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Garbad

Do you think TDs are a problem?

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I'm not debating which is better, simply debating these absolutes you like to use.

 

The SU-152 is clearly inferior to the SU-122-44 no matter which gun it mounts. Since the 122mm doesn't make the tank, and the tank itself isn't that great in the first place, I'd take the lulz and good fun the 152mm HE provides to help lighten the grind.

 

So in regards to the SU-152...

sJeJ0dc.jpg

Only matters if we are lining up revolutionary war style (or otherwise, somewhere hidden where you are getting shots as soon as the gun cycles).

 

The concept of DPM is a seriously flawed one, and is only reasonable in specific situations.  Sure you can maximize those situations by sniping with a good scout on your team.  But alpha is ALWAYS there.  The waste in alpha is on finishing shots.  The waste on DPM is downtime.

So you're hitting fairly reliably for 390 with the 122, or you're hitting for 300ish with the 152mm.

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So you're hitting fairly reliably for 390 with the 122, or you're hitting for 300ish with the 152mm.

 

Unless you consider sprem in which case you need consider 390 (2925 HP/min) and 700 (2373 HP/min) respectively.

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So in regards to the SU-152...

sJeJ0dc.jpg

 

Please provide an actual argument to back up your statement earlier that "using 152 HE over 122 AP is absolutely inane."

 

Every discussion I have ever seen on the 152/122 subject has been split, with both sides being understanding of the other. Take a gander at the SU-152 discussion in the Russian tank section on these forums.

 

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I do not think I have to say any more to show you don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

 

l2r....

 

i said IIIIIIIIIII SU, the tier 8!!! tank destroyer, a tier 8 td with 175 pen

 

ANYONE mounting the 122mm on the ISU is a braindead zombie, the 152mm derp with ONLY HE and AP is 10x better as the 122!!

 

and regarding SU-152

 

http://www.noobmeter.com/tank/eu/SU-152

 

im 3e best SU-152 driver or EU (this lists shifts a little depending on who plays when though) which is quite good, since i played almost 200 games with SU pre-gold ammo, so SU-152 with just HE and AP shells....

 

SU-152 HEAT -> SU-122-44

 

and

 

SU-152 HE** / AP*** -> SU-152 with 122mm (assuming you shoot no gold ammo at all)

 

** with HE you dont have to aim and you cause a lot of module dmg, you will(still) penetrate and 1 shot a whole bunch of stuff,

*** the AP shells have (due to big caliber) quite a good penetration against almost all tier 5-6-7-8 tanks, anything with thin armor gets triple overmatched (<50mm) and double normalisation vs <75mm, all you need to do is fight close range, so you can shoot side armor and turret sides, your huge alpha dmg makes close combat a viable tactic...

 

Also 135mm pen is same most t6 mediums, and they can penetrate all tanks up to tier 8 quite easy, if you cant, l2p.... (and this does not account for the 122, since you can not 1 shot / criple your opponent, so he can shoot back, thus you loose hp, also the 122 cant penetrate / damage any of the tier 8 / 9 tanks from the front, bare some mediums and a few paper tds

 

ps: and here difference between US and NA might show up, on EU ppl have no clue about reloading speeds, they only see / feel dmg, if they get hit for 350-450, they will attack, if they get hit for 600-800, they wont move....

 

EDIT: the SU-152 or SU-122 topics have been on EU forum a thousand times, and almost always most (sane) people say: use 152 the 122 is shit, i dont care hwo its on NA, this is the way it work on EU server...

Edited by GehakteMolen
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Unless you consider sprem in which case you need consider 390 (2925 HP/min) and 700 (2373 HP/min) respectively.

But the discussion is on 152mm HE, not HEAT

 

Please provide an actual argument to back up your statement earlier that "using 152 HE over 122 AP is absolutely inane."

 

Every discussion I have ever seen on the 152/122 subject has been split, with both sides being understanding of the other. Take a gander at the SU-152 discussion in the Russian tank section on these forums.

 

 

Considering your argument for the 152mm is "lulz and good fun" and the overall standing consensus is "HE is for morons", I think you need to prove your case.

 

Also, the consensus on that thread is that the 152mm is go HEAT or go home, I do not see how any of this is helping your case.

 

l2r....

