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I have two lights in my garage that I barely ever play, the VK2801 and the 59-16. I have had both for months and months, almost never playing them, pretty much since the vision/camo changes.

 

Because of the IS-6 thing going on at the moment, I decided to run them cause I was getting tired of the completely oblivious players playing tier 6. But like every time before, I regret it after a few battles because I am instantly reminded of how imbalanced they are (as in underpowered). The tier 8 lights seem ok, they have the HP to take a hit and survive, and they have the punch to deter someone from engaging them.

 

tier 6s however, partially the 7s as well, lack that, and are not far from dead weight on a tier 8/9 team.

 

Firstly, part of the problem is the TDs, they have so much camo now that they can spot a light tank before being spotted themselves, and with a bush/camo net, they can even shoot the light after spotting it, without being revealed themselves.
Secondly, the mediums in the tiers you fight in do an equal or better job in most cases, most of them have the same or better viewrange, and are not as easily bullied as the T6 lights are
Lastly, another problem is that the matchmaker does not balance the lights, There is no difference between the tier 8 and tier 6 lights beyond a tiny amount of weight, but the tier 8s make the tier 6 on the other side completely unable to scout in the same area, whatever the difference in weight is won back by the other team having a light tank with nowhere to go.

 

Ironically, because of the lower tiers the tier 5 lights see, the problem is nowhere near as big. And they generally have much better gun selections, I would love to have the chaffees gun on my 59-16

 

I think it's time for a re-balancing of light tanks, especially tier 6.

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Getting rid of scout MM from T6 and below would be delightful. There's a tank or two that would need to be rebalanced of course, and while I'm thinking of the Chaffee I'm pretty sure it's losing it's top turret soonish. Whenever the new US line comes out, the model was in the National Geographic special about WG I think. 

 

Though this event has made leveling through the 12t pleasant enough. Most of my matches have been T6 :)

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Lights are retarded. They buffed accuracy and reduced camo values all over the place in the same patch, that was the end of them. Sometimes I get the idea to play them again, that lasts until the first time some paste eater with a 46% win rate throws himself away and simply zergs straight into me clicking. For this IS-6 grind they're good just as a break from the same battle tiers at least.

 

To an extent I wonder if they keep lights sucking because good players would run circles around baddies even more if lights were usable. As it stands when top tier they're godless murder machines, you could chop the view range and HPs to balance and they'd still be amazing in the right hands with standard MM.

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I think they should buff them a bit and give them special -0/+2 MM

 

That would be basically flat Tier +2.  So tier 7 LTs would only ever get into tier 9 matches.  Ever.  Like nothing above or below.

 

My preference would be for tier 6 and below LTs to have standard matchmaking, none of them are actually good enough to cope in +4 matches, and even +3 I'd only really feel in the 12t.

 

Tiers 7 and 8 should have Standard +1, so tier 7 get into 8/9/10 matches adn tier 8 get into 9/10/11.  (They'd be a little too good in standard, just imagine an AMX 13 90 in a tier 8 game.....)

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Part of what's just so wrong about the MM gap is ALL the HPs scale as tanks get bigger, inluding module HPs. So not only does that mean 590 HPs vs 320 alpha, but ANY hit to ammo racks, fuel tanks, and most importantly tracks means KO in one shot as a rule. Even a shot to the side of the treads stops you in your tracks because of that HP/Alpha gap. It's just masochistically retarded.

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Part of what's just so wrong about the MM gap is ALL the HPs scale as tanks get bigger, inluding module HPs. So not only does that mean 590 HPs vs 320 alpha, but ANY hit to ammo racks, fuel tanks, and most importantly tracks means KO in one shot as a rule. Even a shot to the side of the treads stops you in your tracks because of that HP/Alpha gap. It's just masochistically retarded.

 

On top of which, scout guns don't usually de-track in one shot.  I have to use 2 of my clip to hold someone in place for my T71.

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Part of what's just so wrong about the MM gap is ALL the HPs scale as tanks get bigger, inluding module HPs. So not only does that mean 590 HPs vs 320 alpha, but ANY hit to ammo racks, fuel tanks, and most importantly tracks means KO in one shot as a rule. Even a shot to the side of the treads stops you in your tracks because of that HP/Alpha gap. It's just masochistically retarded.

 

The problem with lights isn't module HP, they're actually pretty well supplied with that (eg. the AMX 13 90 has better ammo rack, engine, and track HP than any Russian tank, including heavies), but that the modules are very close together and highly likely to be hit because of the small size of the tank, and the 10x calibre rule for travel.

 

So, again the AMX 13 90 has a very high chance to lose its engine from hits to the front half of the tank because the tank is small and so shells hitting the front have a high likelihood to reach the engine.

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Why not just give the scouts the same mm as the normal tanks? Or +2-1 mm so that they get less top tier action. It is imho just plain retarded to force new players at tiers 4, 5 and 6 play the most difficult tank class in game. It is just stupid and has always been.

