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Valachio

113

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2. It's armor is 100% sloping.  I've wiggled like a mad man in the IS7 to try and get rounds to bounce when I am front line tanking, but to no avail.......the tank is paper.  With the 113, I wiggle like crazy and 80% of the time my tracks will eat the shot (my is7 won't even eat the shot in the tracks without taking damage....what in the actual fuck). 10% of the time they will hit a crazy auto bounce angle on my UFP, the other 10% will be actual damaging shots.....

 

Math checks out. Vehicle with 25% greater nominal thickness definitely relies on sloping more than the other.

 

Jd0xWoh.jpg

 

Let's not even consider that the IS-7's tracks are wider and placed farther from the hull, meaning HEAT and HE detonate farther away, but that the 113 has 90mm flat armor behind them and the IS-7 has 100mm curved.

 

You have anecdotes, you don't have facts.

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You have anecdotes, you don't have facts.

I think my entire post implied that it was anecdotal with the 80% this and 10% that.  I hope I don't have to start putting disclaimers for people.......

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-Yeah it has shit module placement.  But that is a key feature of the Chinese lines.  Even the coveted WZ-111-1-4 has shit module placement, and that tank was voted the best tier 9 tank over the E75...

-Shit gun depression (again, key feature of Chinese tanks)

-This is the only thing I think that needs buffing.  The turret cheeks need a severe buff to stay a bit more competitive

-UFP is weak if the player performs shit angling.  This isn't sideways or diagonal angling that we are used to.  But upwards angling......you have to find that 2 degrees so you can make the auto bounces, not come up with random as fuck positions in hopes it works.

-LFP is stupid weak, but if you are getting hit in the lower plate more often than not you are playing the 113 wrong.  The ONLY time you should be getting hit in the LFP if you are doing it right is if pubbies are getting RNG lucky (That's my opinion at least)

-Then maybe I'm lucky at this as sidescraping works a majority of the time in this tank for me.  I just sidescrape at an extreme angle.  Maybe you need to check your angling again.

-The gun is actually pretty damn good.  I agree with the lowish pen, but honestly it doesn't really matter.  Poor alpha damage? If 440 Alpha is poor for you then you clearly don't have an E5 or 215b and all you play is the E100 and IS7.....as 440 alpha is pretty fuckin good in tier 10.....Poor DPM? I have no clue where you are getting your stats for this tank but it's affecting your credibility.  The 113 can have a 9 second reload with vents, rammer, and BIA.  Lower even if food is equipped (which is fucking stupid the tank catches fire pretty often).  9 second reload combined with 440 alpha makes it have a HIGHER DPM than the E5......it starts to RIVAL the 215b.  Poor aim time and accuracy?  It's better than the IS7s aim time and accuracy, the E100s aim time and accuracy....and it's actually quite easy to pull of snapshots in the tank.  Rammer, Vstab, Vents plus BIA on the crew make the aim time and gun stats a dream......maybe you are throwing shit like torsion bars on for your equipment because what you're describing doesn't exist on the 113.....

 

The E50M can rival this tank, but honestly there are things the E50M doesn't have in comparison.  HP and DPM (2 VERY important things for me) so I will still take a 113 for the MOMENT (as I haven't played the E50M yet so I can't make an official opinion).

 

1: in case of other chinese tanks the module places is one of the main cons, not one of the long list of cons

2: having bad gun depression is not a problem, if there is something else to compensate (can be anything) like lower tier chinese have, 113 doesnt, also tier 10 is about the only tier 10 tank with terrible gun depression

3: agree

4: if you have ``armor`` which only works in perfect situations its not armor, its cardboard, if the enemy is above you, GG, if he face hugs you, GG, high pen and no way to angle backwards? GG the list is endless, UFP is just way, way to thin (E50 has almost the same effective UFP armor as 113 (E50, E50m has actually better armor)

5: but again, it is there and it cant be avoided always

6: anything not autobounce penetrates, it basically the same terrible side armor as E5 or the mediums

7: here lies the difference, the platform is armor wise total shit for a heavy (see above), so that means it needs good mobility (check) good soft stats (not really) and a good gun (no) to be a good tank

 

you cant have everything medicore or bad and still be good, an E5 has lower alpha dmg, but 2x the gun depression more turret armor, almost the same mobility and better ufp armor on top of 10 other small advantages

 

113 has all the cons of chinese tanks, but none of the strengths, it combines some of the worst possible traits in 1 tank, but has no strength, some dpm, some hp and some mobility, its just a tier 9 tank, drop hp to 1800, a bit lower rof (just a bit) and it would be an ok tier 9 tank (something like a chinese IS8, but better ufp and turret armor and no spaced side armor and a weaker lfp)

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I think my entire post implied that it was anecdotal with the 80% this and 10% that.  I hope I don't have to start putting disclaimers for people.......