 

i said IIIIIIIIIII SU, the tier 8!!! tank destroyer, a tier 8 td with 175 pen

 

ANYONE mounting the 122mm on the ISU is a braindead zombie, the 152mm derp with ONLY HE and AP is 10x better as the 122!!

I need to learn to read? I DID respond to the ISU, it's the post below that steered it to the SU-152

 

If people used the handy record of conversation that an internet forum represents they would see that this is about the SU-152 not the ISU, despite the typo EchelonIII quoted (context is such a powerful contributor to meaning, don't you think?).

Well, the fact that he's SERIOUS about recommending ISU 152mm HE means his argument is exactly as inane as thought.

 

and regarding SU-152

 

http://www.noobmeter.com/tank/eu/SU-152

 

im 3e best SU-152 driver or EU (this lists shifts a little depending on who plays when though) which is quite good, since i played almost 200 games with SU pre-gold ammo, so SU-152 with just HE and AP shells....

http://www.vbaddict.net/statistics.php?tier=7&tanktype=4&nation=0&premium=0&wotid=72008980676ef5eaa3d35194b8f63fb2&team=0&battles=1&groupby=0&fieldname=damage_dealt

1619 DPG, a whole 14 DPG more than mine, and I didn't even play it all that well... or are EU players just that bad that 1600 DPG gets you third place?

 

SU-152 HEAT -> SU-122-44

 

and

 

SU-152 HE** / AP*** -> SU-152 with 122mm (assuming you shoot no gold ammo at all)

 

** with HE you dont have to aim and you cause a lot of module dmg, you will(still) penetrate and 1 shot a whole bunch of stuff,

*** the AP shells have (due to big caliber) quite a good penetration against almost all tier 5-6-7-8 tanks, anything with thin armor gets triple overmatched (<50mm) and double normalisation vs <75mm, all you need to do is fight close range, so you can shoot side armor and turret sides, your huge alpha dmg makes close combat a viable tactic...

135mm of AP pen on the SU-152 usable against...

  • Tier 5? I'll give you that
  • Tier 6? Possibly, if you get a hit in, yeah why not; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here
  • Tier 7? If you manage to get hit on thin armor with the slow shell speed and the garbage accuracy, that is
  • Tier 8? You're a fucking moron

Also 135mm pen is same most t6 mediums, and they can penetrate all tanks up to tier 8 quite easy, if you cant, l2p....

By flanking perhaps, would you care to elaborate how the SU-152 is going to outflank a heavy?

 

(and this does not account for the 122, since you can not 1 shot / criple your opponent, so he can shoot back, thus you loose hp, also the 122 cant penetrate / damage any of the tier 8 / 9 tanks from the front, bare some mediums and a few paper tds

If a 122 can't pen it, a 152mm AP isn't penning it.

 

ps: and here difference between US and NA might show up, on EU ppl have no clue about reloading speeds, they only see / feel dmg, if they get hit for 350-450, they will attack, if they get hit for 600-800, they wont move....

 

EDIT: the SU-152 or SU-122 topics have been on EU forum a thousand times, and almost always most (sane) people say: use 152 the 122 is shit, i dont care hwo its on NA, this is the way it work on EU server...

 

lol. 152mm HE

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l2r....

 

i said IIIIIIIIIII SU, the tier 8!!! tank destroyer, a tier 8 td with 175 pen

 

ANYONE mounting the 122mm on the ISU is a braindead zombie, the 152mm derp with ONLY HE and AP is 10x better as the 122!!

 

BL-10 or GTFO

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Considering your argument for the 152mm is "lulz and good fun" and the overall standing consensus is "HE is for morons", I think you need to prove your case.

 

Also, the consensus on that thread is that the 152mm is go HEAT or go home, I do not see how any of this is helping your case.

 

I'm sorry I want to have fun playing tanks.

 

You must have misread that thread...

 

Servios, Antonio, some Orange guy, Shackram, fablak, admiraldoug, and Bobi, just on the first page, expressed favorable opinions on the usage of 152 HE. Most everybody in favor of the 152mm had a split loadout HEAT/HE.

 

I pretty sure most, if not all, of them have better stats that you.

 

Instead of trying to attack my points I think you should try to make some of your own.

 

Unless you don't have any.

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I'm sorry I want to have fun playing tanks.

 

You must have misread that thread...

