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First Wotlab post... Here it goes
 
My Basic Idea
Scouts. Scouts are the most under-rated class in the game at the moment. Even below arty at points I feel. Scouts like the A-20 are broken, and could use buffs to compensate. What would it accomplish though you may ask? Two things I feel would happen.
 
1) obviously less complaining by the scouts of "Im a dang tier 4 in a tier 8 battle"
2) It would allow arty to more effectively see tds and other tanks. This in the end would be a minor buff to arty, as more spots would be to their disposal (A small arty buff is needed imo) 
 
Arty would be able to hit TDs sooner, and possible knock them out of the game before they became a huge problem. A minor nerf to certain TDs are in store, only the Foch 155 and SU-122-44 come in mind for me, but not so wide-spread as they are suggesting. I realize it is a minor nerf to tanks like the T110s (not the 5) and more major to the 268 and Foch 155. 
 
Lets go over the major problems of TDs
1) Camo, scouts would thus light them up and reduce this problem
2) Armor, arty should be able to hit TDs more effectively and reduce this problem as well
3) Speed, a minor nerf would have to be in store for the TDs that shouldnt need it
4) Gun (Such as Alpha or ROF or a combo), for the most part, TDs have to have a good gun. What does TD stand for again? Tank DESTROYER, Not Tank Bouncer. Guns for most should stay the same. Again situational depending on the tank.
 
Improved scouting would be a great plus for this game. More xp and awards should be given out to scouting tanks. Add some sort of Epic Reward possibly. Patrol Duty is a great scouting reward, scout not near as much but it is up there. 
 
How to improve scouting, here are my suggestions
- Decrease TD camo minorly. (They still have to be kinda high up there)
- Improve scouts turning ability
- Improve view radius
- Possibly may have to nerf gun or increase MM for certain scouts (They may become too OP due to the increased turning speeds)
 
Honestly this isnt a lot, but I would think improved scouting would help our current situation much more than swinging the nerf hammer.
 
TL;DR Improved scouting should fix TDs
 
Sorry for the long post. If you disagree, don't just hit that big red button, explain. There is nothing I hate more than unexplained negative rep, I want to know why you disagree with me. This is my idea, it may be a cruddy one. What do you guys think?
 
~Happy Hunting!
 
P.S. WG release Assisted Damage publicly for us scout players! My WN8 suffers because of my scouting. Also I cant seem to get rid of this highlighted part :/ I copied part of it from a forum post and it wouldnt undo for me.

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I do agree that scouts are in a bad place (also that tier four scouts being in tier 8 is antiquated now with the addition of high tier lights but that's beside what you're saying in the thread) but you missed the other problem of TDs- vision. Right now they can combine those guns (which I'm on the fence about, not having much experience actually playing high tier TDs), armour and everything else without being team dependent when it comes to bringing them to bear. That makes them an OTT all-in-one package in some cases, I think the WF E-100 is the worst offender despite lacking turret armour. I know you proposed a buff to scout viewrange  but without some nerf to TD viewrange the death stars can still see out to max viewrange with some camo burning ability on top.

 

I might be biased towards Scout buffs though, because I really like my WZ-131 despite potatoing a lot in it.

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I do agree that scouts are in a bad place (also that tier four scouts being in tier 8 is antiquated now with the addition of high tier lights but that's beside what you're saying in the thread) but you missed the other problem of TDs- vision. Right now they can combine those guns (which I'm on the fence about, not having much experience actually playing high tier TDs), armour and everything else without being team dependent when it comes to bringing them to bear. That makes them an OTT all-in-one package in some cases, I think the WF E-100 is the worst offender despite lacking turret armour. I know you proposed a buff to scout viewrange  but without some nerf to TD viewrange the death stars can still see out to max viewrange with some camo burning ability on top.

 

I might be biased towards Scout buffs though, because I really like my WZ-131 despite potatoing a lot in it.

