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Impossible to have optimal WN7 and optimal winrate.

  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you rather have superior winrate or WN7?

  2. 2. Is the theory an accurate one?

    • Very much.
    • Pretty good.
    • Not a very good theory.
    • This theory can't be applied since it is to bad.
    • Don't understand the theory.


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WN7 is affected by winrate so that messes things up a bit but the theory is still quite sound.

Bad teams are bad so a player has more opportunity to get damage, kills and various other things. If a person has a good team then they won't get as much stuff since the good team mates will get some damage, kills and stuff. So a person can achieve a very high winrate via platooning and tank companies but the damage, kills and stuff would be more spread out. If a person doesn't platoon (or platoons with bad players) they can farm more damage, kills and stuff which results in higher WN7 but a lower winrate. 

Just something interesting that I thought about. 

An accurate theory or a bad one?

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It's sort of accurate, but only when you're playing in some pretty exalted company.  A full triple purple platoon will duel one another for damage/kills, so yeah, that will depress WN7 a little bit.  That said, unless you're dealing with damage dealers of purple class, it's honestly  not all that big an effect.

 

In the end, the goal is win uber alles.  WNx is merely a measurement.

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Meh, I'm not sure. A platoon opens up many more opportunities for damage/kills that you otherwise wouldn't have. For example, if there's a td around the corner, you could communicate to your platoonmates to go around and flank him. When he turns his gun, you would have opportunities to shoot. In a normal pub game, you wouldn't have the same opportunity. 

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If they're both purple I'm happy  8)

 

I could prob push an extra 100-200 wn7 I'm sure by damage farming / kill securing but then I think my win rate would drop a bit from shitty stats boosting play , but anyway nobody looks at just one figure it's the entire package that counts , tanks played , dpb , win rate , WN7/8 ect ect 

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As I understand it, the crux of your theory is that playing with bad players boosts your WN7?  Tell you what, try platooning with a couple of 42%ers for a week and let me know how that works out for your WN7.  My theory would be that it won't be pretty.

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Platooning hurts your stats.  If you don't believe me, platoon with sela and watch your KPG.

 

LOL, "Lights please"  It is fun to watch though.

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Platooning hurts your stats. If you don't believe me, platoon with sela and watch your KPG.

True. Miros did an experiment way back on the official forums, where he compared his stats where he was platooning to his stats where he wasn't.

You'll have to ask him if you want to dig out the whole topic but I think he sacrificed lots of WN6/7 for a small amount of WR (+2% I think) when he platooned, rather than his normal stats. I'd rather have 200 more WN7 than 2% more WR if you ask me. Doesn't stop me tooning though.

Woody

P.S. Nice to finally meet the mighty, arty-hating Garbad :P

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As I understand it, the crux of your theory is that playing with bad players boosts your WN7?  Tell you what, try platooning with a couple of 42%ers for a week and let me know how that works out for your WN7.  My theory would be that it won't be pretty.

I'll try that.

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True. Miros did an experiment way back on the official forums, where he compared his stats where he was platooning to his stats where he wasn't.

You'll have to ask him if you want to dig out the whole topic but I think he sacrificed lots of WN6/7 for a small amount of WR (+2% I think) when he platooned, rather than his normal stats. I'd rather have 200 more WN7 than 2% more WR if you ask me. Doesn't stop me tooning though.

Woody

P.S. Nice to finally meet the mighty, arty-hating Garbad :P

I did a comparison a while back as well.  I think I saw like +15% win rate but -15% DPG.  Exp/game was the same.

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I don't know what you all are complaining about, platooning helps all my stats...

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The answer to this question could depend on the skill level of the player.  I'm a blue/green player & I am often making the choice of returning to my cap to protect the win or to continue forward providing the chance to increase my damage done "mopping up".  I will normally choose to return to protect the cap when I see the other flank is down.  I've saved numerous games by going back & preventing the enemy from capping.  Of course, what's not to say we would have won the game anyway if I decided to finish the "mop up" & assume somebody else would stop the cap.

 

I'm guessing that the unicum players put themselves in better positions & crush the enemy wholesale preventing them from even making a push.  However, me & my slow-ass computer aren't able to turn the entire enemy team to jello.  I also often find alot of situations where a middle-late game "scouting" run often turns the balance of the game.  I'm often playing a mobile medium or td & decide to make this run to give the team a better chance to win.  Often, moving forward & lighting 3 tanks with my Hellcat hurts my WN7 but, helps my win rate. 

