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badkenney

Love arty and everyone who plays it.

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I'll be blunt.  Arty is now a hinderence to the team by all but the very best players.  If you look at the WN8 formula (and you should) nearly arty all has sub "expected" 50% win rates.  The bloom and accuracy is such that arty is no longer effective.

 

If you look at the trendlines thread with all the vehicles, arty all underperforms at pretty much every winrate. Even the best players are hampered by arty.

And since the better players like to be in control in a match they're less likely to play arty anyway.

So yeah, they probably nerfed it wrong.

Not that the tears weren't delicious.

Anyway, to reinforce the map control point consider the map Cliff (I'm at work otherwise I would mspaint up in this bitch).

Lets say you've spawned north and you want to protect friendly arties. The leper colony tends to run from A2-A4, so where do you go to protect them?

Actually, you go to E5/6 because that lets you fire at the whole E line and F4/5, shutting down any tanks that try and get to the ridge to overlook your arty. A valley rush will run into great big monster TDs and probably a few tomato heavies that went the wrong way parked among the houses, so you don't need to cover there, and there's always a big scrap at the 9 line and even if something slips past you can get it from E5/6.

And that position gives you the most options to push on once you have won the contest for it, either getting the back of their 9 line or going across the F line ridge to overlook their TDs and possibly spot their leper colony.

(When you're thinking about where to go on a map think about three things:

1. What can I do from that position?

2. Where can I go next?

3. Where can I fall back to if it all goes wrong?

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1. What can I do from that position?

2. Where can I go next?

3. Where can I fall back to if it all goes wrong?

 

I know these things are self-evident but, like the work to perfect a golf swing, cannot be practiced too diligently. I have a one page 'reminders' of things to think about before I settle into battle. I just added these near the top of the list.

 

Thanks, GloatingSwine.

 

Ken

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I've been an arty-only player thus far (about 1,200 battles) but looking to expand my horizons. Per some advice in I received in another thread, I soon plan to build my skillset on a Matilda. I'm also interested in a recommendation for an"arty protector" tank. I want something that enables me to provide arty support by moving with them and staying close but move to and from main battle areas as-needed.

 

Out of deference to purple skinned players I will likely always be a tier 4'ish player so a recommendation in the tier 4 category is most helpful to me at this time.

 

Ken

 

p.s.

 

I feel certain that Garbad and I could work out our differences over a few pints  (quarts or gallons, as necessary) at Goose Island Brewery here in Chicago. Garbad, if you are ever in the neighborhood, give me a call. The first two rounds (of beer) are on me. Their burgers are very good, too.

 

 

There are 2 problems with "arty protectors". One might be that your definition of the the term and other peoples definition are more than likely two ideas. If you are looking for someone to hang around and sit next to arty to "watch over" them is quite frankly IMO a waste of a scout or med or whatever the case maybe. A good arty protector is someone who is out there controlling the major sight lines or "vision" for the more technical term inclined. The ability to know where the enemy is coming from and where high priority targets (i.e. heavy tanks, autoloading TD's, enemy arty). To protect arty, you need eyes, so nailing down one of your allies to guard base/arty is not what you are looking for. It's a major waste of "eyes" IMO. 

 

Other problem is that arty, for the longest time up to the present, has been such a polarizing subject. You basically has 2 schools of thought when is comes to arty. Your either Pro-Arty or Anti-Arty (not saying this to insult anyone, just how I see the commmunity spliting when it comes to arty IMO), that's it. There is no middle ground when it comes to this subject. 

 

Let's take a look a two sides to the same question. 

 

 

Thanks for the invitation!  I'm sure we could as well, but it might take more than two pints before you could admit you are completely wrong.

 

 

This quote would make more sense if I included the whole conversation. But since its Garbad and we all know how he feels about arty, you can pretty much Google the term "anti arty" and you'll probably find dozens of comments from him. I may not agree with what he has to say, but I can respect him for speaking his mind on the matter regardless of the trolls.

 

As an arty-preferred CW player that is ore than proficient, I can confidently say that the idea of 'arty protector' is ludicrous. Light tanks rushing will always be a problem when your team doesn't control the map, or leaves flanks open. The more tanks you have on the front, the less gaps there will be. A ight tank getting through to the arty is a grave failure on behalf of the team, and a tank sitting with the arty on contributes to the likeliness these failures will happen. Like HIV, the best policy is prevention. If you want to contribute to the play of artillery, you need to contributing to map and vision control; generally speaking, this means you need to be in the middle of the map. Arty don't function well with the pressure, angle and elevations when shooting into their own half of the map - for them to function well they need to be shooting into the opponents half. 

