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Heinkel_Wulf

Taking a step back

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So, I've figured out I may not be bad@tanks but I'm definitely bad@highttier.  My T54E1 seems  medicore at 50%.  KT is weak at 48%.  I have the xp for the E-75 but I'm not sure it's worth moving up if I'm not even competent at tier 8 heavies yet.

 

I feel strong at tier 5 and 6.  I feel like I'm better than most the players and can carry matches at times.  So I'm going to step back and start doing alot of tier 7 until I feel competent there.  53% on SU-152 and 52% on Tiger I so far.  And a sad sad T29 39% but it's a small sample size with a string of bad luck.  I had some good games in losses.

 

It's a shame, I have a ton of fun in tiers 5 and 6, but it's really stat padding at this point and if I want to get better I think I need to focus on working my way to higher tiers and against tougher opposition.  I'm not sure if this is the best way to improve but it seems logical to me.

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My first 60% solo tank was the Easy 8. I didn't even have anything beyond tier 7 at that point, and it took me 6500 games to even purchase a tier 10. I'd say it took me another 2k to even get the hang of 8s fully, and another 150+ in the T-54 (after playing it for close to 200 AND the M103 for 200) to be ready for 9s, at which point I did well in the T54E1. I only recently feel like I've got 10s under control, and even then my grasp is tenuous. 

 

Am I slow? There are surely faster learners, but no, I am not really that slow. Practice is best, progression is a side effect. 

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I feel you man. Tier 8+ can be pretty unforgiving since most of the players there picked up something along the way in getting to those tiers.  The traditional boss tanks of tier V & VI can boost your stats, but bringing up those same stats along with avg. tier is a different ballgame. 

 

At the same time, it also means there is a lot to learn at those levels, and this in turn can bring your tier 5/6 play to a whole new level.

 

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I'm in the same boat as you Heinkel, i'm doing great with my tier 5/6/7 but once I hit 8 things start to get shakey. I think i'll be doing more tier 7 as well, we'll probably be seeing lots of each other then! 

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I'm feeling the same way.  There are a few tanks I think I have a decent grasp of at tier 8, but I'm in well over my head at 9 and 10.  I've basically stopped playing 9 and 10 altogether and started playing 5-7 more.

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o.O at tier 8, my IS-3 gets shot by another IS-3. meh, 1/4 of my HP lost.

 

at tier 5, my T49 gets shot by a hetzer. gg I'm dead. That being said, I haven't 6th on my tier 5s cuz I xfer those crew up all the time, so that might have something to do with it.

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o.O at tier 8, my IS-3 gets shot by another IS-3. meh, 1/4 of my HP lost.

 

at tier 5, my T49 gets shot by a hetzer. gg I'm dead. That being said, I haven't 6th on my tier 5s cuz I xfer those crew up all the time, so that might have something to do with it.

 

Since you are comparing apples to oranges. What happens when an Obj 704 shoots your IS-3 :)

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Since you are comparing apples to oranges. What happens when an Obj 704 shoots your IS-3 :)

 

I die, because there is also a 268 shooting me, because I am in a BT10 match, and there are 7 TDs on the enemy team and no one misses anymore because of 2 sigma accuracy and BT8 doesn't exist except for limited MM tanks. 

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wat, I used a tier 4 shooting a tier 5 example to make it even more dramatic. It could've been a PzIV, sherman, or even one of those tier 3s with the 370dmg derps.

 

If you want to overtier, I could've easily said KV-2, KV-1S or something.

 

Either way, I'm getting 1-shot in tier 5 by half the shit I see, while that obj704 will only do half my HP. It's just at the same time, it takes me like 5 secs to kill another T49. That's just the speed at which tier5 goes.

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At tier 5 it should be Hetzer and KV-1, with the Hetzer taking off ~half its HP with a pen.

 

At tier 8 it should be SU-152 and IS-3, with the SU taking off ~half its HP with a pen.

 

But yes higher tiers are harder, it's really not a bad idea to stay in 5/6 for a while and get more mechanics down. Try different styles of tanks down there. You'll come out with more experience and better crews to tackle 8/9/10 with.

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It seems to me that you've hit the natural progression of the game. My first Tier 8 heavy was the KT and I struggled with it for over 100 battles before I finally started doing well (and the win rate shows it). I have done better in most of the other Tier 8 heavies I've tried (excepting the T32 which just didn't suit me well). 

 

Like Crab said, it takes practice at that tier to get better. I'm still getting my sea legs in Tier 9 right now and it's been okay, but not without some tough learning experiences. I've held off playing Tier 10 for now until I feel I have my competence up to snuff in Tier 9.  

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wat, I used a tier 4 shooting a tier 5 example to make it even more dramatic. It could've been a PzIV, sherman, or even one of those tier 3s with the 370dmg derps.

 

If you want to overtier, I could've easily said KV-2, KV-1S or something.

 

Either way, I'm getting 1-shot in tier 5 by half the shit I see, while that obj704 will only do half my HP. It's just at the same time, it takes me like 5 secs to kill another T49. That's just the speed at which tier5 goes.