 

Servios, Antonio, some Orange guy, Shackram, fablak, admiraldoug, and Bobi, just on the first page, expressed favorable opinions on the usage of 152 HE. Most everybody in favor of the 152mm had a split loadout HEAT/HE.

 

I pretty sure most, if not all, of them have better stats that you.

 

Instead of trying to attack my points I think you should try to make some of your own.

 

Unless you don't have any.

The history of your stands:

1. Spam HE!

2. Balance your use of HE and HEAT

Servios ran HE, and did sort of okay

Orange recommends HEAT

I tried both guns and prefer the 152 by far .

The su gun platform is too slow and clumsy to use the 122 effectively .

I prefer to get in , take a 750 damage shot , then get out for 15-20 s. with heat nerf I wonder if this will still work but even he on turret of armored tanks will do good module damage.

IMO 122-44 is way better suited for the dpm role.

But hey , if jack made it work ... Try both and see which one you prefer.

Shackram recommends HEAT

While the HEAT mechanic was changed, the 152mm HEAT itself was buffed, it gets 250mm pen now.

 

I got one yesterday and it's quite fun to run with the 152mm howitzer. I carry 4 AP, 9 HEAT and 13 HE shells atm. I was running with EGLD, rammer and camo net, just replaced the rammer with vents to see how it works.

Fablkak recommends HEAT

152mm all the way. I got redshire a few days ago and 152mm HEAT derped my way to 2000 xp and 5700 damage.

I carry 1/2 HEAT 1/2 HE. I take the unlikely shots with HE and 50%+ probability shots with HEAT. Changing to HE for arty and light tanks is also useful because in the case of light tanks even a miss will do the job. Also, if they are side scraping or only showing a little bit of a track around a corner shoot HE and do good damage.

 

5700 damage replay featuring a tiger II being set on fire and killed with a miss from a HE round!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57796096/20130704_2346_ussr-SU-152_34_redshire.wotreplay

Admiraldoug recommends HEAT

I'm using Vents and Food (with Rammer/GLD and repair/med kits) for the accuracy and turn speed boosts and doing 1650 damage a game and knowing I could do more. I start with HE and stay second line or further back. Direct hit should do 300 damage to anything at least, hopefully tracking it and killing crew. Switch to HEAT when you need the guaranteed 700ish damage and can aim for weakspots. Maybe my 300ish games in the Hetzer a year and a half ago helped me play this, try not to be front line until mid/late game where you can one shot things. Setup at positions with LOS on where you know tanks will be, with the ability to pull back into cover after you shoot. Having 6th sense, like all non-arty, is really useful.

Bobi recommends HEAT

Just finished the grind. I used 152 all the way.

It sometimes fails in accuracy, but it makes up for it by being so versatile. AP rounds demolish <t7 tanks, HEAT is great vs high tiers with huge profiles like E75, ST-I, Tortoise... My main round was HE for most of the games tho. It can do 400 dmg from any range to anything on the battlefield ;)

 

It took me a lot of games to learn how to use the troll gun, where to aim with HEAT, when to switch ammo etc, but it has been fun for the last 20 games or so.

I did not think that I would like it, but I now think it's the best T7 TD! It's not the best one in pure tier 7 games, but oh boy it crushes those big 'n' slow t8+ tanks.

Oh while we're at it, look at all the other people who recommend using HEAT 152 if not the 122

I used the top 122mm for the SU-152, it's a shame not to use one of the highest DPM vehicles in the game. Basically you are second line fire support, watch for where your teammates are advancing and set up to support them from a reasonable distance

 

If you don't have the 122s, then use HE for more reliable damage, but gradually transition to more HEAT as you get the hang of weakspots and gun behavior. Once you get the 122, just keep clicking until things die/or you run out of ammo

 

In city maps I try to lock down a lane if I get there first, or I will follow the heavy armor in the team and keep mindful of enemy reload times. Open maps, take position preferably where you cannot be spotted when firing, and support where enemies may be spotted by your advancing force

I would say after playing a fair number of battles in the Su-152 that you absolutely need to stick with the stock gun. Fire HEAT or AP, whatever you're comfortable with but I'd really suggest HEAT, and take satisfaction your 5-hits 3500 damage pub games. You need to always stay back, the gun is more accurate than it seems.

