How to clam?

[tefftorbes 866]

Hi new peoples! Here's a quick guide for new players looking to join their first clan, or, nominally, their first decent clan. Good players that have been around the block can identify all of the good clans, so this guide is not for them.

 

First, you may hear people talking about "big clans" or "small clans" or "social clans". The latter simply means that the clan is not dedicated to clan wars. There are social clans that have good players in them, although most of the players in most social clans aren't very good. They may do activities in training rooms, they may run tank companies, and they may even do some clan wars landing zones, too, and even take land every once in a while. But the difference between a big clan and a small clan isn't the number of members - but rather the quality of the players therein. HAVOK is a big clan, for example. BUNEH is a small clan. Some subclans are medium clans, such as CLAWS, or FOXEY, and other subclans are even big clans of their own, such as OTTER. Even though BUNEH has 100 players, and some of them are pretty good, they aren't a big clan because they're new to clan wars and have a lot of players that are just getting in to it.

 

If you're new to the CW scene, you will probably not be able to get in to a big clan very easily, unless you're an exceptional player. So you will need to go to a small clan instead, and work your way up a bit. There is an entire forum on the official forums dedicated to joining clans, as seen here: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/forum/51-looking-for-a-clan/ That forum is generally something I would avoid, unless you already know what you're looking for, particularly if you don't have great stats. Why? While a lot of good clans will look there for recruits, you may notice that there are hundreds if not thousands of people that move from clan to clan every day, and maybe a couple dozen posts in that forum. We have a similar forum in here, and the pool of clans that utilize it to recruit is much smaller, but is also of a much higher quality.

 

Most of the clans that recruit in that forum are looking for random fodder to build their clans up with. Most of them are casual clans, or people attempting to get a clan wars clan started from the ground up. Most of the latter will fail. I am sure that many of them are great groups of guys (and gals), but most of them lack the skill, organization, work, and desire to put in the effort that it takes to build a truly successful clan; if someone is doing most of their recruiting on the forums, it's because they don't have a lot of connections, and connections in this game are important.

 

Please note: Having experience is a clan with a bad reputation will do nothing to stop people from recruiting you in the future. As long as you don't blindly defend asshole commanders, your history of clans shouldn't affect you that much.

 

 

 

So, WAT DO?

 

There are clans that call themselves "training" clans. Most of them are a complete load of crap. If one of these clans looks good to you, do yourself a favor and look at their stats on noobmeter or WOTlabs. A good training clan should have players of all skill levels, from purple on down. You should also look for a clan to have improving short term stats rather than relatively flat stats, which would imply that the players in the clan are actually improving their game rather than being stagnant. Here's a clan that does training for their members:

 

http://www.noobmeter.com/clan/na/UNICA/1000010664

 

See how their short term stats are significantly better than their long term ones? And how they have players that are legitimately excellent at the game? That is what entails a good training clan. Conversely, here is IOC, which isn't so much a training clan, but may lead you to beleive that you will learn by joining them:

 

http://www.noobmeter.com/clan/na/IOC

 

And you can see how they compare here:

 

http://www.noobmeter.com/compareclans/na/IOC/UNICA

[tefftorbes 866]

So if you want to join a training clan, pay close attention to the members in it!  There are some that are just a load of crap, and a complete waste of your time.  You're much better off going to a social clan, or a platoon-centric clan that isn't focused on clan wars.

 

 

Social clans are usually independant but also oftentimes attached to bigger clans.  In the PETCO family, BURDY is a pure social clan, BUNEH would fit in as CW/social.  In the Enjoy family, Indeed (-_Q) is a good social clan option too.

 

Independent social clans, such as HANS, or VX9 (Sorry Expendable_lad) are a totally fine place to be if you're not focused on moving in to a CW clan right away.  But IMO they will stunt your opportunities a little bit.  If you join clans like this instead of a social adjunct clan, you're essentially disconnecting yourself from all of the players that do heavy CW stuff - and it will take you a bit longer to find somewhere that you fit in once you decide to make the jump to the world of CW.

