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Are good platoons bad for your stats?

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So i was having a discussion about platooning and their effect on your wn7. In my opinion it wouldn't make a a lot of difference there are some pro's countering the con's. and only on real extremes do the con's start getting big problems(for example a 3 embronic journey's in a hellcat platoon).

 

solo

pros:

-More hp

-more time to deal damage

 

cons:

-more team dependant

-lower w/r

 

platoons

pros:

-higher w/r

-people having your back/saving you when you make a mistake

-less bad players

 

cons:

-less time to do damage

-more people fighting over the same damage pool.

 

 

as i see it. in platoons its easier to reach a constant level. while solo you will get bigger ups and downs. eventually adding up to about the same.

Is there a way to reliably test this? maybe someone has an idea how to statistically prove either point.

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I good wingman is helpful. (I went 2160 WN7 with Jorey last night)

 

Playing with SR360 and Crab?.... its a fucking race to see who can get kills.

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Also interesting, and random, observation about platooning. For 3 man it's ideal to pay attention to comp i.e. a vision/flex, an anchor, a damage etc. But for two man I've failed hard trying to work on composition and it seems better just run two of same type of tanks to stick together close.

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Depends on who you are playing with, if you've platooned with somebody a lot and have voice comms you actually do much more damage overall, as you can turn around otherwise lost games and create new farming opportunities knowing who has your back.

 

 

I used to run with the same 2 people all the time (now they fucked off and went to go play GW2) and we won straight up 90% of our games, without suffering in dpg, because if you can perfectly cycle hp and create side shot pressure you can get situations to farm a shit ton of damage that solopubbing/random platoons wouldn't create.

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Although I sometimes like to solo to improve my "concentration" outcomes, my "fun quotient" can plummet when I don't have a friend or two along. #play4fun. 

 

But yes, its a challenge to output "amazing" dpg in some very high quality platoons, like pref 8s with _ESA_ and MaxL_1023 for example. Other stuff like T-54s, there is usually enough BT10/B11 hp to go around.

 

But this is all boring minutiae compared to self improvement or enjoyment. 

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I know I wasn't able to take it when someone stole even a few hundred points of damage from me. 

 

I suggest a 90 day detox.  Really. It will help you clear your mind.

 

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I am not completely sure whether it lowers your DPG. At least for a player of my admittedly still limited skill it doesn't necessarily. 3 men platoons increase my survival rate by ~10-20%. This allows me to get more late game damage than I would soloing. Obviously, this may be different for a top player who is less dependant on the critical mass of a platoon to influence games in his favour.

 

What I don't like very much anymore is platooning with players who are bonified unicums. Those bastards are just too quick for my mediocre mechanical skills and end up stealing too much damage. :verysmug:

 

In the end, the decision whether to platoon or not doesn't come down to my stats for me. For me playing solo is increasingly a chore. Alone I miss TS banter, bad jokes and the pleasure of teamwork. Moreover, pubbie hell threatens my sanity at times, platoons are a potent antidot.

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The choice you make is:

A) Play solo and possibly farm more damage/kills but win/survive less and generally rage more often.

B) Platoon with people, share damage/kills but also survive/win more therefore taking advantage of clean-up damage more often and have fun while doing it.

 

 

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It depends on your own level of skill and the skill of those you're platooned with. You have to get three stronk gudplayers together for the dpg to start going down noticably (I honestly don't notice a DPG drop from solo to platooning when I'm tooning with players that have 60day stats of less than purple. Playing with stealth and AR on the other hand...) It is harder to get kills when you platoon, though, moreso than damage (esp. when you are constantly sharing a flank with one of your platoon mates.) You'll often find that all three of you will be in the running for top damage, but one or two toon mates usually end up with the kills. At least, that's how it is for me.

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You over-exaggerate my talents. I've been super potato for the last 7 days.

 

On topic though. There are a couple of factors here. While on average platooning other purples seem to give you less chances to pad damage, because you are all fighting for the damage, at the same time it can give you more opportunities to do damage because you can push in harder and faster, you don't have to worry about getting flanked, you can share damage to keep your guns in the fight more often etc. A lot of the time I've noticed when playing with whompers and mw8173, and 2 of us will end up having great games and the 3rd one is sub 2k damage, either because they were holding a flank that didn't have much to shoot at, or because the other two were destroying everything by themselves the 3rd couldn't keep up.

 

It also depends on the rest of the pubs on your team and the enemy team. having a semi-competent group of pubs vs a shitbad enemy can destroy all of your damages. I've had games with 2 other purples where none of us and farm damage simply because nothing is staying alive long enough to be shot at. The point where you're ignoring your aimtime and pushing your reload time to the max simply because targets are falling down as fast as they pop up.