 

Your tank cannot withstand frontline fire and it is too unwieldy to get in and out, so just stay out. Lob death from a decent range and with good cover and you'll be fine.

Stockpile silver. Load HEAT. Shoot flat surfaces. Grin like crazy.

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Please point to where I said "favors HE over HEAT." I favor the 152mm HEAT round over HE. I said "favourable opinions on usage of HE" aka they like this shell enough to use it.

 

orange: but even he on turret of armored tanks will do good module damage

 

shack: I carry 4 AP, 9 HEAT and 13 HE shells atm

 

fablak: I carry 1/2 HEAT 1/2 HE

 

admiraldoug:  I start with HE and stay second line or further back

 

bobi: My main round was HE for most of the games tho

 

All of the opinions for the 122mm just back up my earlier statement that the discussion is split.

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@echelon, stop trolling, 122 mm on ISU is 1 of the worst possible tank platforms of the game, its in terms of retardation on the same level as E75 with 88 or a VK-A with 88 short....

 

ANYONE using the 122mm gun on the ISU is either not paying atention (they just mount the highest tier gun, and dont look further) or a mental ill idiot, no discussion possible.... and if you can not see this, just omg....

 

Also the accuracy of SU-152 is fine (for the platform and damage),the ``rebalance of accuracy`` turned the derp into a decent mid and long range sniper, i just played arctic region, camped on balcony entire game, only shoot targets at about ~500m, and hit 7/11 (and splashed a T21, i shot in front of him on purpose, so he would be detracked) so 3 miss on about the maximum shooting distance....

 

and all shots where HE, except first shot on M103 (800 dmg with HEAT) in total 3154 dmg, with just HE against tier 9 enemys, GL to try that with that shitty 122....

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Please point to where I said "favors HE over HEAT." I favor the 152mm HEAT round over HE. I said "favourable opinions on usage of HE" aka they like this shell enough to use it. 

orange: but even he on turret of armored tanks will do good module damage

 

shack: I carry 4 AP, 9 HEAT and 13 HE shells atm

 

fablak: I carry 1/2 HEAT 1/2 HE

 

admiraldoug:  I start with HE and stay second line or further back

 

bobi: My main round was HE for most of the games tho

 

All of the opinions for the 122mm just back up my earlier statement that the discussion is split.

It's odd how you don't mention HEAT at all.

 

Spamming HE in the 152 is good fun.

 

@echelon, stop trolling, 122 mm on ISU is 1 of the worst possible tank platforms of the game, its in terms of retardation on the same level as E75 with 88 or a VK-A with 88 short....

Your recommendation is to use the ISU's ML-20 to fire AP with 135mm of penetration, and to fire 152mm HE shells.

At tier 8.

In terms of retardation, this is just about the most retarded thing I've ever read.

ANYONE using the 122mm gun on the ISU is either not paying atention (they just mount the highest tier gun, and dont look further) or a mental ill idiot, no discussion possible.... and if you can not see this, just omg....

As I said, 152mm HE, lol.

Also the accuracy of SU-152 is fine (for the platform and damage),the ``rebalance of accuracy`` turned the derp into a decent mid and long range sniper, i just played arctic region, camped on balcony entire game, only shoot targets at about ~500m, and hit 7/11 (and splashed a T21, i shot in front of him on purpose, so he would be detracked) so 3 miss on about the maximum shooting distance....

You were able to aim and detrack a T21 at 500 meters. I'd call you were lucky even to HIT him.

and all shots where HE, except first shot on M103 (800 dmg with HEAT) in total 3154 dmg, with just HE against tier 9 enemys, GL to try that with that shitty 122....

Anecdotal evidence again? You sound like a red.

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Your recommendation is to use the ISU's ML-20 to fire AP with 135mm of penetration, and to fire 152mm HE shells.

At tier 8.

You were able to aim and detrack a T21 at 500 meters. I'd call you were lucky even to HIT him.

Anecdotal evidence again? You sound like a red.

 

1: ISU can carry enough ammo, so you pick 5 AP and rest HE (AP just for side shots / when facing low tier trash) HE for the rest reliable 300-400 dmg on all ranges + chance for massive dmg is way better as 50% chance to deal 300 dmg (coz you will NEVER hit and penetrate more as 50% with that 122mm joke gun...