 

My general recommendation for players that aren't CW-capable, and are still learning the game is to find one of these social clans, and once you're in, hang out with the people in the clans they're attached to.  Meet their players, play with them, learn from them, and so on.  This will get you some connections in higher places, so when you're ready to move up, you will be doing so in a comfortable, friendly environment - it's much easier to perform well with players you're comfortable with!

 

 

So, you've been in a social or platooning clan for a while, and you're ready to do CW.  By now, you'll have your sea legs, and should be able to decide for yourself.  In the world of small and medium clans, there are clans with less experience but better tankers, which will often underperform their stats a bit in CW, and there are also clans that are made up of more grizzled veterans that are perhaps not as good at the game in pubs, but have been doing CW for a long time, and they can make surprisingly formidable opponents for those with less experience. A mediocre FC that has played most of the maps in CW and knows what to expect may be better off than a better FC that has never played CW on a map and has not built a strat for it.  Wherever you end up, from now on, the only real limiting factor to where you can make it is the quality of your play.  Play well, get a bunch of tier 10s, and you can make it in a big clan.  

[Worstpoaster_na 690]

I actually don't advise moving into a clan wars capable subclam (aka foxey,rel-a, pupeh, thugz, uf.etc)

I would just stay in a social clan until you have enough 10s+sufficent stats for a top 15.

because I find many of my friends in there get the "little sister syndrome"

 

where once they have good enough stats to join a decent, top 15 clan, they are stuck in a subclan with no where to go. LOL STEALTH WHINING FOR HOURS ABOUT HOW HE'S STUCK IN FOXEY

Players from the main clans, almost never platoon with their subclam members(unless they are friends) and you really don't get that much better unless you play with purples. There is only so much you can learn from greens and blue.

[tefftorbes 866]

At no point was stealth stuck, he was totally welcome to drop tags at any times and start applying wherever his heart's content was. It may take him a week or two. So be it. Do you think it actually held him back, or did he hold himself back? We have enough talent coming in to FOXEY that we would be fine if PBKAC/OTTER/BADGR pulled a couple of our guys up.  Obviously it isn't my preference, but everyone has free will and the power to control their own destiny here. Where I am now, I feel that I could move up if I chose to, but I am actually really enjoying developing this clan, personally.

 

But it is true that most of our recruitment has been organic, and it has not been powerfully driven by BURDY/BUNEH by any means - but a good chunk of our recent recruits are from DOGE, and there's a very clear pecking order in the family now. That means for players that are near their peak, they can slot in at one of two or so clans where they're the best fit, and for players that are on a path of major improvement, will be able to move up in time.

 

And I've platooned with plenty of people from the other clans, by the way. While I normally stick to my typical foxey/havok repitoire, I've probably played with 15+ kitties from time to time, and plenty of people from the other clans in the family too.

[KraftLawrence 1,435]

 I normally stick to my typical foxey/havok repitoire

 

<3 <3 <3 

[tefftorbes 866]

Kraft, your stats haven't improved since you left us... WHY?

 

And on that note, Kraft went straight to HAVOK from here.

[Okeano 2,174]

I actually don't advise moving into a clan wars capable subclam (aka foxey,rel-a, pupeh, thugz, uf.etc)

I would just stay in a social clan until you have enough 10s+sufficent stats for a top 15.

because I find many of my friends in there get the "little sister syndrome"

 

And consider "top 15" clans only have 1500 spots, with most of them already filled, just how are hundreds of clan prospective wotlab user going to join these? Stay in scrub clans forever and gain zero CW experience? Think before you poast, despite your name.

[emperorguy 6]

Can;t say about the other ones but Aux has had a fairly fluid make up during my stay, sure not everyone gets into main but 2nd and 3rd are not exactly scrub clans.  Let alone that 'retired' officers come to aux with a ton of experience and a month ago ~90% of the 'CW ready' members were moved up into the other clans.  

