoot badly...being small pays off.Overall,  34 has best armor efe for me...maybe because it gets shelled at longer ranges...P.s. sometimes you must  take a deep hit. Ever heard of uncappin g?

 

 

 

 

Also, Crusader is worse than those 3 tanks abowe. If you wanna epic hulldown go M4. It also have 2 guns better than any on Crusader. Even pz 4 has the same gun depression in front as crus...34>m4>pz

 

 

M4 is not good hull down. Everything pens the turret.

 

Also if you compare the tanks M4 has really bad DPM with the M1A1. Only the t34 and Crusader have over 2000 dpm. M4 has 1500 acording to tanks.gg and pz4 has 1700 while Crusader has 2100 vs 2300 on the t34. 

 

Crusader also has the smallest gun bloom after firing (smaller than t34) which helps with putting out constant fire and using the dpm. 

 

Even though it has a lowish top speed it has the best terrain resistances and hp/t so it's super mobile. while the m4 and pziv are slow. Add the best camo and 2nd best vr in class and I don't see how can you rate the Crusader below the m4 and the PZIV. 

 

The stats on the crusader would not matter in higher triers but in t5 the tank stomps where a ton of the enemies are slower, more blind and have crap dpm.

 

For me the ranking goes 1. t34, 2. crusader 3. PZIV and 4 m4.

 

PS. There are gaps in your reasoning where you say the main advantage for t34 hull down is the small turret and then you say the great gun dep on the crusader isn't an advantage (when it also alows you to make yourself a smaller target)

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You are quite right...but Crusader is not so accurate/high pen to ide Hull down long range as t-34...and has a rather large turret compared to t-34. So, for hulldown i would still prefer m4...crus has good hilldown but bad gun to make use of it.

M4 dpm ...alpha is great on derp...and even m1a1 has Nice alpha...i would make peekaboo with both guns...never go knife fighting with m4...atrocious tier3 DPM.

Overall, I wouldrate m4 higher than crusader. You said so too...bad against higher tiers... While m4 is Better due to higher wr, derp and gun depression sometimes allow you to outsmart even higher tier heavies. 34 BC lol DPM and apcr. Bloom is atrocius... I do not use a rammer...and even then i use apcr and aim cente mass instead of weakspots, unless i can permatrack target and kill it unspotted, or circle it to death.

Actually, it is the derpiness of non derp gun on m4 that drives you to use derp. 0.43 is bad,...0.55 is not that worse.

Crusader is a not so fast tank without great DPM,alpha, armor or ACC, wr standard of the tier camo

not above average for meds. . Even not so comfy as USA meds.i routinely carry in tier 7 in t34 with high calibre and/or top gun, about 66% wr all solo, and I am a scrub. M4 also same wr, but less dmg, more spot/assist by tracking when bottom tier. Best med when top tier if you pres 2, before o-i exp.

 

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Felicius said:

You are quite right...but Crusader is not so accurate/high pen to ide Hull down long range as t-34...and has a rather large turret compared to t-34. So, for hulldown i would still prefer m4...crus has good hilldown but bad gun to make use of it.

M4 dpm ...alpha is great on derp...and even m1a1 has Nice alpha...i would make peekaboo with both guns...never go knife fighting with m4...atrocious tier3 DPM.

Overall, I wouldrate m4 higher than crusader. You said so too...bad against higher tiers... While m4 is Better due to higher wr, derp and gun depression sometimes allow you to outsmart even higher tier heavies. 34 BC lol DPM and apcr. Bloom is atrocius... I do not use a rammer...and even then i use apcr and aim cente mass instead of weakspots, unless i can permatrack target and kill it unspotted, or circle it to death.

Actually, it is the derpiness of non derp gun on m4 that drives you to use derp. 0.43 is bad,...0.55 is not that worse.

Crusader is a not so fast tank without great DPM,alpha, armor or ACC, wr standard of the tier camo

not above average for meds. . Even not so comfy as USA meds.i routinely carry in tier 7 in t34 with high calibre and/or top gun, about 66% wr all solo, and I am a scrub. M4 also same wr, but less dmg, more spot/assist by tracking when bottom tier. Best med when top tier if you pres 2, before o-i exp.