 

Crab has shown it is possible to have 3 people pull 3k DPG each, this is a testament to both the players skill, and their ability as a group. Pulling those numbers requires a certain clicking of playstyles that's hard to find, I'm guessing everyone was in their groove and it was just like watching a dance. In this situation it would be the pubs that have a hard time keeping up with the platoon on their team, because the platoon keeps smashing the reds face in and melting all the tanks in front of them.

 

The above is why the west coast is a great place for carry hard 3-man purple platoons. The lower average skill level of the pubs (or it seems to be lower average skill, i'm not sure if it's proven or not yet) means your platoon doesn't have your teams pubs leeching your damage/kills as much, and their pubs arn't countering/shutting down your platoon.  The same reasons that solopubbing on west is generally considered a bad idea are the reasons why it's a good place to go to platoon up.

 

TLDR: soloing may give you seemingly better chances to score more damage, having a good platoonmate or two can actually open up damage opportunities. Especially a platoon that works well together.

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TLDR: soloing may give you seemingly better chances to score more damage, having a good platoonmate or two can actually open up damage opportunities. Especially a platoon that works well together.

 

Pretty much how I feel.

 

I want to add that platooning with _Goliard upped my game tremendously. There's some side effects to platooning that leech into your pub play that make you substantially better, especially when you platoon with players who are themselves substantially better. In that sense, a good platoon is like God himself smiling on your stats.

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I'm not good enough yet for platooning to negatively affect my stats.

 

Lemme get back to ya in a couple years.

 

Lies. :)

 

I'll chime in here as a green-struggling-to-ever-see-blue.

 

Platooning with really good players like Rex, Gnug, Dlur etc. definitely helps my win rate.

 

But there is no doubt that it reduces my dpg/kpg/wn7 per session.

 

I highlight that because there are knock-on effects of platooning with them in my overall game. I usually learn something in nearly every game that helps me be ever so slightly better next time.

 

But I HAVE to solo to keep my other stats up because I'm simply not capable yet of taking damage and kills away from these guys. Their positioning is better, their awareness of firing lanes is better, and their knowledge of little tidbits like "completely ignore the Luchs in your M6 if you have enemies on cap." I really didn't want him to get behind me because I thought he could pen me.

 

Lesson learned. :)

 

Also, good players tend to be more free-wheeling than me because they just expect their team mates to know what to do.

 

I don't know yet, so I find it a little frustrating that they are off maiming and killing and generally having a ball while I'm trying to just figure out where the hell I should go given our team makeup etc.

 

Soloing takes some of that pressure off me. If I potato out, nobody but me and the random strangers suffers; I don't want my friends to suffer for my mistakes.

 

On the other hand if I pull a 5 kill, 4,800 WN7 game in my Hellcat solo, I pull my averages for night back up and get to gloat to myself about it.

 

Not that those happen often (damn you city maps!!!!) but it's nice to have that buffer for the learning sessions.

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Without empirical evidence, I'd agree with your initial assessment on the pros/cons list, but I believe this to only be an issue among the unicums, not the blues/greens/yellows.

 

Platooning decreases the frustration level of solo pubbing, it puts two other players you know you can trust in the match before it starts, and importantly for me, if they are better than me it gives me someone to watch for placement. Most importantly, platoons in TS can talk and trade damage/hp pool. It also effectively increases chemistry for CW. 3 people that are constantly wolfpacking in mediums are going to be your goto medium platoon in CW. Their chemistry, for a less established clan, is going to make up for the lack of long term playing together like the better clans have.

 

There is a flip side. Platooning with unicums will kill a greens W7 if the green is stuck to the side of the unicum to try and absorb by sidescrapping. I'm yellow/green, depending on which W7 meter you look at, and platooning with unicums just puts retarded pressure on me. I'm trying to watch them and see what they are doing that makes them so good while at the same time trying to prove that I deserve to be in the platoon.

 

Better to just platoon with them and run my own game. If I get stuck holding the side long enough to let them breakthrough on the other side and it hurts my damage, I don't care. A win is a win. I prefer it by killing all the tanks, but I'll take a cap. I prefer leading the damage board, but if my presence held back 4 tanks so they could flank and all I could do was bounce shots, I'll take the win.

 

I'll always take a win over W7. Hopefully what I did to achieve the win increases my W7.

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<snip> I'm trying to watch them and see what they are doing that makes them so good while at the same time trying to prove that I deserve to be in the platoon.

