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M4 Sherman: Tell me why I'm wrong to think the 76 mm Gun M1A1 rules.

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The issue with the M4 if you played it before and then now is play style. You used to be able to bully and intimidate even some of the higher tier tanks with the 105 and HEAT. Now unless you are in a tier V only game it really has to be played much more conservatively since HE is basically more effective overall than the HEAT rounds. I have no problem penning higher tier tanks you just have to play it like a tier five now. That is flanking for side, back, and other weak area spots.

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I've been grinding the M4 recently and haven't even tried the 76. When I played through the Pz IV I tried both the 75 and the 105 and did massively better with the 105, even running a 90% HE loadout. I'm too cheap to run many gold rounds and I just couldn't do consistent damage with the 75. Landing 2 HE for ~150 damage to a tier 7 is still better than bouncing 5 AP rounds. Is the pen on the M4 much better than the Pz IV?

In my opinion yes. Pz4's 75mm is much more accurate, but 128mm pen on the M4 is excellent.

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I use the 76mm, they're both good guns but the 76 is an awfully good gun for its tier while the 105 has pretty awful gun handling on the Sherman. If I want to 105 I use my PZ IV, its fire on the move is so much better which allows the awful bloom to be more manageable. I also find the 76mm gold ammo to be just as good or better fighting up than belching 105 HE for 70 a hit on a T29. 177 pen is no joke at tier 5.

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I like the 105s arcing trajectory, which actually enables you not only to go hull- but even turret-down. Obviously it's also pretty nice to for its ability to straight out murder soft high-priority targets (T49s, Hellcats, ... basically TDs in general).

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I think a case could be made that tier 5 is really the last time the 410 damage derps (U-11, 105mm, etc) are even slightly viable.

 

105mm vs tiers 3 and 4 is outrageously imba.

 

vs 5s-6s? Underwhelming, but can get the job done.

 

vs 7s? Really pushing it, not likely to get full pens without running gold AND hitting weakspots/side/rear on many tanks. Shooting HE will only net small amounts of damage barely above what you'd see from the 76 (though you get some module damage).

 

vs 8s? Woefully inadequate, you barely tickle many 8s with your anemic damage output with either HE OR HEAT. With the serious accuracy problems, you are almost totally useless against these vehicles.

 

 

The range of 3-7 still gives some use to the 105mm, since many games will have you top tier or seeing nothing worse than 6s, where it is still workable.

 

Once you uptier to 6 (34-85, E8, cromwell), you see so many more higher tier battles that it's absolutely not worth running. The risk of being almost totally useless in a tier 8 game is really high.

 

 

Just the thoughts of a baddie.

 

I like this answer best.

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Putting it on jumbo is obvious - you can keep that insane 150mm turret and damage any tank you see. M1A2 is not much of an upgrade in terms of pen/dmg and at tier 8 is weak. But I played M4 with 76 and was ok with that. Maybe next time I'll try 105 HE on M4. As for the first post - I hope you are firing HE and not standard ammo with that 105 mm gun.

 

I play the Jumbo with the 1st turret & the 76mm M1A1.  I LOVE running into a Jumbo with the derp.  I carry a spall liner in this tank (the only medium that I do this with).  I have a better handling gun & can usually peek-a-boom them before they can even ding me.  I have no problem brawling with a derp because face-hug only gives him my turret to shoot & I can normally pen his commanders hatch (with premium ammo).  I'm shooting faster & doing more damage. 

The derp has alot of issues with higher tier tanks.  My 76mm M1A1 can pen most tier 7's & alot of tier 8's (I use alot of premium ammo against 7's & 8's).

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I play the Jumbo with the 1st turret & the 76mm M1A1. I LOVE running into a Jumbo with the derp. I carry a spall liner in this tank (the only medium that I do this with). I have a better handling gun & can usually peek-a-boom them before they can even ding me. I have no problem brawling with a derp because face-hug only gives him my turret to shoot & I can normally pen his commanders hatch (with premium ammo). I'm shooting faster & doing more damage.

The derp has alot of issues with higher tier tanks. My 76mm M1A1 can pen most tier 7's & alot of tier 8's (I use alot of premium ammo against 7's & 8's).

This is the right answer here.^^^

Also, Kuroth is right about the 105. Deadly on a Tier 5 tank, anemic on a Tier 6.

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My experience is mostly on Jumbo 104mm, but I played M4 with 76. I considered 105 mm more reliable than 76 even at high tiers. You still do some dmg, while with 76 you may have problems. But I tend to don't use gold ammo if I can, so 105 is more valuable against hard targets. My DPG at Jumbo is 789, which is at the middle of my tier 6s (not counting TDs), but I think that nowadays I could achieve more. Also 105 is a bit more newbie friendly in terms of hitting weak spots. All of this relates to Jumbo, tier lower it is even more destructive, but 76 has enough penetration. So both ways are possible and each has its uses and slightly different playstyle. Sherman is great with 76, penetration is mostly enough. One shotting enemy is priceless, though. 76 is more reliable in terms of hitting and 105 in terms of doing some damage. So choose with your playstyle, maybe try both.

