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badkenney

Love arty and everyone who plays it.

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I've been an arty-only player thus far (about 1,200 battles) but looking to expand my horizons. Per some advice in I received in another thread, I soon plan to build my skillset on a Matilda. I'm also interested in a recommendation for an"arty protector" tank. I want something that enables me to provide arty support by moving with them and staying close but move to and from main battle areas as-needed.

 

Out of deference to purple skinned players I will likely always be a tier 4'ish player so a recommendation in the tier 4 category is most helpful to me at this time.

 

Ken

 

p.s.

 

I feel certain that Garbad and I could work out our differences over a few pints  (quarts or gallons, as necessary) at Goose Island Brewery here in Chicago. Garbad, if you are ever in the neighborhood, give me a call. The first two rounds (of beer) are on me. Their burgers are very good, too.

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The best way to protect arty is to push it into the sea at the start of the battle because drowned tanks don't lose HP.

 

 

Srsly though, you "protect" allied lepers* by making sure you have good map control so that the enemy can't safely get close enough to threaten them, so any tank is a good "arty protector" if you're going to and taking control of the strong points on the map.

 

 

 

* I have become convinced that the reason that allied arty can't shoot, for instance, a T95 that is basically stationary for a minute and a half in wide open space and is the only tank visible for most of that time is that they are looking for their clicking finger, it having dropped off from the leprosy.

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You protect arty by winning the battle.  Learning to be there when you need to is a big part of getting better. Personally I would rate "land arty" a.k.a. tank destroyers, over arty in protection, then autoloaders, then the meat shields, then the average pubbie arty over the pub scout.

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I can explain a bit more.

 

As you know arty are slow to turn and target. There are times at the very start of a game where I've been whacked very quickly, usually by very fast and agile tanks. I understand and fully accept that this is my responsibility to avoid. I also understand that there are situations where, if I'd had a quicker turning, faster targeting teammate nearby to take a shot or two before heading off to glory, it might have helped me stay in the battle longer.  Something with "quicker turning, faster targeting" features is what I'm after.

 

 

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Wouldn't work.  Leper HP is low enough that the time to kill once something has gotten through enough to shoot at them is sufficiently low that they'll kill the leper before anything guarding them can kill the attacker.

 

You guard lepers by making sure things can't get to them in the first place.

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What you are failing to understand is that the idea of "protecting arty" is a flawed one. If you are in any tank other than arty, you are better served being at the front, getting a better position/view on the enemy team, and/or supporting your scouts and mediums.

 

There is no scenario, whatsoever, under any circumstance that hanging back and "protecting arty" is a good idea. 

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I've played a good bit of arty & arty doesn't need protection.  Prior to update 8.6 the "arty suicide run" at the start of the battle was a threat.  Now, with the increased accuracy & longer aim times for arty, these types of attacks work maybe 5% of the time.  If the team sucks so bad that a scout can rush thru 12-14 tanks & get to the arty in the first 2 minutes, your going to lose the battle anyway.

 

When you get closer to the end game, that is when the threat of a scout (or fast tank) completing an arty run.  However, it's on the arty to reposition at this point & make it more difficult to get spotted.  If your still alive at this point, you will help arty alot more by lighting up targets.  The problem with you "protecting the arty" is taking away another set of eyes. 

 

The only suggestion I have for you is to play mobile tanks (T49 tier 5 TD).  If you have a mobile tank & situational awareness, you are more able to counter enemy thrusts into the rear.  The advantage of this is two-fold.  Most important is that you keep the enemy from breaking our lines and attacking from the flanks or rear.  The second advantage is to prevent the enemy from capping.  If I can keep the arty alive while countering enemy thursts even better.  To be honest, I'm as likely to use arty as "bait" to kill the enemy attackers.

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....it's on the arty to reposition at this point & make it more difficult to get spotted.

 

This I have discovered. My stats are poor but a close examination shows a relatively sharp jump upward in WN7 and jump downward in winrate....as I chose to move with the team and reposition much more frequently.

 

I recently helped win a game by choosing to be spotter (bait) for a better-skilled and more agile teammate. All in good fun.

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This I have discovered. My stats are poor but a close examination shows a relatively sharp jump upward in WN7 and jump downward in winrate....as I chose to move with the team and reposition much more frequently.

 

I recently helped win a game by choosing to be spotter (bait) for a better-skilled and more agile teammate. All in good fun.

 

Arty is completely dependent on the team.  My arty win rate is much lower than my win rate with tanks.  I don't really think I'm anymore than an average arty player & I'm maybe slightly above average with tanks.  I don't know how many times I'm playing arty & see the enemy making a move on the minimap.  I'm just powerless to stop it when playing arty (I do SOS & mark the spot on the minimap but, the pubs don't seem to care. 

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I feel certain that Garbad and I could work out our differences over a few pints  (quarts or gallons, as necessary) at Goose Island Brewery here in Chicago. Garbad, if you are ever in the neighborhood, give me a call. The first two rounds (of beer) are on me. Their burgers are very good, too.