 

2: ofc i can, just lead a little and shoot, its easy, look the video is posted, i can herp derp scouts going 60km/h this t21 went 35 or so

 

3: this game was far from amazing, it was just an above average game... (avg is between 1500-3k, and once in a while a yolo game with 4-6k)

 

ps: my avg dmg went up from 1100 to 1600 or so, and since i played 200 games without HEAT (it was 197 or 198 games with SU-152, i might have a ss somewhere) so thats means i average around 2200 or so nowadays (rough guesetimate)

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It's odd how you don't mention HEAT at all.

 

The debate wasn't about HEAT at first, it was 152 HE against 122 AP.

 

Anyways, the fact that several people who are good@tanks run HE in the 152mm makes using it over 122 AP not "absolutely inane."

 

If you stop posting in absolutes a lot of people, especially these eurofegs new to the #ech3experience (this hard on they have for you is hilarious, I'm jealous), would take your poasting a lot easier.

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Good day, fellow tankers...

 

First of all, this thread has become out of control (yes, I've read it all.. phew!).

It seems like the second half is only people insulting each other, name calling, and frankly, not much evidence to back up.

 

I participated in tread and was firmly opposed to changes in high tier TDs, lacking any decent argument challenging the status quo.

I do NOT believe TDs are overpowered, but from many decent points made by people in this thread, I now understand and agree that the current configuration damages the quality of gameplay.

 

I'll try to remain as objective as possible in summarizing valid points brought to attention in this thread and will of course add my grain of salt...

 

- Because of their high alpha, most high tier TDs negatively impact game enjoyability by forcing people to hide in fear of extreme damage. This aspect is emphasized by the fact that high tier TDs have excellent camouflage values as well as good view range, thus, there is a good chance a high tier TD will manage to take a shot at an adventurous tank before he even knows he's spotted (6th sense).

I believe this is absolutely true in the current state of the game. Most maps have major choke points where TDs can face and shoot at incoming tanks. This however is a problem only if there is a rather large number of TDs on the field, as one or two TDs covering a choke point will likely be spotted and destroyed  without the ability to effectively kill one tank of the same tier if flooded by enemies. The only valid exception is the WTE100.

Also on the "high alpha problem", people have to understand one thing about the FV215b 183. When you get one shot by one, it will stick in your memory and you'll perceive the tank as overpowered for this reason, but when you run your Bat. Chat., get shot by a 183 and take only 300 damage from a 8000 credit HESH shell, not so much. The 183 gun is extremely unreliable at medium-long range and quite unreliable at short range. It feels like an artillery piece in TD mode. You will miss most of your shots unless you wait the full aim time, and even then, RNG is all over the place with this gun and a seemingly well aimed shot might very well miss. The tank has bad camouflage, thus usually, if you are going to take a shot, there is a very good chance you take one in return. Another point to keep in mind is if you hit spaced armor or fail to penetrate, your shot's damage will follow HE rules, which always ends up being under what a tier 9 TD with AP would do. In other words, yes, the FV215b 183 can one shot tanks, but it is extremely unreliable at doing so. I believe this factor alone makes the 183 gun balanced. (Notice I say the gun, not the whole tank).

Now to fix this problem, it was suggested to lower the alpha and the reload time to keep DPM. It was also suggested to lower alpha and keep the same reload time to decrease DPM and finally, it was suggested to decrease the alpha and increase reload time, thus reducing DPM in a critical manner.

I believe tank destroyer DPM needs to remain high and the reason for this is the fear factor is critical to TD role. Nobody is scared of taking one shot from a 263 or Tortoise. However, people are scared to take multiple shots from those tanks, which means the fear factor remains. What this tells us is reducing alpha and reload time to keep the same DPM would make people less scared of moving from cover to cover, for example, but still scared to go out in the open like morons, which is a good thing.

There are exceptions to this. Firstly, the WTE100 is too accurate and shoots too fast for a reduced alpha to do anything. An increased time between shots but lower reload time would be appropriate in this case.

Secondly, The T110E4 has incredibly low DPM compared to other tier 10 TDs, thus I believe an alpha/reload time reduction is not needed.

The JPZE100 should not rely on high alpha as much. Lower alpha (such as 850) but much higher reload speed (around 12 seconds with equipments and crew), would raise its DPM, which would make a lot of sense, since it is clumsy and slow.