 

That's because you're talking about the T49, a tank with sub-par health and sub-par armor for the tier. I don't think there is really a tier 8 equivalent for that except light tanks.

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I die, because there is also a 268 shooting me, because I am in a BT10 match, and there are 7 TDs on the enemy team and no one misses anymore because of 2 sigma accuracy and BT8 doesn't exist except for limited MM tanks. 

Yep.  I pretty much don't enjoy playing Tier 8 and 9 tanks anymore because you rarely get a match that isn't at least BT10.  If I'm going to be in a BT10 match I may as well be playing a Tier 10 tank, and preferably be one of those 7 TDs :)

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Thats not a bad idea, the dynamics certainly change.  I had a rough go of it in the KT, did better in the VK4502A actually, but did much better in my E-75.  I have solo pubbed some decent winrates in tier IXs, but then there are tanks like the Tortoise that I am doing decent in, but have an attrocious winrate in due to fail teams.  Now that it is fully upgraded I expect to do better, but was pretty bummed out after the first few nights struggling for my x2/x3.  You will find your stride. 

 

One of the things you have to keep in mind is that you see tanks two tiers above you until you get to tier IX, then worst case scenario is a very tier X heavy battle, which you can still damage everything with SPREM in a tier IX.  Tier VIII seems to be filler for tier X battles a lot of times and it is hard to do well in those situations.  I bought back the KT trying to get my winrate up to 50% in it and have stopped solo pubbing in it, as you just can't carry in a BT10 battle in it and there are far too many pubtards that have failed their way to tier Xs already and make it nearly impossible.

 

On a side note hit me up to platoon if you ever see me on.  I am going to buy back my SU-152, to get it up from 48% winrate to 50%, I also have my AMX M4 45 that I am digging out of its original winrate and will be buying back the Tiger (H), as well, so I have some VIIs.  I have the KT in the garage along with the GW Panther that would work for tier VII or VIII battles.

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Tank Brothers,

 

I've got nearly twice as many matches as you (Jorey and Heinkel) and only three T8 tanks (T34/IS3/M26) with a combined 442 matches in those tanks (323 in T34).

 

I realized quickly in T8 that I wasn't "seasoned" enough to live in that tier. Dabbling occasionally was enough to keep the fingers fresh, but I wasn't ready to be a quarterback on that team.

 

So now I satiate my appetite with 5-6-7, and that is where I want to primarily drive my improvement from.

 

The Navy has taught me "crawl-walk-run". It pays true in tanks also.

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I've been in midtiers too long myself, and its shown.  I've been trying to work back into higher tiers lately, and am just now getting back into something resembling competence (In my terms).  Midtiers are fun, but like Worst said, it's best to just work up the foodchain and improve there.

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Thanks for the encouragement, all!

 

On a tier 7 note.  IS.  ID10T gun or 122?

 

I'll keep an eye out for you, Gath.

 

The month long missions did wonders for my tier 5 play.  I abused the T49 to the fullest extend and have some other 5's at 60% or above.  But as much as I love pretty stats they don't represent my strength until I can do it at all tiers.

 

Crab's on target, I have been trying to improve as fast as possible, probably too fast.  I'm not the patient type.:)  Right now at tier 7 I'm playing T29, Tiger, SU-152 and E-25.  I might focus on the T29 tonight, I'm not really doing it justice and knowing all the hulldown spots is a weakness of mine right now.  I'm not using it properly.  E-25 I think I can run as a T49 on steroids.  SU-152 with derp is a challenge.  I don't have a feel for the tank at all yet.  Tiger has been fun to use, it fires so fast now.  I may go back and rewatch the lesson with Crab.  My survival rate has been dropping and fixing that will help everything else.

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My first tier 8s were the KT and T32. Wow my stats in both of those are terrible.

 

I can understand stepping back if you feel that you have a poor understanding of game mechanics. Regardless of tier, learning to abuse spotting mechanics, camo, aim, etc. will pay dividends for end tier vehicles. However, if you are stepping back because you perform poorly in a vehicle, playing another vehicle at low tier is not going to solve anything. At tier 8 and above, the issues you may be facing are uncertainty of weakspots on enemy vehicles, what to do as a tier 8 in a tier 10 match and other related issues that come with experience. Supplement experience with guides but you still have to put the work in at end tiers. 

 

As people have already said, a learning curve exists in being successful in end tiers. While it would be nice to be able to step into end tier being able to pull the weight of a 'purple' it is not likely to happen. At some point, you have to play the end tiers to translate your basic understanding of game mechanics to end tier success.

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Back when arty made high tiers unplayable tier 8 was a real sweet spot; I have played most of my games there and probably learnt the most. Now you just seem like fodder for 9/10s. Tier 9 is my current favourite, you don't have to rely on incompetent +2 tiers to win and only sometimes get sucked into tier TD (sorry tier 10). 10s can be fun, but constantly getting snapshot by a fullspeed/rotating 47% TD for 1000hp gets old.

 

Anyway, you won't get better in 8/9/10s playing tier 5/6. It's just not the same, you are largely just farming morons at that level. If you just want to stat pad thats fine, but everyone can see your avg tier. Generally people seem to get competent around tier 7.