[_Dia 2,082]

Pupeh -> Enjoy 

 

I heard they changed the name to DOGE or something? 

[Expendable_Lad 754]

Man, Teff carries me for a few games this weekend and then calls me out on the forums!?

 

The big two things Teff brings up that I agree with are :

 

1) Do research on your potential clan and not just statwise.  Hop on TS, be proactive with members of the clan and not just the recruiters, make sure the majority of guys in the clan are active (ie have lots of battles in their 60-days in the aggregate).  Check the 60-day stats talent-wise vs the overall too, but be sure to interpret this all in the context of your overall goals, which leads me to #2

 

2) Know what you want out of WoT so you can weigh each factor I mention above. Do you want a clan that has broad reach and player-base across many games?  A developed in-clan website and TS. A clan where stats are more important or less important?  A clan with CW, Tank Company capabilities, regular inter-clan events, a systematized training program (and if so, for macro or micro strats), a clan that encourages people to get involved wherever they want to be, a clan that takes itself very seriously?

 

I play squash and every now and then come across teams during inter-club play where players regularly drop F bombs or slam racqets on the court every time they lose a point.  Of course individuals play differently, but what's the general tenor of player attitude you'd like? Grill your recruiters and pm other members. 

 

It's just worth taking the time to find out what you want. I've met my best in-game friends (and independently cool guys) in VX9 and the clan has something to offer just about anyone interested in any aspect of the game. For the most part there are no griefers and attitude and character are more important than stats in finding good chaps (of which we have many) to platoon with.  The clan insists on letting everyone who wants to get into CWs into the game and its a great community both on and off line. It's not a land-holding powerhouse or a top-15 contender or a boot camp, but that's not really what it's about (yet, as a growing membership base has expanded our capabilities).  Player goals change and people reassess their own goals and move in and out of clans- but do your research and make a commitment for at least a little while so you can make an informed decision when and if you ever decide to move on.  

 

I'm only 5k games into my WoT career, so I am not a big expert here, but that's my $.02.

 

 

[Worstpoaster_na 690]

And consider "top 15" clans only have 1500 spots, with most of them already filled, just how are hundreds of clan prospective wotlab user going to join these? Stay in scrub clans forever and gain zero CW experience? Think before you poast, despite your name.

 

Very few people who are "stuck" in subclams are actually perfectly content there.

Most people I know that are in subclams long to join a better clan, and while they are "okay" being there, they always have the feeling the want more.

 

little sister clan syndrome I call it, and a lot of people bitch about it. too many times i've heard the term "fuck this shit clan, I wanna join xxx" 

 

I would rather just sit in a social clan, not really doing cw, filling garage with 10s, then seek a top 15-20.

 

 

And scrub cw experience isn't really good at all, I fced a couple of pupeh battles with banzaibonsai before, and I don't think they have any idea what tier 10 metagame looked like before, we had to explain the very basics of shit like where do you pen a maus. You need to run with blues/purples in cw to get a real scope of how high level play is like.

[Okeano 2,174]

Even if *everyone* in a subclan wants to move up and I don't think that's the case, the fact is when everything else (stats, tank selections) are equal, the one from a subclan would be picked over someone from a random clan. I know I'd be more willing to platoon or mentor a PETCO member than a random person that just PM'ed me. It's easy to say "Oh just wait til you're good enough then join a top clan" when you're already at the top. You think someone would be better off sitting in ARMED or some random Canadian Calvary clan and try to improve your stats? Yeah good luck on that when everyone else in the clan "plays for fun". 

 

I'm sure everyone would like to live in a nice house, but just because you can't yet, doesn't mean you shouldn't get that apartment you can afford but live in a tent instead.