 

 

 

 

 

Sherman III shits all over the M4 Sherman, both armed with either M1A1 or especially the 6 pounder. Unless both use the derp, the M4 shouldn't even be considered. Crusader may seem slow on paper, but it has that funny perk of the brits: It reaches top speed almost instantly and it's going to keep it's speed even over the worst terrain features. Besides that, 44 km/h isn't really that much worse than the 48 of the Shermans, especially since they will simply not be able to keep their speed over slightly rough terrain.

And to the scrub that said, that the T34's turret is so wonderful? Check the models. The Crusader's turret is barely two thirds the height of the T34's and both are equally wide on their widest point, with the Crusader's getting much narrower towards the top. Gun to highest point of turret is the same for both. Of course the T34 is both faster and has better DPM and armor, but where the T34 is already stealthy, the Crusader reaches ninja-levels of concealment and keeps it on the move, which is the advantage you gain over the T34, plus you've got a much lower profile overall. Also: Premium ammo doesn't negate camouflage.

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Never even thought about Brit Sherman. Regarding Crus, everybody has a taste...I hate pew pew guns with bad accuracy. Russian bias, since 57 mm is basically a 6 pnd. 10 dmg less a pop too, lol. In the end, good crews are hard to come by...and Crommie is tier for tier much better... And fastbois. P.S. I checked, turret is rly smaller...I guess ppl just shoot bad or drive inaccurate tanks, I never miss Crusader turret, but they miss mine plenty.  0.34 vs 0.41 bitches!

 

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Crusader is basically just a T67 with some more hitpoints that trades alpha for dpm.  It's basically a turreted TD in the same vein as the Cromwell/Challenger/Charioteer

But the T-34 does a better job than all of them, the 57mm is the best turreted gun in the entire tier, high accuracy, high dpm, and its better protected against hull hits at long range due to its angle,  Even the Wolverine isn't as accurate or has as good DPM. And if something happens to corner you, you can bounce some random shots and out DPM anything that is in front of you.

So yeah T-34 is the best turreted TD at tier 5.

 

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5 hours ago, 21Blackjack said:

 

The T-34 is goddamn ridiculous, and my favorite tier V bar none (maybe the Chaffee). T-34 w/ vents and rammer gets 2,627 DPM... without BIA, at tier V (and has dank 180 pen APCR). I think my best T-34 game was nearly 2.5k damage in a tier VII match.

Crusader with same setup gets 2,423 DPM, which is still nice but the gun handling is terrible for a pewpew, I'd love to see the aim time buffed (currently 2.3s because WG hates the brits). T-34 doesn't aim too well either but you can afford to get in closer with it. I've been playing the crusader a lot and it hasn't clicked with me yet (44% WR...). The camo and -12 (to the sides) depression is nice but this still isn't competitive with the T-34, which gets better alpha, DPM, armor (tons of troll bounces in same-tier games), and speed. Crusader is slow.

I don't think I have the necessary battle-reading skills yet to position myself where I need to be and reposition as needed while still staying in camo. A spotted Crusader is usually dead, I've found. The lousy top speed means you need to really be on top of flexing as needed since it takes time. Effective DPM is low at range, too, thanks to bad aiming stats + low alpha. Still, keeping the thing for a while since it's one of my favorite tanks historically, love how the little bastard looks.

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2 hours ago, Antimeridian said:

The T-34 is goddamn ridiculous, and my favorite tier V bar none (maybe the Chaffee). T-34 w/ vents and rammer gets 2,627 DPM... without BIA, at tier V (and has dank 180 pen APCR). I think my best T-34 game was nearly 2.5k damage in a tier VII match.

Crusader with same setup gets 2,423 DPM, which is still nice but the gun handling is terrible for a pewpew, I'd love to see the aim time buffed (currently 2.3s because WG hates the brits). T-34 doesn't aim too well either but you can afford to get in closer with it. I've been playing the crusader a lot and it hasn't clicked with me yet (44% WR...). The camo and -12 (to the sides) depression is nice but this still isn't competitive with the T-34, which gets better alpha, DPM, armor (tons of troll bounces in same-tier games), and speed. Crusader is slow.

