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Jesse_the_Scout

Type 58

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I've been grinding this thing atm, and er.mah.gerd. I wants moar depression! Having to approach each map totally differently because of it is kinda frustrating. Fair enough, if you get in the flank of an enemy your DPM will mess up his day, but in tier 8 games you might as well throw your shells at some tanks for all the good they do. KV-4 or IS-6 vs Type 58...*shudder*. For some reason this tank seems to stick to the ground like its tracks were dipped in glue. I find I bleed off tons of speed on medium terrain, feels like I'm driving a fast heavy. Looking forward to being done with this thing and moving on to the T-34-1. Which will probably be more of the same... but then at least I won't get oneshot by SU-152 derps all the time.

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The 34-85 is the best support tank in tier IMO. This is a poor copy. The 34-85 has that excellent rebalanced 85mm that's both a comfortable sniper and a servicable late game brawler. It works because it's slightly above average in every category, making it exceptionally flexible. The Type 58 sacrifices some of everything for a marginally better turret and... not much else.

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This is another tank that I hated initially, totally loved at the end. This thing is a freaking murderer on tracks and one of the best tier 6 tanks I've played so far. Depression is none but the gun is fantastic so once you manage to grapple with that, it's a lean, mean damage dishing machine. It's the T-54 of Tier VI.

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I had low expectations for this tank, but I'm just loving it atm.

 

Yes, the penetration is bad

Yes, the damage is poor

Yes, the gun depression is non-existent

 

But it doesn't seem to matter. In 48 games so far this thing is running a 67% win rate and a WN8 of 2800. 

 

Things I like:

- Decent top speed (but slow to accelerate)

- Seems like the armor is pretty bouncy

- Good camo

- Good vision distance

 

It just seems like a good support tank. I was expecting a lot of problems with an inaccurate gun, but not so far. If the T-34-1 is a better tank then I can't wait.

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I'm grinding it bone stock as I'm jealously hoarding my FreeXP for an E-75. I loved the T34-85 but this thing is just awful so far. Does it get much better when it's upgraded? The wiki says there's not much difference between stock and upgraded, which makes grinding out the next 140k+ EXP a daunting prospect...

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I really liked it for some reason, and if the gun dep is a problem for some of you then oh boy you are not gonna like the others either, stop right there then.

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What grind? I enjoyed playing it so much I had elited this tank even though I had initally planned to just get the gun and the engine for my WZ-131 and then sell it.

 

What not to like? There is pretty much no stock grind to speak of (decent starting equipment, cheap modules), very good mobility, dependable M1A2-like gun but with better (IMHO) balance between RoF and alpha, smallish profile, solid DPM and even half-decent turret armor. Excellent flanker and all-purpose medium, it is still in my garage

 

True - it can't peek over hills, but if you can't live without it, you picked a wrong nation. Or is it pen? Well, US meds get the same one, with even less alpha. Shoot sides/rears/weak spots = problem solved!

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I didn't like the alpha - it was too long to just sit down and pelt someone with shells, but too short for you to play peekaboo without spending forever aiming.

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What grind? I enjoyed playing it so much I had elited this tank even though I had initally planned to just get the gun and the engine for my WZ-131 and then sell it.

 

What not to like? There is pretty much no stock grind to speak of (decent starting equipment, cheap modules), very good mobility, dependable M1A2-like gun but with better (IMHO) balance between RoF and alpha, smallish profile, solid DPM and even half-decent turret armor. Excellent flanker and all-purpose medium, it is still in my garage

 

True - it can't peek over hills, but if you can't live without it, you picked a wrong nation. Or is it pen? Well, US meds get the same one, with even less alpha. Shoot sides/rears/weak spots = problem solved!

The problem is that the Type 58 is inferior to the T-34-85 in almost every way, there's no reason to drive it.

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The only thing the Type has going for it is DPM but the poor pen + gun handling kind of negate that. The T-34-85 is, in my opinion probably the best tier 6 medium so the Type 58 isn't bad but it's not that great either.

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Had to play this thing again for the T34 grind. Still sucks. People can stop citing its DPM as a virtue.

 

A-43: 2218

Cromwell: 2076

M4E2/8: 2000 (APCR @ 110/shot, 115/ shot with AP for 2090)

VK 30.02 M: 1929

Type 58: 1920

VK 30.01 P w/88mm: 1914

VK 30.01 D: 1841

T-34-84: 1800

 

Ok, so it's basically average at the one thing people say it good about it.

 

Like Rexxie said, the RoF is what kills me as much as the gun depression. Baddie reflexes are the key here, even the most geriatric red will react before you reload with this weird gun. 4.5 seconds is a LONG time in this game, you can often slip in 2 shots with the ~3 on a Sherman E2/8. Every other tank on the above list has some advantages of pen, alpha, accuracy, shell travel time, etc. that the Type 58 lacks, so they can snipe, hull down, etc. to engage without getting wrecked.

 

It's not particularly good at alpha OR DPM, yet it still has bad pen, lousy accuracy, and a poor platform to deliver shots from. Wat.

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I love the maneuverability of it. Having went up the Chinese line first, the Russian T-34 just felt sluggish on flanking movements due to the lack of Magic Chinese Tracks. I'm expecting the T-34/85 to compare similarly to the Type 58 when I do get it.