 

 

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IS? Idiot gun can work as it will surprise good players and work well if you can manage the lower alpha, but the DPM/alpha combo of the 122 is where it's at, IMO.

 

 

In higher tiers, you're not taking a step back, and here's an example of why...

 

If you use XVM, run 10 tier 5 matches in a row, go to the tab menu when the battle is loading and take a screenshot of each.  Add up the WN7 scores of all the players, and make an average score per player.  Let's pretend you're using the 1-100 scale and come up with an average of 30.

 

Do the same at tier 10, and the average is going to be something more like 50.

 

Now, look at how you fit in to that scale.

 

You're going to be MUCH better than average in the low tier matches.  You're going to simply be above average in the high tier matches. There is an enormous difference in player skill at higher levels. Your average player at tier 5 probably doesn't have 2000 games under their belt, whereas that would be reroll only terrirory for tier 10s.

 

Add on top of the better quality players that you don't know the tanks very well, and that the game is legitimately very different at top tiers due to the combination of lower relative DPM/alpha, but higher cost of mistakes due to view range/gun handling/player skills, which basically means that the cost of exposing yourself in some way is relatively higher, because the damage you put out is even lower proportional to the risk level you take.  Make sense?

 

 

 

 

 

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Only way 2 get better @ high tier is 2 play more high tier.

My favorite line in this thread.

 

Don't feel compelled to play tier 9 if you aren't comfortable with tier 8.

Don't stop playing the strong tier 8's that you already have, just because you are still figuring out the tier.

 

Hopefully someone awesome would be willing to platoon with you at 8's to help you get over the hump?  

CrabEatOff did that exact thing for me back when I made a topic about doing well at 5, but sucking at 8s.  

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I did some digging in WotStats.  Cause I love numbers.  Anyway...my most played tanks lately that have at least 50 games played.

 

Tier 5   WR    WN7

T-49     60%  1813

T-34     62%  1678

 

Tier 6   WR     WN7

Hellcat  57%   1940

KV-1S   56%   1591

 

Tier 7    WR     WN7

SU-152 53%    1325

Tiger     52%    1490

 

Tier 8    WR     WN7

Tiger II   48%   1098

 

Tier 9     WR    WN7

T54E1   50%   1306

 

Pretty obvious I'm doing something seriously wrong with the Tiger II.  Tier 7 seems to be the point where I'm starting to struggle, so that's where I plan to play alot.  It's not so much I feel compelled to play anything.  I just don't like feeling like I'm dragging my team down and with the Tiger II right now I am. 

 

And yep, makes sense Teff. And the numbers support your theory pretty well.  Just me venting my frustrations and thinking of ways to improve beyond "play more games".  :)

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Only way 2 get better @ high tier is 2 play more high tier.

 

Yup, this is it.

 

In my case, this means getting my arse handed to me five hundred different ways.  Through this brutal therapy, I am slowly whittling down the number of incompetence attacks and self-inflicted wounds.

 

Progress is progress, even if it is pathetic and slow!  A quick comparison...

 

 

After my first week of solo-pubbing my new T57 Heavy, I had racked up the following enviable results:

 

Damage ratio: 100%

Survival: 22%

Win rate: 30%

 

 

Following that auspicious start, I went "back to basics" and began untangling the worst aspects of my gameplay, bit by bit.  I'm some ways through that now, and have brought things up from "shameful" to "meh"...

 

Damage ratio: 144% (90d : 154%)

Survived: 35% (90d : 36%)

Win rate: 49% (90d : 52%)

 

That's simply from banging my head against the Tier X brick wall, solo-pub aversion therapy.

 

 

I've still got a long way to go, but in all honesty, the stuff I'm working on can't be done at Tier VII.  Odds are, if I do something really foolish in a T29, I have a fair chance of getting away with it.  Get away with foolish things often, and I'll get into a pattern of learned foolish behaviour.

 

Once I get past fixing all the basic stuff (like fixing my low kills-per-game), I'll be in a position to start trying to read and influence the battle.

 

Eventually.

 

But, again, Tier X battles have a different flow to them.  Not gonna make progress in that at Tier V or VI...

 

 

 

 

 

Confessional T57 Heavy Stats of Shame here.

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In my own experience I improved with every next tank I purchased and played. My KT as my first tier 8 is somewhere at 46% WR which is pretty terrible. My second Centurion 1 is around 48 % WR. My third 110 is at 51% and I can do pretty well in it last times. My fourth T-44 is around 61,5%. I don't think playing next tank would be better, I expect my t-44 to even drop a bit. Also I started playing with my friend. She started from the scratch when I had my 110. She has lower stats than me, but tutoring her actually helped my own gameplay. So I suggest trying more tier 8s. Playing with someone else, even when he is playing worse. And of course playing :) Also staying at one tank and not changing all my 20 tanks to get daily 2* exps helps. I try to play 2-3 tanks a day. And I think KT as a starter 8 tier tank is pretty hard to master (at least for me, I think mobile mediums suit me much more).

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