The FV215b 183 is balanced as is, as stated above, but changes can be made to make it more enjoyable (see below).

 

- The second issue that comes out a lot is TDs have great view range and camouflage. Different people suggested both these aspects be nerfed and it was mentioned that TD camouflage bonus might be removed. This is a problem because TDs are able to spot their own targets without being detected themselves, making certain areas of most maps dead zones.

I believe this is also very true. Logically speaking, camouflage should rely only on 2 things: the size of a tank and the size of its gun. However, let's remember that this is a game. Light tanks get camouflage bonuses because of their role, and I think TDs should as well. I don't know the actual values of this bonus, but I think it might be too important. I think the tank size should dictate the camouflage value and a fixed bonus for TDs of 10-20% should be added. Also, shooting a 183mm gun should impact camouflage significantly more than shooting a 128mm, which is already the case.

Also, for a higher quality game experience, view range should be so that on hypothetical flat terrain with no cover or obstruction, a moving top tier light tank should spot any still TD before it is itself spotted. I don't feel like crunching numbers, but I think this would mean a view range of around 370-380m for tier 10 TDs.

 

- The third issue I pick up is about the maps. Some people mention that maps now have a lot more choke points than before, a lot more cover and are consequently much easier for TDs to effectively "stall".

I think this is also true, but might not be relevant with the current problem. What I mean is, no matter how good map designers are, there will always be ups and downs to every map. Hot spots, dead zones, open terrain, choke points and several valid approach routes. I don't think a map can have too many choke points or too much cover. I however agree that some maps in World of Tanks lack enough viable routes. Although, this is not a design flaw, but rather a size limitation issue. The maps are too small for more than 2-3 viable main routes to be available at tier 10 with most tanks having view ranges over 400 meters with crew skills and equipment. I say this is not relevant to the current problem because this is an issue that affects every tank class. It doesn't give more of an advantage to TDs than it gives to heavies, mediums or lights. Bigger maps would be nice, though.

 

To summarize,

 

General changes that could be made:

Camouflage has to be reduced so that any full spec immobile TD may be spotted by a top tier light tank before it can spot it back.

View range should be reduced according to the same rule (no change in light tank camouflage).

 

Tank-specific changes:

 

T110E3:

650 Damage instead of 850 and reload speed increased to keep the same DPM.
 

T110E4

No changes

 

JpzE100

850 Damage and reload time should be brought up to 3.0 - 3.5 rounds per minute.

 

WtE100

Time between shots doubled for 128, but reload time reduced accordingly to keep the same DPM. No changes to 150.

 

Obj 263

No changes

 

Obj 268

650 Damage instead of 850 and reload speed increased to keep the same DPM.

 

Foch 155

650 Damage instead of 850. Time between shots stays the same (considering accuracy), but reload speed increased to keep the same DPM.

 

FV215 183

As stated above, I believe the gun is balanced as is, but in order to make it more fun to play, lower alpha (1500 for HESH, AP stays the same, because it's useless), higher reload speed to match DPM and aim time at 3.0s and accuracy at 0.35m would be nice. This way, the gun will be less frustrating to use, but will not be able to 1 shot as easily (and will lose ability to 1 shot most tier 9-10 tanks).

 

One last thing...

I don't know which patch number changed this, but the fact that we can't see incoming shell trajectory is a problem, in my opinion, with TDs especially, but also with mediums and heavies. I think shell trajectory should be fully visible within a given angle (10-20 degrees sounds fair). I think artillery should be limited to the same angle limitations, however, so they don't get the ability to spot with precision the location of a tank because it is shooting.

 

TL;DR: Sorry, long post. Have to read it all!

Cheers,

32

 

 

edit: I used the word objective.. Stuff in bold is "objective", the rest is my opinion. Sorry if there was misunderstanding.

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By flanking perhaps, would you care to elaborate how the SU-152 is going to outflank a heavy?

 

 

You'd better bring some AP for that 152 if heavies show their sides or the tracks will eat all of the HE/HEAT shots (given that the gun is so widely inaccurate that you kind have to go for a center mass shot)

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1: ISU can carry enough ammo, so you pick 5 AP and rest HE (AP just for side shots / when facing low tier trash) HE for the rest reliable 300-400 dmg on all ranges + chance for massive dmg is way better as 50% chance to deal 300 dmg (coz you will NEVER hit and penetrate more as 50% with that 122mm joke gun...