 

Maybe my actions in these situations aren't helping my long-term win rate.  I do know that when I don't take care of the cap, my side gets beat by capping alot more than when I protect the cap.   

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It's not obvious to me that purple platooning should hurt WN7. On one hand, you have two good players competing with you for damage. On the other hand, you have two good players ensuring that your team doesn't suicide in the first few minutes of the match. So you get fewer six kill games but also fewer full failure cascades.

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Perhaps the key is to platoon with greenies like me. We won't whore damage (for your WN7), but we *usually* won't do anything obviously stupid (for your WR).

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Also, scouts.

Wins where you contribute situational awareness and spotting damage instead of tangible damage are pretty harsh on your WN7, especially with mid-tier scouts.

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As I understand it, the crux of your theory is that playing with bad players boosts your WN7? Tell you what, try platooning with a couple of 42%ers for a week and let me know how that works out for your WN7. My theory would be that it won't be pretty.

Any point can be taken to extremes. I think his point is valid in the majority of circumstances. I platoon often with a couple 50%erz whom i know IRL and it is a great mix of wins and stats for me.

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I actually average much more dmg in the waifu solo than plat.

Solo I camp a useless spot entire game and get free damage because lol maps are so linear, in platoons I have to use my hp and stuff and help my platoon to win, can't camp back of cliffs entire gamr

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Any point can be taken to extremes. I think his point is valid in the majority of circumstances. I platoon often with a couple 50%erz whom i know IRL and it is a great mix of wins and stats for me.

 

 

I actually agree with you 100%, but I'm looking at it from a different point of view.  While it seems that the majority of posters on this forum are unicums, they are still a rarity among players.  While platooning with peers may hurt a unicum's ability to farm damage or max out their WN7, I don't believe this to be the case with just average players like myself.  At my (and most players) level, platooning with worse players is going to tank not only your winrate, but also your ability to farm WN7 since your team will fold too fast too often to rack up damage/kills.  A unicum platoon needs far less help from the rest of their team than a platoon of 52% players would.

 

In your case, Mamas_Calvin, I'm sure playing with 50%ers does give you a great mix, but in that case YOU are the extreme in the scenario.  For someone at my level, I believe that platooning with better players than myself would actually increase my WN7, as I would be alive longer in more battles, allowing me more opportunities to harvest damage/kills.  To sum it up, my take on the original theory is that there is a point of diminishing returns in either direction, and that point changes or is determined by the individual skill of the player, if you follow what I'm trying to say. 

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If I have to choose between doing things that pad my stats, or doing things that win games, I'll always opt for winning the game. Often they are NOT the same thing.

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If I have to choose between doing things that pad my stats, or doing things that win games, I'll always opt for winning the game. Often they are NOT the same thing.

IMO, it's a pretty rare situation that play4stats and play4wins are different. Play4stats requires firing for effect early and often while taking little damage in return. This is the best strategy for play4wins as well. A kill shot is worth more wn7 than a damage shot, and taking a gun out of play is almost always the right call when playing to win.

Only clear exceptions that come to mind are:

- serious scouting

- returning to base for a low probability cap reset when you are actively farming damage

- losing a game because you passed on an easy cap in favor of trying and failing to kill remaining reds (theoretical, hasn't happened to me in 5k games)

There are also a handful of false exceptions:

- holding a grossly undermanned flank (better for stats and win rate to stick with the lemming train)

- self-sacrificing for a kill (an even trade at best, and even trades don't help win rate or WN7)

- charging key map control points (sometimes good, sometimes bad -- if you aren't sure, it's almost always bad)

The worst players best help their team by following the herd and providing targets and some damage.

OK to great players best help their team by staying alive and making good hp trades

The very best player create opportunities for other players to exploit (this is the cohort that faces Garbad vs Kewei decisions to pad wins vs DPG)

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How about tank selection?  TDs average ~25% higher WN7 with the same performance level.  If you have a platoon of two TDs and one medium, the medium is probably in fact more valuable to the team but his stats will look like shit compared to the TDs.  But if he brings a 3rd TD, his personal stats will improve but the win rate of the platoon will go down.

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I do worse in both categories when platooned. Not sure why.

I would say it is quite possible with enough skill and talent though. Take a look at the previous poster. He has both.

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