 

Thanks for the invitation!  I'm sure we could as well, but it might take more than two pints before you could admit you are completely wrong.

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Thanks for the invitation!  I'm sure we could as well, but it might take more than two pints before you could admit you are completely wrong.

 

Hey Garbad!

 

It's nice to make your acquaintance.

 

As far as "...it might take more than two points pints...before admit you are completely wrong."….I'm not so sure about that. I am young (ish) and (I'm told), very impressionable. I could easily be a pushover for the logic of an older, wiser, tanker who is as skilled and informed, revered (and seemingly unjustly sometimes reviled)  as you. Certainly no one earns a 3196 WN8 without lots of skill and a wide and deep knowledge of the game and its many nuances.

 

I am genuinely interested to learn your ideas on arty in WoT above and beyond your signature-as-epithet. I've scanned all manner of sincere and presumably well-educated "down with arty" posts but I've not yet stumbled upon a thoughtful and instructive thread on why other than "it's too easy" or "it's unfair". If you've got a pointer to a thread, please tell me where to find it. I'm a tireless learner. Alternatively, I'd be happy to pm you my email address for an offline lesson...although I am intentionally easy to find irl.

 

The offer of beers and burgers stands...as long as we can talk tier 4 and 5 heavies, too. Heavies are people, too. For the record, Goose Island also has good fries... though I am a notoriously unreliable source because I've seldom met a Freedom Fry I did not like.

 

Ken

 

Fixed a typo...my offer was for "pints" not "points". Garbad has plenty of points. It's Goose Island beer that can solve the World of Tanks problems.

Edited by badkenney

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I'll be blunt.  Arty is now a hinderence to the team by all but the very best players.  If you look at the WN8 formula (and you should) nearly arty all has sub "expected" 50% win rates.  The bloom and accuracy is such that arty is no longer effective.  FOr better or worse, if you (meaning anyone) bring arty to a game, you are a handicap to your team.  You better bring an "A" game to make up for that.  Can you hit tanks on the run?  Can you splash damage around corners/rocks?  Only then is it worth bringing arty to a game.

 

I say this as an avid arty player.  THe time it takes for arty to aim and fire are so long that they generally cannot react to a developing situation and therefore MUST have a very good sense of the flow of battle to be aimed at the action BEFORE it happens.

 

Now as to arty "protector" the best protectors are the best players as they will try and win the map (Ironically like Garbad).  Generally that means taking the fight to the enemy and away form your cap area where arty mostly sits (mostly).  So if you want to be a good arty protector--learn to play tanks like Garbad does.  As a serious arty player (incoming neg reps!) if you are "guarding" me, you aren't doing your job.  If they are withing 400 meters of arty, you've failed (or your arty is an idiot--very real possibility).  Spotted arty is dead arty.

 

THe arty nerf for all the rage that arty is OP, made them a non factor.  Yes random people still blow up at random.  Its total luck.  In my T7 Brit arty on a full zoom stationary target, I can hit MAYBE 50% on a good day.  That means 7-8 misses in a row are not uncommon.  My 950 dmg shell hits for maybe 200.  I'd be much better served to bring a Tiger (more HP, more DPM).  My only usefulness is removing dug in opposition.  And causing nerdrage--beautiful nerdrage tears......

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I'll be blunt.  Arty is now a hinderence to the team by all but the very best players.  If you look at the WN8 formula (and you should) nearly arty all has sub "expected" 50% win rates.  The bloom and accuracy is such that arty is no longer effective.  FOr better or worse, if you (meaning anyone) bring arty to a game, you are a handicap to your team.  You better bring an "A" game to make up for that.  Can you hit tanks on the run?  Can you splash damage around corners/rocks?  Only then is it worth bringing arty to a game.

 

I say this as an avid arty player.  THe time it takes for arty to aim and fire are so long that they generally cannot react to a developing situation and therefore MUST have a very good sense of the flow of battle to be aimed at the action BEFORE it happens.

 

Now as to arty "protector" the best protectors are the best players as they will try and win the map (Ironically like Garbad).  Generally that means taking the fight to the enemy and away form your cap area where arty mostly sits (mostly).  So if you want to be a good arty protector--learn to play tanks like Garbad does.  As a serious arty player (incoming neg reps!) if you are "guarding" me, you aren't doing your job.  If they are withing 400 meters of arty, you've failed (or your arty is an idiot--very real possibility).  Spotted arty is dead arty.

 

THe arty nerf for all the rage that arty is OP, made them a non factor.  Yes random people still blow up at random.  Its total luck.  In my T7 Brit arty on a full zoom stationary target, I can hit MAYBE 50% on a good day.  That means 7-8 misses in a row are not uncommon.  My 950 dmg shell hits for maybe 200.  I'd be much better served to bring a Tiger (more HP, more DPM).  My only usefulness is removing dug in opposition.  And causing nerdrage--beautiful nerdrage tears......

I'm sure your arty brethren look down at your tears from space and care.  Right before they click.

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I'm sure your arty brethren look down at your tears from space and care.  Right before they click.

