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Shako62

Tier 10's: When and how are you all playing them?

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Ok…With respect to Tier 10’s…

 

I have worked my way up to some Tier 10 tanks and have tried solo pubbing them. To put it mildly, brutal…

 

Couple of things I am wondering…

 

When and how are you all playing them?

 

Strictly Clan  Wars ?

 

Strictly Platoons ?

 

Daily Doubles ?

 

Solo Pubs?

 

Other…

 

In addition, for each respective Tier 10, say T62-a or E100 to name a couple, is there an equivalent lower tier tank that plays “the same” to give a learning experience / tactical overview of what to expect, that can be transferred to the higher tier…

 

i.e. The Tier 10 XXX plays very much like the T49…

 

Outside of running CW’s, my 10’s are not getting much play time and as such, my learning’s are not progressing the way I would like to…

 

Thanks in advance…

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I don't like running 10s solo. Shit i don't like running solo at all really. But they have made the costs and such more manageable( read profitable) for 10s. Its just a crap shoot on the team you get any time you play, if your platooned you at least have a couple mates to depend on.

I think its also less important to try to get all your doubles done, than it is to focus on the play style of a specific tank. Like bouncing a from a heavy to a med to a light can mess with me a bit, takes a little bit to readjust.

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For a long time I didn't solopub tier X tanks, and if I did, my WR was 15-20% (my T-62A stats still haven't really recovered). After playing in CW, I learned to play at tier X and now I can reasonably solopub (T110E5 is up to 58%).

 

But tier X is a double-edged sword because you're probably 10x as likely to run into a triple platoon of unici at that tier than at any other. It's a damned tough battle to combat that solopubbing, and gods help you if you get two of them on the same team.

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Shako62,

 

I find it a bit weird that you ask this question here.

You have more than 9k games and several tier10's already, but most of all, you are member of FOXEY, a land-holding clan...

I mean Allurai, kittikat etc. now are supposed to come here to explain you how to play T10s?

 

Also, I think you already indicated yourself what you have to do: master some lower tier tanks better (5 to 8 ).

From what I see, you are dealing with a classic case of going to tier 10 too fast (too many lines in fact), skipping some lessons along the way.

 

Anyway, your overall stats are pretty good, so it shouldn't be too much work. And your E100 is at 60%WR, so I think your heavy play is more or less mastered, as is your TD play. It's some of the other play styles which you have to train (lights and mediums).

 

If I were you, I would get inspiration from the veterans in your clan...

 

Tito

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Tito, I think Shako has been in FOXEY for about a week :-D

 

That said, to play 10s, you have to learn 10s. BT11 and BT12 or even a heavy BT10, just don't work like other tiers. The meta shifts. You can't yolo-rush like you do in the lower tiers. Exposures are HARSHLY punished, because all the tanks have 400 base view range, most have good crews, accuracy and soft stats are better than any other tier (so target acquisition is much faster) AND you're more likely to run into good players, especially in the evenings. 

 

I've only recently matched my tier 9 game count in tier 10s. Its taken concerted effort. Solo, platooned, whatever, just have to learn it like any other tier. Just don't expect win-rates like you see in your tier 7 and pref 8 tanks :-D 10s might always be top tier, but they cannot carry their potato teammates as reliably. 

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I like to solo most of the time (Read 95%). The only Tier X I have a low-ish W/R is the Obj 263 at 55%, others are around 60%.

 

That said Ive always enjoyed Tier X tanks, they are generally harder to play and thats why I ejoy it.

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It took me a while to feel like I was safe to hit the battle button on a Tier 10 tank when solo.  I also wrecked my T-62a stats by solo pubbing it as my first tier 10 tank.  I ended up platooning up with a couple folks that liked to run 10s even prior to 8.6 and started to get a better handle on the issues I was having (too much exposure, spending my HP pool too early in the game, and poor positioning).  After 8.6 I actually enjoy running 10s.  Out of my 8 tier 10s I generally will only solo with my Obj 268, E5, and Batchat though...mostly 268.  

