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Not to mention the spaced armor on the IS-7 sides...

 

The 113 has it as well, though it's 20mm instead of 30mm and the underlying armor is both thinner and not sloped as well as the IS-7's.

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The 113 has it as well, though it's 20mm instead of 30mm and the underlying armor is both thinner and not sloped as well as the IS-7's.

 

I think a lot of people understand intuitively the issues with the IS7 armor, without really understanding how important that "in cut" slope combined with the spaced strip is. I know it was only a few weeks ago, around the the time the 907 was put into test, that I finally created a good mental model of what that armor scheme looks like. 

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I think a lot of people understand intuitively the issues with the IS7 armor, without really understanding how important that "in cut" slope combined with the spaced strip is. I know it was only a few weeks ago, around the the time the 907 was put into test, that I finally created a good mental model of what that armor scheme looks like. 

 

Indeed. The Chieftain covers it in one of his videos.

 

http://youtu.be/Hoecf7ovrRM?t=3m39s

 

The TL;DR, for those who don't know, is that the IS-7 is somewhat like a speed boat in hull shape (though it lacks a proper keel), but it has spaced armor along the sides that makes it look like a conventional sponson arrangement like most other tanks. The screenshot below has the space armor in translucent pink, which not only eats away at the penetration capability of an incoming round, it disguises the angle of the armor behind it, so it can be hard to judge how likely a hit is to actually do anything.

 

zTeLW3n.jpg

 

The 113 lacks this, and 90mm of vertical armor is...not really all that great at anything but extreme angles at tier 10.

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You can sidescrape in pretty much any tank that isn't overmatch side armor. You just have to make the angle steeper

Im talking about sidescraping where you actually sidescrape and shoot at the enemy. In Is-7 its pretty tricky since you negate the pike and you have dat overmatchable hull floor.

Not that is7s spaced armor is useless, but when you sidescrape nobody shoots at it. Everyone shoots tracks and there its 100mm vs 90mm so its pretty much fair and square - autobounce or pen

E5 has way too short hull to sidescrape decently, FV and VK have that stupid turret ring. Is4 and E100 are better sidescrapers, but only untill you get shot by HEAT, then you are just free damage pool.

113 can have LFP covered, sides at autobounce, otherwise useless strip of spaced armor protects from Heat, UFP is about 270mm AP, 340mm HEAT effective and turret cheeks are penetrable by HEAT but hard to hit unless you are static. Only those bugged cupolas where WG decided to save up on some polygons are real weakspots.

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......

The 113 lacks this, and 90mm of vertical armor is...not really all that great at anything but extreme angles at tier 10.

Yeah but i think WG fucked up the model and 113 should also have this armor arrangement, just as 111 does. 113 hull is modified 111 hull after all and even the visual model hints this.

They gonna rebalance 113 a bit when it goes HD, so maybe they will fix this. In a year or two...

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Im talking about sidescraping where you actually sidescrape and shoot at the enemy.

So are the rest of us...

The 113 has a huge UFP problem. The problem with being slope dependent is that if slope is negated (firing from above eg KT, E-75) or if autobounce not achieved (HEAT rounds and their 85 autobounce) then the UFP effectiveness drops dramatically. The net result is that E-100s for example can just shoot through the UFP without breaking a sweat... With AP or heat!

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2 sr360:

You can sidescrape in pretty much any tank that isn't overmatch side armor. You just have to make the angle steeper

Obviously not. Either that or we have different opinions on what is proper sidescraping and what is just baiting a shot.

UFP is not an issue it just needs a different playstyle than is7 facehugger. Most notably you have to get the feel about the ufp angle and try to use the terrain, which may be more like a hard work than fun for someone.

And If E100 yolos too close, u can try to use your mobility and sidehug him, than your weaknes (low profile) becomes your strength.

IMHO Only real issue this tank has are square cupolas and driver bathing in gas tanks with ammo strapped to his chest and stuffed to the most notorious weakspot in WoT. Its not a bad tank only has strange playstyle and is bugged...

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IS7 used to have this armor model:

GSFpZJu.jpg

 

you can here clearly see this steep inwards angle (the box thing chieftain mentions can also be seen)

 

ps: below that box thing is the side weak though, 100mm flat, its just you should avoid shooting the seemingly flat area, especially when angled (63 deg angle means it easy goes over autobounce angle)

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Yeah that spaced armor is just sheet metal that was used as a storage box. I realy doubt it was 30mm thick, more like 5mm in reality, but hey, germans have WTE100...