I don't think I have the necessary battle-reading skills yet to position myself where I need to be and reposition as needed while still staying in camo. A spotted Crusader is usually dead, I've found. The lousy top speed means you need to really be on top of flexing as needed since it takes time. Effective DPM is low at range, too, thanks to bad aiming stats + low alpha. Still, keeping the thing for a while since it's one of my favorite tanks historically, love how the little bastard looks.

Back in the old days the Crusader could invisi-TD carry a game.  Now its just extremely risky with nerfed camo,  high view range OI's and ELC's running around brake turn snapshotting everyone.  T-34 comes out on top again, since it can still fire even further back and keep up the DPM.

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23 hours ago, 21Blackjack said:

 

Yep, seems like the meta has left it behind. Would love to see Crusader aim time buffed to 2.1 or even 1.9, it would hardly make it OP. A traverse buff would be nice too, it doesn't even feel that agile at low speeds, especially after the Covenanter (which is a gem btw).

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On 2/15/2017 at 5:21 PM, 21Blackjack said:

Crusader is basically just a T67 with some more hitpoints that trades alpha for dpm.  It's basically a turreted TD in the same vein as the Cromwell/Challenger/Charioteer

But the T-34 does a better job than all of them, the 57mm is the best turreted gun in the entire tier, high accuracy, high dpm, and its better protected against hull hits at long range due to its angle,  Even the Wolverine isn't as accurate or has as good DPM. And if something happens to corner you, you can bounce some random shots and out DPM anything that is in front of you.

So yeah T-34 is the best turreted TD at tier 5.

 

Wrong. T67 has both alpha and DPM advantage over Crusader.

Effective DPM is even worse for Crusader. It has very, very bad accuracy of 0.41 (only M4 with M1A1 is worse on paper, but better in practice), compounded with the fact that aim time is loong, longer than reload...for a gun that reloads in 1.9 seconds with just rammer, and aims 2.3 seconds. T67 has 2.7 reload and 1.7 aim time, making every shot perfectly aimed.

The rather derpy M1A1 on Sherman at least allows you to aim fully while reloading (like twice, lol), and T-34, while having same problems with aimtime/reload, at least has so good base acc (0.34) that it does not need to aim fully to hit targets under 300 m, anyway.

Dont be ridiculous. It would be a Td in tier 3, but in tier 5...

On 2/16/2017 at 1:29 AM, 21Blackjack said:

Back in the old days the Crusader could invisi-TD carry a game.  Now its just extremely risky with nerfed camo,  high view range OI's and ELC's running around brake turn snapshotting everyone.  T-34 comes out on top again, since it can still fire even further back and keep up the DPM.

T67 (then T49) could have done it even better. Murdering the whole team on Murovanka in magic forest was a salivating experience.

Crusader is just a slow light tank with a pew-pew, that can be one-shotted with derps that infest the meta. For T-34 Pz-4, M4 and such you need to load heat, and score 2 penetrations (or one HEAT pen+one splash dmg), while Cruz will get one-shot. All of the above are perfectly capable of trolling that 1st HEAT shot, and they get plenty of no dmg critical hits from guns with 100 mm penentation, or so, that are the standard in tier.

Not having more than 50 mm of armor anywhere is a serious hindrance.

For a more knowledgeable players, 85 mm rusian HE is capable of fully penning the Crus most of the time, so you can 2-shot it instead of 3 shots. That is plenty of tanks...from tiers 4-7 (bread and butter for Cruz). SU-85/B, KV-1, T-34-85, T-43...done it plenty of times. even splash dmg is around 150 (with plenty of module/crew dmg), so you lose nothing compared to shooting it with AP (you kill it with 3 shots with any type of shells, anyway).

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10 hours ago, Felicius said:

Wrong. T67 has both alpha and DPM advantage over Crusader.

Effective DPM is even worse for Crusader. It has very, very bad accuracy of 0.41 (only M4 with M1A1 is worse on paper, but better in practice), compounded with the fact that aim time is loong, longer than reload...for a gun that reloads in 1.9 seconds with just rammer, and aims 2.3 seconds. T67 has 2.7 reload and 1.7 aim time, making every shot perfectly aimed.