 

The less map you control, the less cover you have to utilize, the less angles you can get on your enemy, and the less opportunities to spot tanks without being spotted yourself you have. If you don't control the map, then opposing scouts will identify where you are by 6th sense triangulation even if you remain hidden. Losing map control is most often failed by losing the game. Controlling more of the map means that any threats to the arty are identified well in advance and can be dealt with, and also providing more area for the arty to move around in so that the arty has much more control of firing angles (which really messes with people using cover).

 

Long story short... the closest you'll get to an arty protector is a scout or medium that is controlling the vision on the map.

 

 

This is more in the pro arty line, and most closely reflects my views regarding arty. Your best bet, and what I find works most effectively for me is to platoon with a buddy, either a med or a scout, but someone who will give you the vision to see the map, choose your targets and open fire. My buddy probably has more miles on AMX 1390  then most hookers. If I remember correctly he has his crew/tank set up so someone has to be within 100 meters to see him, and not even then. Point is, with his eyes "seeing" the map for me, I have more time to aim/prioritize/shoot at targets. A good scout/arty platoon can change how a battle plays out if they work together, because it's just not me that my buddy is helping out, but the rest of the team as well because they can see what I can, and if everyone has a clear picture of the battle field, well then good things can happen. If not....well I really don't have to describe if things go bad, we all have been there. 

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I'd just like to add that if you are playing scout or a fast medium you should be flexing to kill that scout your team is ignoring because you have the speed to do it. I used to do it all the time in my Chaffee after my initial scouting run. T-50-2 would get lit well ahead of time and blitz through and I'd move to get into position to chase him down before he could get spots off. Map awareness is by far the most useful skill to develop in tanks.

Edit: Didn't even notice there was a page 2 to this derp

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When I played arty a lot pre-nerf, sometimes in the lower tiers someone would stay behind to "guard arty". Invariably what would happen is that a rampaging scout would happen along, and before the "arty protector" could react, the arty would be spotted, then dead, and then the arty protector had his hands full protecting himself.

 

Platooning with a scout/med is an interesting idea, just be careful who you platoon with...don't platoon an su-8 with a t-50 or you'll find yourself in a tier 8 game.

 

As a sometimes arty player I agree with everything that's been said, the best arty protection your team can provide is denying the critical parts of the map to the enemy while lighting targets for you.

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Why does this always happen to me?

 

I ask an ignorant thoughtful question (I still have a very high IQ -- "ignorance quotient" -- with respect to WoT) and get a bunch of educated, thoughtful and considerate responses.

Good stuff.

Thanks to all who took the time to respond.  I can be a better player for it.

Ken

 

 

Fixed that for ya . . . haven't seen you ask an ignorant question yet.

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How to actually protect arty:

Win the fucking game.

If you are doing that, they usually don't have time to get someone in to kill the arty. Not that it really matters on all the city maps.

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How to actually protect arty:

If you are doing that, they usually don't have time to get someone in to kill the arty. Not that it really matters on all the city maps.

 

My original OP is very dated.  =(

 

Like everyone here,I play to win. and sometimes that has the side effect of keeping an arty teammate alive. However, as you can surmise from

 

my interest in deliberately protecting arty has dropped to zero.

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Thanks for the invitation!  I'm sure we could as well, but it might take more than two pints before you could admit you are completely wrong.

It actually required zero pints, after all said and done.

Now with a measurable number of games since divesting myself of all arty I have come to appreciate the frustration of occasionally getting one-shot. Perhaps because I played so many games in arty, I _seem_ to find them relatively easy to avoid at the low tiers I frequent. It only takes a few weaves and bobs to shake many clickers....or so it _seems....just anecdotal observations.

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It actually required zero pints, after all said and done.

Now with a measurable number of games since divesting myself of all arty I have come to appreciate the frustration of occasionally getting one-shot. Perhaps because I played so many games in arty, I _seem_ to find them relatively easy to avoid at the low tiers I frequent. It only takes a few weaves and bobs to shake many clickers....or so it _seems....just anecdotal observations.

 

Low tier tanks are faster, and low tier arty has less splash.  Even so, it's still fairly easy to avoid arty at high tiers, the (more valid) complaint is about the one shot component of it and especially having that be so heavily RNG based.

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Apart from this Ken, even if the thread and original question is kind of outdated: You might want to give Tazilon's scout guide a look.

What came to my mind when I read your question (how to protect arty) was basically that this might be the "counter-scouting / anti-scouting" playstyle.

 

As a LT (/ flexible MT) player I found some good advice there, even if it took me quite some time to actually apply it to my playing style.

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The true reason people don't like artillery, the actual reason, the scientifically proven and verifiable reason that people don't like arty is this: 

Playing against arty isn't fun.