Yes that is a very good point. This is all dependent on the tank though, as the Jpz E-100 doesnt deserve really any nerf, while the 268 and others do, but yeah their view range is pretty large versus the actual scouting tanks. 

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Before I say anything else, to fix the highlighting issue, hit the button that look like a light switch in the upper let corner, it will switch it to the formatting code, and then switch it back, it will get rid of the invisible formatting, or it will allow you to see it so you can remove it yourself.
 
Now, the actual topic. I don't think this will work as intended.

  • The mobility of scouts really doesn't mean anything because of the accuracy changes, especially not the hull traverse speed, they already have the best hull traverse in the game. changing that will be a minor but irrelevant buff on the large scale
  • The camo nerf is already coming to TDs, but there are two scenarios to consider, active and passive scouting, passive scouting will favor the scout, but to passive scout you need to be at the edge of viewrange or have a bush to help you, the TD will almost always have a bush too so it will not be spotted by a passive scout until it fires, at which point his sixth will pop up and tell him to reverse back into cover, he's exposed for a 5-6 seconds at most if he doesn't back up immediately after firing regardless of sixth.
    Then there's active scouting, an active scout will have to get close due to the bush that will almost always be in the favor of the TD, it will almost guarantee that the scout is spotted first, either by the TD or by some of his buddies.
  • Increasing scout viewrange doesn't do anything, they are already pushing viewrange limits, as is everything else at high tier, including the TDs, there is simply nowhere to go with viewrange, the cap is below what is possible to reach, the only thing it would do is allow them to fit a different option in place of optics.
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Before I say anything else, to fix the highlighting issue, hit the button that look like a light switch in the upper let corner, it will switch it to the formatting code, and then switch it back, it will get rid of the invisible formatting, or it will allow you to see it so you can remove it yourself.

 

Now, the actual topic. I don't think this will work as intended.

  • The mobility of scouts really doesn't mean anything because of the accuracy changes, especially not the hull traverse speed, they already have the best hull traverse in the game. changing that will be a minor but irrelevant buff on the large scale
  • The camo nerf is already coming to TDs, but there are two scenarios to consider, active and passive scouting, passive scouting will favor the scout, but to passive scout you need to be at the edge of viewrange or have a bush to help you, the TD will almost always have a bush too so it will not be spotted by a passive scout until it fires, at which point his sixth will pop up and tell him to reverse back into cover, he's exposed for a 5-6 seconds at most if he doesn't back up immediately after firing regardless of sixth.

    Then there's active scouting, an active scout will have to get close due to the bush that will almost always be in the favor of the TD, it will almost guarantee that the scout is spotted first, either by the TD or by some of his buddies.

  • Increasing scout viewrange doesn't do anything, they are already pushing viewrange limits, as is everything else at high tier, including the TDs, there is simply nowhere to go with viewrange, the cap is below what is possible to reach, the only thing it would do is allow them to fit a different option in place of optics.

Okay thanks for the formatting issue. As to your points now.

- "The mobility of scouts really doesn't mean anything" That is never true. A Luchs can do tons of things a Batchat cant do (Batchat and Luchs are my two favs atm so Im using them) its amazing turning capability can make it crest a hill and turn back down almost instantly. The more mobility the better. I do see where you are coming from though.

- Your second point is very valid, but any smart scout, as I know they are rare, will approach likely sniping spots cautiously. They will only scout at highly camoflauged areas if they have ppl covering them and they have some line of safety. Such as Highway. On both sides with their hills, if a scout goes near the bottom of the ridge they can spot the TDs and everything without getting shot easily. They cant get good enough gun depression for this. There are points where the TDs camo will outweigh the Scouts, but that is normal imo. TDs deserve some camo still

- Third point. Sure Increased view range wont do much, although it will help a lot for passive scouts. I am trying to help active scouts more with these changes, but any improved form of scouting should help

 

Thank you for your input. Very insightful. The accuracy changes hurt scouts, but a mobility buff wouldnt be bad for them. Camo is always an issue, but you just have to adapt (basically the scouts job.) Third point is pretty solid imo. It would only minorly benefit passive scouts which I dont care much for. 

