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TheLovePanda

A Part of the Secret to Successful Tanking (cont.)

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So I made a post yesterday about winning in solopubs. I made a big deal about having the “advantage” but I was too vague and didn’t really describe what I meant. I’m going to explain here what I mean about having the upper hand, advantage, whatever you want to call it and some ways to get there.

 

When I talk about “the advantage,” I’m talking about winning and dealing damage. I read a post that described WoT battles as a series of smaller encounters, which they are. So the question is: how do I win the smaller encounter that I’m in, so that I can move on to help in other encounters and eventually win the whole battle? This, fairly obviously, involves you dealing a lot of damage, and preferably not taking any. This is the advantage: a situation (position, usually) that you are in that allows you to effectively deal damage while taking very little. A situation that allows for advantageous trading, I guess.

 

This may not seem like a big deal, and is very obvious to those who are already good at the game, but for me the revelation came in the sense of thinking in an advantage oriented way. Meaning, I look at a situation and think to myself, “do I have the advantage over my opponents? Am I able to kill them and deal damage without dying or taking severe damage myself?” If you are thinking like this and the answer to these questions is always “yes” you will be a super unicum.

 

The answer will not always be yes, however, and when it is “no” my solution is to leave. Get out of whatever disadvantageous situation you are in and find a different one. In my opinion, nothing is worse for you or your team than fighting a losing battle, so any situation that is different from the one you are currently in is probably better (or you can find a way to make it better).

 

In my mind there are two ways of gaining the advantage over your enemies: 1) You make a situation yourself, create one by good positioning that allows you to have the advantage, or 2) you notice that you are in a situation where you already have the advantage, but you have to make use of it for it to be fully realized. The following games have a mixture of these two methods, so hopefully some illustration will help show what I mean.

 

I talked about a game on Lakeville that changed everything for me because I realized that during this entire game I had the advantage over the enemy. I’m going to go over what happened, what I was thinking, and what decisions worked etc. in this game and in two others. There’s a lot here so sorry for TL;DR.

 

***

 

Starting off the game I go to the middle road on Lakeville to see if there are any initial shots to be had. Everything is a trade, an exchange. What you have ideally is an exchange with an infinite damage dealt/hp lost ratio (i.e. you deal damage without taking any, X damage over 0). I knew that this mid situation was likely to result in one of these types of trades, at least for a while.

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I took this bush because if I got spotted I could easily back off and not take too much damage.

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I spot a 50M and some other tanks and am easily able to deal damage without being spotted. This is the ultimate trading situation, where you have no chance of taking damage and are able to deal a lot.

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After dealing some damage here I move up, keeping track of what tanks have and have not been spotted.  More infinite trading. Here you can see that I am at a serious advantage over my enemies, able to deal damage without being spotted or not easily engaged. It did seriously help that there were some decent players at the flag as well. 

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After a bit a Foch 155 takes interest in me and I realize that both of their t9 tds are on the path with me. I am no longer able to “trade” effectively and have become pinned down, and what’s more the enemy is breaking through the valley. I actually didn’t realize until one of my allies pinged it on the map. I was too focused on trying to kill the last few tanks around the flag. This trading situation had become stale, and since I was no longer at an advantage I left to get a different angle on the battle.

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Here you can see they have an IS8, E75, and a bunch of other stuff about to kill my teammates still in our spawn. I purposely go low on this ridge to gain a better position because I know that a head-on encounter will likely be disadvantageous for me and I’m much better off engaging from range/cover etc.

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This is the position I took, and while my teammates did end up dying the enemies were eliminated and the flag was captured. You can see that this spot is much more advantageous for engaging the enemy heavy tanks than if I were to brawl them head on. I made this spot for myself, created this situation where I am an advantage and they are not. This is the key, I think.

 

Long story short, we wrecked them and I got a lot of damage. GG, I think. So how to have more games like this? I have more examples. Take for instance a battle that I had in my E100 on Arctic Region.

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This game is an example of having an advantage, knowing it, and making use of it to its full potential. Looking at my minimap I can see right off the bat that their BatChat (one of their only t10s) is on the other flank, and the stuff coming towards me is nothing but delicious noms for the E100. I am worried about that WT E100, but Brutal_Cupcake finds him in a minute.

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I move up and their only t10 heavy has decided to be useless and take the lower road, leaving his teammates undefended. At this point I know that there is nothing keeping me from decimating each and every one of those t8-9 tanks, and I begin to do what E100s do best.

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After cleaning up those tanks there is nothing left but to eliminate the FV and Tiger. Also notice that the WT is on the other flank, nowhere near enough to be a threat.

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Takeaways? Watch your map, look for opportunities. Through some basic map awareness I learned of an advantage and was able to destroy a large portion of their team by myself. This was a 9.3k damage Radley Walters’ loss. Brutal could have helped me carry but he got Waffened in horrible flanking maneuver accident.