Anecdotes are not good in arguments. Thats what he is saying. Saying an IS-7 relies more on angles than a tank that purely relies on angles is dumb. Your argument would have been better at "I dont think the tank is good so I wont perform in it."

 

Just saying. 

 

Also your IS-7 has nearly the same stats as your 113, you seem to perform the same in them. 

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Well considering that the 113's armor is 100% reliant on slope, and that it can be penned frontally by a KT even with angling...

I fail to see how that's worse armor than a -7

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Anecdotes are not good in arguments. Thats what he is saying. Saying an IS-7 relies more on angles than a tank that purely relies on angles is dumb. Your argument would have been better at "I dont think the tank is good so I wont perform in it."

 

Just saying. 

 

Also your IS-7 has nearly the same stats as your 113, you seem to perform the same in them. 

Thank you, I'll be sure to provide better support next time :)

 

Yeah, I do perform the same in them right now (according to stats).  Bear with me another anecdote coming.  Before I took a 3 month break, my IS7 was my best tier 10.  Was holding like a 79% win rate over like 30 battles in it and around 3k avg DPG (so clearly I was doing SOMETHING right for those 30 battles).  The I come back, and everything went to hell.  Basically was the exact opposite for me in the 113....started off like a shitter in it, wanted it to be removed, hell replaced with a wz-111-1-4 variant as well.  Then I raged on the official forums and someone (Inko) taught me how to play the damn thing (stats are still being repaired).

 

Maybe I am the most RNG influenced tanker in the game :( which is probably not a good thing......

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Thank you, I'll be sure to provide better support next time :)

Yeah, I do perform the same in them right now (according to stats). Bear with me another anecdote coming. Before I took a 3 month break, my IS7 was my best tier 10. Was holding like a 79% win rate over like 30 battles in it and around 3k avg DPG (so clearly I was doing SOMETHING right for those 30 battles). The I come back, and everything went to hell. Basically was the exact opposite for me in the 113....started off like a shitter in it, wanted it to be removed, hell replaced with a wz-111-1-4 variant as well. Then I raged on the official forums and someone (Inko) taught me how to play the damn thing (stats are still being repaired).

Maybe I am the most RNG influenced tanker in the game :( which is probably not a good thing......

What is small sample size, Alex?

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What is small sample size, Alex?

I know I know 30 battles can hardly even classify as "small".  More like non existent......but it does remain that I was doing SOMETHING right for those 30 battles......or like I said I am the most RNG influenced player in World of Tanks :(

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I just don't see how a tank that can only perform in "the ideal situation" would be a good tank. It has some mobility and DPM, but why not a medium then?

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Shifty, I think the most confusing part is your 

 

I've wiggled like a mad man in the IS7 to try and get rounds to bounce when I am front line tanking, but to no avail.......the tank is paper.

 

Replay(s) required.  If the IS-7 is paper then everything else is tissue paper, it is one of the most reliably tough tanks in the game.

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First time I played the IS-7 on the test server I was in awe of how much I didn't have to worry about bounces. I bounced an E-100 heat shell with spaced armor on the side, and hull down the turret is fan-fucking-tastic. 113 on the other hand, I can't say anything about as I haven't played it.

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Shifty, I think the most confusing part is your 

 

 

Replay(s) required.  If the IS-7 is paper then everything else is tissue paper, it is one of the most reliably tough tanks in the game.

Gladly.  I will start gathering replays for people to look at :)

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Gladly.  I will start gathering replays for people to look at :)

I just dont get why we even need replays. Even just looking at the turret you can basically know the tank has good armor. Whatever though, prove me wrong I guess. 

 

I sadly dont have an account to play this, so I cannot see for myself. 

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I just dont get why we even need replays. Even just looking at the turret you can basically know the tank has good armor. Whatever though, prove me wrong I guess. 