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Yes, please buff the T71 and 13 90 more.

I cant tell if this is sarcastic or not, but if they would get anything, it would be minor. The T71 is a pretty good scout imo. Im not saying buff every scout tank, only the ones that constantly under-preform. 

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I cant tell if this is sarcastic or not, but if they would get anything, it would be minor. The T71 is a pretty good scout imo. Im not saying buff every scout tank, only the ones that constantly under-preform.

Half and half.

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Just allow scouts to spot through bushes.

 

That turns them from low HP liabilities that can be replaced by high tier mediums into valuable vision assets.

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Or just start treating them like light combat tanks instead of scouts, fuck scout MM.

 

But I don't think a scout tank buff would break up the stagnated gameplay that TDs cause. Neither will the impending "nerf".

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Okay thanks for the formatting issue. As to your points now.

- "The mobility of scouts really doesn't mean anything" That is never true. A Luchs can do tons of things a Batchat cant do (Batchat and Luchs are my two favs atm so Im using them) its amazing turning capability can make it crest a hill and turn back down almost instantly. The more mobility the better. I do see where you are coming from though.

 

 

That's nice when you have a ridge to peek on, but you don't always and it might not be close enough to actually light things.

 

Scouts have enough agility to do that now, barring the terrible comedy scout panther and A20 which shouldn't be a scout MM tank anyway and only still is because SerB hates you and wants you to suffer.

 

Adding more agilty to them wouldn't allow them to dodge shots over open ground.

 

 

What would is reducing the accuracy of TDs to partially undo the 8.6 accuracy change for them and poke out their eyes a bit (~350 max view range for top tier closed TDs, a little more for open top ones but not comedy values like 420, maybe 360-370 for the Waifu).

 

That would open up scout gameplay more because TDs suddenly can't reliably hit an evasive target as well, and TD's hiding in bushes need other tanks for vision, so "get the biggest gun and hide in a bush" is no longer the king of all stratz.

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Just allow scouts to spot through bushes.

 

That turns them from low HP liabilities that can be replaced by high tier mediums into valuable vision assets.

 

Brilliant. Instead of negating the TD camo bonus (which probably will have a ton of unforeseen consequences - see sprem/accuracy buffs/etc) if we have scouts with a unique role (other than speed and size) then they become needed again.

 

Also fix scout MM; it's terrible platooning with them for most people  as you either get : fail platoon / miss out on those easy tier games / have too many scouts / etc

 

Also fix spotting xp: if I put the initial lights on the enemy, my tomato team-mates fire some HE into them, the other team fires back (thus lighting themselves), a massive brawl could ensue and you get jack for xp. [eg NW corner on the NW map]. There's only a few maps with forward bushes that reward aggressive passive spotting. Maybe that's the issue, map design. There's way too many maps where the only cover is in the bases: promotes camping.

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Adding more agilty to them wouldn't allow them to dodge shots over open ground.

 

Memories of games from a year ago: T-50-2 driving circles around our team for 5 minutes while the other team destroys us. Usually I get a tracking shot in from halfway across the board only to get zero credit as someone else gets the damage credit. If this is supposed to be a semi-historical game then let's have scouts have buffs to their passive spotting.

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Right, but scouts' passive spotting is as good as the engine allows.

 

The trouble is that so is everyone else's.

 

The way to make scouts better at passive spotting is to make everyone else worse at it.

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Right, but scouts' passive spotting is as good as the engine allows.

 

The trouble is that so is everyone else's.

 

The way to make scouts better at passive spotting is to make everyone else worse at it.

 

Not exactly.

 

You could easily set scouts' view ranges to something on the order of 500m or more.  Of course, they wouldn't actually be able to see past 445 because of the spotting mechanics, but it would allow them to break through bush camo far more than they currently do.  Scouts already spot stuff that moves and shoots, but so does everyone else.  If you give them over-maximum view range, they can actually see bush campers that others can't, and it's simpler mechanically than making scouts "immune" to bushes.