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The 76mm is great against tier 4/5 opponents...but once you start facing 6/7s who have so much HP dealing 115 damage just doesn't cut it.  The derp can still brutalize seals and at least force them to respect you.

So the answer is Derp? Is it always derp?

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I get what Garbad is saying, but when the 105 HE doesn't pen, the alpha is usually right around what you get from the 76mm...except at a much lower rate of fire, and with much worse accuracy and reticle bloom.

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I ran the M4 with the 76mm even prior to the 105 HEAT nerf, with 12 degrees of gun dep and adequate mobility I managed to make it work well enough. On the Easy 8 the 76mm simply works wonders and if you have learned how to make it work on the M4 before you should be golden for ownage.

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I like the 105s arcing trajectory, which actually enables you not only to go hull- but even turret-down.

^^^ This

 

Best thing about the 105 is taking lulzy arcing shots over rolling hills in 3rd person view. They don't even have LOS to shoot back at you.

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Sooo any one else feel like ol' M4 is lame now? Gun handling was always bad but now it has less turret armor, pitiful DPM, and the 105 got nerfed into "not really an option". Even with a great crew it feels meh. At least it's HD sexy I guess.

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Sooo any one else feel like ol' M4 is lame now? Gun handling was always bad but now it has less turret armor, pitiful DPM, and the 105 got nerfed into "not really an option". Even with a great crew it feels meh. At least it's HD sexy I guess.

 

I tried switching to the 76mm and it just felt so mediocre.  I don't play tier 5 much anymore, but the M4 has dropped off the list of tanks worth playing at that tier.  I'd rather run a Ram II or T-25.  At least they have some DPM and hit points.  Also, there's pretty much zero reason to play an M4 over a T49.

 

Let's have a moment of silence for the old M4 with 105 HEAT during weekend specials with double credits and 50% off premium rounds.  RIP.

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Sooo any one else feel like ol' M4 is lame now? Gun handling was always bad but now it has less turret armor, pitiful DPM, and the 105 got nerfed into "not really an option". Even with a great crew it feels meh. At least it's HD sexy I guess.

 

With the 76mm gun it feels like a shitty T1 HT. The 105mm gun stopped being good when they nerfed heat, and became completely irrelevant after the last nerf. It's a bland garbage tank just like the Pz. IV.

 

I have to agree with Dualmaster that tier 5 is not very enticing these days, btw. I played a lot of tier 5 tanks for the T34 event, and it's terrible down there at the moment. I sold most of them the second I had my XP together.

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It's really weird to me how they treated the M4. Even if it did over-perform, it wasn't one of those tanks that actually made people upset. It was just good. Its not like the turret nerf that came with the HD model wouldn't have toned it down anyway. Throw in the RoF nerfs and suddenly you're looking at another grind.

 

T-34 is now king of T5 MTs.

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I'm sucking out so badly in 7+ that I took out my T5 mediums last night. I've played maybe 10-15 games below tier 6 in the last several hundred.

 

Good lord is it bad down there... I remembered why I left.

 

I really enjoy the M4 even post nerf but I just don't play it any more because a) I hate tier 5 with a passion and b) it's a stat crusher because of all the pre-nerf OPness. When I play it, 76mm all the way. I'm finally adjusting to derp guns with the SU-152. I actually kind of like the boomstick on that one now that I'm starting to understand the mid-high tier meta a bit more, but otherwise, I'm seriously anti-derp. Dat (in)accuracy yo.

 

I MIGHT go back and try the derp on the KV-1 now that I understand things a bit better, but did I mention I hate tier 5? :D

 

I just bought the EZ8 finally. It seems nice. Very comfy. I'm not a huge fan of Tier 6 either to be honest but we'll see how it goes.

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I honestly think they need to remove the derp guns from the T5 meds, not because of OP but because one shot alpha at any tier is sucktastic. You either are hopelessly inadequate vs higher tier tanks or brokenly op against same tier. That doesn't make for a nice play experience either. Make the 76mm slightly better and you have a perfectly reasonable T5.

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Just noticed something interesting, the 105 performs better with the stock turret than the upgraded one.

 

Stock:

400 hitpoints

330m vision

7.5 RPM

0.55 acc

2.3s aim time

 

Upgraded:

460 hitpoints

370m vision

6.67 RPM

0.55 acc

2.5s aim time

 

 

Is it worth it to sacrifice the 60 hitpoints, vision and mantlet surface area for better gun characteristics?

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I had my deeply noob time with the M4 in NA ages ago and I forgot everything about it LOL

 

Started a fresh grind last night for the holy crusade to get pershing. Without the M1A1, even with the 105, it felt like an oversized M5 stuart 

 

Damn. the shitty WN8 result. statpadders and sealclubers all gone.

 

[update] use M1A1 jumped my DPG from 400 derp to 800 immediately. I don't really get into the derp for sure, and I felt my 75% crew hurt the derp more. However in current form M4 is just a poorer T49. No real reason to play it after grind.

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