 

The last game I want to give as an example has elements of both ways of acquiring advantages. It was a loss on Hidden Village.

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I took this spot initially because I have no idea where to go on this map as a med (I heard town was useless). This led to some cursory initial shots, but no real obvious advantages. That is, until the M103, E50M and T32 all get behind the rock in front of me.

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As you can see they are all low health, and because their heavies and TDs are occupied elsewhere (and unable to shoot me) I have a very large advantage over them being full heath etc.

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The 50M is being pretty cocky and so I suspect that the Foch 155 is behind him and I was right, however to Foch misses his shot and gets wrecked by our JagdE100, leading him to back away and leaving the three tanks in front of me with no defense.

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After I kill those three tanks I notice that the battle on the high ground has gone poorly, and leaves me at a severe disadvantage. I knew I needed to leave, but had no real idea where to go.

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I ended up in this spot here which was actually pretty nice. Arty-safe, camouflaged, and best of all I had shots on 3 t10 tanks. Once again (and mostly by accident) I have the advantage over the enemy. I end up getting about 5000 damage this game, and my real mistake was when I charged in to finish the Leo1 and the t9 Waffen hit me for ~700. All in all though we almost won, and we would have too if it hadn’t been for our useless, very cocky 268 and our afk t9 Waffen. 

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To summarize this poast: find a way to get the advantage over your enemies by either making an advantageous situation for yourself for making use of one that is presented to you. If you are at a disadvantage, disengage, don’t fight that battle. If you are alive longer you can do more damage and help carry when you need to.  I don’t do this every time, obviously these were handpicked replays of when I did well (even though I lost two of them), but I think that the ideas are solid and would be good for every tanker to think about. Please neg and criticize, kthxbai.

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someone needs to do a guide on what to do when you have a tank bad for a particular map, such as a wide open map while you are in a maus with 3 arty on your team, how would you still perform optimally 

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REKT!

someone needs to do a guide on what to do when you have a tank bad for a particular map, such as a wide open map while you are in a maus with 3 arty on your team, how would you still perform optimally

You just dont.

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Both are shit maps if you ask me (Sand River is kind of OK). But you shouldnt have too much trouble, just dont try to "snipe".

On Erlenberg I would jusr rush the bridge and hope for the best (Use hills as cover).

On Sand River I would probably go to the north part of the map.

Thats considering I havent played the IS for 2 years now.

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Which bridge?  What if it is assault mode?

I am guilty of sniping on the IS on Erlenberg, Got about 1k damage doing it and when my team collapsed around me  I had a fantastic last stand when I got 3k damage total in the game.  I lite a T-43 on fire....

I was in a tier 8 battle though, and I was sick of constantly being derped by better tanks.

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There is always a dicussion to be had on the subject of padding stats versus winning.  As you can see by my stats, I'm not very good at either.  However, I when I play the games I always try to ask myself if my actions are going to better the teams chances of winning.  I will just make a few observations on your posting from that view point.

 

As for Lakeville encounter, it is usually won by the team who send less resources into the valley.  You spot on the Lakeville map is very good for vision control around the middle of the map but, can be very limited on targets when the enemy doesn't stop in exposed positions or takes the road along the edge.  By the 3rd screen shot the battle is already over & you could have drove in the lake without affecting the outcome.  The only tanks that could have reset the cap are the ones in the middle.  It would have been better for the team if you stayed in the middle even if you got killed keeping the enemy attention.

 

The Artic Region battle is a classic example of why slow tanks aren't favored by most Unicum players.  Once you commit to the river road, you are "all-in" on the attack to that area.  You have thrown away any chance of altering the outcome if things go badly in another map area.  Of course, with the E100, you don't have much choice in the matter.  This tank is best served on the coast road.  You do great pounding the pubbies but, lose the battle.  The thing you should be asking is:  "What could I have done better in this match to help my team win."    I'm guessing there isn't much you could have done based on the map & your tank. 

 

On the last map, I can't really comment about the high ground area.  I rarely go into that area.  I'm normally a medium driver & attempt to push thru the town & get on the enemy flank.  I was looking at the minimap of this battle & thinking that another gun supporting the city may have made a changed the outcome down there.  Of course, if the top gets rolled, the city doesn't matter.

 

IMO, you have made some very good points in this posting.  Having an understanding of how your actions affect the outcome of the game is important.  Many times after I get killed, I look back at my actions & realize that I put myself into a bad situation that led to my death. 

 

After reading this posting, I'm going to look for Hidden Valley tips.  I need to have a better understanding of this map.

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Wait.  You lost that Artic battle?  How?  Can you post more screens to show how you finished?

 

Looking at the map it looks like you overcommitted in order to finish getting the 'snacks' you wanted and in doing so you lost the ability to flex back fast (and I use that term loosely with your tank).  Was it worth it to kill those last couple tanks?  Could you have left them and been in a better defensive position at the sacrfice of a couple kills/damage?  I honestly don't know.