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That's nice when you have a ridge to peek on, but you don't always and it might not be close enough to actually light things.

 

Scouts have enough agility to do that now, barring the terrible comedy scout panther and A20 which shouldn't be a scout MM tank anyway and only still is because SerB hates you and wants you to suffer.

 

Adding more agilty to them wouldn't allow them to dodge shots over open ground.

 

 

What would is reducing the accuracy of TDs to partially undo the 8.6 accuracy change for them and poke out their eyes a bit (~350 max view range for top tier closed TDs, a little more for open top ones but not comedy values like 420, maybe 360-370 for the Waifu).

 

That would open up scout gameplay more because TDs suddenly can't reliably hit an evasive target as well, and TD's hiding in bushes need other tanks for vision, so "get the biggest gun and hide in a bush" is no longer the king of all stratz.

You all bring up great points, but I want to address this. Adding maneuverability would help scouts greatly. Increased turning speeds would enhance them tenfold. You may not have ridges, but you have corners you could peek quickly out of, you can zig-zag with much more effect, you can do many things with improved agility. Scouts would be able to dodge shots better IF they zig-zaged better. Hence increase agility.  As for nerfing view range and camo, sure why not. 

 

Just allow scouts to spot through bushes.

 

That turns them from low HP liabilities that can be replaced by high tier mediums into valuable vision assets.

Also, great idea. I was thinking about this before at one point. Although scouts may be able to abuse this power. In some ways it may make them too powerful. It would enhance Suiscouting, as you could run up the middle and light even more of their team due to being able to see through bushes. 

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If you give them over-maximum view range, they can actually see bush campers that others can't, and it's simpler mechanically than making scouts "immune" to bushes.

Seeing further away with spotted tanks being visible for longer if light scout spots them. This would also make light tanks direct counters to players who sit outside the spotting circle but are still inside the viewrange square. Light tanks could also receive damage buff so that they could detrack other tanks with one shot instead of being forced to shoot 2+ times. Also scout tanks could get buffs to suspension hp. With the physics it is kinda hard at times to drive fast when the small undulations on the surface can cause you to get detracked.

No matter what is done to scouts I think it is hard to make them influental spotters as long as we have 6th sense. But then again no one likes being shot by invisible tanks. Plus I think 6ht sense is actually useful learning tool for spotting. If you pay attention to when the light bulb goes off it is possible to understand what caused it. Maybe just remove 6th sense from TDs?

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Constantly brought up and definitely needs attention. I fear what WG will do to scouts.

 

Other possible suggestions:

- Increase spread of view ranges between classes

- Six sense exclusive to scouts or varying effectiveness of six sense based upon class/tank

- Increase view range gradually as a scout stays still to a special maximum.

- The increase in draw distance by going from a square to a circle may buff scouts.

- Buff scout tank camo

- Change scout MM (added)

- Change mechanics so there is an inverse relationship between camo and view range for all tanks except scouts and certain tanks (E.g. american tanks with copulas would get a view-range buff but no decrease in camo).

 

I prefer the last, it just makes more sense and is fair, in that giving up one attribute (camo or view-range) gives more of the other.

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If WOT reduces scout MM to a max of 3 tiers, that would provide a huge boon to lower level scouts.  I would even suggest doing away with scouting MM all together & giving light tanks +/-2. 

 

Also, give me my T-50-2 back.

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You seem to have forgotten one thing. Arty are not the only ones who rely on scouting. TD's rely heavily on scouts so they themselves don't have to be exposed. So this idea, even if I agree with it,doesn't exactly nerf the TD's as much as you think

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I'd really like to see some of the mechanics around XP for scouting damage changed. Make it so light tanks don't have their spotting XP shared with anyone else. I find it incredibly frustrating when you do a good scouting job and light up a bunch of stuff and get bugger all XP from it. Especially on smaller maps where if you actually have more than one solid scout you end up overlapping a ton.

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