 

I sadly dont have an account to play this, so I cannot see for myself. 

I was under the impression that it was IS7 replays needed.  No biggie I'll start to grab some 113 replays as well.

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I was under the impression that it was IS7 replays needed.  No biggie I'll start to grab some 113 replays as well

I was saying that I personally feel like the is-7 just does have good armor, and dont really feel like replays are needed. I would like to see replays though, I was just saying that personally I dont even know how you think the tank has bad armor. 

 

prove me wrong I guess. 

This is what the replays are for in my opinion. You basically have to show the IS-7s armor is shit, not have the IS-7 show that it is good. 

 

Of course this is all just an attempt to convince you the IS-7 is good. Cause you can just play the 113 and it shouldn't hurt anyone. Other than you that is.

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Well we're comparing a tank with a 250mm UFP, 130mm LFP, 130mm side, 270mm frontal turret, and 200mm side turret to a tank with a 300mm UFP, 220mm LFP, 200mm side, 350mm frontal turret, and 250mm side turret (which also has more gun depression to abuse terrain and no turret roof overmatch). It's not really a comparison worth making, there are almost no situations where a 113's armor scheme isn't strictly inferior to the IS-7's. I'd hope that much is something we all know - the 113's armor and gun depression are absolutely garbage, that's why it has decent mobility and a better version of the IS-4's gun.

 

The most direct comparison to the 113 is the E-50M, which trades off HP, a little firepower, lots of turret armour, and side armour for an infinitely more accurate/better handling gun, more gun depression (twice as much to the side), twice the camo, and oodles better mobility. It's hard to directly compare the IS-7 and 113 because of how different they are... but pretty much everything I've ever seen as far as statistics and general opinion point to the IS-7 being much better.

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Question regarding this tank.  I'm currently grinding the WZ 1-4 and I have the WZ-120 unlocked.  Since the 120 and and the 113 have the same top gun, once I research the 113, won't the gun on the 120 automatically be researched then for that tank as well?  Would save me about 60k free exp if I finish the grind on the WZ 1-4 first before buying the 120 if this is true like I think it is.

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Question regarding this tank.  I'm currently grinding the WZ 1-4 and I have the WZ-120 unlocked.  Since the 120 and and the 113 have the same top gun, once I research the 113, won't the gun on the 120 automatically be researched then for that tank as well?  Would save me about 60k free exp if I finish the grind on the WZ 1-4 first before buying the 120 if this is true like I think it is.

AFAIK when you get 113, WZ-120 gets the gun unlocked.

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...

The E50M can rival this tank, but honestly there are things the E50M doesn't have in comparison.  HP and DPM (2 VERY important things for me) so I will still take a 113 for the MOMENT (as I haven't played the E50M yet so I can't make an official opinion).

You are not correct.

 

E50M - 2437 dpm; -8 gun depression; armor on hull; weaker turret armor;  0.30 accuracy; 2.10 aim time; 2050 hps; 60km/h and better resistance;

113     - 2420 dpm; -4 gun depression; angles on hull; better turret armor;   0.36 accuracy; 2.70 aim time; 2300 hps;  50 km/h and worse resistances;

 

So 113 has stronger turret armor and a bit more hps. Not enough to compensate the rest.

 

I really like my 113 though, but I rather sit in E50M if I want to win. 113 could use some type of buff imo - maybe dpm or armor.

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Just giving 113 -6 degree gun depression would be already considerable buff. Currently its too hard to find proper hull down to protect lower front plate and at a same time be able to shoot enemies.

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Question regarding this tank.  I'm currently grinding the WZ 1-4 and I have the WZ-120 unlocked.  Since the 120 and and the 113 have the same top gun, once I research the 113, won't the gun on the 120 automatically be researched then for that tank as well?  Would save me about 60k free exp if I finish the grind on the WZ 1-4 first before buying the 120 if this is true like I think it is.

 

Yes. Completing the heavy and light lines for China takes the WZ-120 from one of the most expensive tier 9s to complete to one of the cheapest. 

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Well ... there are almost no situations where a 113's armor scheme isn't strictly inferior to the IS-7's.

Sidescraping, brah!

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Sidescraping, brah!

You can sidescrape in pretty much any tank that isn't overmatch side armor. You just have to make the angle steeper

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