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dead_man_walking

Lower tier learning v stats

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OK - First attempt to ask a "meaningful" question!

 

I generally hand out the advice to go back to the lower tiers to "learn" the basics, re-learn how to read the ebb and flow of the game.  Having done that I've noticed that my stats have been affected as my average tier is now lower over 60 days :(  But I've noticed that my game play is improving in general. 

 

So the big question is - do I ignore my stats for a while longer and continue to work on those areas that need work at level that is more "forgiving" or do I move back up to the higher tiers to save my stats?

 

I'm working on things like my angling, taking that fraction longer to make sure I do damage rather than just hitting etc.  By using the lower tiers (where it is more forgiving & cheaper!) I'm surviving longer and being able to improve those aspects, as I've noticed the difference when I do credit runs in my T34 (and yes I know my stats suck in that tank ;) ).

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I don't think you get much better by playing low tiers. It's too forgiving of mistakes, and your stats will get better but your actual skills will not. It's all about learning from mistakes. If low tiers aren't punishing your mistakes, then you won't know you're doing something wrong.

 

It helps to sit for a minute after every game and think back to what you could've done better, even for wins. What was the first decision that was wrong? Did you take avoidable damage at some point, which could've been useful later? Was there a very good opponent that ripped you apart? What did you do wrong that let him do that (was it something you did that caused him to decided to push you)? What made him particularly effective (positioning/decision/timing/etc.)?

 

I've found all these questions cause me to reflect on mistakes and hopefully I won't make them in the future, thus improving.

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I don't think you get much better by playing low tiers. It's too forgiving of mistakes, and your stats will get better but your actual skills will not. It's all about learning from mistakes. If low tiers aren't punishing your mistakes, then you won't know you're doing something wrong.

 

It helps to sit for a minute after every game and think back to what you could've done better, even for wins. What was the first decision that was wrong? Did you take avoidable damage at some point, which could've been useful later? Was there a very good opponent that ripped you apart? What did you do wrong that let him do that (was it something you did that caused him to decided to push you)? What made him particularly effective (positioning/decision/timing/etc.)?

 

I've found all these questions cause me to reflect on mistakes and hopefully I won't make them in the future, thus improving.

At the moment I get punished for some of my really stupid mistakes (the ones I'm trying to eradicate from my game)!  Granted that once you are no longer being punished you should move on from the lower tiers, I'll rephrase the question - is it worth taking the time to go back to the lower tiers to work on something that you are being punished for consistently at the expense of your stats (anit pedotanker bias in WN7) or should you be seeing your stats as your first concern as these are the only measure we have of how well we are performing/improving?

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At the moment I get punished for some of my really stupid mistakes (the ones I'm trying to eradicate from my game)!  Granted that once you are no longer being punished you should move on from the lower tiers, I'll rephrase the question - is it worth taking the time to go back to the lower tiers to work on something that you are being punished for consistently at the expense of your stats (anit pedotanker bias in WN7) or should you be seeing your stats as your first concern as these are the only measure we have of how well we are performing/improving?

 

I think since low tiers are less punishing, so it'll feel better but you don't feel the sting of your mistakes as much. The learning process will be slower. Also, the game is so different between low and high tiers that I think to really start picking up the finer points that make better players different, you really need to stick to high tiers. It helps to be extremely critical of your own play. Another benefit of playing higher tiers is you play with better players on average, so you can see what they're doing and learn along the way.

 

The problem with trying to learn in lower tiers is sometimes those mistakes (such as being super aggressive) do work, and it can make you look in the wrong direction when you do get caught out. High tiers will more consistently punish you for mistakes, which helps identify what your flaws are.

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I think since low tiers are less punishing, so it'll feel better but you don't feel the sting of your mistakes as much. The learning process will be slower. Also, the game is so different between low and high tiers that I think to really start picking up the finer points that make better players different, you really need to stick to high tiers. It helps to be extremely critical of your own play. Another benefit of playing higher tiers is you play with better players on average, so you can see what they're doing and learn along the way.

 

The problem with trying to learn in lower tiers is sometimes those mistakes (such as being super aggressive) do work, and it can make you look in the wrong direction when you do get caught out. High tiers will more consistently punish you for mistakes, which helps identify what your flaws are.

it's a sea of red at low and high tiers on the SEA/APAC/ASIA server regardless!