 

Also the T54 game I haven't figured out where a depression challenged medium goes on that map either.  I believe I would have stayed up top.  You committed to getting the low health tanks in the mid rock but by doing so gave up the high ground completely.  I don't know if the E100 up top was your downfall but I think you could have had a better chance to win had you dealt with him before going down to punish the town folk. 

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Wait.  You lost that Artic battle?  How?  Can you post more screens to show how you finished?

 

Looking at the map it looks like you overcommitted in order to finish getting the 'snacks' you wanted and in doing so you lost the ability to flex back fast (and I use that term loosely with your tank).  Was it worth it to kill those last couple tanks?  Could you have left them and been in a better defensive position at the sacrfice of a couple kills/damage?  I honestly don't know.

 

Also the T54 game I haven't figured out where a depression challenged medium goes on that map either.  I believe I would have stayed up top.  You committed to getting the low health tanks in the mid rock but by doing so gave up the high ground completely.  I don't know if the E100 up top was your downfall but I think you could have had a better chance to win had you dealt with him before going down to punish the town folk. 

 

I'll post some more screenshots of the Arctic battle when I get home. The bottom line was the rest of the t10s on my team just didn't do enough damage. With the "snacks" I actually just killed the FV and almost immediately went back to base (didn't even worry about Tiger). But really winning is very team dependent. I don't care what anyone else says, you can get tons of damage and kills, but no matter how much you do you can't get enough damage and kills for 15 people. You just can't. You need the rest of your team to perform on some level for a win, even if you do well.

 

The Hidden Village game was actually another Obj. 140 match, but honestly you're probably right. I most likely would have have been able to kill the t10s up top and then dealt with the town and maybe it would have been a win. When I was in the moment I didn't realize they were all so low health, otherwise I would have done what you suggested  o_o

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I'll post some more screenshots of the Arctic battle when I get home. The bottom line was the rest of the t10s on my team just didn't do enough damage. With the "snacks" I actually just killed the FV and almost immediately went back to base (didn't even worry about Tiger). But really winning is very team dependent. I don't care what anyone else says, you can get tons of damage and kills, but no matter how much you do you can't get enough damage and kills for 15 people. You just can't. You need the rest of your team to perform on some level for a win, even if you do well.

 

The Hidden Village game was actually another Obj. 140 match, but honestly you're probably right. I most likely would have have been able to kill the t10s up top and then dealt with the town and maybe it would have been a win. When I was in the moment I didn't realize they were all so low health, otherwise I would have done what you suggested  o_o

Not every battle is winnable.

 

Good write-ups in the OP.  I appreciate seeing your thought process for each of the battles.

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Results of this Poast:

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Same night.  That virtually NEVER happens.

I'll do a write-up of my thought process later.

I am looking forward to how I will do tonight. :doubleguns2:

 

PS.  Interesting, on both of the most debated maps on this thread.

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Wait.  You lost that Artic battle?  How?  Can you post more screens to show how you finished?

 

Looking at the map it looks like you overcommitted in order to finish getting the 'snacks' you wanted and in doing so you lost the ability to flex back fast (and I use that term loosely with your tank).  Was it worth it to kill those last couple tanks?  Could you have left them and been in a better defensive position at the sacrfice of a couple kills/damage?  I honestly don't know.

 

Also the T54 game I haven't figured out where a depression challenged medium goes on that map either.  I believe I would have stayed up top.  You committed to getting the low health tanks in the mid rock but by doing so gave up the high ground completely.  I don't know if the E100 up top was your downfall but I think you could have had a better chance to win had you dealt with him before going down to punish the town folk. 

 

Sorry I'm late with these.

 

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So I head back to base from where I was. Our Leo1 was still full hp so I thought we'd be fine...

 

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However he gets hit really hard by their bat arty, and is pretty useless overall. I decide to go over here to deal with these guys, and I was thinking as long as the waffen isn't backing them up I should be fine.

 

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They kill our t28 and proceed to yolo me, but I kill them both in style. 

 

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Also their Jtig was retarded and let me get on the side of him...Anyways after their dead our base starts getting capped so I head back to reset/kill. It's the waffen and he's on high HP.

 

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I load HE and hit him pretty hard, but he backs off and the Bat arty (who has relocated) proceeds to hammer me with a few well placed shots. The Bat was not my undoing though...

 

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I hit the waffen again, but this time with AP and he's left on just a few hitpoints. The Rhm that hasn't been spotted for a few minutes proceeds to come around the southern part of the map behind the waffen and land a shot with the 150mm. 

 

I honestly could have killed the Rhm but I thought the waffen would shoot me if I turned my turret. That was the mistake that really cost me. Neways, was a fun game and I got gud dmg. I can post the replay if you want it.

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Thanks for these topics, Panda! Great stuff, now if I can just execute them properly . . .

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