The rather derpy M1A1 on Sherman at least allows you to aim fully while reloading (like twice, lol), and T-34, while having same problems with aimtime/reload, at least has so good base acc (0.34) that it does not need to aim fully to hit targets under 300 m, anyway.

Dont be ridiculous. It would be a Td in tier 3, but in tier 5...

T67 (then T49) could have done it even better. Murdering the whole team on Murovanka in magic forest was a salivating experience.

Crusader is just a slow light tank with a pew-pew, that can be one-shotted with derps that infest the meta. For T-34 Pz-4, M4 and such you need to load heat, and score 2 penetrations (or one HEAT pen+one splash dmg), while Cruz will get one-shot. All of the above are perfectly capable of trolling that 1st HEAT shot, and they get plenty of no dmg critical hits from guns with 100 mm penentation, or so, that are the standard in tier.

Not having more than 50 mm of armor anywhere is a serious hindrance.

For a more knowledgeable players, 85 mm rusian HE is capable of fully penning the Crus most of the time, so you can 2-shot it instead of 3 shots. That is plenty of tanks...from tiers 4-7 (bread and butter for Cruz). SU-85/B, KV-1, T-34-85, T-43...done it plenty of times. even splash dmg is around 150 (with plenty of module/crew dmg), so you lose nothing compared to shooting it with AP (you kill it with 3 shots with any type of shells, anyway).

I always had GLD + BIA + Tea in the old days, so I used to think the DPM was better than the T67.  If you take GLD you get the aimtime below reload time, so its fine.  T67 was vunerable to the same HE as the Crusader, guaranteed one shot.  But it just goes to show, whatever British tank that exists, theres another non British tank that does it better.

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12 hours ago, 21Blackjack said:

I always had GLD + BIA + Tea in the old days, so I used to think the DPM was better than the T67.  If you take GLD you get the aimtime below reload time, so its fine.  T67 was vunerable to the same HE as the Crusader, guaranteed one shot.  But it just goes to show, whatever British tank that exists, theres another non British tank that does it better.

T67 and Crusader should not be mentioned in a same sentence. Better? Not slightly, but more like 3x. Have you checked soft stats? crus has one of the worst in tier.

T67 is the most OP tank in tier, while the Crus among the met at best. Crus is slow, while T67 is gonna beat a good deal of the tier 6 lights to some positions (magic bush on Prokhorovka, for example).

And you can not make aimtime lower then aimtime unless omitting the rammer...And that is seriously hampering yourself. I do not mount a rammer on T-28 and T-34 for the same reasons, but those tanks have the effective gun envelope right to the draw line. Crus is far too derpy, so DPM matters much more (and you miss far more).

T67 has one of the shortest aimtimes in the game, just 1.7 without anything (1.63 with 100% crew). Meaning you can skip EGLD completely -otherwise a must on low-tier tanks, and mount other more useful stuff, like rammer, optics, binos, or camo net.

 

On 2/17/2017 at 1:04 AM, Antimeridian said:

Yep, seems like the meta has left it behind. Would love to see Crusader aim time buffed to 2.1 or even 1.9, it would hardly make it OP. A traverse buff would be nice too, it doesn't even feel that agile at low speeds, especially after the Covenanter (which is a gem btw).

Aim time is 2.3 as it is right now. same as the soviet 57 mm..

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10 hours ago, Felicius said:

Aim time is 2.3 as it is right now. same as the soviet 57 mm..

Yeah, I'm comparing them now and Crusader has slightly better dispersion values than 57mm T-34 but T-34 has .5 better base accuracy which is ridiculous and very noticeable for me while running them both with GLD/vents and comparable crews. Not to mention that T-34 can afford to be more aggressive and close the distance more due to superior armor (troll in-tier), mobility, and DPM whereas Crusader needs to stay far away and preferably in camo thanks to the reasons you already listed (HE) - bye-bye, Crusader effective DPM. According to tanks.gg its stationary camo is barely better than the T-34's as well.

I still think the Crusader can win games (despite my own struggle with it), but it's very mediocre at its tier. Gun handling buff would be the shit. T-34, T67, and the KVs are still the tier V carry monsters IMO.

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