Let's assume your 152mm hits for 500 average (to allow for a HE pen). That's 1755 DPM, I can afford to bounce a third of my shells and STILL do 2k DPM

Never hit an pen more than 50% with the 122mm? First you say 135mm pen is effective against up to tier 8, and suddenly 175mm of pen is ineffective (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you won't claim the BL-9S is worse than the ML-20, but with your stand on HE, you never know).

The ISU would STILL face 6-7-8 tanks, by your logic, it would penetrate perfectly well, it's only 9s that this tank would have trouble with sans-BL-10.

*** the AP shells have (due to big caliber) quite a good penetration against almost all tier 5-6-7-8 tanks, anything with thin armor gets triple overmatched (<50mm) and double normalisation vs <75mm, all you need to do is fight close range, so you can shoot side armor and turret sides, your huge alpha dmg makes close combat a viable tactic...

2: ofc i can, just lead a little and shoot, its easy, look the video is posted, i can herp derp scouts going 60km/h this t21 went 35 or so

You mean as long as they're moving predictably, the shell travel time of the 152 alone is enough to prevent any accurate shots.

3: this game was far from amazing, it was just an above average game... (avg is between 1500-3k, and once in a while a yolo game with 4-6k)

 

ps: my avg dmg went up from 1100 to 1600 or so, and since i played 200 games without HEAT (it was 197 or 198 games with SU-152, i might have a ss somewhere) so thats means i average around 2200 or so nowadays (rough guesetimate)

 

So your average damage was 1100 before HEAT....

 

The debate wasn't about HEAT at first, it was 152 HE against 122 AP.

 

Anyways, the fact that several people who are good@tanks run HE in the 152mm makes using it over 122 AP not "absolutely inane."

 

If you stop posting in absolutes a lot of people, especially these eurofegs new to the #ech3experience (this hard on they have for you is hilarious, I'm jealous), would take your poasting a lot easier.

The Eurofegs can't even put together a coherent stand to begin with.
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The SU-152 has fantastic cammo and is well suited to sitting back and leveraging DPM.

 

Setting aside the argument of whether 217mm of pen is enough or not at tier 7,  let's compare HE spam of the 152mm vs the 122mm:

 

152mm:

0.5 acc, 

3.4s aim time

15.9 sec reload (with rammer) = 3.77 rpm

 

assuming 50% HE damage - 910/2 x 3.77 = 1715 dpm

 

122mm

0.41 acc

2.9s aim time

6.7 sec reload (with rammer) = 8.95 rpm

 

465/2 x 8.95 = 2080 dpm

 

Conclusion:  The 122mm is way more accurate, aims faster and has 18% more dpm spamming HE (and 24% more when firing AP/APCR).

 

The 122mm also worked a lot better for me.

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This thread started out decent. But it sure as hell turned to shit with all the inflated e-egos in here.

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New ASAP: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/01/16/8-11-asap/

Alpha nerf, Foch loses 1/3 of engine power and 268 gets a HEAT nerf.

Now we're getting somewhere.

 

That post has incorrect information, Foch 155 has only 1200hp engine and not 1500hp, so it will get ~17% nerf, down to 1000hp

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That post has incorrect information, Foch 155 has only 1200hp engine and not 1500hp, so it will get ~17% nerf, down to 1000hp

Yeah, they spotted that back on ASIA. The new HP/T is "from just over 20t to ~17.4 hp/ton" according to Laserbeam.
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- camo for TDs will be reworked, Veider confirms that TDs will lose their class camo bonus
- TD’s as a whole (the entire class) will be rebalanced, the tier 10 nerf is not the final solution, more like a temporary one

 

This just in from FTR. Storm commenting on the new patch.

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http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/01/16/storm-talking-about-asap-8-11-video/

 

- Waffenträger E-100 will be nerfed in following parameters: hull traverse, aim spread when turret is rotating, turret rotation speed

 

What the hell is the point of those nerfs anyway? Gun will still have laser accuracy and it can still clip any tank in the game.

 

Foch 155 DPM nerf and 268 HEAT nerf doesn't come as a surprise although 395 HEAT ammo should still punch through everything with relative ease.

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