 

http://tank-compare.com/en/compare/t-34-85/type-58#T1=341I259I243I425I172&T2=469I354I303I571I211

 

Other than the gun, I don't feel that the Russian original is a clear cut above the Type 58. Indeed, without a 100% crew I often missed 100+m shots at tanks poking out. Of course, I'm a baddie so my opinion might be invalid; I miss a lot of my long range shots anyways. 

 

Lastly the 10m of view range which is multipliable. I managed to get 400m out of it at one time, which is obviously good for scouting and made my assist damage just shoot up.

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I actually really like this tonk, not enough to keep it after i grind out both t7s tho.  Although, i fucking loved the t-43 so I'm crazeeeeeee.  has everything you need at t6 (viewrange/speed).  I can't decide whether I pref the russian version or this one  :c.

 

The armor is also very workable against most tanks it sees.

 

sometimes working with the depression is rageful, but I only play it for the doubles so its more interesting/fun than annoying.  As long as I remember not to yolo somewhere (cough el halluf) where depression is supar important.

I dont ever remember

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I also like the T-43, but hate the Type 58.

 

My thoughts last night:

 

"Right I've now upgraded the tracks, turret and gun, now it's time to do the engines. I'm sure looking forward to more mobility to offset the annoying lack of gun depression, and maybe help raise my horribad stats in this thing.

 

Hmm 11,000 Xp for the next engine, oh well I guess it'll be a big upgrade (checks stats). What? 11,000XP for a 3% reduction in fire chance and that's it? Maybe the final engine will be better (checks stats again). 16,000 Xp for a boost of 20hp, a whole 4% boost in horsepower? Overpriced pieces of crap the both of them."

 

Seriously what's up with that? By comparison the middle engine on the T-34-85 only costs 6,200 Xp and is pretty much the same as the final Type 58 engine. And while the top T-34-85 engine cost 19,000 Xp it puts out 600 horsepower, a 20% boost over the stock one.  God this thing is painful

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Hmm 11,000 Xp for the next engine, oh well I guess it'll be a big upgrade (checks stats). What? 11,000XP for a 3% reduction in fire chance and that's it? Maybe the final engine will be better (checks stats again). 16,000 Xp for a boost of 20hp, a whole 4% boost in horsepower? Overpriced pieces of crap the both of them."

 

Seriously what's up with that? By comparison the middle engine on the T-34-85 only costs 6,200 Xp and is pretty much the same as the final Type 58 engine. And while the top T-34-85 engine cost 19,000 Xp it puts out 600 horsepower, a 20% boost over the stock one.  God this thing is painful

 

From my own personally experience, i felt the tiny upgrade did indeed help the Type 58's mobility problems.

 

Anyway, the engine is used on both the IS-2 and the T-34-1, so that explains the cost (kinda). It's worth grinding unless you find the tank absolutely unbearable.

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I switched to vents instead of optics and decided to focus on just punching things instead of trying to be clever and it works ok.

 

Oh bro you really enlightened me, I was not sure, but what you said really echo my experience in it so far. I tried to play vision game and failed badly. Go face to face did let me bring at least one guy die with me. I will switch to vent to see how things go. Shit win rate over 44 games, but have just over 1 KPG 1.3K WN8. Such a long grind to unlock the next tiers :-/

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Every once in a while I put this tank back into my rotation for a week thinking I must be missing something, and every time I walk away with WAAAAAAT. My brain cannot comprehend how it is not universally reviled.

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Luck is a thing and perverts the views many have on a multitude of tanks. They get some (or even a bunch) of good map/team/tier combinations and then suddenly its a godly OP omgyes tank.

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I've been doing exceptionally well in terms of XP and damage in this compared to other T6's. DPG higher than pre-nerf Hellcat? lel

 

However, WR seems to suffer due to the fact that your pen is so unreliable against higher tiered opponents, it's hard to actually put out any damage at all if you have no room to flank. (It suffers even more since I'm over-agressive and die early, usually being the best player in that kind of tier = instant arty focus, and the 122mm twoshot problem and T6 map plays I'm not used to)

 

What I really like about this tank though is that damage is so easy to put out once you find targets you can penetrate reliably. The accuracy isn't half bad and the turret armour is actually a lot stronger than I would've anticipated any armour at T6 to be at all, it's mobile enough to be where it's needed. 

 

The things I don't like about it is the KV-85 like depression, I guess this is general for chinese meds but this worse than anything I've had to deal with before, but if you aren't on flat ground it's next to impossible finding a spot where you can hull down for cover.

Penetration is an issue, I regularly see aimed shots on the enemy Type 58's bounce with AP. So my solution for this is to just be a little more generous with the APCR rounds.

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I don't like this tank either. I've had few good games in it, but usually things don't go well. My map knowledge isn't good enough to make it work in every map. Some maps it's just fine, on other maps I find it useless (and end up derping bad). And the pen really kills it, when there is little to no chance for flanking. Turret is pretty bouncy, but with no gun depression it's hard to abuse. I'm probably going to grind my way through it, but I won't be enjoying it.

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