I think you missed to point.  The only thing Arty is useful for is pissing their targets off.  Watching someone rage after a direct arty hit is priceless. 

 

Some of your fellow [-G-] clickers more than agree with that.

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I think you missed to point.  The only thing Arty is useful for is pissing their targets off.  Watching someone rage after a direct arty hit is priceless. 

 

Some of your fellow [-G-] clickers more than agree with that.

Funny, this thread makes it seem like clickers are the ones crying.

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As an arty-preferred CW player that is ore than proficient, I can confidently say that the idea of 'arty protector' is ludicrous. Light tanks rushing will always be a problem when your team doesn't control the map, or leaves flanks open. The more tanks you have on the front, the less gaps there will be. A ight tank getting through to the arty is a grave failure on behalf of the team, and a tank sitting with the arty on contributes to the likeliness these failures will happen. Like HIV, the best policy is prevention. If you want to contribute to the play of artillery, you need to contributing to map and vision control; generally speaking, this means you need to be in the middle of the map. Arty don't function well with the pressure, angle and elevations when shooting into their own half of the map - for them to function well they need to be shooting into the opponents half. 

 

The less map you control, the less cover you have to utilize, the less angles you can get on your enemy, and the less opportunities to spot tanks without being spotted yourself you have. If you don't control the map, then opposing scouts will identify where you are by 6th sense triangulation even if you remain hidden. Losing map control is most often failed by losing the game. Controlling more of the map means that any threats to the arty are identified well in advance and can be dealt with, and also providing more area for the arty to move around in so that the arty has much more control of firing angles (which really messes with people using cover).

 

Long story short... the closest you'll get to an arty protector is a scout or medium that is controlling the vision on the map.

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arty look down from space

This is the answer to your question, badkenney. Arty is wrong because it has friggin real-time satellite vision in a game that is supposed to reflect 1940s combat. As to the fffreds complains about aim time and reload time nerfs - as far as I'm concerned, you can get your former aim and reload times back, provided that you are forced to shoot from third person perspective.

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The problem with that logc is real arty shoots from coordinates radio called from the tanks. So if all of the vehicles were willing to give up "seeing" with radio range and instead only get a dot on the mini map only when something was pinged then it would be more "realistic". Otherwise the sight from space argument holds no water since everything outside your tanks view range is "unrealistic".

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Why does this always happen to me?

 

I ask an ignorant question (I still have a very high IQ -- "ignorance quotient" -- with respect to WoT) and get a bunch of educated, thoughtful and considerate responses.

Good stuff.

Thanks to all who took the time to respond.  I can be a better player for it.

Ken
 

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The problem with that logc is real arty shoots from coordinates radio called from the tanks. So if all of the vehicles were willing to give up "seeing" with radio range and instead only get a dot on the mini map only when something was pinged then it would be more "realistic". Otherwise the sight from space argument holds no water since everything outside your tanks view range is "unrealistic".

It's absolutely not the same thing. As a tank, when you "see" beyond your view range, you see appropriately small targets from your tank's view point. As an arty, you have not only the questionable ability to see "beyond view range" like all the other tanks (1), not even just the unrealistic "eagle's eye" point of view exclusive to you (2), but also the magical ability to quickly and smoothly change your view point and zoom at will at any point of the map (3). It's basically as if you had a drone with high-resolution camera transmitting live footage to you as you shoot. Tanks have one level of unrealistic vision (#1), arties have three (#1, #2, #3). In my opinion, they should have only two - that is, they should have a FIXED view point at about 50 meters above the arty, letting them see farther targets, but only as small silhuettes in the distance, not with HD zoom.

That being said, I don't have anything personally against anyone playing arty, I recognize it takes some skill to do it well. It's just that in my humble opinion the very way arty is implemented in this game is broken, and no amount of nerfs/buffs can fix it.

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I don't see the over head camera as bad. The only other real way to implement arty would be to have the "sniper view" be a enlarged map with marked out positions from other tanks spotting. It would get overly complex for WG however since it would still need to show the object moving till it was no longer spotted. Hence the overhead view since it is just a different perspective of the map they are already transmitting it saves them having to send information twice. As for "quickly" or "smoothly" redirecting your aim I would have to disagree as neither of those could be associated with how arty operates now since the speed, traverse, bloom,and aim times have gone through the roof.  Zooming on the overhead's "hd camera" is no different than moving the gun to a set of coordinates. Considering that the game arty vs real arty is a pathetic imitation of the power and destructive force of the real thing I would call the implementation now a decent balance of the game balance vs. the real world. I think drawing for arty in that way would be difficult and process intensive since they would have to rewrite the draw distance part and send additional information over the link. The overhead look is just a different perpective of the overall map which is already being transmitted and is only a small portion is being drawn by the game client depending on where the arty is focused.

 

What I think should be removed is any and all information that isn't being transmitted by a spotter. I.E. no seeing trees, walls, houses being knocked down on the other side of the map. Also no seeing any gun traces unless it is being spotted by another tanks view range

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