 

Better to just platoon with them and run my own game.<snip>

 

I'll always take a win over W7. Hopefully what I did to achieve the win increases my W7.

 

Exactly my feelings except the "run my own game" part. I try to run where they tell me to and I find myself spinning in circles and wasting time a lot. :D

 

What say you Unica?

 

A) Let the greenie join in, play their own game the best they can and correct as they go?

 

B) Coach/order them around from the start possibly distracting yourself in the process?

 

What do you guys prefer?

 

I'll chime in on what I prefer: direction during a few seconds of that 30 second warm up.

 

I'm too stupid to know a) what to do in general and b) what to do in a platoon, especially one where I want to shoot myself in the face for every little pubbie mistake I make (and I WILL make them in every game) because good players finally let me glom off of them for a few games.

 

At least push me out of the nest in the right direction. :D

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Just to be brief Derpinator,

 

It's usually clear at the start if this is a training platoon or not. If it's not a training platoon, you need to drive your own tank. What I think is acceptable is asking for positioning (which is asking where I am needed). Most times I can see where I am needed. Times I need help are scouting positions (I watch Anfield religiously when he posts replays) and some good TD spots on maps.

 

I have incredibly increased the rate at which I watch twitch streams, posted in another thread in the forums here, to find positioning on my own. What I don't want is to be a burden on the better players and make it feel like it's a chore to platoon with me. The single best thing you can do is watch unicums play on Youtube or Twitch to up your knowledge of positioning and movement.

 

Does that help?

 

post scriptum:

 

There are unicum battle callers that can completely keep track of every tank and what they are doing while having you make adjustments. Right now, as of 12:24 PM PST 10/1/13 Quickbaby on twitch is battle calling tank companies if you want to see almost that kind of management battle calling being done.

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A few notes on the benefits of platoons. Most of this applies to platooning with people of similar skill level. 

 

1. You can 'reliably' secure multiple flanks, allowing you to focus more on your own flank, being aggressive, and making opportunities.

2. A lot of your damage output relies on the majority of your team sucking, and the majority of their team sucking. So whether you are solo or not doesn't have much affect on this as MM decides it. 

3. Platoons tend to be players of the small skill level or higher, meaning you have 3 cases. Two of these cases is good for your platoon.

  • A platoon of 2/3 baddies (good for stats)
  • A platoon of 2/3 goodies (bad for stats)
  • A platoon of 1/2 goodies with a bad, or vise versa (bad/mediocre for stats)

4. Your platoon mates can bail you out of a bad situation. Calling for help actually does something. More time in the game means more damage to be dealt.

 

 

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Try platooning with Verilogus/HeavyTwenty/CarbonWard/Germany_Y. 

 

It's definitely bad for every stat other than WR/Survival.

 

But we're talking the extreme ends of the spectrum here, these are people who regularly pull off 4500~ DPG in their tier 10s post 8.6. 

 

For regular unicums/superunicums, I don't think your stats would take too much of a hit, and your WR/SR rises too. 

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Just to be brief Derpinator,

 

It's usually clear at the start if this is a training platoon or not. If it's not a training platoon, you need to drive your own tank. What I think is acceptable is asking for positioning (which is asking where I am needed). Most times I can see where I am needed. Times I need help are scouting positions (I watch Anfield religiously when he posts replays) and some good TD spots on maps.

 

I have incredibly increased the rate at which I watch twitch streams, posted in another thread in the forums here, to find positioning on my own. What I don't want is to be a burden on the better players and make it feel like it's a chore to platoon with me. The single best thing you can do is watch unicums play on Youtube or Twitch to up your knowledge of positioning and movement.

 

Does that help?

 

post scriptum:

 

There are unicum battle callers that can completely keep track of every tank and what they are doing while having you make adjustments. Right now, as of 12:24 PM PST 10/1/13 Quickbaby on twitch is battle calling tank companies if you want to see almost that kind of management battle calling being done.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I actually watch QB, Anfield, Embryonic_Journey or millardthemk every day. One or several of them are my pre-warmup to get me in the right mindset for the game.

 

I'm getting a lot better at the initial positioning, firing lanes etc. but what if what I've seen, and what my platoonmates do is radically different?

 

I'm certainly not going to call them out for doing things differently than the Unicums I watch because... well dammit, what they do works better than what I do.

 

But I'm going to be off my feet for a minute trying to figure out how to adapt. Thus potato moves like not realizing the that Luchs I was trying to keep off the ass of my M6 wasn't an ELC packing the 90mm.