 

I don't do CW anymore and have never been much of a fan of TCs so pubs is the only way I get my Tier 10 fix.

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I very rarely solo my 10s, if I do it's usually in my Batchat. It's harder for a few reasons. Compared to tier 5, pubs are generally better, view ranges are much more similar across the board (errybody got dat 400m), tanks aren't as underpowered and overpowered (while there are a few amazing tier 10s, there is no tier 10 T49, and the worst tanks in tier are much more competitive with the best than an ARL V39 is with a Hellcat), and you are so much more likely to run into a triple platoon of blues and unicums.

The last reason in that list is the main reason I don't solopub it though, because it's so hard to be competitive against that and it happens every other game.

If I were you, I would get inspiration from the veterans in your clan...

Tito

That's what he's doing by asking this question here. Better to ask all of wotlabs at its leisure than to bug a couple of guys for help while they're playing.
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Thanks for the replies so far...

Tito...As Crab mentions, I joined FOXEY a week ago, already met some great folks over there and joined the "PBKAC group" as it were because of all the help they gave / give out on a routine basis to total strangers as well as friends...Their association and involvement in this web site was a huge plus also...

Haven't met 80% of the clan yet so no, haven't talked to those "Purples" on getting better...Plus they are probably busy in game doing their thing, so the forums is a great place to chat on everyone's schedule...

Regarding my Tier 10's..."From what I see, you are dealing with a classic case of going to tier 10 too fast (too many lines in fact), skipping some lessons along the way."

I absolutely rushed to my first 10 as it was needed for clan wars in the Clan I was previously in. They had shortages of allot of tanks so I ground them out too.

As a result, I came to Wotlabs roughly 2 months ago ( started game in May ) as a solid Yellow player and started my learning process to get better and understand what I was doing. I am going back and re learning the lessons that are frequently discussed here...Tier 10's are now back on the radar, hence the question...I have a couple of purple stats but am no means a purple player yet...

Crab, thanks for that break down...Makes a lot of sense and semi prepares me to manage my expectations...At some point I will take you up on your training program... :)

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Despite having 18k+ battles, I never was a fan of tier 10 battles. As many already said, tier 10s have a hard time carrying their fail mates solo. A T29 can turn a 5-10 tier 7 defeat into a victory from time to time: now try to do this riding a Maus... even being always top tier is no guarantee of anything.

 

Some tier 10 tanks probably require more "help" from platoon mates than others (Maus, E-100). Other tier 10 tanks are more flexible and can be played solo with some success (T110E5, T-62A, Object 268, Bat Chat). Also, there are clearly some better tier 10 tanks than others: carrying battles with a Bat Chat, T57 or Foch 155 seems to be easier than with an IS-7 or a Maus, for instance.

 

However tier 10 battles, as many said, require more previous "thinking" and a whole new level of learning. Then, platooning with 2 buddies guarantees the best degree of success and enjoyment.

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I think one of the best parts about playing Tier 10s is that you are never bottom tier so you always have an opportunity to influence the match.

This is why I'd almost rather always rather solopub t10 than 6s. 6s are such a crapshoot wrt battle tier and the difference between 6s and 8s is so huge (unless you are in a hellcat:) )

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Unlike a lot of players I tend to play t10s daily and those are mostly all I run unless I feel like grinding a new line or finishing a line I'm working on (just need to get my tortoise and FV215b 183 to finish the entire British tech tree!) I like the way t10 battles play out much more than lower tiers. Fuck tiers 1-4. Tiers 5/6 are fun every once in a while in fun tanks (M4, ELC, FV304) tier 7 never really had a 'good' tank that clicked with me and my play style (minus the T71 but I feel like good scouts seem tierless to me) so I rarely have one in my garage. T8-10 is where you really start to find your own play style and where skill comes into play much more than other tiers. Sure armor can be mostly negated by sperm shells but even most gold can be bounced with proper awareness on tanks reloads and an insight on "What would I do in this situation if I were him. Where would I aim" with proper timing you can juke their shot and make it bounce/miss/or just take your track.  If you make a mistake someone will usually take advantage of your mistake and wreck you, but you have the health and armor to learn from those mistake and experiment with ways to overcome specific encounters while still being in the battle after taking 2 or 3 shots (if you're experimenting with ways of overcoming different TDs than that number may vary...)