Artillery is (usually) not OP when you look at the stats in terms of DPG or WR. They rarely swing a battle single handedly in the way tanks do and I'm sure that the players aren't significantly worse at the game than most players of regular tanks. Why all the hate then? Because every time you get hit by artillery you feel cheated, you ask "why me?", "fuck XVM targeting arty" you might proclaim. It's just not "fun" to lose all your health to someone who never even had line of sight, it feels cheep and it feels unfair.

 

Furthermore, artillery punishes good aggressive players more so than it punishes overly passive noobs. It's usually the good players that are out there spotting, engaging targets early and generally taking calculated risks where as the true baddies are perfectly content sitting behind rocks without contributing for the majority of the game. This means that better players, players who are more actively trying to decide battles have more reason to hate artillery than most. It also means that bad players just don't understand why there is so much hatred towards artillery because they are able to content themselves for 15 minutes at a time sitting behind a rock.

 

Long story short, the better you are the more you should hate artillery, and I hate artillery a lot, but not as much as Garbad.

 

 

Additional: @ s!Gm4 good scouts don't recommend listening to Tazilon. Just because he has played one scout tank a lot that doesn't make him good at it. When my grandfather started to shit his pants no one made the claim that he must be getting really good at going to the toilet just because he has done it more than anyone else in the family. 

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Additional: @ s!Gm4 good scouts don't recommend listening to Tazilon. Just because he has played one scout tank a lot that doesn't make him good at it. When my grandfather started to shit his pants no one made the claim that he must be getting really good at going to the toilet just because he has done it more than anyone else in the family. 

 

Could you hint me at where else to get a decent and comprehensive guide for LT and scouting behaviour, then? :) That'd be greatly appreciated!

I mean, it's not that I think Tazilon's the one and only, I disagree with some points, but his general write up is solid and can be a a good basis for your own creativity, insight and experience.

 

Apart from that: Your implication that I am no good scout is sound. I' working hard to improve. However, I don't see how the degree of one's scouting-skill is connected to referencing information material.

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Could you hint me at where else to get a decent and comprehensive guide for LT and scouting behaviour, then? :) That'd be greatly appreciated!

I mean, it's not that I think Tazilon's the one and only, I disagree with some points, but his general write up is solid and can be a a good basis for your own creativity, insight and experience.

 

Apart from that: Your implication that I am no good scout is sound. I' working hard to improve. However, I don't see how the degree of one's scouting-skill is connected to referencing information material.

 

I didn't actually mean to imply that you are not a good scout, although that is how it reads. What I mean to say was that the best LT players in the game don't recommend listening to him. Your attitude for continued improvement is commendable. While listening to his guide is probably better than nothing, it is something like 50+ pages of dribble for something when all that is needed is a few pages and some observant experience. 

 

I'm a total egomaniac an so I recommend two of my own guides and one of jacg123s.

Jacg123's Chinese light guide and very helpful light tank hints

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/194844-jacgs-guide-to-being-totally-awesome-in-the-type-62-wz-131-and-wz-132-wip/

My early guide to light tanks written in jan 2012, taz totally copied it and didn't even reference prior work. (replays don't work, still useful guide to understand your job as a light)

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/85288-fablkaks-guide-to-light-tanks/

My more recent guide to the Auf Panther (a tank I can't recommend unless you have LOTS of spare silver)

Note how tazilon decided to chime in and give very poor advice against ramming in the Auf panther. He is bad at maths.

 

This helpful list of other guides

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Thanks for the links and clarification :) Very much appreciated - and no personal offense taken. ;)

 

 listening to his guide is probably better than nothing, it is something like 50+ pages of dribble for something when all that is needed is a few pages and some observant experience

 

And that's exactly what I meant to say. It serves as a starting point, even though there might be (no - there IS) more / better information around.

After all, when you learn math you start with "1+2" not with "a²+b²=c²". His information is easy to digest for the early learner, but as soon as you become more advanced, you yearn for more, more detailed and sophisticated information, and eventually will observe that some of his old info is outdated, situational, or does not apply to you.

 

 

BTT:

 

Yesterday I got oneshotted by a CGC from full health. In part my own error, as I was lit and held still for long enough time to be a target. Even though, what bugged me most is the fact that There is nearly nothing you can do against this. One click and you are sent back to garage.

Reminds me of the time back in Counterstrike when the AWP (sniper rifle) was a one-shot kill weapon. Eventually they nerfed it to the part that you have to score a body or head hit in order for it to be lethal. Limb hits only deprived you of most of your hp.

Even though this approach has been discussed before, I think it would be valid as an _immediate_ nerf to arty as well. Though I would sleep better if I knew that the friggin clickers would have been removed completely or the arty mechanic reworked so that it makes it fair.

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