 

Happened last night. I waste two minutes playing merry-go-round with a tank that was no threat to me BECAUSE I didn't want to look like an idiot to my toon-mates by exposing my ass to him and possibly getting in trouble. I looked even more stupid because of it. But lesson learned. :D

 

My w/r and WN7 (55%/1170) is pretty solid for the 30 day and would be better if not for three absolutely horrid nights recently, plus several low-tier stock grinds for the missions.

 

Oh and Millard took me out a few nights for scout tank training so a) I can't take any credit at all for those nights (70%+) and b) do damage when millard is playing? lolwut... not gonna happen.

 

So scout/toon with millard. Those weren't good nights for my WN7 in general, but I didn't expect them to be.

 

Although I could upload a screenshot of a game where I outdamaged him. Of course he had to go literally afk 40 seconds into the match for RL stuff. :D

 

Anyway, I've only recently started platooning regularly and with guys who put my numbers to shame. As in blurple shame.

 

And I've moved up a notch. I'm beginning to play tier 6-8 so there is a different meta. And I'm playing some new tanks.

 

So for now, I don't trust myself to know what to do solo, much less in a platoon. I'm definitely not suggesting that I hand my keyboard over, just trying to get a feel for how the really good players prefer to platoon with guys like me.

 

I don't want to feel be a liability and stop getting the invites, but I can't learn as much without making mistakes initially or getting some coaching.

 

By the way, this is a great topic overall. Thanks OP. +1 for you.

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I don't find that my DPG drops off at all platooning.  Now, granted I am not a unicum by any means, so I can't speak for them.  I don't platoon that much, but have a good old friend in _BAD_ that I do run with from time to time and in a three man platoon(usually Themusgrat, another -M-A- play or one of my friends contacts, we ran with a SIMP guy the other night and that went well) we have had a good number of 100% nights, 7-10 battles and I typically end up at the top of the damage list a good majority of those battles.  My aggressive play pays off a bit more with some back up and support, whereas in solo pubs I can get into trouble quick.  I have had a few 70%+ nights solopubbing recently, carrying hard, but then there are the times when I look at my session winrate and I am at 40% solopubbing, can't seem to get a team that has a clue as to what they are doing.  I think platooning offers more consistent numbers and lots of opportunities that only working with a good team can provide when it comes to flanking, tag teaming, etc. 

 

Every now and then you get a pub team that actually supports each other, but rare.  I had a WZ-131 actually cover my ass in a battle recently, just a random pub, which saved my life in my T-54 and allowed me to rack up 5 kills later in the battle.  He got directly in between me and an enemy that had converged on my position while I was already engaged.  Rare to see this in a solo pub, but in a platoon you can count on it and trade hp, cover each other, take a shot when necessary to provide an opportunity to each other.

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Exactly my feelings except the "run my own game" part. I try to run where they tell me to and I find myself spinning in circles and wasting time a lot. :D

 

What say you Unica?

 

A) Let the greenie join in, play their own game the best they can and correct as they go?

 

B) Coach/order them around from the start possibly distracting yourself in the process?

 

What do you guys prefer?

 

I'll chime in on what I prefer: direction during a few seconds of that 30 second warm up.

 

I'm too stupid to know a) what to do in general and b) what to do in a platoon, especially one where I want to shoot myself in the face for every little pubbie mistake I make (and I WILL make them in every game) because good players finally let me glom off of them for a few games.

 

At least push me out of the nest in the right direction. :D

If i'm the better player in the platoon, especially if it's by a lot (me with a green/barelyblue) I prefer you to just ask. Generally I'd like you to come with me and help me out, as i need someone to cover my yolo. But if you're uncomfortable with it, or just not sure or what not, ask. If you don't ask I'll assume you have a plan with what you want to do and let you go do it, I'm also semi bad at tracking the other side of the map, so having a platoonmate in TS that's holding the other flank I can bounce questions off them like how's the flank holding up etc.

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If i'm the better player in the platoon, especially if it's by a lot (me with a green/barelyblue) I prefer you to just ask. Generally I'd like you to come with me and help me out, as i need someone to cover my yolo. But if you're uncomfortable with it, or just not sure or what not, ask. If you don't ask I'll assume you have a plan with what you want to do and let you go do it, I'm also semi bad at tracking the other side of the map, so having a platoonmate in TS that's holding the other flank I can bounce questions off them like how's the flank holding up etc.

 

That's a great little piece of info. I guess I just assumed that all players at your level use the force to know what's going on.

 

+1 for you and an addition to my "things I can potentially contribute" list.

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