 

I simply find t10 battles to be the most enjoyable, yes they get aggravating when you have some morons in t10s just rush around like they are in a t2 battle but you're always top tier. You have an influence over the battle no matter how badly or good it's going. Last man alive against 4 opponents? Use all the knowledge you have of maps and predict their predictions of what you're going to do and counter it. You won't win every time but when you do you feel great. Is the battle going great and you think "ah my team can just clean those last guys up" don't listen to that thought. Don't trust a pub teammate unless you're both communicating and planning. 

 

This is of course just my opinion though. We're each allowed to have our own.

 

 

 

I just went back to your first post and I seemed to have just rambled on and didn't answer your questions very well.

 

I mostly solo pub my t10 but will sometimes actively look for platoons if I feel the bads are all playing their t10s and making it hard for me to enjoy my solo pub. I don't really have a clan good enough to attempt clam wars/tournaments. I also lack the any of the clan wars viable t10s.

 

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Thanks for all of the thoughts so far...Got in game last night and had some platoon invites waiting for me, very much appreciated Diastant and Lobstercraw...I think we ended with a 75% WR for the 12 or so matches we played. Platoons are definitely more enjoyable than solo, even if some of the teams we had were not "stellar"...

On the second part of my original post...

"In addition, for each respective Tier 10, say T62-a or E100 to name a couple, is there an equivalent lower tier tank that plays “the same” to give a learning experience / tactical overview of what to expect, that can be transferred to the higher tier…

i.e. The Tier 10 XXX plays very much like the T49…

May not even be relevant to the first part of the post...Or even answerable...Just curious...

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On the second part of my original post...

"In addition, for each respective Tier 10, say T62-a or E100 to name a couple, is there an equivalent lower tier tank that plays “the same” to give a learning experience / tactical overview of what to expect, that can be transferred to the higher tier…

i.e. The Tier 10 XXX plays very much like the T49…

May not even be relevant to the first part of the post...Or even answerable...Just curious...

 

It's relatively difficult to create analogues between tanks of such tier difference past a certain point of detail. This is because the generally greater abilities of high tier tanks will both deny and create gameplay options that aren't available in low/mid tier gameplay.

 

Though in saying that, the hellcat plays very similarly to the leopard 1. Both are very fast (giving them extreme flexibility) with good guns and both rely on low exposure times and relentless usage of terrain cover/ vision control.

 

If what you're looking for here is a tank that will effectively act as trainer wheels, I would have to recommend against trying that. If the tier difference is high enough the game environment is more than likely going to set your low tier acquired skills on the wrong tracks for the tank you are trying to transition into.

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Barks_Internally wrote :

"Though in saying that, the hellcat plays very similarly to the leopard 1. Both are very fast (giving them extreme flexibility) with good guns and both rely on low exposure times and relentless usage of terrain cover/ vision control."

That is more of the analogy I am looking for, not so much the training wheel approach.

I realize I cant play a T49 like I do my E100 for instance, but maybe the KV1 / IS6 can be reverse angled like it for practice in a city environment...( I know I could just run the E100 and reverse angle it, but Tier 10 players tend to expect more from you than at the lower tiers I have found )

Great stuff...

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Most of my tier 10s have stats influenced poorly by clan wars.

They're however also positively influenced by platooning. I very rarely ever solopub in my tier 10s.