 

I get what you are saying ... can't wait for this campaign to be over and stop grinding PZIII/PZIV crews up and back into the grind I wanted to be doing (T69)

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It will help a ton if you can find a player better than you that's willing to regularly platoon with you and maybe mentor you a little. Many finer points about specific tanks pretty much require either reading outside the game or someone else telling you. For example, the IS-3's armor is only useful when the nose of the tank is pointing directly at the enemy, and any angling makes the armor on the tank very weak. T34's have very soft hull armor, but decent turret armor and good gun depression, so finding hull down spots allow you to exploit that.

 

As for what to improve, that's for you to decide. The final goal should be to improve your winrate, since the goal of the game is to win. Winning in lower tiers is easier due to average skill rising with tier, so take that into account. The best metric after winrate is damage per game. Do whatever you can to improve that (especially for anything that isn't a scout). Your survival rate looks a little low to me, so you may be playing a little too aggressively and dying to early. Staying alive (while dealing damage!) will help you increase your damage per game, which should improve your winrate. At this point, I'm repeating a lot of what's on the rest of the forums, so go check out some of the how to improve posts.

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My survival rate is generally based on the fact that in the early days there was no reward for damage on spotting - the only reward (XP/Credits) you got was sui-scouting faster than the other scout on your team to find the enemy!  After that 10K battles of not caring doesn't help :(

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Seems like you have a fair understanding of the game.

 

It's just about consistency more than anything. Every player will have the occasional good game, it's just that the better players (not me) will have more good games, more often.

One shouldn't be too focused on stats, but try and use them to see what you think you can improve on (don't just look at w/r), and set yourself small goals.

 

Before I transferred from NA to SEA I was sitting on just over 48%w/r, after having played just under 10k games. All my stats have increased in the following 4k games, but I still want to improve, and my next goal is to bring my damage per battle up to 1k+ by hopefully (if I'm still playing) 20k games.

Also; platooning with good players helps you survive more which will enable you to do more damage.../get back to base to reset.../protect you when you cap.

Hope this helps mate. 

CS.

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I'm not a huge fan of the lower tiers.

 

Because the tanks in those tiers are mostly slow, completely lacking in armour and hitpoints while capable of outputting lots of damage quickly it doesn't give you a good feel for the slower, more measured pace of high-tier play.

 

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Tier IX is where it's at.

 

Well it was while I was there.

 

You get all the tier VIII pwnage with only some of the tier X srs bns. If it's about stats then that's where you wanna be 'cause you're capable of dealing so much damage without even trying and stacking points while you lead the push.

 

If you really want to get better at tanks, play the tanks you want to get better at. - Platitudesrus

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I would generally avoid any tier lower than 5 because I find the gameplay to be boring and counter production when it comes to improving my skills as a player. This is mainly because I feel that they are very imbalanced, i.e. 105 derp.

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What exactly is "lower tiers" in your statement.?  Tier 5 is about as low as I'll go, until we have to break out Tier 1's on Monday...You go much lower, and like everyone has said, you don't learn much about mechanics.  A great tank to learn spotting, hiding, and OMG I can't take any shots is the T49.  That thing will teach you quick when to pew pew and when to break off engagements and run for a bush to rehide in...

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Tier 5 is really where the game begins. If you are practicing in tier 3s or something like that, just stop.

Tier 5 is really the first point in the game where you are not constantly facing a sea of all red. It is also the point where there really starts to be more predictability in the behavior of other players rather than watching random people just drive up the center of Karelia. It is also the point at which most of the people you're facing have 85% or better crews, enough view range that you can't often sit in the open at 250 meters, and where you face heavy tanks on a regular basis.

You can still get away with a lot more than at the higher tiers, but more people you face are capable of punishing you for those mistakes.

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Also tier 5 is where tank roles/specializations really start to matter-- tier 5 heavies, mediums, lights, and tds all start to really 'play to their roles' like they will at higher tiers.

 

As for what to do, the obsession for stats has created a weird mentality where people obsess over their stats and try and figure out what to do to improve them.  If all you care about is stats, then there are a number of ways to pad them. 

 

If your goal is to improve your play, then focus on that completely and the improved stats will follow naturally.  Use your recent (7/30/60 day) stats to track your progress of improvement, try and focus on a small number of mechanics/play elements at a time, and be honest with yourself about where you messed up and what you could have done better.

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