[tefftorbes 866]

I didn't carry him, except in one match. He carried me

[Deusmortis 4,618]

My one bit of advice:

 

Be VERY wary of clans that advertise at the start of pub matches.  Whenever they say:  "My clan is recruiting!  We're the bestest adn mostest other superlativeist!  We do stuff!  Join us!"  I read:  "Holy shit we're fucking desperate.  We have no direction or cohesion at all.  We have no standards whatsoever.  We need warm bodies to fill spots, but we have no plans on ever achieving anything but numbers.  We're a dead end."

 

These guys are the disguised shitty sales jobs in the classified section.  Make 20k per day, no training required! 

[KraftLawrence 1,435]

 

 

Kraft, your stats haven't improved since you left us... WHY? 

 

And on that note, Kraft went straight to HAVOK from here.

I think I've actually gotten worse @pubbing lol . See Okeano's thread on tournaments making you worse @ pubs... I think the same thing sort of applies to CW >.<

 

 

little sister clan syndrome

fuuuck, I just realized this is imouto syndrome . I be your imouto, worst oni-chan!

 

 

I'm sure everyone would like to live in a nice house, but just because you can't yet, doesn't mean you shouldn't get that apartment you can afford but live in a tent instead.

Ye I think this pretty much summarizes my thoughts too.

[CarbonWard 3,529]

Im actually inclined to agree with Worst in not joining a subclam if you are really aiming to join a top tier clan.

 

I remember during the FORGE days when a couple of friends of my was stuck in ANVIL despite being easily better than 80% of Forge during its prime, reason?

Because they were too important for the subclan to let go

 

And this doesn't just happen in Forge, i can attest that it happens in my own clan as well, there are several players in Cha1 with stats easily capable of joining CHAI had they had no clans at all, but since they already are in the subclan and is vital to its success i am forced to keep them there(Albeit with double pay).

 

 

[CarbonWard 3,529]

The petco might be different since each clan is independent in the sense that the main clan(s) on't have much control over the subclan leadership and reverse is also true.

 

But in clans with a tight structure where a few person from the main runs everything or has great influence like Forge-Anvil-Alloy, SSGS-BT, Power Corp or my own clan, it can be a pain in the ass to move up the clan chain even if you have the skill and tanks.

[The_Coward 19]

Why does it have to be so freaking complicated.

It is a game after all. Right?

[eawh 26]

I was stuck in a subclan trying to move up to the main clan. I was given a specific set of goals to achieve I hit these goals quicker then they thought I would. Was told I would have to wait until room in the clan was available. 

 

A week later people were kicked out/left the main clan for different reasons. Asked if it would be possible to move up the guy said he would think about it. Then I was told I was an important member in the subclan and I would be happier there. 

 

I left the next day.

 

 

 

[tefftorbes 866]

What is better?  Being a more important part of a lesser clan, or a less important part of a better clan?  I could fit in at PBKAC as a soldier (Probably not OTTER, hah!) , I'd probably only get picked for battles occasionally, and I'd definitely be making more gold than I am at FOXEY - but I've done reasonably well here. At some point I may just want to be a soldier at a better clan. But for now? This is fun, challenging, and I love the group of guys I play with.

 

Also, some of the more competitive clans require bigger time committments.  We started at 1 day of CW/week, and now we ask for 3. Most of the big clans ask for 4.

 

There is no right answer.

 

Mainline player base of PETCO clans according to 30 day WN7 (Players ranked 25-50th - this is the range I am to recruit in as a baseline, I go higher as often as possible too but most of the guys I bring in tend to be in this sort of range, goal being to gradually turn the roster towards being more competitive)

PBKAC     1716-2034    

OTTER    1894-2089

BADGR    1791-2004

FOXEY    1601-1767

DOGE     1325-1504

BUNEH    1334-1454

BURDY    1112-1367

 

Generally speaking, the best players in each clan would work out fine in the next clan up.  The next quarter or so could possibly get in the next one up but not likely.  If you improve and want to move, you can do it. There's nothing stopping you. Drop tags and apply.