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At the moment its just the inertia of not thinking much about light tanks.

 

 

Newly introduced lights are tending not to get scout MM, of the last 5 tier 4/5 lights introduced only one, the M5A1 has scout MM and that probably only because the original M5 has as well.

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If you consider the Chaffee a tier 6 (I do), both it and the 59-16 are good enough tanks to handle tier 10s. I haven't played the 2801, so I can't comment on it, though from what I've heard, it's terrible now and should have +2 MMing. All tier 4 scouts should have +2 MMing; the A-20 is the most absurd tank to receive the MMing it currently gets because holy god is that an awful tank. 

 

The scout class is pretty broken right now; everything else needs a view range nerf and camo nerf for them to be competitive, and the accuracy buff changes really hurt scouts. You can still excel in light tanks, they're just very very unforgiving if you make a mistake. 

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If you consider the Chaffee a tier 6 (I do), both it and the 59-16 are good enough tanks to handle tier 10s. I haven't played the 2801, so I can't comment on it, though from what I've heard, it's terrible now and should have +2 MMing. All tier 4 scouts should have +2 MMing; the A-20 is the most absurd tank to receive the MMing it currently gets because holy god is that an awful tank.

The scout class is pretty broken right now; everything else needs a view range nerf and camo nerf for them to be competitive, and the accuracy buff changes really hurt scouts. You can still excel in light tanks, they're just very very unforgiving if you make a mistake.

Eh, 2801 isn't really good anymore after the heat nerf. It can't turn like the Chaffee, turret is slower, and is fatter.

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Playing the MT-25 last night... KV-1S baddie moving forward swings his turret and vomits out a shot at me without aiming at 150m when I'm half concealed and nails me. That as much as anything is why light tanks are stupid now. I hit a Cromwell at 600m moving full speed while I was going full speed in a VK 30.02M a couple nights ago. The accuracy buff is just fucking retarded in the frequency of dead center shots it doles out regardless of the size of the aiming circle.

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Physics changes, map changes with more bumpy terrain, addition of t10 TDs and meds. Accuracy change is the smallest bad thing to have happen to scouts imho.

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I would agree with a +2/-1 MM for scouts (make Chaffee a tier 6). 

I've been playing the 59-16 alot since the combat mission & I've found in tier 10 that I'm forced to go into a good forward bush & sit.  You have no chance to active scout at all.  Plus, I'm still grinding this tank so, I don't have six sense.  This tank is loads of fun in tier 7 or 8.  It's about the same with the T21.  I wasn't playing this tank since I unlocked the T71 but, for the combat mission, I started using it again.  I use it as a complete passive scout in tier 10.  In tier 7 or 8 this tank becomes a useful flanker & isn't forced to cower in a bush hoping nobody spots it.

 

My biggest issue when playing scouts is keeping my finger off the trigger.  This really gets tough when the pubs keep missing shot after shot on tanks I've lit.  I don't really have the need to attempt to fire at tier 9 or 10 because I normally can't pen them.  Also, I'm not as "itchy" with the 59-16 due to the horrible pen from this gun. 

 

I really enjoyed scouts prior to update 8.6.  Now, I don't play scouts much.  The changes made playing scouts more difficult & really took away most active scouting (plus WOT murdered my T-50-2 and replaced it with an alien).  I have a really hard time rushing into a good forward bush & sitting for half the game (even when I know this is helping my team win). 

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If you consider the Chaffee a tier 6 (I do), both it and the 59-16 are good enough tanks to handle tier 10s. I haven't played the 2801, so I can't comment on it, though from what I've heard, it's terrible now and should have +2 MMing. All tier 4 scouts should have +2 MMing; the A-20 is the most absurd tank to receive the MMing it currently gets because holy god is that an awful tank. 

 

The scout class is pretty broken right now; everything else needs a view range nerf and camo nerf for them to be competitive, and the accuracy buff changes really hurt scouts. You can still excel in light tanks, they're just very very unforgiving if you make a mistake. 

 

I have to disagree with the Chaffee and 59-16 facing tier 10s. BT 9 is pushing it thanks to the accuracy/camo changes. They should face 4-9 max at this point. A few good players can force the 59-16 to work against 10, but I'd rather not have dead weight in tier 10+ matches.

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Only thing I've read from WG about this was something on FTR about them trying to improve the "vitality" of lights somehow.  Personally I think the tier 7 and up lights are reasonable (- the auf panth, and maybe the 13 75 to some extent) The T71, WZ 131 are good enough, and the 13-90 and WZ 132 might have a very steep learning curve but they actually CAN be worthwhile tanks to play in the right hands. 

 

I would happily take improved light tanks over better matchmaking, but if all they did was work on the matchmaking in some way or another that would seem quick enough as a fix and i really highly doubt in the current meta it would imbalance the game.