I like my tier 10s, but I prefer lower tier tanks better.

Constantly getting battle tier 10+ is not exactly my favorite. The easier I can avoid get matched with tier 10 TDs, the better.

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Adding more to this topic, How do you solo pub tier 9's and tier 10's successfully? I sort of got the impression in the wotlabs channel in game that on a scale of how bad of an idea it is to solo pub tier 10's, on a scale from zero to invading Russia in the winter via land, that its close to invading Russia in the winter via land.

I feel that I'm finally learning the E-100. I still have my derpy potato moments and pay for it, but when I pay attention to what I'm doing I do well.

Are there tier 9's and 10's that you can't solo pub successfully unless you are a very good player?

Its it much harder to help your team and "carry" in tier 9 & 10 unless you are a very good player?

Should I stick to platoons in tier 9 & 10?

It seems that the number of idiots and canned tomatoes on your team has a much higher negative effect in tier 9 and 10 than in lower tiers. Having a platoon of non idiots seems that it would likely greatly increase your chances of winning, especially in tier 10.

I feel that even when I do a good amount of damage I still have a win rate that's below my overall win rate and below my 60 day win rate. Looking at my battle info on vbaddict, I've had several days where I did a bunch of battles and my WN8 for tier 10 battles that day was 1700-1800 yet we won less than 30% of them. I don't get a win rate for the day above 50% in tier 10 unless my WN8 in tier 10 for the day is in the 2500+ range. I also looked at my stats for the past month in the E-100. My WN8 averages 1850+ and I only won 38% of those battles.

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In my case, I strongly preffer my TXs. I will do normally do all my X2 (90% soloubbing), and weirdly I also have very good stats in my TX (not always purple, but 2800 DB in a bat?).

I also feel like I am much more consistent at T10 (and 9 btw.) than any other tier. Maybe I take the gamre more seriously, but I actually think it's due do the meta and better balance (There is a big difference between your T-150 fighting a Hellcat with a good crew and equipment, and your T-150 fighting an ARL39 with a 50% crew on hilly terrain...).

 

Maybe this is due to EU having less TX high-skill platoons? I encounter them like 1/10 games or so, except when CW just finished. This might make it easier to carry (=have fun, be proud) than on NA?

 

And in my opinion, there are nearly no concepts you take from lower tier tanks. Sure, leo and hellcat play similiar; But a Hellcat can shoot at 300m without getting spotted-while a Leo can't: The meta, the "good spots", etc. are so different. (Btw: Don't reverse sidescrape in a E100 !!).

Many T9s play alot like their T10s though (mainly the meds come to my mind, but quite some others), if that is more appealing to you.

 

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I play mostly T10. I don't like being food for some tomatoes when I'm driving around in a T8, especially with the recent matchmaking change. I wanna influence the battle as much as I can with the strongest tank possible.

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I solo my Leo, its a take that always forces you to learn from your mistakes.  Finally above a 62% w/r in my Leo 1 after 500 battles.  I felt the Pershing had a good contrast with the leo in terms on how they play minus the hull down part of it.  Anyways, I wouldn't solo 10's until you can comfortable solo the lower tiers with decent w/r.   

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I play almost exclusively 10s these days

Mostly I run around in the E 50 M and then the STB-1 if the E 50 M is not available

Almost all the time I drive it solo, but recently I've started to get into platooning more and more in hopes of fixing my winrate and DPG

 

Word of advice for playing tier 10 solo: don't, unless you're a huge masochist

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Soloing in tier 10's takes patience and a helping of Luck.

I solo most (80%) of the time and I rage quit 3+ times a day. You succeed at tier 10 solo usually requires alpha(not to say you cannot use dpm but you have to be exposed longer generally) mobility (reset/Flex) and either semi reliable armour or camo.

Slower tanks are only useful if can completely dominate a flank, so it frees up team mates.

Generally Tier 8's start to teach more advanced techniques.

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