 

Petco clans are surprisingly independent, but we do work together, and there is an enormous DOGE -> FOXEY migration happening right now that is going to help establish us as a clan with a good shot at being top 30, and DOGE is going to be taking a step back.  And that migration started happening when people started realizing "Oh, wow, I didn't realize where FOXEY was right now, I thought DOGE was better".  In some ways they were. But it happened naturally.  It started with some officers leaving, and then we did some selective poaching of their better players.

 

Said players are totally welcome to drop tags and move back to DOGE or BURDY or whatever.

 

 

On that note, if you join a subclan and you're finding yourself too important for that subclan, if you just drop tags you can apply elsewhere. Your best players in CHA1 may be hamstrung if they only speak chinese, but you have to consider that as a minority problem for the playerbase as a whole.  There's nothing stopping your CHA1 guys from dropping tags and moving to one of the RELIC clans, or VILIN or OTTER or even G, except for the language barrier.  The bottom line is that for most of the player base in medium clan war clans, the top players in said clans could easily get in to a more competitive place.

[tefftorbes 866]

I was stuck in a subclan trying to move up to the main clan. I was given a specific set of goals to achieve I hit these goals quicker then they thought I would. Was told I would have to wait until room in the clan was available. 

 

A week later people were kicked out/left the main clan for different reasons. Asked if it would be possible to move up the guy said he would think about it. Then I was told I was an important member in the subclan and I would be happier there. 

 

I left the next day.

 

I am telling you right here, right now - if you want to try to move up in the PETCO family, you are totally free to drop tags when you're ready to do so.  

[eawh 26]

FOXEY is a perfect fit for me currently. I don't believe in myself currently to move up. 

 

 

Seeing a overall yellow player with PBKAC/BADGR/OTTER tags may cause some interesting reactions.

[Assassin7 4,354]

I am telling you right here, right now - if you want to try to move up in the PETCO family, you are totally free to drop tags when you're ready to do so.

this.

Im moving up to PUPEH within the next few days, I Have talked to KingAlphyn, ADR, and Aleeshia about it, (I talked to ADR about FOXEY, but decided that DOGE would be a better fit for me due to several Reasons with time zones for CW time, and tier 10 requirements) and they are fine with joining up, infact, when I get the stats and tier 10s for it, apart from one post Worst made a few weeks ago saying they never took BURDY/PUOEH/FOXEY, I am sure i would be able to join PBKAC/OTTER with no problems if I wanted to.

[tefftorbes 866]

The wait list has to be so long at burdy that Aleeshia must breathe a sigh of relief whenever someone moves up. He he he.

[CarbonWard 3,529]

 

 

On that note, if you join a subclan and you're finding yourself too important for that subclan, if you just drop tags you can apply elsewhere. Your best players in CHA1 may be hamstrung if they only speak chinese, but you have to consider that as a minority problem for the playerbase as a whole.  There's nothing stopping your CHA1 guys from dropping tags and moving to one of the RELIC clans, or VILIN or OTTER or even G, except for the language barrier.  The bottom line is that for most of the player base in medium clan war clans, the top players in said clans could easily get in to a more competitive place.

 

That would be true, but you forgot to account for the fact that certain players, or as i should say, most players do get attached to their family of clans, thus is more willing to stay and wait for a chance to move up than to move to an entirely new clan.

 

But the fact of the matter is, when i have a 2000+ wn7 player in Cha1, it is more beneficial to me to keep him in Cha1 for as long as i could.

Why?

Because no person in the right mind would apply to Cha1 with 60d 2000+ wn7. While at any given time i would have 5+ apps of 2200+ to get into CHAI.

It would be much more beneficial for me to recruit from the outside and keep the guy in subclan than to reject the apps and move the guy upward, the only way for a subclan to gain combat strength is pretty much hope that the not-so-good player you recruited one day has an epiphany and become good, it is virtually impossible to recruit a really good player into a subclan.

 

And lets not get into how certain independent subclan leader might purposely delay your move so they can retain more combat strength.