Just to add to the picture. Is7 belly armor is 30mm and as you can see its sloped so can be hit from the side. In game mechanics it means you can overmatch it and go trough it no matter the angle. Plus the rear sprocket wheel (not on the picture obviously) is somewhat protruding from the hull and is also a weakspot when sidescraping. But thats common to lots of heavies even 113...

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So many complaints about the 113. Am I the only one that lovea it. For me it is a perfect combo of speed and armor, and the gun is in a sweet spot between alpha and DPM. For me it is a MUCH MUCH better tank than the overhiped piece of trash called T110E5.

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I like 113 too but i tried out is-7 on friends account and it felt so much easier to play im not really surprised why people hate this. If i played is7 first and then 113 id scream POS as well.

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Yeah that spaced armor is just sheet metal that was used as a storage box. I realy doubt it was 30mm thick, more like 5mm in reality.

You can see from Chieftain's hatch that that looks about 3 cm thick.

 

0e6Ojy1.gif

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From this angle i really only see bent sheet metal with few reinforcements from the inside to prevent twisting, wich may be 3-4 cm. If it was 3 cm thick everywhere i doubt he could manipulate with it so easily. But maybe im blind after all, who knows...

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IS IT MORE OBVIOUS NOW?

Its the same shit they did with the T-34-3! They gave it the model of a far superior gun than the stats it gets, its infuriating! 

okKEMkz.gif

U4khH6b.png

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You get mobility for gun handling.

 

Don`t see a problem.

 

play the 113 and you will see the problem :P

 

113 is a tier 9 tank with more hp and a tiny bit much rof

 

with 1800 hp and everything exactly the same, it would be an decent tier 9 tank, its that bad... (decent, not good...)

 

IS IT MORE OBVIOUS NOW?

Its the same shit they did with the T-34-3! They gave it the model of a far superior gun than the stats it gets, its infuriating! 

giphy.gif

U4khH6b.png

 

Ah, you mean the different muzzle brake for the same gun! :P

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play the 113 and you will see the problem :P

 

113 is a tier 9 tank with more hp and a tiny bit much rof

 

with 1800 hp and everything exactly the same, it would be an decent tier 9 tank, its that bad... (decent, not good...)

 

Ah, you mean the different muzzle brake for the same gun! :P

No, the whole gun is longer, if you take the Muzzle break off the 113's gun it is still as long as the 121's gun.

 

Flametz said apparently its the model for a 130mm? Even more infuriating >~<

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No, the whole gun is longer, if you take the Muzzle break off the 113's gun it is still as long as the 121's gun.

 

Flametz said apparently its the model for a 130mm? Even more infuriating >~<

Not the WZ-111 1-4's 130mm per-se, but definitely one. It looks like a match for a proposed 130mm for the 113.

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Not the WZ-111 1-4's 130mm per-se, but definitely one. It looks like a match for a proposed 130mm for the 113.

Yeah, its not the 1-4's, but besides the muzzle break design its close.

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Knowing WG, they will argue that the WZ-120's 122mm was mounted too far back in the turret, so in a model of the same gun where the mounting pin is further down the breech block i.e. the gun sticks out of the turret further... oh, and they also used a slightly different muzzle brake because of the change in the pivoting "pin" positioning.

 

I agree the 113 could really use a decent 130mm gun to compensate for overall MEHness.

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Yeah, its not the 1-4's, but besides the muzzle break design its close.

Actually, looking at it closer it can also be a relative of the M-46/Type 59 130mm field gun (without the pepperbox muzzle brake, which the chinese clone, model Type 59-1, omitted). 230mm of penetration on the APHE round @ 1km (1000 meters).

... which is more or less sitting at 270mm+ AP penetration in WoT terms... and this is APHE (the same type of "gold ammo" the SU-100Y has, meaning less penetration but more dmg than normal AP).

Essentially, you're looking at a straight-up better 130mm. More penetration, better dmg (probably 560 in WoT), and with 60's/70's modifications on the Type 59 130mm model potentially better RoF. I would shit myself if WG gave it those stats and i had to fight it with a E-50M...

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