 

The biggest problem is the complaining, I've to notice if you do decent damage (say 1500 in a T71) people start getting angry at you on the enemy team like your tank is somehow gamebreaking even though your in a Tier 10 match fighting tanks that are almost all dealing 2500 or more damage that same match.  Its hypocritical and stupid. 

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Physics changes, map changes with more bumpy terrain, addition of t10 TDs and meds. Accuracy change is the smallest bad thing to have happen to scouts imho.

 

I think you're underestimating the effect the accuracy change had, it's way too easy for guns that are supposed to be inaccurate to snap shot fast moving lights, especially enormous trollcannons on high tier TDs.

 

Bumpy terrain physics can be a problem, but if dirty great TDs couldn't trivially snap shot you it wouldn't be as severe.

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I think you're underestimating the effect the accuracy change had, it's way too easy for guns that are supposed to be inaccurate to snap shot fast moving lights, especially enormous trollcannons on high tier TDs.

 

Bumpy terrain physics can be a problem, but if dirty great TDs couldn't trivially snap shot you it wouldn't be as severe.

I think my most killed tank in my KV derp back in the day was either t50 or t50-2. Both insanely fast and agile tanks.

As far as accuracy changes go I think the addition of t10 meds and the new breed of insane fast aim time tanks has had bigger effect. In general light tanks nowadays see a lot more guns with big alpha, fast aim time and accurate guns. The main reason for that is not the accuracy change but the addition of new better tanks and powercreep.

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I have to disagree with the Chaffee and 59-16 facing tier 10s. BT 9 is pushing it thanks to the accuracy/camo changes. They should face 4-9 max at this point. A few good players can force the 59-16 to work against 10, but I'd rather not have dead weight in tier 10+ matches.

 

They're both mobile enough to flank and circle most heavies and TDs; you have to be very selective and pick your spots, but they're both good at tier 10. But yes, the camo/accuracy changes have killed active scouting.

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I'm not sure if the accuracy buff was the biggest hit, but to me it's the most angering hit. I've been playing tier 6 lights for the IS-6 grind and I'm reminded how different and stupid it makes things. Back in the day I loved taunting a high tier into swinging his gun back at me and belching out a pointless shot without aiming, now they hit me 1/3 doing that shit. I've had to adjust to remember if they are pointing at you they will now hit you. The accuracy buff starting rewarding taking stupid shots.

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The problem with Lights is NOT MM.  

 

The problems are:

 

1)  How WG let the lines of distinction between mediums and lights blur.

2)  Changes to environmental camo and a few crazy camo values for certain mediums and TDs

3)  Limiting most scouts top speeds.

 

The solutions are easy:

 

1)  Return role separation of Lights and Mediums. Give scouts longer view Ranges than Mediums and give them faster speed than mediums.

2)  Return environmental camo to the way it was and give tanks relative camo values which make sense.  Big TDs and Mediums shouldn't have better camo values than scouts which are smaller than they are.

3)  Make scouts the fastest tanks in the tiers they play at.

 

End of problem.

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Not a solution, just agreeing with OP. I am playing 59-16 for is6 mission and its terrible. I feel useless,one hit and i am low HP, ammo bill is ridiculous but worst part is camo nerf. I dont have 6th sense and i get spotted from riduculous distances. Considering suiciding scouting since i dont think even my hardest trying would make it over 55% wr and its not worth losing credits and staying in battles for 10 more minutes.

 

Edit: sold 59-16

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I was considering going 59-16 route for IS6 mission, but after reading this, thank god I have gone Type 58 route ^^. But seriously I was watching 59-16 in another game after I died and I was positively surprised how fast/agile that tank is and how quickly it spits the bullets and relaods quickly too. It is perfect to target lonely, slowly turning heavies / TD's and perform a dance of death around them. Doing this is also very rewarding. I agree that scouts are sub-par to what they used to be in t-50-2 times but some solutions presented here could fix it. Scouts should have better base camo ratings compared to other tank types, could use some HP buff - in this case leave MM as it is OR leave scouts as they are and maybe limit MM to -1/+2 or 0/2. It would have to be tested first as all changes, but WG should do something.

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I was considering going 59-16 route for IS6 mission, but after reading this, thank god I have gone Type 58 route ^^. But seriously I was watching 59-16 in another game after I died and I was positively surprised how fast/agile that tank is and how quickly it spits the bullets and relaods quickly too. It is perfect to target lonely, slowly turning heavies / TD's and perform a dance of death around them. Doing this is also very rewarding. I agree that scouts are sub-par to what they used to be in t-50-2 times but some solutions presented here could fix it. Scouts should have better base camo ratings compared to other tank types, could use some HP buff - in this case leave MM as it is OR leave scouts as they are and maybe limit MM to -1/+2 or 0/2. It would have to be tested first as all changes, but WG should do something.

 Maybe i am bad, but it happens once in 50 battles to me with current map design. What happens every second battle is that lonely td spots me first and kills me.

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